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787 To IAD And DCA In May  
User currently offlineworking2gether From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 83 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10470 times:

According to Jon Ostrower, Boeing will be bringing the 787 to DCA from May 7-11.

"Boeing will bring the 787 to National Airport's 7,169ft runway from May 7-11. First widebody to DCA since December 2008."

According to my inside sources, the 787 will breifly visit IAD before heading to DCA. This is great news and cannot wait to finally see the 787!

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10417 times:

Won't happen at DCA. The airport is not setup for Widebodies. So I would say IAD and BWI would be the D.C. airports it would visit.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlinegatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10358 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 1):
Won't happen at DCA. The airport is not setup for Widebodies. So I would say IAD and BWI would be the D.C. airports it would visit.

Not sold on DCA either, but wide bodies have served DCA as recently as Dec. 2008 for Obama's inauguration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loud0P1mZdw

IAD would make plenty of sense since Dulles is an airport that airlines will send the 787 to in the future...



Cha brro
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10311 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 1):
Won't happen at DCA. The airport is not setup for Widebodies.

Are you sure of that, that it won't happen? Why couldn't the 787 operation into DCA for exhibition purposes? As was noted, widebodies have been there before.


User currently offlineiadbudd From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10185 times:

It certainly can go to DCA for a exhibition flight. Eastern used to use A300'S in the past as a scheduled flight. They can just have the 787 with fumes in the tank for the 5 min hop from DCA to IAD. The runway is long enough. Hopefully it would take off to the north so it can make that sharp bank by the Pentagon right after taking off!

User currently offlinecontrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10119 times:

Quoting working2gether (Thread starter):
"Boeing will bring the 787 to National Airport's 7,169ft runway from May 7-11

7,169 ft. runway? Since when?

When I lived there I thought it was barely a mile in length. They must have done some work on it since then.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlinewlwjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10035 times:

Hi Iadbudd,
No. Eastern never did operate the A300 on scheduled service into DCA. Eastern made 3 attempts with proving runs for the A300 to operate The Shuttle to/from LGA, but political pressure (so-called larger aircraft mean more noise, and larger aircraft mean more passengers) along with the single-engine performance of the GE powerplants caused Eastern to cease the prospect. So they kept the 727 on the Shuttle routes with backup aircraft on standby should one aircraft fill-up at departure time.

Walter


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10009 times:

Quoting wlwjr (Reply 6):
(so-called larger aircraft mean more noise, and larger aircraft mean more passengers) along with the single-engine performance of the GE powerplants caused Eastern to cease the prospect. So they kept the 727 on the Shuttle routes with backup aircraft on standby should one aircraft fill-up at departure time.

Interesting about the noise. I would think a 3 engine 727 would be much noisier than the 2 engine A300.


User currently offlinewlwjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10003 times:

Hi Contrails,
DCA's runway 1/19 has been going through a nearly 9 month refurbishment. It was recently, very recently lengthend to 7,169 feet from 6,869. They are also replacing the approach light pier to runway 1 as well as other overrun improvments. With all this going on, airlines were advised to have diversion plans in effect should an aircraft skid off the runway because of slippery/non-groved surfaces. Several flights over the past several months diverted to IAD because of failing to meet landing limits on runway 15/33 after 1/19 closed between 2200 and 2300 each weeknight.

Walter


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9957 times:

Quoting iadbudd (Reply 4):
They can just have the 787 with fumes in the tank for the 5 min hop from DCA to IAD.

Without having performance charts, I would guess the 787 could easily take off from DCA and make it non-stop to BFI or PAE with a low payload should they desire.


User currently offlinewlwjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 7):

N62NA,
That is exactly why I mentioned "so called". Not to mention that if the 727 filled up with passengers at departure time, if there was just one more Shuttle customer checked-in, they had their own 727 to LGA....another noise maker.
The politics to bring the A300 into DCA was dramatic which is why it was attempted three times. In the big picture, it was also the afforementioned single-engine performance on a hot day of the GE powerplants and the 2nd Segment climb requirements departing north.

You would not believe I was talking about this very subject just the other day while hanging out at Gravelly Point.

Walter


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9891 times:

Thank you Walter. This was a chapter in aviation history I was completely unaware of.

User currently offlinewlwjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9872 times:

With two full 737-800s departing everyday DCA-SEA, there is no doubt the 787 can depart DCA non-stop to BFI with no payload can make the trip...probably around 4,500 to 5,000 feet of runway needed with a balanced field length right near 7,000.

Walter


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9843 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 1):
Won't happen at DCA. The airport is not setup for Widebodies. So I would say IAD and BWI would be the D.C. airports it would visit.

You're wrong. Clearly Jon is right or he wouldn't have said it, and also widebodies can easily serve the airport.

Quoting contrails (Reply 5):
7,169 ft. runway? Since when?

When I lived there I thought it was barely a mile in length. They must have done some work on it since then.

Its been in the 6000s for 30 years.

NS


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4320 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9819 times:
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Quoting working2gether (Thread starter):
National Airport's 7,169ft runway from May 7-11.

It's 6869 ft actually.

That extra 300 feet will take you into Dangerfield Cove at one end of the runway or Roach's Run (slough) at the other.

Of course, without passengers and at minimal takeoff weight -- who knows.


User currently offlinewlwjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9818 times:

Just to clarify, when I mention "political", it was just that. Congress was just as involved as the airlines.
People living near the airport and along the river were calling their congressional representatives citing "no way"....not much different than they do now which is why there is still the requirement for aircraft head up the river 10 miles before turning on course and to come down the river from 10 miles. There are very, very influential people who live in their mansions especially northwest along the Potomac River including several politicians.

Walter


User currently offlinewlwjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9806 times:

Runway 1/19 was lengthend less than a week ago to 7,169 feet!
Check http://airnav.com/airport/KDCA
and other approach charts and official publications.

Walter


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4320 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9789 times:
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Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 14):
It's 6869 ft actually.
Quoting wlwjr (Reply 8):
DCA's runway 1/19 has been going through a nearly 9 month refurbishment. It was recently, very recently lengthend to 7,169 feet from 6,869. They are also replacing the approach light pier to runway 1 as well as other overrun improvments


Okay -- my bad. I stand corrected.

I should have read the entire thread before responding.


User currently offlinewlwjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9766 times:

I understand it's difficult to break 6,869 feet since it's been that way for decades.
I have to explain this to Gravelly Point visitors when I visit 3 times a week and may be difficult to break the habit just like when they changed from 36 to 1. I don't know how many times either I or the controller called it 36 weeks to months after the designation change.


Walter


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5762 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9741 times:

Of all the crappy luck!  

I am just now in the process of moving permanently from DC to Seattle, and only after I leave do they bring the big bird into DCA. I would have done whatever I needed to to be there to see it take off.

Don't forget that DL has brought scheduled 767-300A service into DCA on a variety of occasions, most recently for President Obama's inauguration.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8341 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9710 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 1):
Won't happen at DCA. The airport is not setup for Widebodies.
Quoting contrails (Reply 5):
When I lived there I thought it was barely a mile in length. They must have done some work on it since then.

"Barely a mile" would put the runway at ~5,000 feet, a distance completely unsuitable for anything much bigger than a turboprop or bizjet. Obviously the runway has handled big jets for decades, though, so it's been right around 7,000 for quite some time.

The airport doesn't handle regular widebodies, but it's plenty big enough for a vising 787. I don't know why people are so suprised by this. LGA used to handle 767-400's pretty regularly, and their runway is actually slightly shorter than DCA's current 7100.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3845 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9644 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):
Barely a mile" would put the runway at ~5,000 feet, a distance completely unsuitable for anything much bigger than a turboprop or bizjet.

Any narrowbody can use 5,000ft. with the appropriate payload. Look at Santos Dumont, SNA, EYW...


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1993 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9536 times:

Oh man, would I love to be at Gravelly Point when that bird flies in or out! I'll have to rely on some great shots from other a.nutters!

User currently offlinewlwjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9519 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 19):

For the record, the Delta 767-300 operated at DCA only for Obama's Inauguration with 4 flights...not before except for the live proving flight the previous December 8th (or was it the 9th?).

Walter


User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9482 times:

I know of the shortest field I have seen a widebody operate from was LGA on DL with a 762. You would have to do a static takeoff in order to get the necessary thrust to move the airplane off 1/19 at DCA. I remember watching the 727's of US, DL and TW taking off and then getting just enough airborne above Gravelly Point to clear the park.


I would wonder the reasoning to bring the 787 to DCA. Like I said I see IAD and BWI but not DCA.



I Don't know where I am anymore
25 wlwjr : The airport doesn't handle regular widebodies, but it's plenty big enough for a vising 787. I don't know why people are so suprised by this. LGA used
26 Post contains images Flighty :
27 N766UA : Obviously, I mean a 727 landed at Meigs, but the key there is "with the appropriate payload." 5,000 feet is, for all intents and purposes, useless as
28 71Zulu : Runway info on airnav says TORA, TODA, ASDA & LDA all still 6,879 feet. I thought the 300 feet was just to give the north end of runway 1 the 1,0
29 wlwjr : I know of the shortest field I have seen a widebody operate from was LGA on DL with a 762. You would have to do a static takeoff in order to get the
30 BigSaabowski : You could easily take off an empty 747 from DCA and still have a thousand feet to spare. Signed, CurrentFO.
31 wlwjr : 71Zulu, That is a good point. "Moving the runway 300 feet south is the way it has been descibed in the past as the construction began. So yes, the per
32 rivervisual : It is very much true that the 787 will be coming to DCA in May. Runway 1/19 is long enough for it to take off. The main reason widebodies are not appr
33 Post contains images D L X : Since this month! They've been working on it at nights for probably the last 3-6 months. (I see them working on it when I'm unfortunate enough to hav
34 wlwjr : A side note: National and later Eastern used 727s for short flights MIA-EYW-MIA when the runway was 4,200 feet, and not quite as critical Air Florida
35 kcrwflyer : Why? It's only going to fly somewhere in the US. Keep in mind how far a 767 is designed to fly and the load its capable of carrying. Any domestic rou
36 Post contains images wlwjr : What FutureFo was referring to is back in days, on those warm summer days when the Eastern 727s were full, they would use every bit of runway. And if
37 boacvc10 : Why is P-56 split into two areas? Is there any specific landmark to denote these regions? I would have thought the entire lower D.C. (from Whitehurst
38 washingtonian : Incorrect. Come on, you don't know that inaugurations are not in December? Correct. I don't recall any occassions before this though, so I don't thin
39 Post contains images Flighty : A 762 or 788 would win an equal mission footrace vs. most A32x or 737s (IIRC, non-pilot, armchair recollection). An empty 762 especially is a rocket.
40 iahflyer : Would I be the only who would pay to see that?
41 flylku : Twin aisle aircraft are not allowed to operate there for political, not technical reasons. I am certain an exemption has been made for this 787 visit
42 jayspilot : with regards to wide bodies and short runways keep in mind that the whatever big wide body jet you pick from the inventory it is designed to fly upwar
43 BoeingGuy : Off-topic, but you should see a lightly loaded Boeing test flight 777-300ER or 777-200LR takeoff. That's 115,000 pounds of thrust on each engine and
44 gatorman96 : I do, but tell me again why Delta flew 767's to DCA? I took the date from the OP and didn't think twice about it. Either way, point was made...[Edite
45 Post contains links wlwjr : 4. 1 flight landed on the 20th to make up the early departure on the 21st, while 3 flights landed prior to afternoon that day. I was there for all of
46 AA94 : Boeing official press release says that the aircraft will be visiting DCA. Makes no mention of any other DC area airport, so it's safe to assume that
47 Post contains links wlwjr : washingtonian (Reply 38):Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 37): Why is P-56 split into two areas? The small circle is the Vice President's official residence. S
48 hiflyer : grew up in dc...and worked DCA during the early 70's...both EA/UA/NA wanted widebodies at DCA...EA and UA went so far to each modify a gate to handle
49 Post contains links wlwjr : Here is an image of an AA MD-80 using every bit of runway 1 on July 29, 2011. http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyerphoto/7071536973/in/photostream Walter
50 wlwjr : I have never been able to confirm the UA DC-10 test flights into DCA and have never spoken to any witnesses. The EA A300s passengers were always FAA
51 contrails : Wow! A lot has happened since I moved. Thanks for the update. Ok, thanks. I had a few takeoffs in DC-9s that made the runway seem a whole lot shorter
52 Post contains images gigneil : Its happened quite a bit before, just since. During one of the snowstorms earlier in the decade. Except they ARE allowed, any time you want. Just goo
53 sunrisevalley : According to PIANO-X a 787 with the equivalent of 50-passengers aboard , for a sector distance of 2200nm ( say DCA-PAE with ~40k winds on the nose ) w
54 capitalflyer : 787 to DCA is purely public relations and political. They want to show Congress what a pretty airplane they bought for all the money Boeing got. Plus
55 capitalflyer : Here's a question, there isn't much space at DCA to hardstand planes. Where are they going to stick it?
56 C680 : I assume they will park it over in front of Signature. Tons of room. That's a huge ramp. IIRC when the UA DC-10 diverted to DCA due to minimum fuel t
57 rivervisual : Its going to park on the hardstand area across from the Coast Guard hangars. If they wanted they could park it in a way that it could power out and n
58 Viscount724 : DC-10s (AA, UA, National) and L-1011s (DL, TWA, Eastern) were also used extensively at LGA at one time. Both were designed specifically to meet carri
59 Post contains images wlwjr : Absolutely and a good point they all used to regularly use LGA and were designed with LGA in mind. I was keeping it simple with the 767 example. Alth
60 wlwjr : Capitalflyer, That sums it up perfectly! Walter
61 wlwjr : Most of the Washington area aviation photographers are going to be scattered across the area from IAD, to the Wilson Bridge, Hains Point, to maybe th
62 Post contains links 71Zulu : Had a good headwind, but this only looks like about 3,000 feet and is a revenue flight, http://youtu.be/nUpScNgvgj4
63 Post contains images PGNCS : Incorrect. Ops specs I have operated under have contained authorization to operate the 767 into DCA. I have never personally done it, though I have f
64 Post contains images wlwjr : I had mentioned the above, and we had some great follow-up replies and comments, but! It always paid to check NOTAMs as I was reminded by a UA dispat
65 tdscanuck : I just ran the numbers...a 747-8 can get out of DCA runway 1 (Standard day, including obstacles) no problem...with enough fuel to go well beyond CONU
66 Post contains images seabosdca : I'd run through a brick wall to be at Gravelly Point for that takeoff (provided the wind was cooperating).
67 Post contains images bikerthai : Agreed. Boeing periodically bring their hardware to DC for display. Typically it would be some military equipment for the US Arm Forces. "they" as in
68 D L X : I know right? Ever since the Legal Sea Foods closed, that place is a dump. There are lots of A320 ops at DCA. Is it really that much of a hassle gett
69 Post contains links kgaiflyer : Hmmm. Getting awfully crowded (don't forget about the joggers, the bikers, and the queued limo drivers) . I'm going to try Bolling AFB directly acros
70 washingtonian : If so, I wonder why they brought it in for a testing flight in December 2008...Just to get the ground staff up to speed?
71 D L X : Can you get on base if you are not military? Also, good photography can be had at East Potomac Park, if you're going to be across the river.
72 Post contains images bikerthai : I was questioning the comment about "the bought" part? Did congress buy the airplane? Or was the post about subsidies? And if it was about subsidies,
73 PGNCS : Funny guy! I like Legal Sea Foods, too. I have traditionally found my LSF needs met in BOS (though I don't go there much recently, either.) DCA isn't
74 MSN007 : That is Walter indeed. Also, he will be wearing blue shorts.
75 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Depends on 'who you know.'
76 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : 764s were also regular visitors to LGA. Not on again off ain but just about every day. Not anymore but I can tell you with certainty that ASA sent 20
77 GoBoeing : It is for all those reasons that I like going into DCA! Something different!
78 wlwjr : Re: 767 Then why the live [with pax] proving run on December 9, 2008 prior to the Obama Inauguration 4 flights? I had a conversation with DCA Ops tha
79 wlwjr : Which is why on one really bad March afternoon a few years ago there were 18 go-arounds....YES 18! while I was there for the afternoon. The winds at
80 tdscanuck : It's not about customs; DCA has special security provisions after 9/11. Only certain airports can send flights to DCA. Tom.
81 Post contains images Viscount724 : There was a daily DL 764 LGA-ATL for a couple of years. There are quite a few 764 photos at LGA in the database, almost all dated 2003 to 2005.
82 capitalflyer : Yup. Subsidies and tax breaks. I believe EADS or somebody in Europe is suing the U.S. alleging anti-competitive subsidies by U.S. to Boeing (please,
83 FlyASAGuy2005 : 26 You're actually right. I think the lone 764 post 2006 (and prior to them converting to international) was the departure that got into ATL around 7
84 gigneil : But there's not one. Interesting. I was nearly positive at least a couple had landed before. Certainly a DC-10 and some A300s have. NS
85 lat41 : I wonder where the best viewing location will be once the aircraft is positioned on the ground at DCA? Also are the West Coast operations from DCA oft
86 ERJ170 : Just a side question.. Is there any plans for it to go to RDU?
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