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Private Plane Crash Over Gulf Of Mexico  
User currently offlineMark2Fly1034 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 130 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 18176 times:

Not sure if posted but a plane just went down in the Gulf of Mexico. Rumors are the pilot is incapacitated.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...L/history/20120419/1230Z/KASD/KSRQ

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecomair25 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 18126 times:

Says he was traveling at FL270, most likely decompression.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ive-plane-circling-gulf-of-mexico/


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4611 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 18128 times:

Been watching this for about a half hour or so now. Not good. :-/

Air Force reported the plane's windows were iced/fogged over and pilot was not responding.


User currently offlineOroka From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 18084 times:

Oh my, that is not a good flight path at all.

User currently offlineMark2Fly1034 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17961 times:

It was a Cessna 421. Wonder if we will see something changed to do with the quick oxygen mask that should be available if that happens within 5 seconds.

User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17960 times:

That does not look like a great situation. Let's hope for a positive outcome, despite how unlikely it seems at this point.

User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1336 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17696 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Duplicate topics, but this ones seems to be the most active.

News reports are stating crashed and flightaware data is not valid for last 3 minutes.

One can hope that the crash was not violent and coastguard can respond (they are alerted, but I don't know how far away) - but that is slim hope.

Windows fogged - how many on board?



rcair1
User currently offlinecomair25 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17594 times:

Flightaware was showing he was descending at almost 2k FPM just below 10k feet. Hopefully it leveled out a bit.

User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1993 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17557 times:

Doesn't look good at all. So sad. And of course this immediately reminds me of Payne Stewart's plane crash.

User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17443 times:

Apparently crashed: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...L/history/20120419/1230Z/KASD/KSRQ


They are saying that it would've ran out of fuel by 12:30 EST, its not 12:50 EST.

Source

Update: Confirmed crashed, Rescuers flying to the scene.

[Edited 2012-04-19 10:09:37]


The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17010 times:

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 6):
Windows fogged - how many on board?

Just the pilot it seems...


User currently offlineMark2Fly1034 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16879 times:

Now what would cause it to do all the circles I wold of thought the plane would of flown straight even if wind pushed it it would not make it to a circle. So I wonder in one engine went out as well in this case I would guess the right one with all the right turns but it is not all fitting together. Unless it was on autopilot but why would it be holding or what would make it do all the circles?

User currently offlinegatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16385 times:

Quoting Mark2Fly1034 (Reply 11):
Now what would cause it to do all the circles I wold of thought the plane would of flown straight even if wind pushed it it would not make it to a circle. So I wonder in one engine went out as well in this case I would guess the right one with all the right turns but it is not all fitting together. Unless it was on autopilot but why would it be holding or what would make it do all the circles?

I was trying to work out the same thing. The only scenario I could come up with (assuming depressurization) is that the pilot passed out onto the controls that caused a continuous left-handed bank.

Towards the end of the track, with fuel running low, the #2 engine may have gone out first, with asymmetric power overcoming the unconscious pilot, causing a right handed turn. 100% speculation.

Thoughts and prayers to the pilot and his family...



Cha brro
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16087 times:

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 12):
I was trying to work out the same thing. The only scenario I could come up with (assuming depressurization) is that the pilot passed out onto the controls that caused a continuous left-handed bank.

Towards the end of the track, with fuel running low, the #2 engine may have gone out first, with asymmetric power overcoming the unconscious pilot, causing a right handed turn. 100% speculation.



Not likely an engine quitting. If that were the case, without any pilot inputs, it likely would have rolled over and crashed. That's probably what happened towards the end with the very tight circle you see.

Without autopilot, it is very difficult for a small plane to stay straight and level without at least small pilot inputs from time to time. Even just the weight of the pilot's hand on the yoke or a slight imbalance in the weight distribution on a small plane is enough. It's much easier to trim for a nose level attitude, but for banking, it's not so easy.

The turning may have been a blessing in disguise. It's a very unfortunate situation for the pilot, but had the plane continued straight forward, it's likely it would have crashed on land increasing the possibility of more injuries or fatalities.

[Edited 2012-04-19 10:55:55]


SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7847 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15943 times:

Caused a real tizzy over at NORAD:

http://www.norad.mil/News/2012/041912.html



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineMark2fly1034 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15528 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/19/us/gul...rcraft-search/index.html?hpt=us_c2

From CNN


User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14358 times:

If it was a loss of pressure and was slowly spiraling down wouldn't the pilot have regained consciousness when he got down to 12K feet or so?

User currently offlinePackcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14046 times:

not if he was at altitude long enough. There would be no oxygen left for him to remain alive. The pilot would most likely have already passed away from lack of oxygen while at altitude, so decreasing altitude would have done nothing for him.


Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
User currently offlineMikeCT From United States of America, joined May 2008, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14044 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):
If it was a loss of pressure and was slowly spiraling down wouldn't the pilot have regained consciousness when he got down to 12K feet or so?

I was thinking the same thing, but according to Flightaware, it looks like the plane was flying in circles at altitudes up past 30,000 feet for more than three hours. I would assume at the very least it would take some time to regain consciousness after that long at altitude without oxygen, if you could at all. Sadly, I don't think he was below 12,000 feet for more than a few minutes.


User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14048 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):
If it was a loss of pressure and was slowly spiraling down wouldn't the pilot have regained consciousness when he got down to 12K feet or so?

If you look at the altitude track on the bottom of the FlightAware page, you can see he didn't descend until near the end, presumably when he ran out of fuel on at least one engine. In fact, with some variation, the altitude actually trended up. That is probably because as the plane burned off fuel, without the pilot compensating for the loss of weight with trim, the plane would actually climb.

A well-trimmed plane in relatively stable conditions will maintain its altitude or at least within a few hundred feet fairly well.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 13):
Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 12):
I was trying to work out the same thing. The only scenario I could come up with (assuming depressurization) is that the pilot passed out onto the controls that caused a continuous left-handed bank.

Towards the end of the track, with fuel running low, the #2 engine may have gone out first, with asymmetric power overcoming the unconscious pilot, causing a right handed turn. 100% speculation.



Not likely an engine quitting. If that were the case, without any pilot inputs, it likely would have rolled over and crashed. That's probably what happened towards the end with the very tight circle you see.

I reread your post again, and I believe I misunderstood you the first time. I think you and I are referring to the same point where an engine likely quit. Sorry for the misread on my part.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlineAeroflot001 From Argentina, joined Oct 2009, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14000 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):
If it was a loss of pressure and was slowly spiraling down wouldn't the pilot have regained consciousness when he got down to 12K feet or so?

Well unfortunately he could have died due to the prolonged lack of oxygen.


User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13809 times:

I had a speculation that the left hand turn was input and set into the autopilot ( I don't know if it's capable of holding a certain degree of bank) - But that would explain why the plane continued to drift as it flew in circles, being pushed by the wind. My first thought was potentially a CO leak into the cabin, incapacitating the pilot, but the windows frosting up definitely points toward a lack of pressurization.


Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13703 times:

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 21):
I had a speculation that the left hand turn was input and set into the autopilot ( I don't know if it's capable of holding a certain degree of bank) - But that would explain why the plane continued to drift as it flew in circles, being pushed by the wind.

I'm pretty sure the plane wasn't on autopilot. Autopilots generally either fly a specified heading or are linked to one of the navigation instruments (VOR, GPS, etc). Also, the altitude varies suggesting no autopilot. Also, the turns are not constant. It starts with a very slow right turn, then left hand circles, then tight right-hand circles at the end.

Like I said earlier, it takes very little to turn a small plane. Even just tiny variations in weight or imperfections in the controls or control surfaces or the slightest pressure on the yoke or a little bit of turbulence can cause the plane to enter a bank. Simply the weight of the pilot's hand on the control is enough.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13622 times:

The tail number is N48DL a Cessna 421

I've been getting emailed all day because I have a couple of photos of it on airport-data.com that the news agencies want to use.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13045 times:

Quoting MikeCT (Reply 18):
I would assume at the very least it would take some time to regain consciousness after that long at altitude without oxygen, if you could at all.

No one could recover from a lack of oxygen at that altitude for that long. It might not be enough to cause death, but would definitely be enough to destory higher brain function.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 13):
The turning may have been a blessing in disguise.

The turning gives us a pretty good clue as to what happened. Had the aircraft continued on a straight course it would have flown over Florida and out into the Atlantic / Bermuda Triangle. Possibly the authorities would not have recognized the seriousness of the problem to get aircraft into the air to follow it before it went down 400-500 miles out into the Atlantic.


25 rcair1 : According to FA he/she was at altitude (30K) for some 3 hours after the course became erratic. I think that you would suffer permanent damage or deat
26 beeweel15 : This is very very similar to an accident many years ago but with a private jet. I believe it was a HS125 jet that was heading west and crashed somewh
27 Dazed767 : Talking about the Lear 35 with Payne Stewart on it back in 1999?[Edited 2012-04-19 17:01:04]
28 beeweel15 : Yes that's it just got the aircraft wrong. Thanks for the correction
29 Post contains links Braniff747SP : Gizmodo (not the best source, I'll agree) is reporting that they may have identified the pilot: http://gizmodo.com/5903527/this-coul...ho-crashed-into
30 ltbewr : One can be trained to deal with a depressurization event, but how an individual pilot will deal with it when it happens is critical. A pilot may not r
31 EFCar98 : How ironic that payne stewart's aircrat was N47** and this one was N48**
32 Mcoov : Has the Coast Guard been dispatched to the crash site? Any updates to report?
33 Post contains links maxpower1954 : Reminds me of the accident that killed LSU coach Bo Rein back in 1980. http://dagmar.lunarpages.com/~parasc2/articles/0997/oblivion.htm
34 Post contains links redrooster3 : CNN is reporting that the plane made a "softer" crash landing, with the tail hanging out when rescue boats got there. It has since sank. No pilot foun
35 penguins : Just a quick question about decompression. When a decompression takes place and you faint due to lack of oxygen, how long are you alive for? If the pl
36 Post contains links rfields5421 : Helios Airways Flight 552 is a good indication of what happens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 After almost 2 hours depressur
37 Post contains links 71Zulu : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqWal_EmBg Best example of effects of hypoxia right here, Kalitta Cargo Learjet, lucky guys.
38 PHX787 : Wow that sounded scary. Towards the end of the video, was the "pilot" talking the drunk-sounding pilot in the beginning? Amazing.
39 71Zulu : The pilot in the first part (I believe he was the Capt) can be heard starting to recover at 3:42, then sounds like the F/O is heard for the first tim
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