Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
OAG Changes 4/13/2012: US/VX/WN  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".


Really slow week.  

*9K BHB-BOS JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>3 OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3

AA SJU-DOM AUG 1.1>1.5 DEC 1.2>1.4

AC ABE-YYZ MAY 1.7>1.6
AC CVG-YYZ MAY 1.7>1.5
AC LAS-YUL MAY 1.3>1.0 JUN 1.2>1.0 SEP 1.3>1.0 OCT 1.2>1.0
AC LAX-YUL MAY 1.8>1.6
AC SEA-YYZ MAY 2>1.5

AF IAD-CDG OCT 1.9>1.6

*AM ORD-CUN MAY 0.5>0.1 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0

AS LAX-YVR JUL 4>3
AS SEA-LAX JUN 12>11 JUL 12>11 AUG 12>11
AS SEA-PSC SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5 NOV 6>5 DEC 6>5

CM MIA-PTY JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
CM SJU-PTY JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3 SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3 NOV 2>3 DEC 2>3

DL DTW-DCA AUG 6>7 SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7
DL DTW-YYZ JUL 8>7
DL JFK-DCA JUL 4>3 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2
DL LGA-BOS NOV 13>12
DL MBS-MSP JUN 1.6>1.0 JUL 1.8>1.0 SEP 1.8>1.1 OCT 1.9>1.0
Wow, only 3 RTs left hub2hub
*DL MEM-MSP SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
DL MSP-YYZ JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6

G4 BLI-PSP JUN 0.6>0.4

HU LAX-PVG MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
HU ORD-PEK MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
HU ORD-PVG MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

IB MIA-MAD NOV 1.0>1.4 DEC 1.0>1.5

KS BHB-BOS JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2

LA MIA-BOG SEP 1.4>1.0 OCT 1.4>1.0 NOV 1.5>1.0 DEC 1.4>1.0

NK FLL-ZSA SEP 0.2>0

OZ LAS-LAX JUN 0.7>0
OZ LAX-SJC JUN 0>0.8
OZ SEA-ICN OCT 1.0>0.8

SE JFK-CDG SEP 0.2>0.5 OCT 0>0.3

SY DFW-CUN DEC 0.6>0.3

TA JFK-SAP MAY 0.3>0.1
TA LAX-SAL AUG 2>1.9
TA MIA-GUA MAY 1.0>0.9
TA MIA-SAP MAY 1.0>0.8

UP BWI-FPO MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3
UP RDU-FPO MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3
UP RIC-FPO MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3
UP SDF-FPO MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3

US BHB-BOS MAY 2>0
US BOS-LGA JUL 14>13
US CLT-LGA JUL 13>12 AUG 14>13
US CLT-MYR JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8
US CLT-SBY AUG 4>3
US CLT-SDF JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8
US DCA-CLT JUL 11>10 AUG 12>11
US DCA-ORF JUL 3>5 AUG 3>4
US DCA-PBI JUL 3>1.6 AUG 4>3
US DCA-PWM JUL 3>4
*US DCA-RSW JUL 1.5>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0 OCT 3>0 NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0.8
US LGA-PIT SEP 7>6 DEC 7>6
US PHL-BUF JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
US PHL-DCA JUL 10>9 AUG 10>9
US PHL-ELM JUL 5>6
US PHL-ITH JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
Jeez...enough with the PHL-LGA RTs.
*US PHL-LGA JUL 13>14 AUG 10>13 SEP 10>12 OCT 10>12 NOV 10>12 DEC 10>12
US PHL-MKE JUL 4>5
US PHL-ROC JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
US PHL-YHZ JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
US PHL-YOW JUL 4>3
US PHL-YQB JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
US PHX-FLG JUL 8>6 AUG 8>6
US PHX-LAX JUL 8>7 AUG 8>7
US PHX-TUS JUL 11>10 AUG 11>10
US PHX-YVR AUG 2>3

VX BOS-SFO AUG 3>4
1 RT seemed like a light schedule
*VX PDX-SFO JUL 1.0>1.8
Are they closing it?
*VX PSP-SFO DEC 1.0>0

WN ATL-DEN NOV 0.2>0.1
WN ATL-LAS NOV 0.2>0.1
These trips moved back to FL
*WN ATL-LAX AUG 3>1.6 SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2 NOV 0.2>0.1
WN ATL-MDW SEP 5>4
WN ATL-PHX SEP 2>1.0
WN AUS-DAL JUN 11>12 JUL 11>12
*WN AUS-PDX JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0
WN BOS-STL JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
More FL trades
*WN CAK-DEN SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
*WN CAK-MDW AUG 0>1.3 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2
*WN DAY-DEN SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
Is this a net-new flight or an FL trade?
*WN DEN-MKE JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 1.4>3 SEP 1.0>3 OCT 1.0>3
*WN DSM-MDW OCT 0>2
ECP must be doing better than we all thought.
*WN ECP-STL JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.0
WN LAS-MKE OCT 3>4
WN MKE-PHX OCT 1.9>3

ZK DEN-FMN NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4
ZK DEN-PGA NOV 0.1>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
ZK FMN-SOW NOV 0.8>1.7 DEC 0.7>1.7
ZK IGM-PHX NOV 1.1>1.9 DEC 1.0>1.8
ZK LAX-PRC NOV 0.2>2 DEC 0>2
ZK PGA-PHX NOV 1.1>2 DEC 1.0>2
ZK PGA-PRC NOV 0.1>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
ZK PHX-SOW DEC 2>3

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5683 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Wow, only 3 RTs left hub2hub
*DL MEM-MSP SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3

I don't suppose there is much left that isn't already covered by MSP or ATL.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HU LAX-PVG
HU ORD-PEK
HU ORD-PVG

Code-share on AA services.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17511 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5635 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HU LAX-PVG MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
HU ORD-PEK MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
HU ORD-PVG MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

AA codeshare. Weird that it's showing up in OAG.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5436 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5544 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
1 RT seemed like a light schedule
*VX PDX-SFO JUL 1.0>1.8
Are they closing it?
*VX PSP-SFO DEC 1.0>0

Interesting. Yes, doubling SFO-PDX is certainly a good move although I will want to take a look at the schedule to see if it's been re-worked into more of a business commute-friendly, one-day trip offering. This had to be changed -- one flight in the market was just silly and useless.

And PSP showing no flights in December is certainly odd but as that is 8 months out, things could change...

bb


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5445 times:

PSP was always meant to be seasonal. This year for example it ends in about 2-weeks (Apr 30)
Not sure what their planned restart date is. (was Dec 15th last year). I guess they must have done OK however as they did extend the service several weeks this spring from its original end date.


The added PDX flight is as follows:
VX818 SFO-PDX 1600-1750
VX819 PDX-SFO 1835-2025

[Edited 2012-04-11 09:47:54]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 976 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

ATL-LAX, ATL-LAS, and ATL-DEN all go from 3 daily to 2 on WN metal. Only 2 days of the Nov schedule are posted making them appear as if they're ending.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
US LGA-PIT SEP 7>6 DEC 7>6
US PHL-BUF JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
US PHL-DCA JUL 10>9 AUG 10>9
US PHL-ELM JUL 5>6
US PHL-ITH JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
Jeez...enough with the PHL-LGA RTs.
*US PHL-LGA JUL 13>14 AUG 10>13 SEP 10>12 OCT 10>12 NOV 10>12 DEC 10>12
US PHL-MKE JUL 4>5
US PHL-ROC JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
US PHL-YHZ JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
US PHL-YOW JUL 4>3
US PHL-YQB JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4

First of all, can we stop complaining about PHL-LGA? The fact of the matter is that due to the Air Wisconsin crew base in LGA, they have to still have a lot of flights to PHL without making LGA-CLT all CRJ-200s, which I know no one wants. The second thing is, there are people on these flights and US does make money on them as strange as that seems. Thirdly, having a bunch of LGA helps in IROPS because it gives the agents a little more flexibility in routing pax, not to mention having easy flights to cancel to help PHL out. Lastly, they have to use their slots somewhere, and even if they wanted to get rid of them, the DOT wasn't going to let DL get any more slots out of the deal, so realistically, what choice does US have?

That rant over....a few frequency additions in PHL. I am surprised that YQB is adding a 4th flight as those flights only seem to be 60 percent full at best (usually 40 percent). MKE is a no brainer, and that will help Air Wisconsin with getting planes to and from their MKE MX hangar. The upstate NY flights will help make up for the LGA service lost in the slot deal as they actually did connect PAX in LGA strangely enough. YOW dropping a PHL makes sense as there is now 3 DCA-YOW's and a CLT-YOW that they can route people over. YHZ going to four a day is something I thought already happened, or this could be a seasonal adjustment as well.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

*9K BHB-BOS

This is Cape Air taking over the EAS route from Colgan, hence the US change on the same route. This is an EAS route that has done well historically, and I think Cape Air will do well with this one.


User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
NK FLL-ZSA SEP 0.2>0

must be time to re-bid the ClubMed contract, unless somebody else already got it



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5147 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 1):
I don't suppose there is much left that isn't already covered by MSP or ATL.

It's a little strange to see them pull that MSP, however, because as they shrink the hub they need those hub routes to cover the traffic.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HU LAX-PVG
HU ORD-PEK
HU ORD-PVG
Code-share on AA services.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
AA codeshare. Weird that it's showing up in OAG.

Ahh, I wondered what that was. HU probably just forgot or doesn't know how to mark the flights properly as a duplicate in their OAG filing.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 4):
Interesting. Yes, doubling SFO-PDX is certainly a good move

Just for a month, though.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 4):
And PSP showing no flights in December is certainly odd but as that is 8 months out, things could change...

Actually, they also deleted PSP from January. There is no resumption date now. They do not have a FEB schedule filed. T100 shows it had a 61% LF in 12/2011 which was the first month reported. That's poor, but not atypical for a first month. Perhaps they already gave up on it ala SNA? Another possibility is that they are seeking a subsidy of some sort and removed it for more leverage.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
This year for example it ends in about 2-weeks (Apr 30)
Not sure what their planned restart date is. (was Dec 15th last year).

It looks like they are suspending it unless it is a schedule error. I don't think the VX product works well on short-haul except to LAS. I question the supposed plan to add LAX-SMF.

Quoting apodino (Reply 7):
First of all, can we stop complaining about PHL-LGA?

No, we cannot. They are wasting slots and they should go to B6 or WN or somebody else.

Quoting apodino (Reply 7):
The fact of the matter is that due to the Air Wisconsin crew base in LGA, they have to still have a lot of flights to PHL without making LGA-CLT all CRJ-200s, which I know no one wants.
Quoting apodino (Reply 7):
Lastly, they have to use their slots somewhere

It's all about the slots and I wouldn't keep bringing it up if they didn't keep increasing and increasing the flights on the route. It's a joke.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3480 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

I'll complain about the flights

There are 15 flights today LGA-PHL

This claimed money maker route has:
1 E190
9 Dash 8s
4 CRJs
1 ERJ

There is 0 local traffic. Zero!

The slots are highly coveted by other airlines (especially LCCs) that will use them to fly places with mainline equipment. 9 Dash 8s vs 9 320s with 150 seats.

Assuming the 320s have 150 seats and a flat 50 seats for the Dash 8s (and that is being generous)

100 more people per flight x 9 flights = 900 more people per day. Assuming a cab ride to the city for half that group at 30 dollars a pop.

That is $13,500 being pumped into our local economy a day. $94,500 per year. $4.9 million per year.

That is real money


In an unregulated market, US has every right to serve its hub in PHL how it sees fit. But when you have a slot controlled airport, that should not be the case.

AND I have a sneaking suspicion that if there were no slots, you would not see 9 flights a day on turboprops.

They are slot squatting, plain and simple


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5436 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
PSP was always meant to be seasonal. This year for example it ends in about 2-weeks (Apr 30)
Not sure what their planned restart date is. (was Dec 15th last year). I guess they must have done OK however as they did extend the service several weeks this spring from its original end date

Yes, a seasonal route for sure. But no service (as of now) planned in December? (Even December seems a bit late to me to be starting a sun-and-fun, warm-weather, golf-and-swimming destination flight -- and only a single, 90-minute, intra-state flight at that...)

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
The added PDX flight is as follows:
VX818 SFO-PDX 1600-1750
VX819 PDX-SFO 1835-2025
Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
Just for a month, though.

Hmmmm. Thanks for the info guys. So apparently VX won't be changing the original flight to an a.m. r/t? And the second flight is only for a month? Well, who am I to question David Cush and his team? But they sure aren't making a big impressive splash at their newest city! (Perhaps the incentive package offered by Portland just wasn't up to Virgin's usual standards.   )

It will be very interesting to see the near-term future plans of Virgin at PDX and how it all works out for all concerned.

bb


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2104 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

So let's just revoke every slot flown by something with less than 150 seats and give them to airlines that will fly 737s or A320s into LGA. That should fix all of the problems in NYC.

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4903 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
100 more people per flight x 9 flights = 900 more people per day. Assuming a cab ride to the city for half that group at 30 dollars a pop.

That is $13,500 being pumped into our local economy a day. $94,500 per year. $4.9 million per year.

That is real money

Oh, add in the hotel and food and it is 10 or 20 times that.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
AND I have a sneaking suspicion that if there were no slots, you would not see 9 flights a day on turboprops.

They are slot squatting, plain and simple

PHL-LGA is 1.1% local according to DOT and carries an average of 28 passengers per flight.

If it were being allocated for anything other than slot-sitting it would have maybe one mainline to cover the Atlantic bank and 5 or 6 other flights per day. DCA-PHL has 8 flights per day and they are BOTH hubs for US.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4904 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
There is 0 local traffic. Zero!

Ah common, lets not exaggerate now.

Per DOT well over 170,000 people flew the US LGA-PHL route in the last 12-months.

And believe it or not, local O&D is 515 folks daily between NYC and PHL, so there clearly is some demand for flights between the cities.


Also keep in min that, for US Airways, NYC is an important and large market, and these flights allow it to sell its entire network to the NYC market by routing people LGA-PHL-XXX.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
AND I have a sneaking suspicion that if there were no slots, you would not see 9 flights a day on turboprops.

They are slot squatting, plain and simple

I believe they used to run about 20 dash 8's on this. I wouldn't call 9 so bad. What should they fly to their hub that's a stones throw away? More RJ's?


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4762 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 14):

Ah common, lets not exaggerate now.

Per DOT well over 170,000 people flew the US LGA-PHL route in the last 12-months.

And believe it or not, local O&D is 515 folks daily between NYC and PHL, so there clearly is some demand for flights between the cities.


Also keep in min that, for US Airways, NYC is an important and large market, and these flights allow it to sell its entire network to the NYC market by routing people LGA-PHL-XXX.

Thank you...finally someone gets it  

As I said before and I will say it again, what is USAirways supposed to do with the slots? If they had tried to divest them to Delta in the deal giving them even more slots, the DOT and DOJ would not have approved the slot deal, period. The other option would be to divest the slots to someone else. But who? Even though B6 has an LGA presence, any more LGA slots could risk undermining JFK. UA could have a use for them, but they have the EWR hub and a significant amount of service to both ORD and IAH from LGA, so I don't think they would get them. AA is bankrupt and can't afford the slots. F9 isn't going to have a use for 10 LGA-DEN flights, nor would it be profitable for them. VX wouldn't have a use for them since their big hubs are beyond perimeter. Realistically, the only carrier I could see that would make good use of the slots would be WN. The question is though, how much does WN want to expose their network to LGA? Clearly it's an airport they serve, but given the way WN operates, too much service at a delay proned airport won't help their operation out, and given current routes out of LGA, unless they wanted to add DEN service, I just don't see how it would help WN long term.


That does beg the question though? In the initial slot deal, US said they wanted to maintain ILM-LGA service as their only non hub flight? They decided not to...but wouldn't 3X daily on that route if they wanted to, allow them to only run 9 PHL-LGA's?

One last thing. We are only talking about maybe 1 extra flight an hour in LGA. One flight is not going to make that much of a difference in terms of easing the traffic congestion in LGA.

So again, I will say. Quit complaining about PHL-LGA. It's not going anywhere, and quite frankly myself and many A.Net people are sick of the constant complaining about this that will do absolutely nothing. If you are that upset by it, write Doug and Scott a letter please.


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 7):
apodino

As noted above also, KS is starting BHB-BOS too in June. They will supplement 9K in the summer season. 9K will fly alone in the off season.


User currently offlinemjzair From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 7):

Clearly, the only reason that these flights remained was the Air Wisconsin base. After all, it was a big decision in the RDU flights... Oh wait....


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7577 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AC CVG-YYZ MAY 1.7>1.5

How is this route doing? I haven't heard anything about it since it started.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HU LAX-PVG MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
HU ORD-PEK MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
HU ORD-PVG MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Code-share on AA services.

Someone i know at LAX told me that HU is actually sending their metal there.... is HU part of OW or something?

If not the case, again interesting it's on the OAG.


again, thanks for the report Enilria 



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 15):
I believe they used to run about 20 dash 8's on this. I wouldn't call 9 so bad. What should they fly to their hub that's a stones throw away? More RJ's?

As they waited for the sale of slots to DL to happen, they stashed more and more slots on LGA-PHL, but now they are doing it again.

Quoting apodino (Reply 16):
As I said before and I will say it again, what is USAirways supposed to do with the slots?

Oh, I'm sure B6 wouldn't pay top dollar for them. :p

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AC CVG-YYZ MAY 1.7>1.5

How is this route doing? I haven't heard anything about it since it started.

I think the demise of the CVG hub has been good for the other airlines in CVG. DL used to fly CVG-YYZ up against AC, so I'm sure it is great compared to that!

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
again, thanks for the report Enilria

 


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4592 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Someone i know at LAX told me that HU is actually sending their metal there.... is HU part of OW or something?

Its code-share on all 3 of AA's China routes. They applied with the DOT back in December for this.
AA in return will list its code on HU's SEA-PEK service.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4522 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 20):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AC CVG-YYZ MAY 1.7>1.5

How is this route doing? I haven't heard anything about it since it started.

I think the demise of the CVG hub has been good for the other airlines in CVG. DL used to fly CVG-YYZ up against AC, so I'm sure it is great compared to that!

DL still flies CVG-YYZ


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4522 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 7):
First of all, can we stop complaining about PHL-LGA? The fact of the matter is that due to the Air Wisconsin crew base in LGA, they have to still have a lot of flights to PHL without making LGA-CLT all CRJ-200s, which I know no one wants. The second thing is, there are people on these flights and US does make money on them as strange as that seems. Thirdly, having a bunch of LGA helps in IROPS because it gives the agents a little more flexibility in routing pax, not to mention having easy flights to cancel to help PHL out. Lastly, they have to use their slots somewhere, and even if they wanted to get rid of them, the DOT wasn't going to let DL get any more slots out of the deal, so realistically, what choice does US have?

+1 Completely agree. The whining gets old and is a turn off. Of course I'll get flamed now for calling out someones well known attitude.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 10):
The slots are highly coveted by other airlines (especially LCCs) that will use them to fly places with mainline equipment. 9 Dash 8s vs 9 320s with 150 seats.

Look at all that mainline flying Delta added. Mmmhmm. Guarantee mainline flying will go in there.

Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):

So let's just revoke every slot flown by something with less than 150 seats and give them to airlines that will fly 737s or A320s into LGA. That should fix all of the problems in NYC.

Why stop there? Allow airlines to operate sub 150 seat aircraft, but the aircraft may not fly to a city the larger than a "Small Hub" as classified for the DOT. That should help expand service...right? LOL


User currently offlinekordcj From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
HU ORD-PEK MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
HU ORD-PVG MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

Dang and I thought ORD was getting a new carrier. I was all smiles to be disappointed.

Btw thanks enilria for posting these reports. 



The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
25 knope2001 : All three of these are trades from AirTran. DEN-MKE has been 2x WN / 1x FL. It was planned to go to 1x WN / 2x FL in August and for fall. The new adj
26 Atrude777 : Why are you complaining about PHL-LGA and slot holding when PHL-DCA has just about the same amount of flights as I posted below? No complaints from y
27 toltommy : Then those LCC's should call US and make an offer. DL did it and US listened. Make the right offer and they'll probably listen again. But until then,
28 DeltAirlines : Also, you neglect to mention (but further helps your point) that by US cutting back to a level of 5x or so a day on PHL-LGA would significantly weake
29 RWA380 : So this is where the plane comes from to run PDX-PSC, which I'm surprised did not make it on the update. Yeah I think we all thought 1 flight was not
30 delta2ual : Actually there are some people that wanted to do just that. Of course, many places would lose service altogether if they couldn't fill a 737/320.
31 FlyPNS1 : I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but the O&D between NYC (all airports) and PHL was 18 passengers/day in the 3RD QTR of 2011. NYC is
32 Post contains images enilria : Really? They must be flying out of spite. Think of all the other stuff with no competition they have dropped. It seems like every week somebody says
33 flyguy89 : Couldn't tell you if they're doing it out of spite or not, but it still runs 3x daily on DL Connection in addition to AC's 1.5 daily flights. Given t
34 FlyASAGuy2005 : Goes to show you how weak the Memphis market is without connections compared to say CVG that's still holding its own. I wouldn't be surprised if it's
35 enilria : If memory serves, DL had dropped it, but re-entered exactly when AC did...or am I thinking of CVG-YUL? I think that's true. I haven't looked at the n
36 flyguy89 : I think you might be right. DL only just recently dropped CVG-YUL, but I recall some one mentioning DL had brought back YUL when AC started as a good
37 Post contains images PHX787 : My dad has flown this route a few times, so I called him about it yesterday, and he says that each time it's overbooked. I don't think DL is going to
38 apodino : You may be onto something here. Since US is trying to tie up with AA, having a few extra LGA slots does help in that regard.
39 enilria : I think AC added MEM-YYZ during that same battle. OTOH, if the merger with AA goes South I wonder if they will sell that stuff to B6/WN. There really
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
OAG Changes 3/30/2012: AA/DL/F9/UA/US posted Tue Mar 27 2012 09:58:59 by enilria
OAG Changes 3/23/2012: AA/DL/FL/NK/US/ZK posted Wed Mar 21 2012 14:59:46 by enilria
OAG Changes 3/16/2012: AA/DL/US posted Wed Mar 14 2012 10:28:41 by enilria
OAG Changes 2/24/2012: AA/CO/DL/FL/F9/UA/US posted Tue Feb 21 2012 12:25:46 by enilria
OAG Changes 2/17/2012: AA/CO/DL/F9/UA/US posted Tue Feb 14 2012 10:49:54 by enilria
OAG Changes 1/20/2012:AA/AS/DL/WN posted Thu Jan 19 2012 06:33:53 by enilria
OAG Changes 1/12/2012: F9/UA/US posted Tue Jan 10 2012 10:31:02 by enilria
OAG Changes 5/13/2010: AC/AM/B6/CO/DL/LH/NK/UA/US posted Thu May 13 2010 11:12:07 by enilria
OAG Changes 2/10/2012: AM/CO/DL/FL/UA posted Thu Feb 9 2012 06:20:30 by enilria
OAG Changes 10/17/2011: FL/WN Only posted Mon Oct 17 2011 12:19:32 by enilria