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Another Mahan Air Iran Tyre Explosion  
User currently offlinehaveasafeflight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5871 times:

In what is becoming an increasingly common occurrence, another Iranian aircraft has been involved in an incident caused by a tyre failure/explosion:

http://pda.trend.az/en/2011231.html

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8145 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5626 times:

A burst tyre on touchdown is hardly cause for concern. Iran is a massive country, number 17 by area and 18 by population in the world, with hundreds of flights operating daily.

Just look at the FIS online for the smaller Tehran airport, Mehrabad, to get an inkling.
http://213.207.200.11/daily.asp

So if a couple of flights have a tyre burst in a couple of days, it's pretty much business as usual.

Enjoy browsing that board btw. You will also note, if you click soon, the 20h00 departure to Ahwaz by 707 - nice. Wish all online FIS showed aircraft type.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinehaveasafeflight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 1):
A burst tyre on touchdown is hardly cause for concern. Iran is a massive country, number 17 by area and 18 by population in the world, with hundreds of flights operating daily.

I am aware of Iran's geographical size and the size of it's population - however that's not the issue here. The issue is that the number of instances of exploding tyres on Iranian aircraft appears to be relatively high, and it is cause for concern when it's happening as often as this.

Iran Air Isfahan Burst Tyre On Landing - 747SP? (by haveasafeflight Mar 4 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Counting the incidents in the link above this is the THIRD such case of exploding tyres suffered by an Iranian airline in the last 6 WEEKS. Very concerning.


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5403 times:

Who's supplying the tires/doing the retreads on their Airbus' tires?


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlinehaveasafeflight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 3):
Who's supplying the tires/doing the retreads on their Airbus' tires?

That's a great question - I honestly don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure it's not the likes of Dunlop and Bridgestone. Time for Mahan Air and Iran Air to start looking for new sources?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5311 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 1):

A burst tyre on touchdown is hardly cause for concern.

It should not be....Unless the reason for the same points out to bad assembly due to quality reasons.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinehaveasafeflight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5032 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
It should not be....Unless the reason for the same points out to bad assembly due to quality reasons.

Unfortunately, Iran's aviation regulator, the Civil Aviation Organization (CAO) has yet to launch any sort of inquiry to find out why this is happening. But then we can't expect too much from the CAO, when they don't even bother with investigating the cause of accidents like the Iran Air Boeing 727 crash which claimed 77 lives last year.

In the history of modern aviation I know of no other serious incident in which an aviation regulator has been as lazy and ignorant as the Iran Civil Aviation Organization has been with their NON-INVESTIGATION of the crash of Iran Air Flight 277. Interestingly, President Ahmadinejad personally ordered an investigation to be carried out on this incident, so it's amazing that the CAO has been able to get away with ignoring it this long.

I find it truly amazing that ICAO continues to tolerate the CAO's appalling standards.


User currently onlineIR800 From Iran, joined May 2009, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 3):
Who's supplying the tires/doing the retreads on their Airbus' tires?
Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 4):
That's a great question - I honestly don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure it's not the likes of Dunlop and Bridgestone.

Why not?
Take a look at this photo. It shows EP-IBZ (Iran Air A300) tires which exploded about 8 months ago at THR:

(Photo by Majid Hasankhani)

Absolutely a Bridgestone!

[Edited 2012-04-07 04:16:52]

User currently offlinedandaire From UK - Wales, joined Jul 2008, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4803 times:

Quoting IR800 (Reply 7):
Absolutely a Bridgestone!

Looking at that tyre, it has been retreaded by Thomson Belgium which I think is owned by Bridgestone so I don't think its a quality problem. Looking at the size of that flatspot it looks more like an anti-skid problem?  



Old age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill.
User currently offlinehaveasafeflight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4734 times:

Quoting IR800 (Reply 7):
Why not?

You've misunderstood my point. As a result of sanctions, companies such as Dunlop and Bridgestone are prevented from working directly with Iranian airlines such as Iran Air. That's what I said. Are you suggesting that they are working directly together? That doesn't mean that they aren't sourcing tyres and re-tread services through other companies however to sidestep the sanctions, but that does mean that they won't receive the same after sales supports that say American Airlines or British Airways would.


Quoting dandaire (Reply 8):
Looking at the size of that flatspot it looks more like an anti-skid problem?

That's an interesting observation for that particular case, but what about all the other cases of tyres exploding on Mahan Air and Iran Air aircraft over the last few months?


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4702 times:

I wonder how runway conditions are in Iran...


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently onlineIR800 From Iran, joined May 2009, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 9):

Thanks for clarifying.
I don't have much information about that. What kind of supports or services do airlines receive from the provider?


User currently offlinehaveasafeflight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

Quoting IR800 (Reply 11):
What kind of supports or services do airlines receive from the provider?

As it's the OEM, they guarantee the quality of their parts and overhaul/refurb services, and in many cases provide express replacements should a defect exist with one of their products. If on the other hand a reseller is being used as a front to bypass sanctions, they simply can't offer the same kind of support.

Also if you buy directly from the OEM, you know you are getting the real McCoy - I couldn't say the same about the integrity of the products and practices of some of the shady resellers out there.

For there to have been this many cases of tyre failures in a relatively short period of time, there has got to be a quality issue somewhere at play.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

Tire explosions happen but if they are frequent they are a sign of poor maintenance. There are many causes but poor tires and tire inspections cause blow outs. If mahan is not doing a good job of the daily tire inspection and looking for cuts or flat spots that exceed limits.

Other problems are failing anti skid or low quality retreads or exceeding recommended cycles.

In general unscheduled tire replacements are normal but blow outs are not.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinesolarflyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 6):
. But then we can't expect too much from the CAO, when they don't even bother with investigating the cause of accidents like the Iran Air Boeing 727 crash which claimed 77 lives last year.

That is truly appalling. What is the CAO working on if they aren't investigating crashes?


Is it possible the pilots are landing too hard or the planes are landing overweight? The flat spots on the picture dont look like an ordinary tire blowout though I am not an expert. Seems like there are multiple points of failure from tires, to inspections to CAO enforcement. Not very impressive.


User currently offlinea300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4495 times:
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Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 14):
That is truly appalling. What is the CAO working on if they aren't investigating crashes?

The crashes are investigated, though the results are not often public. The Caspian Tu-154M crash was investigated, with the assistance of the Russian experts. The probable cause was an engine disk failure. Recommendations were made to the Russian oversight authorities. The authority of Iranian carriers flying the Tu-154s was revoked, effective early 2010 (late 1389 AP).

The ability of Iranian CAO to investigate crashes involving American and Western European types is greatly hampered by (mostly) unilateral American sanctions. Boeing and the NTSB are not allowed to be involved as far as I can tell. The Swedish air investigation board had a similar problem when they were investigation an uncontained engine failure of an Iran Air A300 that occurred in Stockholm Arlanda.

That the Iranian CAO is not functioning properly is not in dispute. The reasons are multiple and not all are immediately fixable. I fully expect for the matters to get worse due to the recent political posturings.


Does anyone know whether the national investigative authorities are required to file a copy of their findings with ICAO in Montreal?



Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 1):
Just look at the FIS online for the smaller Tehran airport, Mehrabad, to get an inkling.
http://213.207.200.11/daily.asp

is this airport really smaller in terms of passengers? amazying how many flights are leaving in the ealry morning hours!



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinea300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4391 times:
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Quoting Avianca (Reply 16):
is this airport really smaller in terms of passengers? amazying how many flights are leaving in the ealry morning hours!

Mehrabad (THR) is by far the busiest airport in Iran in terms of aircraft movements. I recall the next busiest one is Mashhad (MHD). The greater Tehran's IKA is a distant third I believe, as the latter is serving international flights only.

Quoting a300 (Reply 15):
The authority of Iranian carriers flying the Tu-154s was revoked, effective early 2010 (late 1389 AP).

I should correct myself: the correct date for grounding all Iranian Tu-154s was 20FEB2011 (01 Esfand 1389 AP).



Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

Quoting dandaire (Reply 8):
Looking at the size of that flatspot it looks more like an anti-skid problem?  

Looking at the pic....It does look like an Antiskid malfunction locking the wheel momentarily.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14079 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

Quoting IR800 (Reply 7):
Why not?
Take a look at this photo. It shows EP-IBZ (Iran Air A300) tires which exploded about 8 months ago at THR:
Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 14):
Is it possible the pilots are landing too hard or the planes are landing overweight? The flat spots on the picture dont look like an ordinary tire blowout though I am not an expert. Seems like there are multiple points of failure from tires, to inspections to CAO enforcement. Not very impressive.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Quoting dandaire (Reply 8):
Looking at the size of that flatspot it looks more like an anti-skid problem?

Looking at the pic....It does look like an Antiskid malfunction locking the wheel momentarily.

I fully agree. I´ve seen such damage before. It was most likely caused by a locked brake dure to an antiskid malfunction.

Jan


User currently offlinehaveasafeflight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4181 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
I fully agree. I´ve seen such damage before. It was most likely caused by a locked brake dure to an antiskid malfunction.

Lets not forget, the picture kindly supplied by IR800 refers to an incident from 8 months ago:

Quoting IR800 (Reply 7):
Take a look at this photo. It shows EP-IBZ (Iran Air A300) tires which exploded about 8 months ago at THR:

Since then there have been multiple cases (at least 6 that I can think of) of tyre explosions occurring on Mahan Air and Iran Air aircraft. I'm therefore more inclined at this stage to think this is an issue with the tyres themselves, rather than anti skid or other items.

I'm not certain anyone can say what the cause is for sure at this stage. Unfortunately I really don't think the Iranian aviation regulator, the CAO, is going to make any announcements with regards to this ongoing ongoing problem anytime soon if at all, so I guess all we can do is speculate. As usual they will probably wait for people to lose their lives before they consider doing something about it, and even then I wouldn't hold my breath.

Quoting a300 (Reply 15):
though the results are not often public.

Why not? Surely the loved ones and friends of the 77 people who lost their lives in the Iran Air Boeing 727 crash last year have a right to know what caused the accident? Just as all air passengers traveling in Iran have a right to know.

Quoting a300 (Reply 15):

The ability of Iranian CAO to investigate crashes involving American and Western European types is greatly hampered by (mostly) unilateral American sanctions. Boeing and the NTSB are not allowed to be involved as far as I can tell.

If the CAO is deficient in it's ability (for whatever reason) to investigate crashes to a point of identification of the cause(s), then they really shouldn't be approving those aircraft types for operation. Period. You've surely got to question the ethics of an aviation regulator that continues to approve the operations of aircraft types that it is unable to competently investigate in the event of a serious accident. If the CAO can't properly investigate the crashes of certain aircraft types, what effective actions can they possibly take to prevent the cause(s) from reoccurring? If they are genuinely incapable of conducting investigations into crashes involving Western aircraft then they are simply making a fool out of people by pretending to be able to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_277#cite_note-FG351690-11

"Iran ordered an inquiry into the crash.[14] A day after the accident, searchers at the location had obtained both the flight's cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder.[12] Iran's Transport Ministry stated that the investigation will comprise several working groups which will include specialists in various areas, including aircraft structure, engine parameter recordings and pilot operations. The investigation will be overseen by the Iran Civil Aviation Organization.[7] The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were taken to Tehran for analysis.[12]"

In the Aljazeera video link posted on youtube below, it states clearly that the Boeing 727 pilots reported a "Technical Failure" and the aircraft crashed soon thereafter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgHx7rGsht8

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/159994.html

So what's the point in calling for an investigation into the crash if the regulator (CAO) does nothing about it and hides away from it's responsibilities? If anyone has information to the contrary with regards to the CAO, i.e. evidence showing that they have actually DONE SOMETHING to try and identify the cause of the accident then please share. I however know of no other case like this anywhere in the world where an aviation regulator has shown such little interest and utter disregard for the value of human life. Disgraceful.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 20):

Since then there have been multiple cases (at least 6 that I can think of) of tyre explosions occurring on Mahan Air and Iran Air aircraft. I'm therefore more inclined at this stage to think this is an issue with the tyres themselves, rather than anti skid or other items.

I'm not certain anyone can say what the cause is for sure at this stage. Unfortunately I really don't think the Iranian aviation regulator, the CAO, is going to make any announcements with regards to this ongoing ongoing problem anytime soon if at all, so I guess all we can do is speculate. As usual they will probably wait for people to lose their lives before they consider doing something about it, and even then I wouldn't hold my breath.

FOD is the number one reason for tire cuts and tread separations, so it could be a case of FOD control at airports. Excessive tire wear is caused by skidding and anti-skid not functioning properly. Combine the two and you have tire tread separation.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineglobalflyer777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3649 times:

Quoting haveasafeflight (Reply 6):

Unfortunately, Iran's aviation regulator, the Civil Aviation Organization (CAO) has yet to launch any sort of inquiry to find out why this is happening. But then we can't expect too much from the CAO, when they don't even bother with investigating the cause of accidents like the Iran Air Boeing 727 crash which claimed 77 lives last year.

If we contrast this with active precautions that have been taken by the Pakistani aviaton officials after just one case of a burst tire, it is clear to see that the Iranian CAO has serious problems functioning correctly under Reza Nakhjavani:

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012...scape-disasters-in-karachi-lahore/

http://tribune.com.pk/story/368645/s...ers-prompt-scrutiny-of-air-fleets/

732 Crash In Pakistan (by cabso1 Apr 20 2012 in Civil Aviation)

I can't even say that it seems that the CAO are waiting for a serious accident to occur before they actually do something about identifying the cause of these explosions, because as we have seen with the example of Iran Air Flight 277, the CAO has done nothing there either.


User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3635 times:

IMO, the problem is simple.

If they looked at the tyre issue the real issue is buying parts under the counter.

The "correct" solution would mean closing most/all of the Iranian fleet down.


User currently offlineglobalflyer777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3596 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 23):
the real issue is buying parts under the counter.

For sure that's an important issue as the quality/safety of those "under the counter" spares is "suspect" to say the least.

But what about the regulator, surely the CAO must be expected to live up to their responsibilities, especially since the Iranian Civil Aviation Organization is a member of ICAO?

You would imagine that the CAO would at least be obligated to investigate air accidents of the magnitude of Iran Air Flight 277?

Just look how differently (and professionally) the Pakistani aviation authorities are handling the recent air incidents in Pakistan, compared with the Iranian CAO. The bosses of the Iran CAO, especially Reza Nakhjavani should hang their heads in shame.


25 bennett123 : Perhaps the Iranian CAO does "know" why these things are happening. If "under the counter" parts are the problem, or a big part of it, then their hand
26 globalflyer777 : Surely the very purpose of having a regulator is for them to maintain oversight and prevent these very things from happening. Exactly of what use is
27 aeroblogger : Iran has no choice but to get under the counter parts - too many sanctions against them.. This means that problems due to under the counter parts can
28 Post contains images ljupco : Very interesting catch the entire table is like early '90 in Europe thanks for sharing....
29 globalflyer777 : So if as you say the CAO is actually turning a blind eye to unsuitable aircraft parts, how can they be considered to be a regulator if they aren't pr
30 aeroblogger : I have no clue what the ICAO thinks. My point is simply that the CAO has no better option - and the ICAO probably recognizes this. If any other regul
31 Roseflyer : Some civil aviation authorities are charted to promote aviation within a country in addition to ensure safety and compliance. That dual mandate for t
32 Post contains links and images haveasafeflight : Now that Reza Nakhjavani has been dismissed as the head of the Iran CAO, hopefully his successor can start to address some of the problems that were
33 rlwynn : You guys are way off base in the thinking it was an "anit skid" problem. Look at the tire. The carcass is busted. It was a blowout. When that happens
34 haveasafeflight : I'll second that.
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