LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22077 posts, RR: 51 Posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21381 times:
I guess to help capture a niche of extremely price sensitive travelers which carriers like Spirit are successfully wooing, Delta Airlines announce it will offer what it calls a “Basic Economy” fare which will not allow any seat selection(even if you are an elite flyer), changes or refunds.
According to Delta - the new Basic Economy fare is “ideal for travelers who seek the lowest fare option, do not intend to make changes and do not consider seat choice an important part of their travel experience.”
This new class of fares will initially be available from Detroit to Florida markets.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16840 posts, RR: 57 Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21340 times:
Basically a way of depressing the lowest fare that appears on OTA sites.
nycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 518 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21305 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Basically a way of depressing the lowest fare that appears on OTA sites.
And a smart idea, as such...
At least until I start my own OTA site that equalizes for experience and features and space
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21136 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): “ideal for travelers who seek the lowest fare option, do not intend to make changes and do not consider seat choice an important part of their travel experience.”
Is it just me, or...... I dunno... Something about the last part of that just sounds "wrong". I can imagine any number of other things being substituted for "seat choice", can't YOU??
Jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1125 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21110 times:
Quoting CNBC Article (Thread starter): For a weeklong trip from Detroit to Orlando in May, the Basic Economy roundtrip airfare offered to me on their website was $257.60, only $12 lower than a 'regular' economy fare of $269.60. A similar booking to Tampa yielded a basic fare of $229.60, $19 cheaper than the next highest fare.
Ooh a whole $19, they sure are gonna give Spirit a run for their money
jporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21108 times:
It will be interesting to see how popular this is, and based on it, which and how many routes it is expanded to. I'd like to see DL do this on very popular routes such as ATL-LAX. It will eb interesting to see how they compete with WN in Atlanta with this fare class if they expand it to more routes. You basically have complete opposites in that case: choose whatever seat you want and no change fees vs. you cannot choose your seat or change your ticket.
SSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 436 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21106 times:
Quoting nycdave (Reply 2): At least until I start my own OTA site that equalizes for experience and features and space
Granted I haven't poked around much recently, but seriously-- why don't sites offer checkboxes for the number of bags, etc?
usairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3100 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21079 times:
Uhhh, outside of not selecting a seat how is this different than their current deep discounted economy fares?
Jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1125 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21008 times:
Quoting usairways85 (Reply 7): Uhhh, outside of not selecting a seat how is this different than their current deep discounted economy fares?
You can't change the ticket even paying the $150 fee plus price changes. Besides they are only taking a very small amount off like $12 or $19.
usflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1792 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 21005 times:
I see this as a DL test for charging for advanced seat selection on discount fares like many European and Asian carriers do...
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1499 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 20702 times:
I'm surprised they are still going to offer miles. Taking those away would seem like a logical next step.
jetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2021 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 20556 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Well no seat selection means I'm going to be on higher than the bottom fares for once . Gotta have that window seat!
Blue
Professor Foltz: You push down on that yolk, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yolk, the houses get bigger.
OB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2967 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19391 times:
Will customers still be able to choose their seats at check-in? At Spirit, there's an additional fee for seat selection if checking in with an agent (on top of the $5 boarding pass fee per customer), but it's free if you use the kiosk.
Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 8): You can't change the ticket even paying the $150 fee plus price changes. Besides they are only taking a very small amount off like $12 or $19.
For just $20, I don't know if this loss in flexibility will be worth it. Even on their penny fares, Spirit still allows changes, even if the change fee ($100 online, $125 at the airport) would exceed the value of the ticket.
Quoting FL787 (Reply 10): I'm surprised they are still going to offer miles. Taking those away would seem like a logical next step.
Not as long as Spirit still offers full mileage credit on their lowest fares.
bomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 364 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19391 times:
Quoting FL787 (Reply 10): I'm surprised they are still going to offer miles. Taking those away would seem like a logical next step.
If this were Facebook I would have "liked" this comment. Totally True!!
planeguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1067 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 18072 times:
I get the revenue perk if pax don't use the ticket since changes are not allowed. However, the seat thing could be interesting. I can just picture pax choosing this less expensive option and then asking at check in, at the gate, etc for seat changes. Is there anything planned that says "no seat changes"?
nwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3324 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 17977 times:
Quoting planeguy727 (Reply 14): I can just picture pax choosing this less expensive option and then asking at check in, at the gate, etc for seat changes. Is there anything planned that says "no seat changes"?
... And when the agents say no, trying again with the F/A's once in the cabin...
Should be a lot of fun...
P.S. I believe the boarding pass will be marked, but does anyone really think that will stop some people from trying?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
crosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17453 times:
I think that this is a great idea but as someone already said, I'm very surprised that they will still allow accrual of miles AND upgrades; it's odd that they won't allow seat selection, even for Elites, but will still allow them to upgrade. I personally think that if DL wants to compete with the likes of NK of G4, then having these "basis" fares be only a few dollars cheaper than the regular discounted fares won't make much difference. In my opinion, they should "seriously" lower the prices on these basis fares (i.e. instead of $200 for a traditional fare, make the basis fare more like $100) and take everything away - not only ability to make changes and reserve seats, but also mileage accrual, ability to upgrade, ability to check in with an agent, free beverages, etc. And also, they should increase the checked bag fees on these particular fares (and possibly charge for carry-ons). By doing this, this would allow them to successfully offer truly "dirt cheap" fares.
Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if AA, US, and UA start offering something like this too. It's quite a logical step.
Alnicocunife From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 17129 times:
Time will tell if this fare scheme will ever work. For every action there is an equal and opposite (knee jerk) reaction. Testing the fare structure between two markets makes sense. Selling the tickets with no seat selection is a little like getting plane tickets or hotel rooms from Priceline or Hotwire except you know you will be flying on Delta. With Priceline and Hotwire you get a "cheap" ticket/room but you are not sure what or whom it is until you non-refundable payment is made. Today's market starts out as PRICE is everything................. but does not always ends up that way.
DLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16846 times:
Quoting planeguy727 (Reply 14): I can just picture pax choosing this less expensive option and then asking at check in, at the gate, etc for seat changes. Is there anything planned that says "no seat changes"?
Quoting nwaesc (Reply 15): ... And when the agents say no, trying again with the F/A's once in the cabin...
...And melting down in the aisle cause she is traveling alone with 3 kids under the age of 6.
xdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 532 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16845 times:
DL overbooks most of their flights already. Even if you try to find a seat selection you cant
TomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16813 times:
So after DL spent the last few years (since the NW/DL merger) trying to market themselves as a more up-market carrier, they introduce this?
Believe it or not, there is a certain brand recognition within the transport industry. A preception of quality and/or value with a major brand. If the customer feels that they did not get their moneys worth, they will surely question the wisdom of going with a brand like DL, and choose a lower cost option which will offer the same thing.
In other words, if they feel that they got burned, what would make them want to conduct repeat business?
This seems like a rather short sighted idea, and inconsistent with the direction that DL has been trying to portray.
ORDJOE From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 584 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16371 times:
Quoting FL787 (Reply 10): I'm surprised they are still going to offer miles. Taking those away would seem like a logical next step
Considering their miles are worthless as it is (google the term skypeso and you will see) the company might figure it looks like they are tossing these bottom feeders a bone.
xdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 532 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16346 times:
It is the result of a powerpoint presentation from some analyst... with figures like ... we can improve
"spoilage" by 23% or something like that. (spoilage) is the seats an airline considers unsold to a
paying customer at departure time.
DL has one of the highest LF in the industry, and have added seats to many airplanes. The objective
is to push the LF to the highest possible figure systemwide.
I agree this is inconsistent with the brand loyalty they are preaching to the "precious metals", but
they think that if they can be one thing to you in seat 3A and something else to Rita in 57K it is a
win win.
Like you observe many of the true road warriors have gone to WN...
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2043 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16158 times:
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 11): Well no seat selection means I'm going to be on higher than the bottom fares for once . Gotta have that window seat!
Blue
Twice in the last six months, I've reserved window seats near the front of the aircraft on DL flights, but the day before departure, their computer system has moved me against my wishes to middle seats at the back. Then, DL's computer system refused to allow me to change seats when I tried to check in.
In both cases I was able to work with DL reservations to get window seats assigned to me. However, I know I was very lucky to find res agents who were willing to assist me (it probably also helped that I tried to be extra-nice to them).
In my mind, there is no point paying extra to choose the seat you want on a DL flight, when there is a good chance their computer system will just take your seat assignment and give it to someone else.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6137 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16086 times:
Quoting jporterfi (Reply 5): It will be interesting to see how popular this is
People will always buy the lowest fare. No question of popularity.
25 757gb: As a matter of fact there is. The rules clearly state that the seat will be assigned at check in, and that once assigned it cannot be changed. Regard
26 Coronado: Talking about Load Factors. News Release posted today on the Delta web site states a 4.4 point improvement in load factors during March. http://news.d
27 BlueJuice: The race to the bottom continues. I can predict that people will moan and complain about this yet continue to book these tickets. Then there will be t
28 mcogator: I think more than likely they aren't taking anything off, they are just increasing L,U,T fares by $12-$19.
29 KingFriday013: What's weird is that I can't replicate this, and I really had to dig around to find any mention of it on Delta.com. Tried the dates from the screensho
30 nycdave: Some of them do let you check a box to say "i want to see the price, with one checked back, or with two checked bags", but I'm wondering if there's a
31 Superfly: So in other words, Delta is finally offering fares that reflect the low-quality service they've been offering for years? I was thinking the same. I fe
32 flyabr: Let me guess, when the flight is oversold...the folks that paid for the super duper low fare class ticket are the first to get kicked off the flight!
33 Highflier92660: "...and do not consider seat choice an important part of their travel experience." Oh sure, I don't consider squeezing my 6' 4" swimmer's frame in the
34 RKSofACinUSA: We tried this years ago at Air Canada when we launched our basic "Tango" fares. On our website we offered 'opt out' options. Take $5 off your fare for
35 ikramerica: Good for college kids who know exactly when they must travel, travel alone, etc. not family friendly though.
36 PHX787: My question about this is: How would this work on an overbooked flight?
37 OB1504: I would assume that when the system automatically assigns seats, it would try to seat customers together if they're traveling on the same reservation
38 BOACCunard: Notwithstanding this particular fare experiment, what extra costs are attached on DL that aren't on other carriers?
39 Superfly: Drinks, luggage and sometimes meals. Also if you need to change your flights, their penalties are higher compared to non-US carriers. I've never had
40 peanuts: Wrong. Ask yourself: what is a carriers primary goal with a fixed number of seats on an airplane? To fill them 100% with the most revenue possible. D
41 FURUREFA: It's only available in select markets (mostly Florida).
42 ContnlEliteCMH: On flights that aren't full, why involve the F/A? I see an empty seat, and I move to it. Seems pretty simple to me. Heck, I've actually done it.
43 N766UA: If you value your legs, I'd bet 20 bucks off a flight is enough to woo some people over. The ONLY thing Spirit has going for it is airfare.
44 FlyASAGuy2005: Many times i've priced tickets for friends on DL.com sometimes a month out and there will only be about 10-20 seats left for pre-selection but lookin
45 sccutler: AA has effectively done away with pre-selection of seats for all but the bad-ass mega-milers. I bought three seats just shy of two months out, and th
46 TomFoolery: Disagree. Some buy based on the product that they need- flex conditions come at a price. How do you account for people buying full Y fares, or even F
47 usdcaguy: This is "E" class, the lowest of DL's inventory buckets, when it is actually available to book. One thing people are forgetting is that these fares a
48 nwaesc: Same here. My point was, there will be people traveling together that will see the "no seat changes," and buy anyway, thinking they game the system.
49 TomFoolery: Not sure about DL going head-to-head with Greyhound, but more like Spirit and Southwest (DTW being a Spirit base as well). I am curious why DL is inc
50 airbazar: Ahahah, I can see this maybe working in business routes but in leisure routes like FL, no way. Imagine a family with small kids shows up and all ther
51 FlyASAGuy2005: No one EVER has to give up their paid assigned seat for a family..ever. Only time you absolutly have to move if the situation eve arises is for a dis
52 usdcaguy: I agree. If you can afford the luxury of having 2 kids, you can afford the luxury of a ticket that allows seat assignments.
53 OB1504: No, the system doesn't bump people from pre-assigned seats (if it did, boarding would be a nightmare with seat duplicates everywhere). If there aren'
54 RWA380: If you need flexibility for last minute changes and cancellations you are paying for full fare, whatever cabin your in, your paying the premium price
55 nwaesc: +1 My pity is reserved for the agents & F/A's that will have to deal with them...
56 burnsie28: I'm willing to bet that most consumers look at just the price and not the details, I don't know if thats true or not, but it would seem when doing a
57 tugger: OK, so I show up at the airport for my "random" seating with my 7 and 8 year old daughters. OK fine, seat them in the middle of two strangers, I don'
58 FlyASAGuy2005: Again, that's a risk the passenger is taking buy buying this fare class when the rules are clearly stated but the 'general' policy is to seat the und
59 woodsboy: I fully agree that if you buy one of these "no advance seat selection" fares you should also be barred from throwing a head-fit once on board because
60 TravelGuy: I think it is worth keeping in mind that most flight searches/filters online (as well as offline via travel agents or tour operators) are not yet abl
61 usdcaguy: I don't give a rat's a** if people don't know any better. The idea of charging less for no seat assignment and no changes rocks. I'll pay $220 from D
62 ikramerica: DL Should allow any pax to pay the up charge to he next lowest fare bucket sold for that flight. In other words this fare becomes "convertible" to th
63 ROSWELL41: I guess Spirit is industry leading, so much so that Delta is copying.
64 alitalia744: At the end of the day, if consumers want lower airfare, they'll have to deal with the rules/regulations and amenities the fare class awards. If those
65 FlyASAGuy2005: I don't know what to say when we live in a world were people bitch about paying $300 r/t all in for the likes of JFK-LAX.
66 B727FA: What if there are no seats left at the "bucket" of fares? And when, ever, has a "stern warning" EVER stopped a person from trying to game the system?
67 brilondon: For a family of four, it adds up. $152 for a return trip to Florida is savings that some people find attractive.
68 FlyASAGuy2005: I think we're missing the whole point here. In reality, DL could care less what happens on day of departure; especially at the gate (although by the
69 ikramerica: You missed my point. All these fares are convertible to the next lowest fare, not the next available bucket. That's what convertible means. it doesn'
70 Jerseyguy: Its $19 difference total for a return (roundtrip) ticket to Florida not each way ($76 for a family of 4).
71 B727FA: @ASA, I think you're right. Which, in reality, makes the "rule" not a "rule" and then the FA's get to deal with it. (LOL!) @IKR, I think I see your po
72 FlyASAGuy2005: Which in the end makes the whole thign suck for front-line employees, like nwaesc said.
73 at: true. one of my boss' favorite quotes is that "rules are there to serve as guidelines, not scripts". There is always some degree of flexibility with
74 Coronado: I think they should publish the standard fare and then have a box? do you want to save a bit of money? then prompt the client to check off boxes ackno
75 FlyASAGuy2005: We can also look at this from another angle. I really really hate to use the word "predatory" but it's sort of like Payday loan companies or casinos.
76 rduddji: It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Can't blame DL for adding another revenue stream. Push those record LFs even higher... Only the ones
77 FlyASAGuy2005: I call bull on that tired moniker over and over and over. I read somewhere the other day that even compared to the combined CO/UA, DL carried the mos
78 Jerseyguy: So thats why there chasing the price-sensitive crowd??[Edited 2012-04-07 21:56:36]
79 FlyASAGuy2005: The point, Jersyguy, was that the notion that people are supposedly flocking to WN is false. DL managed to carry mor pax than any carrier WITH bag fe
80 kgaiflyer: Sounds like the olde-timey Air Canada "Tango" fares. As I remember with Tango fares, you can elect to not receive frequent flyer miles and get an eve
81 delta2ual: I find your comment not only non-productive to the conversation, but an insult to all the hard-working people at DL (and all US carriers for that mat
82 rduddji: Why not chase ALL crowds? Without having to re-brand part of your airline as Song or Ted, or whatever... DL (and others too) already has record load
83 FlyASAGuy2005: or we may very well never see it implemented system-wide but only in "select" markets or city pairs (heavy LCC competition).
84 RP TPA: I too pity the Delta agents who will have to deal with this. I also work for Air Canada, and had plenty of experience with customers who bought those
85 B727FA: It's the same thing the Allegiant does. Sure the fare is cheap, but you get the ticket and that's it. You buy a seat assignment...blah, blah, blah. If
86 ikramerica: In these abusive situations, airline agents need a dump button that, after politely stating "im sorry i can not help you further with this issue. Hav
87 TravelGuy: Probably quite true. The airline's management's perspective would be "we'll just let the airport staff deal with it". I presume most people would und
88 FlyASAGuy2005: You put it much less words and more eloquently than I could : EXACTLY my point. At the end of the day it's game. The customer will no doubt win but s
89 GSPSPOT: Sums it all up nicely. I'd rather pay a few dollars more for a still-reasonable fare on DL and never have to worry about all the niggling little thin
90 FlyASAGuy2005: You're missing the ball too. Their shitting on both and there's nothing worng ith that.
91 GSPSPOT: Organizations (airlines included) should have a single, unified marketing focus and message to customers IMO.[Edited 2012-04-10 04:59:07][Edited 2012
92 FlyASAGuy2005: What is your definition of a "full service" carrier
93 GSPSPOT: One that doesn't market itself as a low-fare, no-frills airline; one that caters to mainly business travelers, etc.
94 FlyASAGuy2005: Okay. So how many business travelers do you know need 3000+ seats each way from one hub alone to Orlando, FL. The point is that to think a full servi
95 delta2ual: I don't think DL is advertising itself as a "low-fare, no-frills airline". They are offering a different fare type in select leisure markets which ma
96 TravelGuy: The airline ticket sales market has changed enormously (and will continue to change going forward into perpetuity) in the last decade plus to such a
97 TVNWZ: It was called Midwest Express in the day. Didn't end well.
98 brilondon: Airline marketing is not that easy to pigeon hole people into a singular focus. The people who do the marketing have seen that they could attract ano
99 BDL757: Exactly. Basically what is happening is Medallions and HVC's who generally book travel somewhat last minute and pay more for it are getting stuck wit
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