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LH Wants To Order A380 And Some Additional  
User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4056 times:

While browsing through the net yesterday evening, i found some quite interesting things about Lufthansa:

The german news agency dpa has published (welt.de) an extract of an interview with the german news magazine " DER SPIEGEL " in advance. "DER SPIEGEL" ist regularly published on Monday.

In this interview LH-CEO J. Weber has illustrated that Lufthansa is still interested in the A380, mainly because of the low inferior costs per seat. Actually LH could already employ 5 to 6 of these airplanes today, he said.

According to dpa J. Weber wants to suggest to the supervisory board in the next session to order 15 A380. It´s not mentioned whether the 15 A380 will be orders or a mix of orders an options. Also there was nothing to read about the delivery dates of the new planes.

Furthermore, J. Weber wants to replace the remaining 8 B742 with 4 new B744. At the moment LH has got 10 B742 in service, 2 of these will be sold in winter because of the announced capacity shortening. The new B744 should be delivered from autumn 2002 (not mentioned when the last B742 is supposed to leave the fleet).

PLEASE NOTICE: The planes are not on order yet!!! CEO Weber is said to suggest the above figures to the supervisory board of LH in the next session.

Munich (MUC):
Finally J. Weber said, LH will keep on growing in Munich (MUC). LH wants to increase the importance of its 2nd hub furthermore. If the actual growth continues, MUC will need the 3rd runway already in 2006.

A few facts about MUC:
This year MUC will handle about 25 Mio pax. In 2001 MUC reaches 75% of LH´s FRA movements (not pax figures). Of course MUC has got smaller planes at the moment and less intercontinental flights, compared with FRA. But this will change in the future. 2003 the new (Star Alliance) Terminal 2 will be opened (with 24 jetbridge-gates at the terminal and more than 50 a/c positions on the tarmac) with an additional capacity of 20-25 Mio pax. A new satellite building with 24 more jetbridge-gates is already in the planning stage (additional capacity about 10 Mio pax). A further expansion with more satellite buildings and a 3rd terminal as well as a 3rd (and even a 4th runway) in Atlanta-layout (II II) is possible.


12 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (14 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3967 times:

well, this is somehow interesting and given that LH has recently announced cutbacks in its intercontinental network owing to the economic slowdown it seems unusual that LH comes up with some a380s at this time.
certainly, this economic downturn will not last forever...

additionally, last time i read Jürgen Weber comment on the a380 i´m sure he said they could the use the a380 on some routes in 2006/07, but perhaps they could already fill the big boy nowadays, dunno...

about the 744s: LH still has 5 744s on options and the last two 744s on order will be delivered this december. so if they were to take some additional 744s they will have to convert some options into firm orders.
given that Weber wants to propose these actions on the next board meeting, i think such a conversion shouldn´t pose much of a problem...


If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Yes, Daniel, it seems a little bit unusual that LH wants to place the order right now - after the decision to cut back some intercontinental routes. But the first possible delivery date will be 2006 or even 2007. Within the next five years the actual economic slowdown should have been turned into a new increasing stage again, probably and hopefully it won´t last nearly so long!

In the case of the B744 it´s very likely that they will convert some options into firm oders. But the B742 replacement seems a bit curious to me, because - correct me if i´m wrong - you posted some time ago that LH is still hireing and training new cockpitcrews for the B742 (last 3 man cockpit in LH´s fleet). As the replacement should start not before fall 2002, i guess that we´ll still see the B742 in LH´s fleet for some more years to come, perhaps 2004, depending on the growth rates of LH´s intercontinental traffic. Or LH has changed its opion about the B742 and the B744 orders will boost the replacement, i don´t know? Perhaps you try to get some (may be internal  Big grin) news about this in the upcoming weeks and months?

I´m looking forward to Monday to read the full interview. In this pre-extracts of articles, you never don´t know, what interesting things they just leave away ...

Regards, D-AIFB

User currently offlineLH738 From Germany, joined Nov 2000, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

J. Weber also said that it is a good opportunity to place an order now. The overall economical situation isn't good at the moment so there is a good chance to get attractive prices from the manufacturers.

User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

LH 738, that might be one of the main reasons. I haven´t thought about this point yet.

User currently offlineA345-Fan From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3917 times:


They still need cockpitcrews for the B742F from LH Cargo!



User currently offlineGOT From Sweden, joined Dec 2000, 1912 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

I think this might be the right time for LH to order the A380. The economy in the world is slowing down, which in combination with Airbus need to sell more a/c might lead to huge discounts.
The econmoy will get stronger and the new a/c wont be delivered until 2006 or 2007. Since Boeing stopped their 747X everything looks like LH will order the A380.


Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21652 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

The recent wage hike for LH crews is an additional incentive to have fewer pilots flying more passengers.

On the other hand, Airbus will close the doors on the special launch customer rebates at a certain point. Weber is probably manoevering for a good position here as well.

User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

the thing about LH still hiring flight enginees for its 742s i came across some time ago, and this could possibly have changed now since LH seems to be retiring at least some of its 742s ahead of schedule.
and it´s certainly correct the LHcargo has still 742s and they need the engineers as well...

but i´d love to hear more about LH´s plans for MUC, hope there´s more about that in the interview.


If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3875 times:

I don´t expect further details on the MUC expansion in this "DER SPIEGEL"-interview ... but we´ll know better tomorrow!

But some more interesting things about LH´s MUC expansion were published last week in some newspapers. Let me give you an extract (again quite long as typical for me, i´m sorry!  Smile)

Fryday, 08-10-01 / "Die Welt" regional issue Bavaria:

Last Wednesday two high LH officials visited MUC: Christoph Klingenberg / "infrastructure manager" (or sth. like that, dunno in english) and Karsten Benz / LH-networkmanagement.

They said, that LH is very content with the recently opened new intercontinental destinations LAX, HKG, SIN and GRU (load factors in July 80%, in August more than 90%).

As the economical slowdown doesn´t effect the Munich area in that way it does other regions, there is no need to reduce capacity in MUC at the moment, it was said. Lufthansa even wants to increase their operations here, e.g. with additional longhaul flights.

The LH station manager in Munich, Mr. Fischer, mentioned some weeks ago (in Süddeutsche Zeitung, a big german newspaper), that LH intends to serve 12 intercontinental destinations from MUC in 2003, currently we´ve got 7. So we might get 5 additional longhaul destinations from MUC within only two years.

1) They are looking at the northamerican market, especially the east coast. Being asked about BOSas a new dest., K. Benz said: "This would fit with our network".
2) Furthermore LH has got an eye on the chinese market, in cooperation with their partner Air China. They consider PEK and especially PVG as very interesting destinations, along with HKG (which is already served trice weekly from MUC).
3) The 3rd most interesting market for LH possible to be served from MUC is Japan, mainly a connection with Tokyo NRT.

--> So LH´s new destinations served from MUC will probably be BOS, PVG, PEK and NRT, beside increasing frequencies on the excisting routes (e.g. HKG, SIN). But perhaps they surprise us with another destination, we don´t think of at the moment. For 2002 there are rumours of basing another 2 or 3 LH longhaul a/c in MUC, but nothing is decided yet. The longhaul increase will be steadily supported by the expansion of their six bank hub with many additional frequencies on innergerman and particularly on various european routes. And of course, a further economic slowdown could cross the plans. I´m aware of this.

This is the rumour corner (of course not mentioned in the press):
Last but not least there are also the Star Alliance members, which will increase service to MUC one after the other. Rumours talk about AC (YUL), China Airlines (PEK, PVG) as well as SQ (SIN). RG just quit MUC due to several reasons (TAM stepping in in FRA and therefore increased service to FRA, bad economical situation in Brazil, problems in harmonizing their schedule with the LH flights), but they´ll be back in some time. I´ve just read, UA will bring back the B772 from November this year on their daily service to IAD. Things could change quickly.

Fryday 08-10-01 / "Sueddeutsche Zeitung" regional part Munich and local part Freising (which is a town next to MUC airport)

Some figures about Lufthansa in MUC (2001 MUC - estimated total pax about 25 million pax, about 330000 commercial movements without general aviation):

estimated LH movements (without their partner airlines) in MUC:
2001 173000
2003 202000 nearly +17%

estimated LH pax (without their partner airlines) in MUC:
2001 13,7 million
2003 16,2 million more than +18%

Mr. Klingenberg said that it would be possible for MUC to obtain bigger LH operations than FRA (! only LH movements, not overall!) in the second half of this decade, if FRA can´t open their 4th runway until 2006, but a few years later e.g. 2010.

---> It seems a little bit that LH itself doesn´t believe anymore that the completition of FRA´s 4th runway can be finished until 2006, because some weeks ago the LH station manager in MUC said the same thing (MUC overtaking FRA in LH movements by 2010). And now CEO Mr. Weber claimed, MUC needs it 3rd runway, if growth continues (and it does). But for sure they´re still hoping it´ll be finished in 2006. No doubt about this!

In 1997 there was an equal situation: In an interview with the same news magazine ("DER SPIEGEL") CEO J. Weber called for a new runway in FRA and so started the big discussion about the runway-topic leading into the advanced planing stage, the project is currently in. Nice parallel!

Hope, i didn´t bore you ...  Big grin
best regards, D-AIFB

User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

hey man, you didn´t bore us a bit. at least not me!!!

i´m sure you still remember my topic once about LH´s next intercontinental routes from MUC, and we all assumed that BOS, PEK, PVG and NRT were among the leading candidates...  Big thumbs up

about RG, i´ve already read they´ll back to MUC this winter schedule, but i really don´t know anymore where i read about that, and it seems strange but hopefully it´s true...


If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Of course i remember the intensive discussion about this topic some months ago and hey ... we did a real good job, didn´t we!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

About RG in MUC: I´ve read this too (guess it was jetstream.ch). But i can´t imagine, they´ll come back already this winter. Stopping flights in July and reinstate them in November after not even 4 months would appear very strange to me. Has the situation changed fundamental since July? I don´t think so.

Nevertheless, it would be great and a surprise, if they start service again this winter, but i fear, we´ll have to wait some more months, perhaps summer 02 or more likely winter 02/03.

User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (14 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3811 times:

In the mentioned "SPIEGEL"-article, as expected, there are unfortunately no further details about the MUC expansion (but now we know more about this anyway) and about the exact number of A380, LH wants to order. The board meeting is next month, so we´ll see then ...

A few other things:

To the rumours of "LH buying a stake in Swissair and building up a third hub in ZRH" CEO Jürgen Weber said: "Definitly no interest!". The "Nordrhein-Westfalen"-area (west and northwest Germany) is much more interesting for LH than the oversized SR with its small home market. But he didn´t exclude possible codeshare-cooperations with SR and/or SN (there are also rumours about this).

New C-Class seat:
LH (respectively their seat manufacturer) is currently developing a new business class seat with internet connection. I guess, this isn´t something really new. No words about the long awaited PTVs in Y-class.

Hamburg won´t see any LH longhaul flight the next time due to the lack of enough passengers to provide a regular longhaul service from there. LH will stick to its excisting gateways (mainly FRA, MUC and DUS). CEO Weber is very content with the development of MUC as LH´s 2nd hub.

Redards, D-AIFB

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