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AS Ending ADK. KS Submits Bid.  
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

http://kucb.org/news/article/penair-...ests-34m-subsidy-for-adak-flights/

Penair is proposing an EAS subsidy request of $3.4m to serve ADK 4 times weekly from ANC. That's more than double the subsidy currently given to AS's two times weekly service with the 737-400 combi.

I love flying just as much as anyone on here, but ANC-ADK is an awful long flight for a Saab. I imagine it will be a one stop through DUT? The article doesn't give any details on that though. ANC-DUT is blocked at 3 hours on the Saab already. ANC-ADK is 1.5 times the distance as ANC-DUT.

AS said that they have been losing money even with the subsidy and even Penair admits that when they put in their own proposal 2 years ago, they would have lost money at the revenue projections they came up with.

If awarded, this would make it the second most expensive subsidy in the EAS program, right behind their newly awarded service from PQI-BOS.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

According to Great Circle Mapper the distance between ANC & ADK is 1,192 miles . The max range of a Saab 340 is 1,076 miles. So this flight must have to stop somewhere. I love the Saab but I'm not sure I'd want to spend 3hrs in that cabin with it's rustic lavatory.

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19208 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 1):
I'm not sure I'd want to spend 3hrs in that cabin with it's rustic lavatory.

How many times would you need to use the toilet on a 3-hour sector?!



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Last year had a total of ~3700 passengers (enplane/deplane) at ADK. Around 19-20 per flight on average. Assuming the passenger levels continue, and they get the $3.4M, that's around $920 per passenger one-way subsidy. Wow.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Thread starter):
AS said that they have been losing money even with the subsidy and even Penair admits that when they put in their own proposal 2 years ago, they would have lost money at the revenue projections they came up with.

What would be the solution to keep ADK running for either airline? Jack up the fares and cargo prices?? If ADK loses service, they are doomed which those people would have no choice but to turn ADK into a ghost town.

Who else flies into ADK? I'm sure some GA aircraft do.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3062 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

That's too bad. I remember when AS started ADK. They started it about the same time they started MCO, so the CEO's article at the front of AS's in-flight magazine had a bit about how diverse their expansion is. He contrasted how incredibly different places MCO and ADK are, yet both are the newest additions to AS's route map.

User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 3):
that's around $920 per passenger one-way subsidy

While that is really high, it is probably important to remember that one of the original intents of EAS was to serve in places like Alaska with so many remote communities. I was just watching "Flying Wild Alaska" and 99% of the places they fly, the only way you will get in and out of the communites is by air.



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
Jack up the fares and cargo prices?

Fares are already $1200-$1500 round trip, even with the subsidy. How much more do you think anyone would be willing to pay?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
If ADK loses service, they are doomed which those people would have no choice but to turn ADK into a ghost town.

Hate to say it but it already pretty much is a ghost town. The reason DUT survives without subsidies is because of its use as a port for a significant amount of fishing vessels. ADK is nowhere near a launching point for any type of fishing fleet.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
Who else flies into ADK? I'm sure some GA aircraft do.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/PADK

According to Airnav.com, they averaged 28 aircraft movements per month in the year ending January 2011. 62% of that was commercial service. So there really isn't much going on there other than this EAS service.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 939 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2134 times:

Hate to sound callous but maybe Adak doesn't really have a purpose anymore. It seems the whole town is actually now owned by an Alaska Native corporation...Aleut Corporation....and only a little more than 350 people live there. It's reason for being in recent history was a military installation, now closed and a Cold War relic. Is it really the best use of EAS funds to pay a huge subsidy to so few people to maintain air service? Seems to me that if the whole town is privately owned that the corporation that owns it can provide charter service as needed.

Good read on the history of Adak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adak,_Alaska


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3062 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

How come AS has never served Cold Bay?

User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1013 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

... because PenAir is already in there. And interestingly enough, the Adak flights will make a fuel stop in Cold Bay.


xx
User currently offlineflyPBA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1910 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
According to Airnav.com, they averaged 28 aircraft movements per month in the year ending January 2011. 62% of that was commercial service. So there really isn't much going on there other than this EAS service.

The Coast Guard uses Adak quite a lot when they are patrolling/searching the waters out there


User currently offlineDash8Driver16 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1499 times:

I traveled out there two years ago. There are 13 passengers on the plane, two TSA agents, a mechanic, and ten revenue PAX. It was a pretty incredible place, there were people lining the fence when we arrived waiting for their freight and also for just the novelty. The agents there said that the Coasties come out and use it as a base for searches as well as air ambulance services.


[Edited 2012-04-19 10:52:29]

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1410 times:

Too bad the Alaska Air Group couldn't stage a QX airframe in ANC to flight to run the flight.


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 13):
Too bad the Alaska Air Group couldn't stage a QX airframe in ANC to flight to run the flight.

The leg is within the advertised range of the Q400. Maybe QX would consider it if there were more of a market for Q flying up north.


User currently offlineWeb From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1073 times:

I would think that overall, the Saab would be the more economical choice of aircraft, especially given the light pax loads. Somebody has to pay for these flights, and it just seems wasteful to send so much aircraft to a place that doesn't need the lift of a 734.


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