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Future Of The A380?  
User currently offlineSWALUV From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 113 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 22520 times:

Hi,

First Time Posting on the site. As I was browsing around, I came across this:

"The break-even for the A380 was initially supposed to be reached by selling 270 units, but due to the delays and the falling exchange rate of the US dollar, it increased to 420 units."

With the price of 1 A380 costing about 389.9 million dollars, I have a few questions.

- Will we see Airbus ever make there break-even point?
- With the rising cost of fuel prices, will we see any more orders for the A380?
- Will we see a new version (maybe a NEO) of the A380?
- When will the cost of fuel, maintenance, crews, etc. be to much for the airlines and the A380?
- What ( if anything) will replace the A380?
- And will a A380F be introduced after all order were canceled by the airlines?

Thanks
ps: Website - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A380

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePhxA340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 891 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 22082 times:

I think the A380 best days are yet to come, its still a new aircraft that is earning a good reputation. As the world economies begin to finally turn around I think more airlines will begin to order it. I am still a little nervous that EK represents a huge portion of the order book. If something were to happen to them then I who knows ?

User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 22053 times:

With the scale of worldwide airtravel growth given that millions and millions of people are rising from poverty to the middle class around the world I think that the A380 will be in demand, huge demand. Furthermore the A380-900 will be in demand.

User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3940 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 21949 times:

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):


- Will we see Airbus ever make there break-even point?
- With the rising cost of fuel prices, will we see any more orders for the A380?
- Will we see a new version (maybe a NEO) of the A380?
- When will the cost of fuel, maintenance, crews, etc. be to much for the airlines and the A380?
- What ( if anything) will replace the A380?
- And will a A380F be introduced after all order were canceled by the airlines?

* Yes
* Yes
* Yes we will se the 900 version of the A 380. Don't know about a NEO
* I think the A380 is a cost and fuel effective aircraft. Most likely we will see an even further effeciancy in future versions of the A380.
* An aircraft that is of the same size as the A380 and that goes in mach 2  
* Airbus had plans on offering a freighter version of the A380. However this has been put on hold. Considering that they have actually thought about a freighter version, I am also sure that they have a solution to deal with the cockpit issue. I am sure there will be a freighter version sometime down the line.


User currently offlineSeJoWa From United States of America, joined May 2006, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 21912 times:

Of course we will see more orders: it sits alone at the bottom of an open-ended capacity pyramid, and offers compelling economics to boot.

The question is, will demand be enough to guarantee presently planned build rates? Or how low can Airbus take monthly output and (in time) not lose money on every plane?


User currently onlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2188 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 21900 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 5):
Airbus had plans on offering a freighter version of the A380. However this has been put on hold. Considering that they have actually thought about a freighter version, I am also sure that they have a solution to deal with the cockpit issue. I am sure there will be a freighter version sometime down the line.

Their cockpit solution is simple...no nose loading, just like all commercial freighters with the exception of the 747. I'm not entirely convinced that we will see an A380F, at least not with the performance it offered the first time around.


User currently offlineDaysleeper From UK - England, joined Dec 2009, 841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 21888 times:

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see Airbus ever make there break-even point?

Without a doubt. Its estimated it will have repaid its production costs by 2015 and I'd estimate it will have repaid it's total project costs by the end of the decade.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- With the rising cost of fuel prices, will we see any more orders for the A380?

Absolutely.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see a new version (maybe a NEO) of the A380?

Its a fairly popular belief around here that Airbus will offer a stretched version with TrentXWB 'donks'

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- When will the cost of fuel, maintenance, crews, etc. be to much for the airlines and the A380?

Right after every other commercial airline becomes too costly to operate.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
And will a A380F be introduced after all order were canceled by the airlines?

Eventually.


User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 21859 times:

Yes. It will sell the predicted numbers in various iterations.

It's having teething problems (still) but lets not forget how advanced the aircraft is. Airbus are making improvements all the time, the latest being the increase in weight (the R variant)?. Then there are the engines with talk about the Trent XWB being a possible candidate for putting on the wing of the 380 and saving more money for the airlines...

I have no doubt that the A380 will be here for years to come. So too the 747... there is and will continue to be demand for large aircraft such as the 380.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 21519 times:

Rising fuel costs help the case for the A380. It carries people more efficiently over longer distances.

User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13114 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 21029 times:

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):

- Will we see Airbus ever make there break-even point?
- With the rising cost of fuel prices, will we see any more orders for the A380?
- Will we see a new version (maybe a NEO) of the A380?
- When will the cost of fuel, maintenance, crews, etc. be to much for the airlines and the A380?
- What ( if anything) will replace the A380?
- And will a A380F be introduced after all order were canceled by the airlines?


As to 'break even', that may be more murky but if the same airlines that buy the A380 for their particular needs, they may be more likely to buy other Airbus a/c so the slight loss on the A380 may be offset by sales of other models. WIth many major airports capped as to number of flights allowed, some airlines may have no practical alternative to buy more A 380's so the 'break even' point may be reached or surpassed.

The A380 will probably be the biggest pax aircraft we may see due to practical limits on airport infrastructure, although we may see some 'stretch' or high coach capacity models. We could see a version with more advanced materials in their structure, improved engines, as become more cost practical, reduce weight and thus fuel use as long-term oil will only go up much higher. Who knows what will 'replace' it - look at the 747 still selling over 40 years after it's intro.

The costs of operating the A380 may be less important than the reality of severely slot controlled airports throughout the world.

As to a freighter, it may become the best choice for some freight airliners, as with pax ones, to deal with airports that are slot controlled, have strict curfews, to operate fewer flights on the highest demand routes thus reducing overall ops costs..


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 20950 times:

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- And will a A380F be introduced after all order were canceled by the airlines?

How much farther in the future do we have for this?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinedarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1363 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 20721 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):

- And will a A380F be introduced after all order were canceled by the airlines?

How much farther in the future do we have for this?

Theoretically forever. The real question is whether an F version will be a true F or a P2F conversion. I'm fairly certain that if there is an F, it will be one or the other, but not both. I say that given the developmental/production (dedicated F) or certification/conversion (P2F) costs involved, and the relatively small number of frames in the market.

But in any case, I do not see why there would need to be a dead-line. Even if there is only ever a P2F made, the 380, like most LH & ULH AC have a relatively low cycle count per age.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30989 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 20189 times:
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Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see Airbus ever make there break-even point?

I figure it has a good chance. Within a few years Airbus should be able to sell an A380-800 for what it cost them to build, so at least the red ink will stop accumulating then and they can start to "recover" the costs to date (and I use quotes because Airbus has already paid those bills, so it is not a case of them having to break even).



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- With the rising cost of fuel prices, will we see any more orders for the A380?

Probably.



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see a new version (maybe a NEO) of the A380?

We'll see continued improvements and probably an 80m length A380-900.



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- When will the cost of fuel, maintenance, crews, etc. be to much for the airlines and the A380?

The real "spoiler" will be consumers no longer being able to afford to travel due to not having the disposable income.



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- What ( if anything) will replace the A380?

Yes. Probably a Blended Wing Body. But I don't expect to see the A380 superseded for many decades.



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- And will a A380F be introduced after all order were canceled by the airlines?

I do not believe we will see a new-build A380 freighter.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10031 posts, RR: 96
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 19633 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
I figure it has a good chance. Within a few years Airbus should be able to sell an A380-800 for what it cost them to build, so at least the red ink will stop accumulating then and they can start to "recover" the costs to date (and I use quotes because Airbus has already paid those bills, so it is not a case of them having to break even).

If I can just offer a point here - I suspect that Airbus are already making A380's that "sold" for more than "cost", but won't bring in profits because they have delay penalties affecting the revenue stream. By 2015, these aircraft will be out of the production queue

Rgds


User currently offlineSchorschNG From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 18382 times:

The A380 is large enough - especially the -900 - to not to mix up with anything that can be done sinple circular fuselage. So any B777-10X-ER will not touch the A380, at least not the -900.
Airframe-wise the A380 is close to the optimum, slightly more span would have helped.
New engines may come any time it seems reasonable.

I think the A380 has a good future, but think long-term. It is not the manager's aircraft though, doesn't generate bombastic profits from day one. But which aircraft ever did?



From a structural standpoint, passengers are the worst possible payload. [Michael Chun-Yung Niu]
User currently offlineEricAY05 From Finland, joined Sep 2010, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 17993 times:

How about an A380 Combi? With the size of the A380 (especially the -900) you could carry the equivalent of a, let's say, cargo 767 and a passenger 767 all in one plane. Could work for KLM and carriers with more significant cargo fleets.

User currently offlineSQ22 From Germany, joined Feb 2012, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 17301 times:

Quoting EricAY05 (Reply 23):
How about an A380 Combi? With the size of the A380 (especially the -900) you could carry the equivalent of a, let's say, cargo 767 and a passenger 767 all in one plane. Could work for KLM and carriers with more significant cargo fleets.

Are you thinking about something like cargo on the lower and passenger on the upper deck? Interesting idea, but would there be need for such a bird?


User currently offlineEricAY05 From Finland, joined Sep 2010, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16837 times:

Quoting SQ22 (Reply 24):

Yes, exactly. KLM seems to like the 747 Combi. I would imagine a plane like this could be perfect for cargo heavy routes where ailines use the smaller widebodies for passenger transportation. Unfortunately I don't have any examples of this kind of routes, but I'm pretty sure they exist.


User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3940 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15169 times:

Quoting SQ22 (Reply 24):
Are you thinking about something like cargo on the lower and passenger on the upper deck? Interesting idea, but would there be need for such a bird?

I'm thinking more in the way of cargo in the rear half of the first deck and passengers in the front lower deck and second floor.


User currently offlinemacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1042 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15004 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 15):
add in the USA airports where there is little to NO infrastructure to handle them and a lack of resources or equipment?

That for me is more a case against US infrastructure than against the bird. Do you say the US is falling behind all other regions in the world in terms of development, growth and strategic planning?



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4737 posts, RR: 39
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14904 times:
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Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 8):
Its a fairly popular belief around here that Airbus will offer a stretched version with TrentXWB 'donks'

It is, and I am one of them. But after reading what RR was proposing for a possible B777-X, it could be that a derivative of that engine would make it to the A380.  .

All in all over a lifespan of at least 40 years, and the A380 is only 5 years in service at SQ, it will be a huge success which had a difficult start. Just as the B787.  .


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8017 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14513 times:

I still think there is a chance that UA or DL might consider the A380-800.

The reason is simple: flights to Asia, especially China (PEK, PVG, maybe even CAN), South Korea (ICN) and so on. Both the UA and DL 747-400 fleets are starting to age, and 4-5 years from now both airlines will need to start replace them. Buying the 777-300ER or the future 777X might not be a good idea (since it may end up losing number of seats per flight), and it's unknown how much of a discount Boeing will offer on the 747-8I for fairly substantial order.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14322 times:

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 8):
Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):- Will we see Airbus ever make there break-even point?
Without a doubt. Its estimated it will have repaid its production costs by 2015 and I'd estimate it will have repaid it's total project costs by the end of the decade.


Daysleeper, I don't know where you are getting your numbers from, but I really doubt the A-380 will have repaid production costs by mid decade, and total program costs by the end of the decade. Airbus has yet to sell even one A-380 at a profit, and isn't projected to until your 2015 date, if then. We don't know what the total program costs are, although some have suggested somewhere between E20B and E30B Euros. The current price tag for a new build A-380 is about $390M USD, or about E300M Euros. All of the orders for the A-380 todate have had very heavy discounts, some on the order of 50% or more. My guess is EK is paying less than E120M Euros per airplane, which is a 60% discount, for the 90 airplane order. That looks good for sales, but looks bad to the bean counters as they try to make a profit on that sale....and can't.

At sales discounts this deep, the A-380 program will never break even.

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 8):
Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter): And will a A380F be introduced after all order were canceled by the airlines?
Eventually.

No. You can buy a much more capaible and flexible B-747-8F (current list price of about $333M USD) cheaper, with discounts on top of that. The A-380 may have a future P2F version, but even that is doubtful as you have to custom build all the ground handeling and cargo loading/unlaoding equipment to be able to reach the main and upper decks.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 10):
Rising fuel costs help the case for the A380. It carries people more efficiently over longer distances.

Not when the fuel bill for each flight on an A-380 is approaching $333,000 USD to fill her up. The overall fuel capacity of an A-380 is about 83,200 USG. At the current Jet-A price in the US around $4 per USG that is about $333,000. If every seat on a 525 seat A-380 sold for $2000 it would mean the flight would gross about $1,000,000, minus the fuel of $333K is $667K, then minus crew costs, maintenance, landing and parking fees, ground handling fees, other employees costs, and lease or loan payments you quickly get near zero dollars for each flight. That's on a full flight, and not every flight will be full. The A-380 has a very high break even load factor. You can make a profit on each flight with a load factor at or above 50% if fuel only costs you about $2 per USG.

Finally, the A-380 can only use some 75 airports worldwide. Not all major hubs have invested in all the infastructure the A-380 needs, and with the global economy the way it is now most airports won't do that for a few A-380 flights per day unless the airline who owns the airplane wants to cover those costs.

[Edited 2012-04-14 08:17:51 by srbmod]

User currently offlinemusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14337 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
Not when the fuel bill for each flight on an A-380 is approaching $333,000 USD to fill her up. The overall fuel capacity of an A-380 is about 83,200 USG. At the current Jet-A price in the US around $4 per USG that is about $333,000. If every seat on a 525 seat A-380 sold for $2000 it would mean the flight would gross about $1,000,000, minus the fuel of $333K is $667K, then minus crew costs, maintenance, landing and parking fees, ground handling fees, other employees costs, and lease or loan payments you quickly get near zero dollars for each flight. That's on a full flight, and not every flight will be full. The A-380 has a very high break even load factor. You can make a profit on each flight with a load factor at or above 50% if fuel only costs you about $2 per USG.Finally, the A-380 can only use some 75 airports worldwide. Not all major hubs have invested in all the infastructure the A-380 needs, and with the global economy the way it is now most airports won't do that for a few A-380 flights per day unless the airline who owns the airplane wants to cover those costs.

So based on your calculations, can you sugget which plane can help airlines make money?



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30989 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13415 times:
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Quoting EricAY05 (Reply 23):
How about an A380 Combi?

The economics are not there with the current safety requirement impact. It would be only worse on an A380, since you need to protect two decks, not just one.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
My guess is EK is paying less than E120M Euros per airplane, which is a 60% discount, for the 90 airplane order.

EK's 16th delivery (A6-EDF | MSN 077) was sold to Nimrod Capital LLC on a lease-back deal for USD 234 million (E179 million) in October 2011. This price was for the airframe and did not include engines (which are owned and leased by Commerzbank).

I'm sure EK sold it to Nimrod at a profit, but I imagine it wasn't E50M.  


25 darksnowynight : There are a few problems with this. First off, any Ops department will ask, straight away, why in the hell are you maxing out your fuel tanks? If you
26 Flighty : The A380 will repay its project costs, but I can't see how it happens before 2020. Airbus has dedicated a monstrous amount of money to A380 with absol
27 Flighty : That doesn't really affect the real accounting of the project's success, which we might do more accurately on a.net than Airbus is willing to do.
28 ER757 : That's a moving target. Costs associated with production range from labor to materials to the electricity to keep the lights on in the factory. That
29 Post contains links Daysleeper : This is just one of many articles which back up my claim This isn’t strictly correct, I agree in that it will be 2015 before the A380 is able to sho
30 Stitch : That article, as with the others, refers to "production break even" - as in the money Airbus receives at delivery is equal to the money Airbus spent
31 Daysleeper : Aye, I understand that and made it clear further up the thread that 2015 is the production break even not the program break even. And although perhap
32 babybus : As they say 'It takes an A380 to compete with an A380' Since A380s exist already and operate profitably there can only be more in the future. A freigh
33 yyzala : I think the real question that needs to be asked is how many A380s will be sold beyond break even. The reason A380 has not being doing so well is due
34 PanAm1971 : As someone in business... looking at the A380 alone-without considering the aircraft's impact on perceptions of Airbus and it's other products-may be
35 solarflyer22 : I'm surprised at the emphasis on this thread for "break even" when in my mind the real goal is to...make money! A lot of it. I'm sure it was 5-10 bill
36 Daysleeper : Although I believe Airbus would have become the world’s leading commercial aircraft manufacture based solely upon the success of the A320 and A330
37 Stitch : Airbus is going to make plenty of money off the A380: from deliveries, from upgrades, from conversions, from maintenance/spares, etc. And as PanAm197
38 IMissPiedmont : If the breakeven point is 270 aircraft I can't see breakeven ever happening. When was the last order placed and how many firm orders/deliveries are th
39 brilondon : I don't see much in the U.S. for the future of the A380. With no U.S. based airlines ordering the A380, and out side of the major airports of which th
40 art : Welcome to a.net! The figure of 420 (from Airbus) dates back a few years. As far as I know, 420 was the last figure Airbus gave. With the slower than
41 rwessel : There have been 253 firm orders, 72 or so have been delivered. There were 19 new firm orders last year.
42 SWALUV : I heard a rumor that United is looking at the A380 from another thread. Thanks
43 WingedMigrator : Break even is relevant before you launch a program, circa 2000. After that, you execute the program, however badly that may be. The decision to conti
44 Mortyman : They have 253 firm orders + 41 options. 72 Deliveries.
45 PhxA340 : You mention this in pretty much every A380 , 787, A350, and 747-8i thread. I would say that many successful, profitable, and "prestigious" airlines w
46 Flighty : Disagree. This was an active disagreement in 2000-2005 with passionate argument on both sides. It is important to highlight who was right and who was
47 darksnowynight : Perhaps, but it is an accepted standard for OEMs to write down sunk costs. Boeing either has or will do this with the 787.
48 by738 : Im in the negative camp, I cant see there being any large significant orders coming from a brand new customer.
49 TheRedBaron : DId Boeing planned the 787 delay debacle, fire and all the crap in the development stage? Did they approach the program unprofessionally? DId they to
50 Flighty : Absolutely. 787 and A380 timelines both were laughable. And, each company paid dearly in penalties to customers. This was despite the incorrect denia
51 ozglobal : You may not see where Daysleeper gets his figures, but it's clear where you get yours: they're your "guess", spiced with a well known view on the top
52 zippyjet : Being the optimist, if and when the world economy stabilizes improves the 380 and the 787 will do just fine.
53 kanban : The question remains, The A380 can service only 60 airports today and I'm not aware (but soon will be) of any plans to increase that number. So what i
54 gigneil : If there were plans, why would you be aware? NS
55 Boeing773ER : I wish Airbus all the luck with selling the plane, but I don't see that many new customers needing it. It is just too much of a risk to operate it too
56 kanban : The inference is if I'm wrong the A.neter's will set me right in the next 24 hours.
57 Stitch : I think we need to define "service". zeke and gemuser have posted often enough about how the A380 can operate out of just about any field that can ta
58 PHX787 : Why would DL, JL, and UA need the 380? None of those airlines have the capacity for A380 routes.
59 Post contains images WingedMigrator : 60 airports. Let's say 2 A380s on the ground at any given time. That's 120 A380s on the ground. These things typically average 16 hours in the air, o
60 Boeing773ER : That's why I said I doubt any of them will order, but if any new customers would be them I think these would be the most likely. DL and UA both opera
61 gemuser : Firstly - got a source? I can name 3 that are A380 ready or are in the process of getting so, that do not have an immediate likely hood of A380 servi
62 Post contains links kanban : I wish I could recall where I first saw this, however I believe it implied that it was a regulatory issue.. http://www.airportsinternational.com...78
63 gigneil : I don't think any of us know for certain, the sources vary. What I do know for certain is no airport, not even ATL, has declined to make the modifica
64 astuteman : I can agree with that. The break-even point is clearly north of 450 frames. Airbus will be pushed to deliver that many frames before 2020 no matter h
65 Post contains images EPA001 : I think you have put that into the correct perspective. (As always ) The definition A380 ready is here as flexible as someone wants it to be. But in
66 kanban : Went Googling to find the actual number and found several variations of the release one implying the 60 number (and that one looked to have been edit
67 astuteman : For what its worth, whatever the number is (and I believe it to be north of 120), I think that history has already shown us that if the demand for A3
68 Burkhard : - Will we see Airbus ever make there break-even point? This isn't so important as soon as the A380 contributes positively to the cash flow, but I woul
69 kanban : No, the constraint was from the article that stated in error that there were only 60 certified airports, once that was resolved, I see no constraints
70 Post contains images cmf : Why? It is not as if an airline will start a route with an A380. Seems to me it is much riskier to put a 250 - 300 passenger plane on a new route tha
71 N14AZ : ATL being a good example. That being said didn't EK plan to send A 380s to Brazil (don't remember where)? I read that the stopped this plans because
72 PHXA340 : Beautifully put. Airbus was never intending for the A380 to be a project like a house flipper than expects to make a quick buck. Airplanes are design
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