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Strange Approach To DCA  
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11569 posts, RR: 52
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9239 times:

I was at the baseball game today, when a US Airways A319 flew over the park, coming from the NE. The ballpark is about a mile south of the Capitol, which I know is a restricted flying zone.

When I got home, I found this flight path on flightaware.com:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE2037

So, is this a violation of DC airspace? A bunch of other fans noticed the plane and showed their concern as well. Any thoughts?


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22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9218 times:

It looks like he landed on 22... never seen someone do that.

User currently offlineplateman From United States of America, joined May 2007, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9201 times:

I was biking along the Potomac today and they were doing test flights of Air Force white top copters ... they were flying real low along the river all day ... I saw planes on river visual, but maybe that had something to do it


"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
User currently offlinewagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 517 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9086 times:
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If you zoom in on the flightaware track and switch to sectional view, it appears they skirted just southeast around P56.


I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8972 times:

I used to fly that approach to Rwy 22 all the time, although it was before 9/11 and it was mainly used for turboprops. Its been along time, but I think it was direct KRANT then follow the Annacostia visual to 22. If he was in an A319, I can understand why he was close to the ball park. The left hand turn to 22 was real tight (and fun) so I would want to be as far north as I could be to allow as much space for the turn as possible. Even then, your time lined up for final is measured in seconds.


My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8842 times:

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
It looks like he landed on 22... never seen someone do that.

Me neither. Why would an A-319 land on 22???


User currently offlineamwest2united From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8789 times:
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Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
It looks like he landed on 22...

Maybe it was a visual to 22 Circle to land 19. I have seen that before on the Props and RJ's.

[Edited 2012-04-15 18:13:30]


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User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11569 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8776 times:

Looking at the landings just prior and just after this one, it appears that this was the first flight that landed to the south after the flow had been to the north.

Another poster has also started a thread on this, so apparently, this flight startled more than just myself.



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User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8658 times:

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 1):
It looks like he landed on 22... never seen someone do that.

I have. Usually an RJ, never an A319.

Can you actually approach the airport from the East?

NS


User currently offlineBigSaabowski From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8582 times:

Quoting amwest2united (Reply 6):

Maybe it was a visual to 22 Circle to land 19. I have seen that before on the Props and RJ's.

He did land on 19. You can listen to the ATC audio on LIVEATC by pulling up the 1830z archive for today and going to the 29:30 mark. He was cleared for the visual 19 and told to follow the Anacostia and avoid P-56.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 8):

Can you actually approach the airport from the East?

Yes. The Anacostia approach was used much more often when there were no restrictions on General Aviation into DCA. The airlines also occasionally came in that way.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8547 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 5):
Me neither. Why would an A-319 land on 22???

I have seen props land on 22 but never a mainline jet. Never mind, the plane landed on 19. As another thread stated:

Quoting newyork355 (Thread starter):
My friends and I were on my roof today in downtown DC and saw the oddest thing ever; an aircraft was approaching (and subsequently landed) on runway 19 at DCA but did not approach via the Potomac, but appeared to approach from the NE, over flying SW DC before making a sharp left and safely landing. Is this approach normal? I had never seen this before. Also, I flew into DC on a US Airways A319 and landed on runway 15 a couple of weeks ago. I never knew the larger commercial jets that flew into DCA used these smaller runways. Any thoughts?
Odd Approach To Runway 19 @ DCA (by newyork355 Apr 15 2012 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2012-04-15 18:55:12]


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinedispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1253 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7796 times:

Quoting plateman (Reply 2):
Air Force white top copters

The Air Force doesnt have White Tops, thats the Marines of HMX-1



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineplateman From United States of America, joined May 2007, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7767 times:

Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 11):
Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 11):
The Air Force doesnt have White Tops, thats the Marines of HMX-1

You my friend are correct, apologies for the mistake. Still an awesome sight to see ... they were doing landing and take-offs at Bolling AFB --- and also flying up the Potomac



"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11569 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6345 times:

Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 9):
He was cleared for the visual 19 and told to follow the Anacostia and avoid P-56.

Well, he certainly was well off the Anacostia by the time he got to the stadium. The stadium sits at the Anacostia near the tidal basin. I was sitting with my back to the Anacostia, so he had to have been at least a half mile off of it. He flew between the stadium and the Capitol.

I assumed that he was heading to the 22, so I'm pretty surprised that he made the full turn to 19. Must have been the best view EVER for the passengers!



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User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6267 times:

I'd still like to know why this happened. Why just for one flight?!!

User currently offlineBigSaabowski From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5710 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 13):
Well, he certainly was well off the Anacostia by the time he got to the stadium. The stadium sits at the Anacostia near the tidal basin. I was sitting with my back to the Anacostia, so he had to have been at least a half mile off of it. He flew between the stadium and the Capitol.

There is no way to follow the Anacostia all the way to 19 and still have any semblance of a stabilized approach . Once you get to RFK, you can just follow 395 (or stay just slightly south of it) all the way to the Potomac. That keeps you clear of P-56.


User currently offlineDash8Driver16 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5545 times:

That looks like a pretty common Approach to 33. I fly that one all the time although usually they keep you a little farther out. fly you south to the bridge turn you around for 33. I have seen 319, 170/175 all version of CRJ and EMB as well as dash's and SAAB's land there. its a pretty awesome approach but I like coming into 15 better you can usually get off before the intersection with 1/19.

User currently offlineusafret From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

The Air Force most certainly have White Tops, they are UH-1Ns out of Andrews, blue body, gold stripe, white top, upgraded UH-1s and they fly the river all the time and do DV runs between Pentagon, Bolling and Andrews. I've flown on one as an incentive. I'm a retired Lt Col with 8 years in the Pentagon on two tours. Other than ICBM missile field UH-1Ns (all gray), Andrews has a few UH-1N DV models still flying.

User currently offlineLuisKMIA From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

No unusual, but I've never seen anything bigger than an E-Jet perform it.

User currently offlinepanova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Probably unrelated, but there have been various military fighters/helicopters in and around National this past week of so, apparently scouting/photographing the route for NASA's 747 hauling the Space Shuttle Discovery on its back to the Air and Space museum at Dulles, tomorrow, Tuesday. Maybe Sunday's patterns at National were affected.

As I understand it, the 747 is scheduled to fly first over Dulles, then come down the river (which way, I don't know) then do a low-level flyover of the Mall, then back to Dulles to land. This is scheduled between 10 and 11 am.

National landing patterns are always subject to the President helicoptering in and out of the White House and special fly-overs for Arlington Cemetery burials. Serveral years ago, parked at Graveley Point, I watched a B-52 come across the River from Andrews and do a beautiful, fairly low-level pass over the Cemetery for the funeral of a VietNam-era B-52 pilot. Very impressive!


User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 563 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

When I started with Eastern it was at DCA, on the ticket counter. The backup shuttle aircraft were Electras having replaced the Connies. I missed flying a Connie by a year or so. CRAP! When I rode the shuttle sometimes we would land on the cross runway coming over the AFB. It use to scare me because I knew it wasn't a long runway and we generally went right to the end. When we landed and the crew reversed the props, the plane shook like it would fall apart. I never liked that aircraft. Four big noisy dirty motors. BTW. I once saw the aircraft used for AF1 land at DCA. Don't know the reason, but there she was.(707)

User currently offlineC680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 15):
There is no way to follow the Anacostia all the way to 19 and still have any semblance of a stabilized approach



Welcome to Washington National.

I've had controllers switch me from Rwy 15 to Rwy 22 on a one mile final.
I've had folks ignore LAHSO and stop in the middle of the intersection when I was in the flare for Rwy 22.
I've done more go-around because folks couldn't clear Rwy 18/36 (now Rwy 1/19) than I can count.

I've also flown the Annacostia approach to Rwy 22, circle Rwy 19. Its a fun, challenging approach that never felt unsafe.

For folks who do most of their flying out of meg hubs with approaches that start 4 states away, 10,000 foot runways and taxi charts that fold out like an accordion, DCA is a nightmare. But if you have good piloting skills, and you can react to changes quickly, DCA is a challenge in a good way. The controllers are some of the best in the country, and they regularly put 10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound sack.

Stabilized approach? Most of the time, yes. Just be ready for the unexpected. DCA keeps you on the edge of your seat, and alert. To me, that makes it very safe.



My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
User currently offlineboeing727 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 955 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

Quoting plateman (Reply 2):
It looks like he landed on 22... never seen someone do that.

I have flown river visual circle to land 22 back in 2006 in an EMB-145...a rather rare occasion, but it does happen.

Boeing727


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