Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What Other Flying Can OO Do For AS/QX?  
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3432 posts, RR: 5
Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

Since OO seems to be providing a good service to AS flying those routes that are a bit too long for a Q400, but not enough for a 734 or 73G capacity wise. I've mentioned it in another thread, why doesn't QQ also start fling routes AS/QX have dropped or are marginal currently? Places like LMT, OTH, PDT, IDA, TWF, RDD, ACV and even adding some like SLE. They can use the EMB-120's, or eventual replacement. I think QX/AS shouldn't forget it's roots serving small cities here in the NW with F27's. If they hadn't had the problems with the 328 they did, I could see QX flying to most of those places now.


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6101 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Thread starter):
why doesn't QQ also start fling routes AS/QX have dropped or are marginal currently

Because Reno Air has been dead over a decade now.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):
Because Reno Air has been dead over a decade now.

You're right about that. Rmember when OO's code was QG, and they changed it to OO after buying Sunaire


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2806 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):
Because Reno Air has been dead over a decade now

Just for the record I did mean OO. Thanks for pointing it out.  



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2726 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Thread starter):
They can use the EMB-120's, or eventual replacement

What is their "eventual" replacement for the EMB120? Looks like their answer has been the CR2 in places like CDC.


User currently offlineKWBL From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2672 times:

I always thought once QX went all Q-400 that OO could operate an "express" product for AS and be far more effective than UA is currently. Now that they have a relationship with the CR7 flying, I wonder if it even on the radar. My home airport, SLE, was really close to getting OO here with 4 EM2 flights per day to SEA. It eventually died because of some computer reservation issues (not sure what they were but the idea was that OO was going to do it at-risk but link to the majors in SEA). My belief then was that it would be far better, and increase the odds of success for both OO and SLE, if there was an AS tie-in. I know me and my family would account for 50+ trips per year! All of those cities listed above would benefit tremendously and AS would further strengthen it's hubs at SEA and PDX,

User currently offlinecic777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 4):
What is their "eventual" replacement for the EMB120? Looks like their answer has been the CR2 in places like CDC.

I'm curious to know that as well. It will tell us a lot about their plans on which cities will get discontinued. OO used to have a diagram on their website that showed the phaseout schedule for the E120. I keep reading here and elsewhere that the CR2 isn't a very economical aircraft either, but I think a lot depends on the mission the carrier chooses for the aircraft. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I, too, would like to see QX get back to their roots a little bit. But alas I guess they seem to think bigger is better.


User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2561 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Thread starter):
I think QX/AS shouldn't forget it's roots serving small cities here in the NW with F27's. If they hadn't had the problems with the 328 they did, I could see QX flying to most of those places now.


We had Dash 8-200s and those were WAY better planes than the 328s and the trip cost not much different. The bottom line is the bottom line. It may be sexy or historical to serve these markets, but that doesn't necessarily pay the freight. We would have left those markets anyway. The AS people on this forum will tell you that AS has been very disciplined on the routes they fly and that those routes must financially contribute to the network - regardless if its AS, QX, OO or KS. My guess is that there are few money losing "strategic" routes left at AS. 30 seat planes in the best of world give you a bust even to maybe a 2% margin. That's the best world and far below the 10% AS likes to talk about. With fuel prices where they are, AS will not be (likely - never say never) adding more 30 seat regional flying anytime soon (in the "Lower 48"). Sorry  


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting KWBL (Reply 5):
I always thought once QX went all Q-400 that OO could operate an "express" product for AS and be far more effective than UA is currently. Now that they have a relationship with the CR7 flying, I wonder if it even on the radar. My home airport, SLE, was really close to getting OO here with 4 EM2 flights per day to SEA. It eventually died because of some computer reservation issues (not sure what they were but the idea was that OO was going to do it at-risk but link to the majors in SEA). My belief then was that it would be far better, and increase the odds of success for both OO and SLE, if there was an AS tie-in. I know me and my family would account for 50+ trips per year! All of those cities listed above would benefit tremendously and AS would further strengthen it's hubs at SEA and PDX,

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking when I posted this thread. I do understand the logistics, certainly not all of them, but the basics. AS/QX is doing what all emerging carriers do when they get bigger, forget their roots, forget the areas and places that helped make them what they are currently. I love AS/QX, I have flown tons of times with Chester but there is more to community than dollars. I guess I am too old to forget JT before QX, and how our part of the world had decent air service to many more destinations than it does now. I agree a SLE-SEA flight would work better than SLE-SLC, I think at less than an hour drive, PDX is too much competition to make SLE viable, too bad IMHO.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2200 times:

SLE is similar to OLM (Olympia, WA)....too close to a major airport for scheduled service to be successful. It's been tried in the past out of both and you see the results today....nada. I think as both cities grow you might see another attempt someday as it would be extremely convenient for those living nearby. I think you'll see service to PAE first before you see SLE or OLM.

As to the original post, I could see OO on SEA/ PDX-SLC. It bugs me that AS won't start service on their own to SLC due to stepping on DL's toes. This might be a foot in the door that doesn't create as much controversy as taking mainline jets into SLC would.



Next trip...DL RJ SEA-LAX/AM LAX-MEX Dec 23
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2166 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 8):
AS/QX is doing what all emerging carriers do when they get bigger, forget their roots, forget the areas and places that helped make them what they are currently.

I disagree.

A) You're assuming AS/QX is forgetting their roots. I think this is completely false and the decision to pull out of some of those smaller stations was not taken lightly. I had heard that some of the stations they tried everything they could for a couple years to make them profitable to no avail. When the time came to shut them down they offered the affected employees other positions in the company and gave the cities ample notice.

B) There seems to be an assumption that these routes were ever profitable. AS/QX 15 years ago was a different airline in the sense that it was accepted that you would lose money on some routes. That no longer is the case. Just because a Q200 was getting filled up didn't make it profitable. But 15 years ago jet fuel also cost nothing. It's just not the same world anymore and airlines can't afford to hold onto routes for the sake of it. Can you imagine if AS/QX went bankrupt and someone found out that it was because they held onto these loss making routes? They would be blasted by shareholders, the media and a.net people alike.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5705 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

I'm curious to see where the SkyWest experiment goes with AS. I can't help but think that AS will expand on it if passenger feedback is positive and the numbers pan out. For now, I guess we wait and see.

I'll be flying AlaskaSkyWest this Sunday to Long Beach, which is a CR7 route we've flown in the past on QX. Our return flight via PDX/QX was downgauged to a CR2, though, so thankfully Alaska called today and "bumped" us to the nonstop on a CR7. I enjoy these planes as well as Long Beach and am looking forward to trying out SkyWest for the first time.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6101 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1931 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 11):
Our return flight via PDX/QX was downgauged to a CR2, though, so thankfully Alaska called today and "bumped" us to the

That's impossible, as QX never had any.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 10):
I disagree.

A) You're assuming AS/QX is forgetting their roots. I think this is completely false and the decision to pull out of some of those smaller stations was not taken lightly. I had heard that some of the stations they tried everything they could for a couple years to make them profitable to no avail. When the time came to shut them down they offered the affected employees other positions in the company and gave the cities ample notice.

B) There seems to be an assumption that these routes were ever profitable. AS/QX 15 years ago was a different airline in the sense that it was accepted that you would lose money on some routes. That no longer is the case. Just because a Q200 was getting filled up didn't make it profitable. But 15 years ago jet fuel also cost nothing. It's just not the same world anymore and airlines can't afford to hold onto routes for the sake of it. Can you imagine if AS/QX went bankrupt and someone found out that it was because they held onto these loss making routes? They would be blasted by shareholders, the media and a.net people alike.

From my original posting, I was not suggesting QX and the Q400 would go in to these airports, I was suggesting OO could go in with smaller planes to do some at risk flying for QX/AS. I think OO fying for UA here in the NW would be better suited to flying for QX/AS.

From what I've read here, and elsewhere, personal experience and trip reports, QQ's flying for AS/QX is a hit, and why not see if OO would help open some of these places back up.

From what I've read here, and elsewhere again, QX/AS was unable to make the aforementioned routes work on Q400's and when they Q200 went away, so did those cities. I agree running a one third full Q400 on any route is suicidal.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1872 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 11):
Our return flight via PDX/QX was downgauged to a CR2, though, so thankfully Alaska called today and "bumped" us to the

That's impossible, as QX never had any.

Sure it's possible. QX isn't doing the CRJ flying anymore. OO is.


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6101 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1854 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
QQ's flying for AS/QX

There's that code again...

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
QX isn't doing the CRJ flying anymore. OO is.
QX has never done CR2 flying, and OO has only done so early on until they could get the other CR7 online.

[Edited 2012-04-17 06:34:46]


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1813 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 15):
QX has never done CR2 flying, and OO has only done so early on until they could get the other CR7 online.

The CR2 still gets substituted every once in a while when necessary.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
From what I've read here, and elsewhere again, QX/AS was unable to make the aforementioned routes work on Q400's and when they Q200 went away, so did those cities. I agree running a one third full Q400 on any route is suicidal.

I know what you're saying. I don't necessarily think those routes were profit makers even with the Q200. I think what did them in was finally moving to the Q400 and the losses doubled or tripled.


User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 669 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1758 times:

I'm guessing he meant CR2 to PDX then Q400 to SEA.

Like hatbutton says, the CR2 is still substituted. In the past few months, i've seen them a couple of times overnighting in SEA on Horizon's ramp.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5705 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12):
That's impossible, as QX never had any.

Sorry I wasn't more clear. See:

Quoting yeelep (Reply 17):
I'm guessing he meant CR2 to PDX then Q400 to SEA.

Exactly.   I meant to say that the CR7 LGB-PDX (connecting to a QX DH4 to SEA) was downgraded to the CR2, so we are now going nonstop.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

So are these places doomed to driving sometimes 100's of miles to catch a plane someplace? I expect SeaPort to be gone from OTH as soon as the money runs out, and I'd like to see an airline like JT to start up again, covering the cities that have been dropped, tie in with AS and connect these places once again to PDX or SEA for connections.


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Other Airlines Does DAL Do Mx For At The TOC posted Sat Aug 18 2001 11:01:14 by Srbmod
SJC -- Future Hub For AS/QX? posted Fri Oct 22 2010 09:22:34 by Airport
What Are We Going To Do For The Big 100,000? posted Thu Aug 3 2000 18:19:16 by RWally
How Much Flying Will OO End Up Doing For AS? posted Wed Sep 28 2011 05:04:27 by RWA380
What Will The 320NEO Do For The Y1? posted Wed Jan 12 2011 04:01:00 by abba
What If AS, QX, F9, And AA Sort Of Merged-ish? posted Sat Apr 17 2010 19:42:37 by Airport
What Will Cfrp Planes Do For The Cash Flow? posted Fri Jan 22 2010 09:33:08 by EA772LR
Any New Service Plans For AS And/or QX? posted Tue Mar 10 2009 13:50:15 by Wedgetail737
What Other Businesses Do UAL, AMR, Et Al Own? posted Wed Jun 13 2007 23:55:25 by Coal
NW & KE, What Can You Do? posted Thu Nov 23 2006 14:10:53 by Anair80