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British Pm In Japan - How?  
User currently offlineblackwidow From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 95 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13615 times:

As the British PM: David Cameron embarks on tour of South East Asia its would be unsual not to have a tread on how he got there...????

Who's jumbo is this??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Asian-trade-mission.html?ITO=1490

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13629 times:
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I guess from British Airways.

[Edited 2012-04-10 06:55:24]


Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13595 times:

Doesn't look like it with that grey underside.

User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13437 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 2):

..or the Union Flag that big on the door.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineGCPET From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13319 times:

Tried guessing from this video but not sure who it is. Definitely not BA or VS though who usually ferry the PM around.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...id-cameron-japan-defence-contracts

Any ideas?

GCPET



If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
User currently offlineAwyrCymru From UK - Wales, joined Jul 2005, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13292 times:

From one report I've seen it looked like one of SonAir / Atlas Air's Boeing 747-400s


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Photo © CF Yuen




AwyrCymru ~ AirWales
User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13177 times:
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Sometimes they use a Virgin Atlatic plane. I doubt that the British PM uses a non G-registered aircraft, also for legal reasons...


Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlinemarky From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13148 times:

Quoting AwyrCymru (Reply 5):
it looked like one of SonAir / Atlas Air's Boeing 747-400s

N322SG was at LHR yesterday with Union Flag markings around the passenger door, so almost certainly correct.

Quoting chieft (Reply 6):
I doubt that the British PM uses a non G-registered aircraft, also for legal reasons...

What 'legal reasons' would prevent it?


User currently offlineLHR27C From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 1279 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13105 times:

Quoting chieft (Reply 6):
Sometimes they use a Virgin Atlatic plane. I doubt that the British PM uses a non G-registered aircraft, also for legal reasons...

Not true, Tony Blair chartered a Swiss registered (Privatair) DC-8 to JNB a few years ago.



Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13033 times:
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Quoting marky (Reply 7):

What 'legal reasons' would prevent it?

Generally speeking, on board of an aircraft, the law of the country of registration applies whenever a plane is in flight, even if it is overflying other countries territories. In flight, is to be read as from the moment the doors close for the purpose of departing, till the reopening of the doors at the gate after arrival.

So, the British PM would be, so to say, on state visist in the US (on a N- registered aircraft) and has to follow their law. Basically a complicated sitiation and a complicated matter itself...



Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13019 times:
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OK, obviously it is not that much a problem as I thought and as this picture proofs:



[Edited 2012-04-10 09:06:45]


Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlinechieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12991 times:
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Looks quite nice inside...

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Atlas...(SonAir)/Boeing-747-481/2009723/M/



Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8339 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12695 times:
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Why do the Queen and prime minister from the UK have the IN-Dignity of leasing a commercial airplane. Third World countries have presidential airplanes. The UK should have an Airbus A330-200 with Rolls engines. That would be Dignified for the PM and The Queen, "Blair Force One" under that PM or " CAM Force One " now.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25161 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12663 times:

Quoting LHR27C (Reply 8):
Quoting chieft (Reply 6):
Sometimes they use a Virgin Atlatic plane. I doubt that the British PM uses a non G-registered aircraft, also for legal reasons...

Not true, Tony Blair chartered a Swiss registered (Privatair) DC-8 to JNB a few years ago.

It wasn't Privatair. They have never operated any DC-8s. It was another Swiss VIP operator.


User currently offlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12600 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):

Why do the Queen and prime minister from the UK have the IN-Dignity of leasing a commercial airplane. Third World countries have presidential airplanes. The UK should have an Airbus A330-200 with Rolls engines. That would be Dignified for the PM and The Queen, "Blair Force One" under that PM or " CAM Force One " now.

There are RAF aircraft that operate Royal and Presidential flights on occasion. For longhaul flights there are plenty of aircraft like this Atlas bird on the market for one-time use, or BA has airplanes that can be easily configured into a Royal Flight configuration.

Just because those third-world countries have presidential airplanes doesn't mean they are in any way cost effective.



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlineORDJOE From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12456 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
Why do the Queen and prime minister from the UK have the IN-Dignity of leasing a commercial airplane. Third World countries have presidential airplanes. The UK should have an Airbus A330-200 with Rolls engines. That would be Dignified for the PM and The Queen, "Blair Force One" under that PM or " CAM Force One " now.

For the reason the UK is for the most part broke (along with a good deal of 1st world governments). it is refreshing to see them go the reasonable route (PS I do think also all our presidents way over use air force one FWIW)


User currently onlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12099 posts, RR: 49
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12363 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
Why do the Queen and prime minister from the UK have the IN-Dignity of leasing a commercial airplane. Third World countries have presidential airplanes. The UK should have an Airbus A330-200 with Rolls engines. That would be Dignified for the PM and The Queen, "Blair Force One" under that PM or " CAM Force One " now.



The sheer cost involved with something like that! And BA is the national carrier so it makes sense to use them, the USA does not have a national carrier per say.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3970 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12331 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
Third World countries have presidential airplanes.

Third world countries have planes that reflect the ego and power-hunger of their un-elected leaders. They are as often as not used for shopping trips to New York and Paris instead of official travel.
I am not sure this is the yardstick one should use to measure the (lack of) long-haul British government aircraft.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinebevisisback From Netherlands, joined Oct 2009, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12294 times:

I am confused.... I thought VS was operating these flights now.

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8339 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12252 times:
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Quoting jetblast (Reply 14):
Just because those third-world countries have presidential airplanes doesn't mean they are in any way cost effective.

Yes, airplanes do cost a lot to operate but presidents, monarchs and CEO time is valueable. Making the Queens lease planes is awful.

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 15):
For the reason the UK is for the most part broke (along with a good deal of 1st world governments). it is refreshing to see them go the reasonable route (PS I do think also all our presidents way over use air force one FWIW)

Obama does "overuse" AF1, just flew over my house on its way to Miami for another relection event. How much did the entire Palm Beach County Sheriff Motor Cycle squad cost today ? Way too much ?


User currently offlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12086 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 19):
Yes, airplanes do cost a lot to operate but presidents, monarchs and CEO time is valueable. Making the Queens lease planes is awful.

How so? The Queen's Royal Flight team puts together the lease arrangements, not The Queen herself.

Whether or not The Queen is on a leased 747 or her own 747 the flight time is still the same, so I'm not sure I understand.

What would they do with the aircraft when it's not being used? It would sit and deteriorate - probably one of the reasons Air Force One is flown so much. It's not cost effective to have such a devoted aircraft and it would appear HM Government agrees.



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlinegingersnap From United Kingdom, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 893 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12047 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):

Why do the Queen and prime minister from the UK have the IN-Dignity of leasing a commercial airplane. Third World countries have presidential airplanes. The UK should have an Airbus A330-200 with Rolls engines. That would be Dignified for the PM and The Queen, "Blair Force One" under that PM or " CAM Force One " now.

I believe with the A330MRTT aircraft coming online with the RAF, it would be an excellent idea for our head of state and government to utilise these aircraft for occasions such as this.



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11961 times:

It's also worth noting that the RAF has an entire group devoted to Royal and VIP operations, No 32 The Royal Squadron. They operate BAe146 and HS125 aircraft, and AW109 helicopters for The Queen and other dignitaries.


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Photo © Johan Knijn photography


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Photo © James Shelbourn




Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2985 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11848 times:
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Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 15):
For the reason the UK is for the most part broke (along with a good deal of 1st world governments). it is refreshing to see them go the reasonable route (PS I do think also all our presidents way over use air force one FWIW)

UK PLC could stretch to several hundred million right now as we still have AAA credit rating and a stable currency.And are the seventh largest economy.
We can actually fund our debit and have a real strategy for rapid reduction of same .(Unlike the US)
That strategy comes with a negative growth effect however.

The problem is we are governed by the very small minded , Daily Mail and the Murdock press that believe its a waist of public money (Even through its a drop in the ocean of our public spend) to have a dedicated government transport.

The UK should indeed invest in a A318/319CJ with full and secure data links as a matter of national security but we won't any time soon.

As for the lease of HB-IGH by Tony Blair think that was a Private/Labour Party contract and not on government business.

As said normally BA or VS are contracted for government flights.

This visit by the PM to Japan is primarily a Trade mission and is NOT a UK government/ state visit. A significant number of the seats have been SOLD onto UK captains of industry and the media at commercial rates.

The lease rate may well have been fully covered by these sales and have virtually not cost the the UK tax payer.

THe PM has a separate visit arranged into Burma and this may well use a RAF transport later in the week as this is a UK political/government initiative.


User currently offlineLHR27C From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 1279 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11485 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):

It wasn't Privatair. They have never operated any DC-8s. It was another Swiss VIP operator.

Yes my mistake, it was HB-IGH which the database lists as Jet Aviation.



Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
25 marky : Yes, that is true, but I think: is probably stretching the point!
26 Post contains links and images Devilfish : 'CAN'T FORCE ONE' might be more accurate. . I think it's a Sikorsky S-76C++ for HM..... View Large View MediumPhoto © Rick Ingham
27 jumpjets : Its interesting that the person who is probably least bothered by what she flies in is the Queen - according to Prince Philip if its not a horse she's
28 lhrnue : It is quite funny how small the Union Jack sticker is, while being quite effective in the close up. Although somebody missed that the left side disapp
29 1stfl94 : The Queen can effectively have a private jet as BA can convert 777s to a VIP config pretty quickly (there's recent post about this), better an existi
30 AirbusA6 : It would be nice if the UK could buy a secondhand A340-500, as these seem to be going pretty cheap these days, so would be much more cost effective th
31 something : The queen should have her own private wide body jet, funded by tax money, but the president can't have a motor cycle squad. Understandable. invest Pr
32 jourdan747 : Looks like an Atlas Air 747-400
33 nipoel123 : As far as I know, a, for example, G-registered overflying the US is subject to the laws from both countries, whichever is more restrictive. Take a fi
34 propellix : As soon as the RAFs A330 MRTTs are available, I´d think that for a true state visit, they´d be available. Using the crabby old VC10s would be a nigh
35 Post contains links IH8BY : We aren't the only people interested in what the PM was flying, it appears. The words 'mountain' and 'molehill' come to mind, however... The paper sta
36 AirbusA6 : The VC10s haven't been used for state visits for ages, but would be a cool way of flying around! Typical Daily Mail angle, though it is slightly emba
37 Post contains images aloges : It's the Mail, what were you expecting them to do?
38 GCT64 : That was more true 10 years ago than it is now. Quite a lot of 32 Sqn's taskings are now operationally focused with HS125 and BAe146 aircraft forward
39 LOWS : Didn't this come up under the late Bush Administration? As I recall, they kept adding things to the helicopter that the price kept rising. When the c
40 Fabo : I think I read somewhere about 747-8 being built for the USAF eventually... I guess after they prove themselves in service?
41 0NEWAIR0 : The program actually started right after 9/11 and was supposed to be complete in 2009 or 2010; however, the program kept having delays and the cost d
42 chieft : By the way, and a bit OT: Air Force One is every USAF aircraft called, in which the US President flies, it is a call sign only and not dedicated to a
43 qf002 : Pfft... Even little old Julia Gillard down here has her own plane...
44 mikey72 : The American President and the Queen...LOL I sleep better knowing that in the event of WW3 the commander in chief of the worlds largest military arsen
45 bthebest : What annoys me about all these articles is they keep saying 'He flew on an Angolan jet' etc. The aircraft is US registered, and OWNED by Atlas Air, b
46 mikey72 : I personally (speaking as a Brit) always used to enjoy the spectacle of the Queen or the P.M arriving somewhere on Concorde. Not that it happened very
47 rfields5421 : It is a realtively simple common process to extend diplomatic immunity coverage of a foreign leader to the aircraft, vehicles, ship used by that fore
48 CaptainKramer : I read that the Government wanted to hire a British Airways aircraft for Camerons trip, but none were available for the specific dates required, hence
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