lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10895 posts, RR: 100 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15900 times:
Oh man, just as I was pulled off LAX-FRA duty (never flew...).
ORD would have been high on my 748I list. My firewall blocks the link. Any explination on why the 748I vs. A380 to LAX? I'm excited. I would like to know LH's logic between the 748I and A380 selection for each city.
Are these the correct seat counts?
Seat A380 748I
F 8 8
J 98 80
Y 420 298
Well, LH isn't going to be using F class quantitative demand to decide between the A380 and 748I for a city pair.
The difference in J is only ~20%.
There is a staggering difference of 122 seats for Y. To myself, this implies either variable (seasonal?) business demand for Y with a lack of VFR demand (or low VFR yield) to fill Y.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15678 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1): Any explination on why the 748I vs. A380 to LAX?
Maybe their current schedule might explain it.
During the summer LH has 2 daily 747 flights to LAX from FRA, and during low season (winter) they have 1 daily 747 flight to LAX.
Maybe they need the extra uplift year round that the 748i can provide, but for which the A380 is too big for.
Also bear in mind that 2 747-400s (or 1 748i and 1 744) provide more capacity than 1 A380. That is why they might go for a combination of 748i/744 in the summer, instead of 1 A380 (reduced capacity) or 1 A380 and 1 744 (too much capacity).
g500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 752 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15511 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 2): During the summer LH has 2 daily 747 flights to LAX from FRA, and during low season (winter) they have 1 daily 747 flight to LAX
I think its a matter of time before LH upgrades LAX to A380, at least for the busy season
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15364 times:
Quoting g500 (Reply 3): I think its a matter of time before LH upgrades LAX to A380, at least for the busy season
Yeah, I thought it was a given that they would operate the A380 at least during the summer, and still keep the 2nd daily flight. But I wonder now with the announcement of LAX as a 748i destination.
LAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5085 posts, RR: 48 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14995 times:
Using SeatGuru seat dimensions for LH A380, and assuming similar dimensions for B748, the A380 holds nearly 37% more passengers than B748. Being wider by about 18 inches on main deck , A380 must have wider aisles if both aircraft use the same seats.
ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21043 posts, RR: 60 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14329 times:
Quoting g500 (Reply 3): I think its a matter of time before LH upgrades LAX to A380, at least for the busy season
The 748 makes sense. 748 year round, seasonal second flight 744 for now until more 748s are in service.
Then, further in the future, you might see MUC upgraded to 748 and year round FRA flight go to A380, with second seasonal flight staying at 748. This is in the future, if Y growth requires it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13619 times:
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That's good news.
LAX and ORD, 2 destinations I like flying to. So I have to bid for the IAD, LAX and ORD trips more often
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13165 times:
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Quoting konstantinkoll (Reply 9): Wilco, if you fly FRA-IAD on July 5th, it will be my pleasure to be on board! I'm really looking forward to my first 748 flight
I am looking forward to my first 748i flight as well, but I will for sure not be on it on July 5th, sorry. I am on vacation on that day.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10895 posts, RR: 100 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13027 times:
Which 744 does LH fly to LAX? I see two seat layouts on seatguru:
In some ways, if LH is flying the first type (8/66/270, which I suspect is the case, but I do not know), in particular during the winter, than we have a case where improving J and (to a small extent) Y was the goal. From what I know of the year round market, it seems there is demand for more J. Going from 66 to 80 would be helpful.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 2): That is why they might go for a combination of 748i/744 in the summer, instead of 1 A380 (reduced capacity) or 1 A380 and 1 744 (too much capacity).
Thanks for the input. I forgot about the 2nd daily in the summer. However, I'm suspecting the 748I is for an increase in year round J demand.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 5): Someday an airline may go 11-abreast on Y, in which case A380 could end up with 47% more total seats in LH type layout.
I suspect sooner rather than later. Most Y class passengers are cheaping out. Yes, there is business long haul Y who want more room. Will their employer pay for it?
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 7): The 748 makes sense. 748 year round, seasonal second flight 744 for now until more 748s are in service.
If LH adopts either a rotating 747 strategy or a 'park it for the winter' strategy that makes much sense. Which makes me wonder what they'll do with the A346s. But first LH must decide on the utilization of the remaining 744s.
KLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 122 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12952 times:
Can't wait to fly on it and get to spot it! Great news for us here. During the summer will this flight be DLH 456/457 or DLH 450/451?
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11742 posts, RR: 51 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12896 times:
Assuming the B-747-8I achives all the airframe performance the B-747-8F has achieved in service, how likely is LH to exercise its 20 options with Boeing?
KLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 122 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12868 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12): In some ways, if LH is flying the first type (8/66/270, which I suspect is the case, but I do not know)
LH flies the configuration you are stating, 8/66/270. There are 16 First Class seats but if you fly LH First Class you get one seat for a bed and one seat to eat on, they consider that one seat so it is 8 First Class seats. They just switched over from the 16 seat First Class.
StressedOut From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 69 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12680 times:
I am hoping that DEN will be one of the next destinations. I know that DEN got the proper exemptions from the FAA for the 747-8 to fly there for Lufthansa. They keep changing between a 744 and a A346 but I don't know if that is due to need at DEN or scheduling at other locations. If anybody has any inkling when the 747-8 will come to DEN I would appreciate any insight. When I have flown that route in the past the flights were completely packed so I think the loads are there for a -8.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16941 posts, RR: 57 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days ago) and read 12210 times:
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 11): I am looking forward to my first 748i flight as well, but I will for sure not be on it on July 5th, sorry. I am on vacation on that day.
As FWA stated, QR has not announced QR. A rep said its a potential 787 route, and Bloomberg took it entirely out of context. While QR to Chicago is inevitable, it's still yet to be announced.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10895 posts, RR: 100 Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10689 times:
Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 16): LH flies the configuration you are stating, 8/66/270.
Thank you.
So this change is to improve (mostly) J. Is LAX-FRA have poor yield in Y during the winter? I suspect the answer is 'weak yield.' Thus this is for the J traffic.
To myself, that makes sense to go with the 748I and let those who want to 'cheap out' connect at JFK onto the A380. Either that, or I've over-analyzed and LH just doesn't have enough A380s for LAX today. Even though LAX is my home airport, I would send the A380 to the following airports first: JFK, MIA, JNB, PEK, PVG... oh wait.
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10338 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12): In some ways, if LH is flying the first type (8/66/270, which I suspect is the case, but I do not know),
Most 744's at the moment use the config: 8/ 80/ 234.
Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 16): LH flies the configuration you are stating, 8/66/270.
Only a few 744's have this configuration, or better said, during summer it is the small C class and during winter the bigger C class with 80 seats.
Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4268 posts, RR: 2 Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9160 times:
Quoting dairy (Reply 28): There are three configs with Luftis 744 right now:
A few month ago I saw a TV documentation that showed that LH reconfigures "on the fly" between two flights to have the right number of J and Y, an aircraft that came in from Argentina was reconfigured for Mexico to have more J. Is this an exception or regular practice?
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9153 times:
airproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 555 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8766 times:
Wilco, will you fly the -8i type one day?
I'd be very excited to fly such a beast. The new wing shape looks gorgeous...
I saw a -8F of GSS some weeks ago in FRA, and I was impressed by the size...
Fantastic airplane...
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8835 times:
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Quoting airproxx (Reply 31): Wilco, will you fly the -8i type one day?
Yes, I will get training on the -8i and then I am allowed to fly 744 and 748i.
Quoting airproxx (Reply 31): I'd be very excited to fly such a beast. The new wing shape looks gorgeous...
I saw a -8F of GSS some weeks ago in FRA, and I was impressed by the size...
Fantastic airplane..
Yes, she looks gorgeous and for sure a nice addition to LAX with all the other 744s and the cargo 748's flying into LAX already.
_AA_777_MAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8644 times:
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8723 times:
Chances dropped significantly now for the 380 to ORD. It will be during summer 330 and 748i and during winter only one daily flight. Plus the flight from MUC and DUS.
AABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 454 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7402 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25): As FWA stated, QR has not announced QR. A rep said its a potential 787 route, and Bloomberg took it entirely out of context. While QR to Chicago is inevitable, it's still yet to be announced.
The rep was the CEO. Therefore, while Akbar Al Baker did not give specific dates for the launches, he did commit to service 'within a year'. My guess is none of these routes will start until the New Doha Int'l Airport opens.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10895 posts, RR: 100 Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5830 times:
Question: Are all the 748i FRA based? Are any scheduled for MUC, BER, or DUS?
Ok, I'm now officially confused. So there is zero gain in F or J and an additional 64 Y seats?
I'm trying to figure out the nature of the LAX-FRA market. I'm getting feedback for more J demand. Is that just the opinion of my coworkers or a need? For if the number of J seats stays constant, then then I wonder why the 748I vs. 744 for LAX?
For the 8/80/234 configuration, I'm impress by the premium to economy ratio...
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5815 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 36): Question: Are all the 748i FRA based? Are any scheduled for MUC, BER, or DUS?
At the moment ONLY FRA. What the future brings, nobody knows. But I guess the 747s will remain in FRA and more 346 will get to MUC. BER and DUS: doubt it.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 36): Ok, I'm now officially confused. So there is zero gain in F or J and an additional 64 Y seats?
I'm trying to figure out the nature of the LAX-FRA market. I'm getting feedback for more J demand. Is that just the opinion of my coworkers or a need? For if the number of J seats stays constant, then then I wonder why the 748I vs. 744 for LAX?
It is seasonal. LAX has a lot of C and F demand, but many people start their vacation there as well, so quite a bit of Y demand as well.
I don't have any information about the yield for the FRA-LAX-FRA sector. But I guess it has something to do with premium passengers as most of the time the 744s with the new Y and F class are sent to LAX. So I guess they want to upgrade the cabin even more and offer a new product.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 36): For the 8/80/234 configuration, I'm impress by the premium to economy ratio...
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5762 times:
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Quoting Nimish (Reply 38): Does this mean the rumored DEL service is delayed? Or are these future destinations for the 748, which might start in parallel or later than DEL?
As you said, rumour. DEL was only a rumour. And for the IAD, LAX and ORD trip you need all the 748i's we get at the beginning. So for now it is 'only' these 3.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 5106 posts, RR: 14 Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3987 times:
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 11): I am looking forward to my first 748i flight as well, but I will for sure not be on it on July 5th, sorry. I am on vacation on that day.
When you do make your first flight, please take as many photos as possible
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31156 posts, RR: 76 Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3820 times:
Quoting AABB777 (Reply 35):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
As FWA stated, QR has not announced QR. A rep said its a potential 787 route, and Bloomberg took it entirely out of context. While QR to Chicago is inevitable, it's still yet to be announced.
The rep was the CEO. Therefore, while Akbar Al Baker did not give specific dates for the launches, he did commit to service 'within a year'. My guess is none of these routes will start until the New Doha Int'l Airport opens.
No commitment was made. He gave examples of possible 787 routes. That's it. Notice how nobody else has reported this except Bloomberg?
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 4 Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2746 times:
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 32): Yes, I will get training on the -8i and then I am allowed to fly 744 and 748i.
when do you expect training to happen? I guess after that it depends where you are on the seniority list. Any guess/estimates when you might make your first flight with passengers?
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2630 times:
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Quoting blrsea (Reply 42): Have the LH 744s been refurbished at all with new seats,IFEs in economy?
No, 9 total.
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 43): when do you expect training to happen? I guess after that it depends where you are on the seniority list. Any guess/estimates when you might make your first flight with passengers?
I guess in August I will get the training. I am rather new on the 744 so there are more senior pilots ahead of me. So I will have to be patient. But I can't wait
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2356 times:
Not announced yed. But earliest when the next airplanes join the fleet. August? September? Not sure yet.
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 45): I'm flying between Germany and US in Sept-Oct this year, what are my options for FRA-USA flights on the 748 during that time?
Go via IAD and chances are very high as this will be flown daily with 748.
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 45): I'm surely going to tailor my flights so that I get the awesome new jumbo experience!!
yeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 790 posts, RR: 14 Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2157 times:
Quoting wilco737 (Reply 8): That's good news. LAX and ORD, 2 destinations I like flying to.
I understand that at O'Hare the 10C-28C runway will be Airplane Design Group VI capable (accommodating both 748 & 388 - the intermittent runway under construction visible at the south side in the satellite image below) but won't be complete until sometime in 2013, last I read, ....perhaps there's newer info.
I was wondering, wilco, will this lack of capability initially add to your workload a great deal when flying into ORD?
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2131 times:
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Quoting yeogeo (Reply 48): I was wondering, wilco, will this lack of capability initially add to your workload a great deal when flying into ORD?
Well, for landing it shouldn't be a problem for dry and wet conditions to land on shorter runways. ORD has many runways to offer where the 744 can land on without any problems and I am sure not different for the 748i.
Take off is a different story. But the flight ORD-FRA isn't the longest, so not too heavy and under normal conditions it shouldn't be a problem as well. Otherwise you leave some cargo behind, but that's about it. I doubt there are more restrictions then.
yeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 790 posts, RR: 14 Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2079 times:
When I was asking about workload I was thinking more along the lines of taxiway restrictions, having assumed that the runways at O'Hare were already ample for the 748 and 388 (apparently they could be a little more generous?)
So as far as you know, taxiing about ORD in an über-jet of either make won't encounter difficulties before 10C-28C is built?
wilco737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2076 times:
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Quoting yeogeo (Reply 50): When I was asking about workload I was thinking more along the lines of taxiway restrictions, having assumed that the runways at O'Hare were already ample for the 748 and 388 (apparently they could be a little more generous?)
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood you here. The 748i has a body gear steering (just like the 744) which makes it rather easy to taxi. But due to the length there are restrictions, but even the 744 has restrcitions already due to the wingspan.
We get a new taxi chart for 748 and there is marked which taxiways are not allowed to be used.
JOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 434 posts, RR: 1 Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2019 times:
Quoting tailfin (Reply 47): Where did July 5th come from as a launch date for 748 on FRA-IAD?
Well according to the previous comments in this thread
Quoting konstantinkoll (Reply 9):
Wilco, if you fly FRA-IAD on July 5th, it will be my pleasure to be on board! I'm really looking forward to my first 748 flight
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
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