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Lufthansa Struggles To Dump BMIbaby  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Posted (2 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12487 times:

Lufthansa is struggling to offload discount airline BMIbaby, potentially reducing proceeds from the sale of its entire U.K. business to British Airways parent IAG.

IAG, or International Consolidated Airlines Group SA (IAG), agreed in December to pay 172.5 million pounds ($274 million) for BMI, while negotiating a “significant” discount should Lufthansa fail to find a home for the no-frills operation.

German turnaround specialist Intro Aviation GmbH, which had expressed an interest in BMIbaby, has ended talks, Managing Director Peter Oncken said in a e-mail. Charter carrier ACL has also dropped plans to make a bid

Ryanair, EasyJet, charter carrier Monarch Airlines and Flybe Group Plc (FLYB), Britain’s biggest domestic operator, all said they’re not interested in bidding.

BMI is also continuing with efforts to sell its Aberdeen, Scotland-based Regional division.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-unit-as-iag-deal-nears-close.html

===

This is, of course, predictable. But I wonder what will eventually transpire. Interesting times indeed.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesimpsondude From UK - Scotland, joined May 2010, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 12069 times:

I may be wrong, but weren't Jet2 looking into BmiBaby?
They operate the same aircraft type and operate out of some of Jet2's established bases


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26506 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11785 times:

I think there is a strong chance of them being shut down and their aircraft sold or scrapped. BMI Baby has little value as a brand . Sad but true.


AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineSunfly From UK - Wales, joined Apr 2012, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11674 times:

Their main problems are many
- They have no real assets, they lease some old 733 aircraft.
- They have higher costs than any of their contemporaries (Including Ryanair, Easyjet, Jet2, Monarch etc etc)
- They have strong competition at all their bases/ cities where they're based.
- Importantly, they lose money each year.
- The brand has no value. It is very confused and doesnt have very strong public recognition.

Lufthansa have really messed up selling both baby and regional. They chose flyforbeans as the prefered bidder, they looked at the books and thought no.

I really hope that they are taken over and the staff are able to keep their jobs, however im not holding my hopes up.


User currently offlineblueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2789 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11626 times:

Who would honestly want this orphaned baby?

It offers absolutely no value to any other carrier. It's fleet is a generation behind its competitors, its route structure generally overlaps its rivals, so why buy an ailing carrier with an ageing fleet and quite horrendous overheads, when you might just as easily sit back and let it expire?

Not nice reading for Baby's employees, but it's the cold, hard reality of the situation. Even the Fly For Beans rabble ran a mile when they saw the books.

Baby's toast IMO, but hope to be proved wrong.  



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11407 times:

In a fully de-regulated market, most competitors (certainly those with existing operations in that market such as Easy, Jet2, Ryanair) can more easily pick off the business they want just by adding some flights on the routes they desire with their existing fleet / staff etc. (Easy could slow the disposal of early A319s, Ryanair similarly with early B738s, Jet2 could add more secondhand 737s). There is no need for them to go through the significant cost and hassle of an acquisition process to do that. I don't believe BMI Baby have any desirable slots (let's remember that the brutal reality was that BMI only had any value because of the LHR slots).

Unfortunately, the best hope for the staff is probably that Easy or Jet2 expand (and recruit) to fill the gap in supply if BMI Baby is closed down (hopefully, for staff and customers sake, any shutdown will be in an orderly manner rather than just overnight).



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,B463,(..50 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11006 times:

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 6):

Indeed, after JK's demise Vueling and IB Express hired quite a few of their employees and took over many routes. BMIbaby having absolutely no value as an acquired company, such a shutdown à la JK is probably the best way out. LH cannot expect to gain any money from this operation, it is a lost case.


User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10713 times:

bmibaby was set up by bmi to spoil the opportunities for Go-Fly when they decided to set up a base at EMA, traditionally one of bmi's home bases.

Since then Go-Fly was taken over by easyJet and Ryanair also set up a base at EMA, easyJet left EMA and Jet2 started flights. bmibaby has not expanded and appears to have high overheads costs because of its lack of scale.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5085 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10315 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
BMI is also continuing with efforts to sell its Aberdeen, Scotland-based Regional division.

What will happen with the Aberdeen - Groningen ( GRQ ) route? Its flown daily on weekdays now because The HQ of NAM, Dutch National Oil Company, and Gasunie, the National Gas company are in or near Groningen.

AFAIK this route is sponsored or even guaranteed by those 2 companies. Will Flybe bid for it?



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineabrown532 From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Feb 2008, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9784 times:

I firmly believe that Jet2 will seriously look into an acquisition of BmiBaby, they may get a very good price if Lufthansa cannot find anybody to buy.

User currently offlinehumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9631 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 9):
What will happen with the Aberdeen - Groningen ( GRQ ) route? Its flown daily on weekdays now because The HQ of NAM, Dutch National Oil Company, and Gasunie, the National Gas company are in or near Groningen.

AFAIK this route is sponsored or even guaranteed by those 2 companies. Will Flybe bid for it?

Who knows what will happen to regional yet. But in the event of regional being shut down, ABZ-EBJ/GRQ would be ideal for Eastern Airways



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineblueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2789 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9611 times:

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 10):

I firmly believe that Jet2 will seriously look into an acquisition of BmiBaby, they may get a very good price if Lufthansa cannot find anybody to buy.

Then you would be firmly wrong; Jet2 have publically announced zero interest in Baby. They did not even look at the books.

Rgds



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineabrown532 From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Feb 2008, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8631 times:

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 12):
Then you would be firmly wrong; Jet2 have publically announced zero interest in Baby.

I stand corrected then.....haha   


User currently offlineantonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 719 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8358 times:

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 12):
Then you would be firmly wrong; Jet2 have publically announced zero interest in Baby. They did not even look at the books.

I am not surprised. Jet2 own all their aircraft and BMI baby's aircraft are all leased.
They are too much of a different setup altogether


User currently offlineasctty From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8334 times:

As a regular user of bmibaby, I would be interested to see who may pick up some of their routes, if not the whole airline. They are the only provider of flights from EMA to EDI/GLA which are of significant business importance to the East Midlands area.
Who might pick these very short haul routes up? Easyjet left EMA and Ryanair have not yet shown any interest. FlyBe perhaps?
They also serve the sunny parts of Europe during the winter months when the other schedules have dries up.


User currently offlinegilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2986 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8243 times:

Really sad news, and I always hoped Jet2 would buy them...

But in reality this is highly unlikely, when you look at the cold hard facts!

Like said, the airline virtually has zero assets. All aircraft are leased, they operate into zero slot restrained airports, without even looking at the finances you can tell the airline has struggled, as they have failed to expand over the last 10 years, with constant tinkering of routes/bases and no long term plan to renew the fleet.

If Jet2 decided to expand at BMI Baby's bases, if they closed... They could simply purchase the leases of the old aircraft and recruit the staff that are laid off. This is probably far simpler than having to run two companies side by side and have to integrate them

Even though the brand probably has very little value, would/if any company that purchased BMI Baby, be allowed to keep the name or would they have to change within a certain period? Just curious as at the end of the day, the airline is a subsidiary of the BMI Group and trades off this name, and even if IAG scrap the BMI brand, they ultimately own it.


User currently offlineTUGMASTER From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Jul 2004, 676 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7456 times:

Here's a thought....

SRB and his VS empire can have BmiBaby...... + bid on the LHR slots that BA will relenquish, ....

He's should then be a happy bunny.... Has the LHR feed, + a ready made euro network.....

Q.E.D.

rgds


User currently offlinegingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 892 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6799 times:

Quoting asctty (Reply 14):
As a regular user of bmibaby, I would be interested to see who may pick up some of their routes, if not the whole airline. They are the only provider of flights from EMA to EDI/GLA which are of significant business importance to the East Midlands area.
Who might pick these very short haul routes up? Easyjet left EMA and Ryanair have not yet shown any interest. FlyBe perhaps?
They also serve the sunny parts of Europe during the winter months when the other schedules have dries up.

I could see LS expanding their services at EMA quite soon after WW's demise. There will be jobs ready for crew that have been laid off, and with type rating in hand it should be an easy fit flight crew also.

LS have a base at GLA, so I could see them linking up GLA & EMA a few times a day no doubt. U2 may come in and pick up the slack, and I'm sure FR will jump on any route that may have looked remotely profitable.



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7210 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

Would the same type rating cover a B737-300 and a B737-800?.

User currently offlineadriaticflight From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 18):
Would the same type rating cover a B737-300 and a B737-800?.

I don't think so.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4391 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 18):

Would the same type rating cover a B737-300 and a B737-800?.

Yes. Pilots cross over daily between 737 Classics and 737 NGs at many airlines.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineliverpoola380 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4349 times:

Quoting TUGMASTER (Reply 16):
SRB and his VS empire can have BmiBaby...... + bid on the LHR slots that BA will relenquish, ....

He's should then be a happy bunny.... Has the LHR feed, + a ready made euro network.....

My thoughts exactly if he bought regional as well he would have even more of a Euro network and as far as I am aware BMI regional is quite profitable !


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3075 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

The B737 does not have the same type rating as the NG! What airlines do you speak of???

BMI Regional may have been profitable as a BMI airline flying some STAR routes. They would be loss making if all they did was feed LHR on the ERJ-145!

[Edited 2012-04-18 02:58:00]

User currently offlineemalad From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4000 times:

I am really saddened by this news   Out of all the Low cost airlines, I like WW the best! If they leave EMA then this will have a massive impact on the airport.

Quoting TUGMASTER (Reply 16):
Here's a thought....

SRB and his VS empire can have BmiBaby...... + bid on the LHR slots that BA will relinquish, ....

He's should then be a happy bunny.... Has the LHR feed, + a ready made euro network.....



How I would love to see this happen!!!  VIRGINbaby  


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

Quoting emalad (Reply 23):
If they leave EMA then this will have a massive impact on the airport.

To put it into context, EMA has, in the week starting 18th April, 55,183 seats. Of this, FR is the leader with 40% followed by WW with 33%. If WW disappeared and no one else replaced at all, then clearly that would have significant consequences on routes, capacity, and passenger traffic. But in reality someone is likely to replace some routes.

Source: OAG Schedules iNET.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
25 Boof : The worlds biggest 737 operator Southwest do it every day all over the network, so do QF here in Australia. It's a different rating but 737 rated pil
26 steman : I never really got the rationale behind LH´s involvment with the whole bmi group. bmi should have been used to feed FRA and MUC from UK/Ireland and n
27 richardw : They've got the additional slots from bmi for LH group at LHR that they wanted, might be an expensive way of getting them though. LH has added feed t
28 skipness1E : So just to be clear, the same pilot can fly a B737 in the morning and fly the very different B737NG in the afternoon? I did not know that! I know tha
29 N1120A : Its not a different rating. Same rating. Differences training is required within any aircraft family, but no "conversion" needed. Now, if the 737NG i
30 skipness1E : In which case I humbly apologise. I had thought that the NG had a whole new glass cockpit which would require a new type rating.
31 skipness1E : Hang on I am getting confused here, the B757/B767 and A330/A340 indeed A319-A340 have near identical flight deck layouts to make cross fleeting as ea
32 N1120A : It does have a glass cockpit. It doesn't, however, require a new rating. Indeed, all 737s are all on the same type certificate (just like the 757 and
33 SKAirbus : Couldn't buying BMI Baby be a chance for BA to reestablish itself at regional UK airports? I mean, they could follow the same ideas the new Iberia Exp
34 skipness1E : Honestly, not going to happen. Regional flying is no longer a BA focus, they're rubbish at it and now they have admitted it and exited the market.
35 jumpjets : One other factor in that equation is that BA has nearly a 15% shareholding in Flybe and also has codeshare arrangements with them. If they really wan
36 GT4EZY : Easyjet certainly saw the same flight crews operating the 733 and 73G.
37 Post contains images emalad : Am not sure how BE taking over WW would work Personally I can't see BE wanting to fly from EMA when their BHX base is just down the road. I use both
38 VV701 : I cannot see bmi Baby having any intrinsic value. It has routes that any interested European airline could start to operate without first purchasing t
39 richardw : not even say 1GBP or 1EURO ?
40 Fabo : Not THAT major. Part of it is in fact driven by requirement to keep the pilot rating the same. Look up NG EICAS in tech/ops for an example. No, he ne
41 VV701 : Not even £1 or even a Euro. Lufthansa Group have acknowledged this, if unintentionally. They have agreed that if bmiBaby is not sold before IAG buy
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