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WN Picks Amadeus For International Ops  
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9107 times:

It appears Southwest has picked Amadeus’ Altéa reservations solution for the international operations with an option to convert to Amadeus for the domestic ops. I assume this is the fix neccesary going forward. Admittedly the article said this portion of Amadeus will be ready by 2014 to handle the International side. I cant post the internal link but when it becomes available Ill post here.  


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9086 times:

Does that mean FL will continue to operate international flights under its own code/brand until 2014??   


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User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1103 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9008 times:

why not just move the whole thing to a new system?

User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6691 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8682 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Thread starter):
I cant post the internal link but when it becomes available Ill post here.

Here's the press release: Southwest Airlines and Amadeus IT Group Sign Contract to Support the Carrier's Plan to Implement International Service

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 1):
Does that mean FL will continue to operate international flights under its own code/brand until 2014?

Presumably, yes. But I think even the original plans had the FL brand operating into late 2013 or 2014.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6997 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8606 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 1):
Does that mean FL will continue to operate international flights under its own code/brand until 2014??

More like 2015+. What this tells us is that AirTran is going to be getting a new RES system...and it isn't the WN system. That means it will be much longer before they are merged into WN. It says that the contract allows for the conversion of the whole of WN into the new Altea software, but first they will convert the AirTran network and see how that goes. Then will take at least a year (if past history is any guide) before converting over the whole WN network...and then...and only then...can they merge the two companies. So, we are talking about 2015 at best.

This also means that they have given up modifying the existing WN system to sell int'l. Given that the code share is now due somewhere in 2013 and FL is converting to a new system the following year, one wonders if the code share will never happen at all.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Thread starter):

It appears Southwest has picked Amadeus’ Altéa reservations solution for the international operations with an option to convert to Amadeus for the domestic ops. I assume this is the fix neccesary going forward. Admittedly the article said this portion of Amadeus will be ready by 2014 to handle the International side. I cant post the internal link but when it becomes available Ill post here.

Anybody know anything about Altea? Is it any good?


User currently onlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8406 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):

Amadeus is for international flying on WN metal. FL is going to continue using what they have.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8278 times:

All this sounds awfully and unnecessarily convoluted to me...  


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User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8246 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
More like 2015+. What this tells us is that AirTran is going to be getting a new RES system...and it isn't the WN system. That means it will be much longer before they are merged into WN. It says that the contract allows for the conversion of the whole of WN into the new Altea software, but first they will convert the AirTran network and see how that goes. Then will take at least a year (if past history is any guide) before converting over the whole WN network...and then...and only then...can they merge the two companies. So, we are talking about 2015 at best.

This also means that they have given up modifying the existing WN system to sell int'l. Given that the code share is now due somewhere in 2013 and FL is converting to a new system the following year, one wonders if the code share will never happen at all.


Actually that is somewhat incorrect Mr.Enilria with respect. This system is for WN only not for FL this will enable them to begin to transition over the international flying staring in 2014. From what i understand Airtran as it is now will not be come some point in 2014. If you have seen 2015 timeline anywhere that pertains to crew bases opening in ATL no later then Jan 2 2015.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3065 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8128 times:

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 6):
All this sounds awfully and unnecessarily convoluted to me...

It does to me too, but I'm neither an IT professional nor an airline employee. I can only assume that Amadeus offered a better solution for WN than either upgrading to a newer version of SABRE or switching over to FL's current version of Navitaire. I look forward to reading the opinions of people more knowledgeable about these systems as to why WN chose Amadeus over the other two seemingly more obvious choices.



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User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6997 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8025 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 5):
Quoting enilria (Reply 4):

Amadeus is for international flying on WN metal. FL is going to continue using what they have.

I'm re-reading that. It is not clear that is the case. If WN has two RES systems, one for international flights and one for domestic flights then how is that different than today with FL on one system and WN on one system? They have already stated that they intend to ween FL down to int'l flying only by the transition, so to say that it will support only the international flying at that point is correct since FL will be doing all the international flying. You can call it FL or WN-2 if you want, but two RES systems is pretty much like two airlines at least in the way I look at it.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 7):
Actually that is somewhat incorrect Mr.Enilria with respect. This system is for WN only not for FL this will enable them to begin to transition over the international flying staring in 2014. From what i understand Airtran as it is now will not be come some point in 2014. If you have seen 2015 timeline anywhere that pertains to crew bases opening in ATL no later then Jan 2 2015.

Where does it say that exactly? I re-read it and I don't think that is clear at all. I'm fairly certain they will transition FL to this new system as a test for converting the whole of WN. I heard that was in the works for a while. Whether AirTran is called AirTran or Southwest by that point is a whole different issue. From a branding perspective they could call it Southwest, but two RES systems are basically two airlines. I guess we'll see, but the release I read is not very clear.


User currently offlinegizmonc From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7436 times:

Amadeus is the perferred GDS for Star Alliance. It was started by LH, Iberia, AF and SAS. All the US based GDS systems have been renamed , bought and sold over the years. Saber used to be owned by AMR, Pars ( Worldspan) was TWA and NW. Apollo was US, Shares was Eastern then CO and now UA. This is all from memory so please correct me if I have posted something wrong. DL was on Data@ for ages, then bought part of Worldspan and sold it to Travelport. Many folks think Sabre is the king of GDS but I am sure it is all on what you use. I cut my teeth on PARS with the long entries. But I think everyone for the most part uses Windows based interfaces now. Last system I used was Shares that US Airways is using. I was NOT impressed with the Windows type interface. I guess I am old school pefer to use it native.

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6997 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6996 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 7):
Actually that is somewhat incorrect Mr.Enilria with respect. This system is for WN only not for FL this will enable them to begin to transition over the international flying staring in 2014. From what i understand Airtran as it is now will not be come some point in 2014. If you have seen 2015 timeline anywhere that pertains to crew bases opening in ATL no later then Jan 2 2015.
Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 5):
Quoting enilria (Reply 4):

Amadeus is for international flying on WN metal. FL is going to continue using what they have.

On the earnings call Kelly said "the Amadeus system and the Sabre system will be largely separate". The IT VP said, "there will be a time where the AirTran system, the Sabre system, and the Amadeus system are all running before we get back to a single system". That is also pretty blurry. It implies that at the point a merger occurs that a single RES system will be in place.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2149 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6217 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
On the earnings call Kelly said "the Amadeus system and the Sabre system will be largely separate". The IT VP said, "there will be a time where the AirTran system, the Sabre system, and the Amadeus system are all running before we get back to a single system". That is also pretty blurry. It implies that at the point a merger occurs that a single RES system will be in place.

Seriously. My head is spinning with all of this info.



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User currently offlineBNAtraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6113 times:
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WN does not run SABRE, it runs SAAS which is the evolution of Braniff's Cowboy system. SABRE hosts SAAS for Southwest, but it is apart and separate from SABRE. SAAS did not evolve from SABRE and other than the hosting agreement the two systems are not related in lineage.

User currently offlineasteriskceo From United States of America, joined May 2004, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5974 times:

If I had substantial LUV stock, I'd be selling it. All I can see is WN bleeding cash down the road with this painstakingly slow merger/acquisition/whatever we're calling it these days. We all know that WN isn't fond of change, which has been a benefit to the airline, but when you make a bold move, like acquiring FL, you don't have the luxury of "changing" at your usual pace. They really need to get this ball rolling, and quickly. My 2 cents..

User currently offlineflyingcaT From United States of America, joined May 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5974 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 8):
I look forward to reading the opinions of people more knowledgeable about these systems as to why WN chose Amadeus over the other two seemingly more obvious choices.

Price had to be a big factor. Losing UA in North America was a huge loss as it now has no hosted airline in the region. SHARES is lower cost than UA and Amadeus has always sold itself as having a more developed system and charge accordingly. I expect Amadeus to bid low enough that WN will put up with all the roadblocks to make it all worthwhile.


User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5418 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
On the earnings call Kelly said "the Amadeus system and the Sabre system will be largely separate". The IT VP said, "there will be a time where the AirTran system, the Sabre system, and the Amadeus system are all running before we get back to a single system". That is also pretty blurry. It implies that at the point a merger occurs that a single RES system will be in place.

Really struggling to see how this makes any sense at all. It doesn't appear to solve anything: you're still going to have the trouble of getting a legacy system to interoperate with a newer system on a long-term basis. It's just now it's a 3-way deal, with no firm vision toward a "migration" anytime in the forecast.

Seems like way too many moving parts to be a good idea.


User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the details, and someone please correct me if I am, but am I the only one that sees the irony in a system of commerce that is hobbled by software, the very tools that are supposed to make commerce more efficient than it was years ago? I mean, I honestly don't know, but fifty years ago would it really take three years to be able to add international flying? I digress...


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User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3678 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

That's all very surprising, but I'm loving it. Amadeus is really the best out there in my opinion.

User currently offlineflyingcaT From United States of America, joined May 2007, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4805 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
Amadeus is really the best out there in my opinion.

Again I think this was Amadeus undoing in the UA deal. Their belief was that UA/CO would use the HP/US experience to validate the idea that Shares while less expensive needs more development for future initiatives.

Unfortunately they forget that CO has worked around these limitations for years and EDS knows price was and is a huge deal to the CO led finance team..


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 19):

I think you're confusing Apollo and Amadeus. UA never used Amadeus but did at one point have an agreement in place to switch to it.



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User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3065 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

Quoting BNAtraveler (Reply 13):
WN does not run SABRE, it runs SAAS which is the evolution of Braniff's Cowboy system. SABRE hosts SAAS for Southwest, but it is apart and separate from SABRE. SAAS did not evolve from SABRE and other than the hosting agreement the two systems are not related in lineage.

Thank you for clearing that up! Several times in a related thread about the WN/FL integration it has been mentioned that WN used SABRE, which didn't seem correct to me, but I didn't know enough facts about the situation to offer an argument.

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 15):
Quoting TSS (Reply 8):
I look forward to reading the opinions of people more knowledgeable about these systems as to why WN chose Amadeus over the other two seemingly more obvious choices.

Price had to be a big factor. Losing UA in North America was a huge loss as it now has no hosted airline in the region. SHARES is lower cost than UA and Amadeus has always sold itself as having a more developed system and charge accordingly. I expect Amadeus to bid low enough that WN will put up with all the roadblocks to make it all worthwhile.

A very low bid would have been my first guess.  
Quoting FL787 (Reply 20):
Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 19):

I think you're confusing Apollo and Amadeus. UA never used Amadeus but did at one point have an agreement in place to switch to it.

Which US airline, if any, did or does use Amadeus?



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User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1536 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 21):
Which US airline, if any, did or does use Amadeus?

None that I'm aware of though it is extremely popular over in Europe.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinePRINAIR From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

AMADEUS was born from the original EA owned System One CRS. Later on CO sold System One to Amadeus and for a while it was called System One Amadeus in the US market. After the transition period the System One name was dropped. Amadeus is a great system that keeps evolving and getting better with time. It is too bad that UA went for SHARES but as we all know money is always the deciding factor.


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