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732 Crash In Pakistan  
User currently offlinecabso1 From Canada, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32913 times:

A 732 has crashed near ISB airport. There was 127 people on board and it crashed in a populated area.

The aircraft belonged to E4 - Bhoja Air, operating under flight 213. Details forthcoming.

http://dawn.com/2012/04/20/reports-o...lane-crash-near-chaklala-dawnnews/
http://t.co/naTPgA4i
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17788698

[Edited 2012-04-20 07:36:58]

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineimiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32959 times:

I've just spoken to my uncle in Army HQ Rawalpindi and they're in the process of getting some choppers to the area. Apparently it's quite serious.

User currently offlineChicagoFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32931 times:

Early news: 118 fatalities from 127 onboard
http://dawn.com/2012/04/20/reports-o...lane-crash-near-chaklala-dawnnews/


User currently offlineNDiesel From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32947 times:

Only one picture of Bhoja Air in the database it seems.

Let's hope for the best for passengers and crew, as well as people on the ground.



Delta MD-11 JFK-CDG - Upon sunrise I fell in love with Aviation
User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32716 times:

Sad to hear.

All of Bhoja Air 737-200s (different sources give different numbers) once belonged to British Airways. The a/c posted above (AP-BEP) cannot be the frame that crashed, as it was sold to Merpati and later scrapped.

[Edited 2012-04-20 07:51:29]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlinecabso1 From Canada, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32674 times:

Reports are that this was the inaugural flight and that there are no survivors. Reports are sketchy at this point.

User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 32618 times:

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 5):
Reports are that this was the inaugural flight

Oh, than the a/c involved seems to be LN 635, which has been delivered to Bhoja Air only quite recently. Originally delivered to BA in 1980 with reg G-BGDD.

[Edited 2012-04-20 07:55:19]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineliquidair From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 32184 times:

First images show a gruesome scene. Wreckage is scattered over a considerable area according to sky news. They quote experts, blaming the weather.

BBC now reporting AC came down during a thunderstorm, as it came in to land.

[Edited 2012-04-20 08:35:59]

User currently offlinemjabbasi From Pakistan, joined Nov 2007, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 32046 times:

My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD. Lightening strike is being blamed as the cause of the crash.

User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 31649 times:

Quoting liquidair (Reply 7):
First images show a gruesome scene.

Not sure about the images I'm receiving in my TV, they show a wreckage in daylight time and seconds later other images in night time... can not be even sure if I'm watching the same crash at different times or totally different crashes.

Also I see a blue T-tail section in the images, did this airline has any T-tailed airplane ??

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineKHI747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 31453 times:

Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD. Lightening strike is being blamed as the cause of the crash.

Can lightening itself solely bring down an aircraft?

Aircraft are often struck by lightening,infact i rememeber there was one event at LHR involving an EK plane not too long which and it was even captured on video. I believe aircraft are designed to withstand lighening strikes.

Lets wait and see what details appear as in most cases its a sequence of events that cause a crash - not one.


User currently offlineSASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 756 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 31393 times:
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Really sad news indeed! My thoughts are with the families of the victims.

Early reports suggest it went down in all but optimal weather.



2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
User currently offlineT8KE0FF From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 417 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 31219 times:

What sad news. How come there were 9 crew onboard?! That's quite a lot for a domestic hop on a 732, is it not?


RJ85 E145 E195 A319 A320 A330 A340 A380 B737 B747 B757 B767 B777 B787 DH4
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12541 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 31097 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 4):
The a/c posted above (AP-BEP) cannot be the frame that crashed, as it was sold to Merpati and later scrapped.

The poster didn't say that was the frame that crashed, he said it was the only Bhoja Air photo in the a.net database.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 30897 times:

Quoting T8KE0FF (Reply 12):
What sad news. How come there were 9 crew onboard?! That's quite a lot for a domestic hop on a 732, is it not?

Well, if it was the inaugural flight, as suggested above, then their could very well have been some crew training on the flight! The flight deck might have had some training personal in the jumpseats and their might have been extra flight attendants on board doing training as well!



Quoting KHI747 (Reply 10):
Can lightening itself solely bring down an aircraft?

In short, no lightning can't really bring down an aircraft! They are designed to take the lightning strike and discharge the electricity out the static wicks on the wings and tail. However, if their was a thunderstorm in the area, then their are other hazards that have to be looked at, including wind shear, micro bursts, or overall low cloud layers!

Either way, this is sad news indeed!

RIP to the victims



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlinenema From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 30697 times:

This is very sad news..


Whats more the BBC news article states that Last July, an Airbus A321 crashed as it was about to land in Islamabad, killing all 152 people on board.

The same approach?



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13110 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 29793 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 10):
Can lightening itself solely bring down an aircraft?

Yes, and has done so before. However, if properly maintained, the lightning protection system would preserve the airframe.

Now, in the USA, the last plane crash attributed to lightning was in 1967. I have no idea of the source, but this CNN article also claims a domestic plane is hit about once a year:
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-17/t...ghtning-strikes-plane?_s=PM:TRAVEL

Now one of the more spectacular crashes was Pan Am 214:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_214

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 14):
In short, no lightning can't really bring down an aircraft! They are designed to take the lightning strike and discharge the electricity out the static wicks on the wings and tail.

Lightning shouldn't be able to bring down an aircraft with a fully functioning lightning protection system. If there were few broken grounding wires (there is always redundancy). Also, untreated corrosion can make the system's effectiveness too low to save the airframe or electronics.

About every 3 to 5 years, an airframe without proper maintenance oversight is lost to lightning. The last I'm aware of was a Colombia flight in 2010 (note: I'm going from memory). Should this happen?    Was it definitively the cause of the crash?    However, considering the current regulatory environment in Pakistan, should it be suspected?   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineT8KE0FF From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 417 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 29786 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 14):
Well, if it was the inaugural flight, as suggested above, then their could very well have been some crew training on the flight! The flight deck might have had some training personal in the jumpseats and their might have been extra flight attendants on board doing training as well!

Aah, I hadn't of thought of that.

Thanks!  



RJ85 E145 E195 A319 A320 A330 A340 A380 B737 B747 B757 B767 B777 B787 DH4
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 29600 times:

Quoting nema (Reply 15):
Whats more the BBC news article states that Last July, an Airbus A321 crashed as it was about to land in Islamabad, killing all 152 people on board. Same approach?

Totally different situations... The Air Blue A321 flew towards a mountain, off the path they were cleared to fly, and ignored calls from ATC and multiple cockpit alarms before crashing into terrain. It wasn't even on approach to a runway, wheras this 732 seemed to have been so I don't think we can blame the airport approach for this accident.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineLXa332 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 28860 times:

Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD.

AV Herald is reporting AP-BKC.


User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 28364 times:

Quoting T8KE0FF (Reply 17):
The last I'm aware of was a Colombia flight in 2010 (note: I'm going from memory).

The Aires crash in ADZ had nothing to do with poor maintenance.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20100816-0

777jaah



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1842 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 27057 times:

Ok, now we're getting conflicting reports as to the type of reports involved:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/20/world/...n-plane-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

The PRINT article is referencing a 737-200, but the VIDEO is saying an Airbus A321. Same news outlet.

What is going on here?


User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4260 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 26002 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 21):
Ok, now we're getting conflicting reports as to the type of reports involved:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/20/world/...hp_t3

It's a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. It seems pretty clear that this was a B732, although it does have to be said that the CNN article manages to cite an irrelevant 1950s Comet crash in their article. What poor journalism.

Condolences to those that were lost. The first major tragedy of 2012 (with more than 50 fatalities), and hopefully the last.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1833 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 25339 times:

Bhoja Air has posted a passenger list on their home page encouraging family members to contact given emergency numbers, which I have never seen an airline do before.

It seems that there are 121 passengers on the list, as opposed to the previously reported 118. Very sad.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 24895 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
Lightning shouldn't be able to bring down an aircraft with a fully functioning lightning protection system. If there were few broken grounding wires (there is always redundancy). Also, untreated corrosion can make the system's effectiveness too low to save the airframe or electronics.

About every 3 to 5 years, an airframe without proper maintenance oversight is lost to lightning. The last I'm aware of was a Colombia flight in 2010 (note: I'm going from memory). Should this happen? Was it definitively the cause of the crash? However, considering the current regulatory environment in Pakistan, should it be suspected?

Well that is true, however, freak occurrences can and do happen! I can say with confidence that airplane around the world get struck everyday by lightning with no issues what so ever! I have been struck numerous times by lightning in my career with little or no affect and often don't even realize it until I have landed and performed the post flight inspection! That said, you are correct that this is in Pakistan, where the safety standards might not be up to par with most countries. I would think though, if the plane was just delivered, that a close maintenance inspection would have been completed prior to entering service! Then again, who am I kidding?

I did get a kick out of your smiley face explanation, funniest thing I have seen all day!



Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 23):
Bhoja Air has posted a passenger list on their home page encouraging family members to contact given emergency numbers, which I have never seen an airline do before.

Seems a bit tasteless to me! You would think they would be able to look up passenger information and start informing the families that way, instead of posting the deceased on their web site.



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2654 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 26378 times:

Just seen some pictures, there's absolutely nothing left of the aircraft. Utterly destroyed, those poor people didn't have a chance.


arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently onlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3015 posts, RR: 52
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 26080 times:
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Incredibly sad news. My thoughts are with the families, relatives and friends of those involved. Rest in peace to everyone that was on board.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 23):
Bhoja Air has posted a passenger list on their home page encouraging family members to contact given emergency numbers, which I have never seen an airline do before.

It seems that there are 121 passengers on the list, as opposed to the previously reported 118. Very sad.

Singapore Airlines did the same back when SQ006 crashed several years ago:


http://web.archive.org/web/200011090...www.singaporeair.com/report4b.html



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 26568 times:

Just heard about this. May all the souls involved find peace eternal.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1645 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 24384 times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/wo...e-crashes-in-pakistan-capital.html


http://dawn.com/2012/04/21/in-pictures-bhoja-air-crash-near-islamabad/


RIP to all the victims, and condolences to family and friends.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 808 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 23656 times:

I saw this reported through My Verizon. The photo above the headline was of a Qantas A380. The only hint in the headline that it was likely not an A380 was that there we 127 on board.


...are we there yet?
User currently offlineukair From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 22147 times:

Why did the flight crew try to land in these conditions? If the conditions where below minimums they should have diverted to a safer airport. Sorry to be blunt but I think it needs to be said.

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 18152 times:

Sad news. Sounds like a brutal crash. Hopefully something like this can be avoided next time. RIP


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 18176 times:

Interesting. The Bhoja Air website seems to be indicating that PIA has alloted one of their 747s to transport the victims families. RIP.


Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17430 times:

Quoting LXa332 (Reply 19):
Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD.

AV Herald is reporting AP-BKC

Theres a comment thats says it is BKD.

Heres a photo in better days, ex BA & Comair - clearly still has the ex BA blue belly.
http://fly-news.es/aviones/seguridad...37-de-bhoja-air/attachment/ap-bkd/



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 17093 times:

I am surprised to see that so far there are only 33 postings regarding this major air crash. Hardly any speculation, except the weather.
RIP to pax and crew.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 16624 times:

I don't want to sound off-topic, but is there any Flightaware on this route?


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineAviational From Canada, joined Jan 2012, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 15978 times:

Very Sad News....RIP to the victims...
.
Eye witnesses around the area are saying that lightning struck the aircraft and it exploded right away !


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9097 posts, RR: 75
Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 15980 times:

Quoting nema (Reply 15):
The same approach?

From what I understand Air Blue was conducting a circling approach to runway 12, they initially made an instrument approach to runways 30, got visual, and flew a visual left circuit for runway 12. The exceeded the circuit area considerably, and hit terrain about 7 nm (around 13 km) north of the airport. They have since raised the minimum circling height by 250 ft on that approach for some aircraft.

Quoting ukair (Reply 30):
Why did the flight crew try to land in these conditions? If the conditions where below minimums they should have diverted to a safer airport.

The Wx conditions at the time we well inside the minimum for the ILS, 300' cloud base and 1200 m visibility. The reported conditions at the time put the cloud base at 10,000 ft, with some areas of scattered could at 2500’, and visibility of 3000m.

It is worth noting that the airport elevation is around 1700', and the aircraft it would appear from initial reports has come down slightly off the approach path for runway 30, around 3 nm from the airport. They should have been around 1000' at that stage. There was no larger difference in the QNH from 1013, I am at a loss to explain why they would have been so low that far out.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineViper911 From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 15865 times:

According to Wikipedia and air safety network, the plane was AP-BKC, with 6 crew on board and not 9 as previously stated.

RIP.


User currently offlinesshd From Spain, joined May 2011, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14965 times:

From avherald:

OPRN 201500Z 05030KT 4000 TS FEW025CB SCT030 BKN100 20/16 Q1014.3/29.95
OPRN 201400Z 23020KT 3000 TSRA FEW025CB SCT030 BKN100 20/16 Q1011.0/29.85
OPRN 201300Z 23020KT 4000 TS FEW025CB SCT030 BKN100 25/15 Q1009.3/29.80
OPRN 201220Z 23034KT 6000 HZ FEW030TCU SCT040 BKN100
OPRN 201200Z 13022KT 6000 FEW030TCU SCT040 BKN100 31/14 Q1008.8/29.79
OPRN 201110Z 13016KT 6000 RA FEW030TCU SCT040 BKN100
OPRN 201110Z 23034KT 6000 HZ FEW030TCU SCT040 BKN100
OPRN 201100Z 13016KT 6000 FEW030TCU SCT040 32/13 Q1009.1/29.79


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 40, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13546 times:

I've found this link of a local forum where someone posted miscellaneous pics of Bhoja Air and it's crew in better days.
I hesitated in posting it as it also contains a list of the passengers/victims...

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/airc...57-bad-news-bhoja-airplane-crash-4

It was probably a quick and painless event for the departed. I feel for the families.
RIP.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently online76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 532 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13337 times:

Quoting Aviational (Reply 36):
Eye witnesses around the area are saying that lightning struck the aircraft and it exploded right away !

Which is what eyewitnesses report at just about every crash...


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12149 times:

Reports now coming in that the pilots called in a Mayday, saying the engine / wing was on fire before the fuel tanks apparently exploded. This is as per ATC.

User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11775 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 41):
Which is what eyewitnesses report at just about every crash...

  

You can't trust eyewitnesses who don't know what they're looking at - practically every accident in the history of aviation has had eyewitnesses saying it was "on fire in the air".



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11496 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 40):
I've found this link of a local forum where someone posted miscellaneous pics of Bhoja Air and it's crew in better days.
I hesitated in posting it as it also contains a list of the passengers/victims...

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/airc...ash-4

Not sure what you mean by better days? The airline is less than a year old...

(It also existed between 1993 and 2000, but that was completely different)

[Edited 2012-04-21 04:27:12]


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineliquidair From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10567 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 42):

If combined with a lightning strike, could that suggest fuel ignition like Pan Am 214? I know it's just speculation, but sounds similar.

we have systems to prevent that happening now, right?

[Edited 2012-04-21 05:52:00]

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 46, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10496 times:

It appears that the crash was probably caused by the plane flying into a microburst during that thunderstorm and the pilots did not properly respond to the situation.  

User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1320 posts, RR: 52
Reply 47, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9482 times:
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Quoting RayChuang (Reply 46):
It appears that the crash was probably caused by the plane flying into a microburst during that thunderstorm and the pilots did not properly respond to the situation.

Basis?



rcair1
User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7531 posts, RR: 17
Reply 48, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9278 times:

Quoting cabso1 (Reply 5):
Reports are that this was the inaugural flight and that there are no survivors.

Bhoja restarted operations on 6 March when one of their 732s operated KHI-LHE (B4 115). It had previously ceased operations in 2000 due to financial difficulties.

Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD.

From The BA Source at:

http://thebasource.com/

"Today’s Bhoja Air crash in Pakistan in which 127 people lost their lives involved former British Airways Boeing 737-236ADV G-BKYI."

Quoting rj777 (Reply 21):
The PRINT article is referencing a 737-200, but the VIDEO is saying an Airbus A321. Same news outlet. "

Bhoja Air operated four Boeing 737 236s:

AP-AKB CN 21793. LN 635. Delivered as G-BGDD to British Airways in February '80 and then as ZS-NNG to Comair in September '95 returning to BA livery after Comair was appointed a British Airways franchise operator in October '96. Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKC CN 23167. LN 1074. Delivered as G-BYYI to British Airways in January '85 and then as ZS-OLB to Comair dba British Airways in June '99 . Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKD CN 23163. LN 1058. Delivered as G-BKYE to British Airways in November '80 and then as ZS-OLA to Comair dba British Airways in April '99 . Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKE CN 21797. LN 653. Delivered as G-BGDH to British Airways in April '80 and then as ZS-NNH to Comair in September '95 returning to BA livery )after Comair was appointed a British Airways franchise operator in October '96. Bhoja Air leased January '12.


User currently offlineFN1001 From Moldova, joined Sep 2008, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9222 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 46):
It appears that the crash was probably caused by the plane flying into a microburst during that thunderstorm

Speculation or fact? Any evidence at this time?



My prayers for the victims and the families.



Mai bine să-ţi fie rău decît să-ţi pară rău.
User currently offlineabnormal From UK - England, joined Aug 2007, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9040 times:

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 34):
I am surprised to see that so far there are only 33 postings regarding this major air crash. Hardly any speculation, except the weather.

Not enough specific or certain information to discuss and as the accident occurred in Pakistan, there may never be a full accident investigation report made available to the public.

As for myself, I'm kind of interested in the fact that this was an inaugural flight for a relatively new operator and as such there may have been a training/qualification aspect to it. Does the fact that a flight is a training flight affect crew judgement and affect decision making? If it turns out in this case that the weather at destination would normally have resulted in using an alternate, did the training aspect of this flight affected that decision? It wouldn't be the first time if it had.


User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 955 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8684 times:

Quoting liquidair (Reply 45):
If combined with a lightning strike, could that suggest fuel ignition like Pan Am 214? I know it's just speculation, but sounds similar.we have systems to prevent that happening now, right?

Re all the lightning speculation: not that this is necessarily the cause of THIS crash, but there are different types of lightning - negaitve and positive. Positive charge is far less common and apparently can be more powerful and dangerous... I have heard that "positive" lightning was blamed for the 1963 Pan Am crash, but don't know if that was ever a definitive finding.

Anyway, see the discussion of "Positive Lightning" half way down this page (Wikepedia, I know, but it was what my quick search found):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning
or see here:
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/jetstream/lightning/positive.htm

The Wickipedia page mentions that static discharge wicks may not be sufficient to protect an aircraft in the event of a positive charge. The statement references this link:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/q0234.shtml

Contains a good description of the static wick, but nothing about positive lightning.

If you want to know all about lightning and aircraft, search "lightning" and specify Tech/Ops - you will get thousands of hits, in dozens of threads about the technology, operational matters, composite aircraft, etc. etc. from people who actually know a little about it.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 52, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8510 times:

Quoting FN1001 (Reply 49):
Speculation or fact? Any evidence at this time?
http://dawn.com/2012/04/21/wind-shear-may-have-caused-the-tragedy/

Given that there was a severe thunderstorm near the airport at the time of the crash, that's why I think the wind shear from a "microburst" may have caused the plane to suddenly lose altitude and/or lose control. We'll find out when then FDR and CVR are analyzed from the crashed plane.


User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1320 posts, RR: 52
Reply 53, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8410 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 52):

I'm sorry - with all due respect, this article reads like speculation to me. Unfortunately, I think we will need to wait and given the location, I'm not highly confident that it will be well investigated or reported.



rcair1
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8373 times:

I was watching CTVnews channel this morning and the news anchor mistakenly said that a 747 had crashed in Pakistan.

I thought a 747 with only 127 passengers? Well it probably happened a few times.

[Edited 2012-04-21 10:41:15]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineLjungdahl From Sweden, joined Apr 2002, 907 posts, RR: 36
Reply 55, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7918 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 48):
Bhoja Air operated four Boeing 737 236s:

AP-AKB CN 21793. LN 635. Delivered as G-BGDD to British Airways in February '80 and then as ZS-NNG to Comair in September '95 returning to BA livery after Comair was appointed a British Airways franchise operator in October '96. Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKC CN 23167. LN 1074. Delivered as G-BYYI to British Airways in January '85 and then as ZS-OLB to Comair dba British Airways in June '99 . Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKD CN 23163. LN 1058. Delivered as G-BKYE to British Airways in November '80 and then as ZS-OLA to Comair dba British Airways in April '99 . Bhoja Air leased January '12.

AP-AKE CN 21797. LN 653. Delivered as G-BGDH to British Airways in April '80 and then as ZS-NNH to Comair in September '95 returning to BA livery )after Comair was appointed a British Airways franchise operator in October '96. Bhoja Air leased January '12.

Is that the correct regs?

Not AP-BKB, BKC, BKD and BKE?


User currently onlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7531 posts, RR: 17
Reply 56, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7678 times:

Quoting Ljungdahl (Reply 55):
Is that the correct regs?

Not AP-BKB, BKC, BKD and BKE?

Thanks for the correction.


User currently offlineat From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1039 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6088 times:

huh? Since when did either country have a terrible air safety record?

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 58, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4726 times:

Quoting mjabbasi (Reply 8):
My friend who works at KHI airport saw it take off and says it was AP-BKD. Lightening strike is being blamed as the cause of the crash.

BBC World news are currently reporting that the a/c exploded in the air. Not sure of the provenance of this report.

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 10):
Can lightening itself solely bring down an aircraft?
Quoting cbphoto (Reply 14):
Quoting KHI747 (Reply 10):
Can lightening itself solely bring down an aircraft?

In short, no lightning can't really bring down an aircraft! They are designed to take the lightning strike and discharge the electricity out the static wicks on the wings and tail. However, if their was a thunderstorm in the area, then their are other hazards that have to be looked at, including wind shear, micro bursts, or overall low cloud layers!

Yes it can, although properly maintained modern a/c should be able to tolerate a direct strike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_214

The outcome of this accident was to start using cover gases or air circulation in fuel tanks.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
Yes, and has done so before. However, if properly maintained, the lightning protection system would preserve the airframe.

Agreed, per above link.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 59, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3746 times:

Whats the preliminary report stating officially.......


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 59):
Whats the preliminary report stating officially.......

No preliminary report has been released yet. Investigators seem to be suggesting that it's probably a technical malfunction caused by poor maintenance, but the CAA is suggesting weather and pilot error as more likely causes.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

Black boxes will be returned from Washington on May 7th.


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
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