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AA To Finally Serve TLV?  
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 395 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10236 times:

Not off topic, but if this merger hooplah goes through between US & AA, would we lose TLV service? AA had the opportunity when it bought TW to serve TLV, but because of the politically charged reasons, it would cost AA a small fortune to compensate the TW - TLV staff they left stranded. Is this something Doug Parker could actually negotiate AA into the TLV market, giving AA their first Middle East city?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10249 times:

Bankruptcy will likely dismiss or dramaticly reduce (and pay off) AMR's debts to Israel, and leave AA free to serve TLV in any scenario.


a.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10168 times:

Actually US BK Court is not the arena to discharge a foreign court award. No US court can reverse a Israeli judgement.

Anyhow, very early in the BK process (matter of fact the 2nd hearing after the judge was confirmed) AA asked for and received permission to full-fill all pre-BK obligations owed to foreign parties. AA was very concerned that its operations could be compromised if it was unable to meet its obligations including payment of vendors, foreign taxes, and other fees for which it was already some $250mil in arrears at time of filing.

The Israeli situation will hang over AA until it is settled in Israel.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10066 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Actually US BK Court is not the arena to discharge a foreign court award. No US court can reverse a Israeli judgement.

U.S. Bankruptcy courts absolutely can discharge foreign debt. I don't know the nature of this debt; if it's a court judgment award, then, yes, that's not going to happen. But if AA really wants in on Israel, I'm pretty sure AA and Israel can reach a mutually beneficial solution.



a.
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4850 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10024 times:

if they do serve TLV I hope its nonstop from ORD and not JFK as the latter has enough capacity serving the route as it is.

with a more large hub structure at ORD connecting all of USA and Canada + most of all no current nonstop service to TLV out of ORD, the potential I feel is greater than versus JFK.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10017 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):

unless Israel has become part of the US, AMR will still owe that money, and all of it, and any money owed to any foreign parties. US bankruptcy is just that, US. The only way AA gets out of it is if they get a deal with Israel. US government has nothing to do with it.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):

If a US/AA merger goes down you can expect the debt will be paid. Parker is out there for sure but he isn't nearly as....questionable....as the people in AA's HQ.



yep.
User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9898 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Bankruptcy will likely dismiss or dramaticly reduce (and pay off) AMR's debts to Israel, and leave AA free to serve TLV in any scenario.

Absolutely wrong. Shalom!


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9840 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
U.S. Bankruptcy courts absolutely can discharge foreign debt

In theory, I guess so.

And Israel is still free to impound a plane when AA resumes service (if they ever do), since the obligations were incurred in Isreal, Israel can take the means to collect the debt since their laws apply in their country.

So AA will have to settle if they return to TLV.

I think the only real viable route for AA is from JFK that being said.

[Edited 2012-04-21 01:22:16]

User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9814 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 7):
In theory, I guess so.

And Israel is still free to impound a plane when AA resumes service (if they ever do), since the obligations were incurred in Isreal, Israel can take the means to collect the debt since their laws apply in their country.

So AA will have to settle if they return to TLV.

I think the only real viable route for AA is from JFK that being said.
PHL-TLV is said to be US' most profitable route...

If a combined US/AA added additional service to TLV it would be from MIA not from JFK IMHO

[Edited 2012-04-21 01:36:45]

User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6235 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9786 times:

Well the route at the momen for USt is through PHL, and has thus far proved viable. Should a merger happen I would assume the airlne would contnue it's operationsa at TLV since it is a profitable station. I dont know how all the cards would stack up in the event of merger, but I doubt they would move the flight to JFK. Yes NYC has impressive numbers to TLv you also have multiple flghts a day on LY, DL, UA (out of ewr)- all of of who have been serving the market for years. Let's not forget the one stop option on Euro carriers.


Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9749 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 5):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):

unless Israel has become part of the US, AMR will still owe that money, and all of it, and any money owed to any foreign parties. US bankruptcy is just that, US. The only way AA gets out of it is if they get a deal with Israel. US government has nothing to do with it.

Ever hear of Google? A simple Google search will show that U.S. bankruptcy discharges foreign debt. So you are absolutely wrong.

If AMR owes Israel a debt, it's probably settled or discharged.

If Israel has a court judgment against AMR (in other words, its not debt), it's not.

But the reality is this: if AMR wants to fly to Israel - and Israel is a country that is always desperate for new airline links - AMR and Israel will work to find an amicable solution.

[Edited 2012-04-21 01:44:16]


a.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9591 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):

Ever hear of Google? A simple Google search will show that U.S. bankruptcy discharges foreign debt. So you are absolutely wrong.

So maybe before you tell me I'm wrong you learn about things.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):

If Israel has a court judgment against AMR (in other words, its not debt), it's not.

So wait. your telling me to use google, and that I am wrong, when you have no idea what your talking about? Cool, because it is a court judgement. Also I'm not sure how its debt? It was employee benefits that TWA stopped paying when they pulled out of TLV. When AA bought the TWA assets the Israel courts ruled that AA must pay the money (which i believe is collecting interest). So not sure what else one could call it.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):

But the reality is this: if AMR wants to fly to Israel - and Israel is a country that is always desperate for new airline links - AMR and Israel will work to find an amicable solution.

This is true, very easy. AMR pays up or no fly. They will do so if they want to, or keep flying in a merger case, when they are ready. IIRC it was something like 50M so its not like its a big deal. They are just being typical AA about it.

Oh and one more thing. MAH, think about it this way, If TWA couldn't dump it in their BK what gives you the idea AA could?



yep.
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9447 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):

If Israel has a court judgment against AMR (in other words, its not debt), it's not.

So wait. your telling me to use google, and that I am wrong, when you have no idea what your talking about? Cool, because it is a court judgement. Also I'm not sure how its debt? It was employee benefits that TWA stopped paying when they pulled out of TLV. When AA bought the TWA assets the Israel courts ruled that AA must pay the money (which i believe is collecting interest). So not sure what else one could call it.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):

But the reality is this: if AMR wants to fly to Israel - and Israel is a country that is always desperate for new airline links - AMR and Israel will work to find an amicable solution.

This is true, very easy. AMR pays up or no fly. They will do so if they want to, or keep flying in a merger case, when they are ready. IIRC it was something like 50M so its not like its a big deal. They are just being typical AA about it.

Oh and one more thing. MAH, think about it this way, If TWA couldn't dump it in their BK what gives you the idea AA could?

Exactly. I think Israel is doing fine without AA, they have US, DL, and UA. It will be AA paying what they owe in a settlement if AA decides to return.

Of course this is a legal matter, and would have to be settled before AA can return.

Using the google, all the articles I have seen on this matter say it is 9-18 million, with interest of course.


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9328 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 12):
Using the google, all the articles I have seen on this matter say it is 9-18 million, with interest of course.

You do have to wonder why for such a fairly paltry sum for an Airline as big as AA with revenues in the many many billions of dollars that they didnt just pay up and get on with life.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9256 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
if they do serve TLV I hope its nonstop from ORD and not JFK as the latter has enough capacity serving the route as it is.

ORD has been slowly declining in number of flights at ORD, overseas and domestic, Although ORD-TLV would have little competition, unlike NYC-TLV, the fact remains ORD has not seen much love from AA in a while.

with a more large hub structure at ORD connecting all of USA and Canada + most of all no current nonstop service to TLV out of ORD, the potential I feel is greater than versus JFK.

Agreed, but MIA is a much better idea for a new US/AA. Since what I've heard is that the AA name would survive, I doubt there will be any way AA could just wash away the debt, and quite rightly so. TW owed this money, AA took them over, and absorbed that debt, they should pay it, it may become one of the things they must clear up before exiting BK.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8):
If a combined US/AA added additional service to TLV it would be from MIA not from JFK IMHO

You beat me to it, you're right, MIA should be the next city for TLV service. If AA got themselves together long ago, and started this route, once their debt was paid, maybe they'd be doing slightly better. I know "one route doesn't make an airline profitable or not, but AA would have most likely added other spokes to the MIA hub by now too, like JNB or CPT.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8500 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9150 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
TW owed this money, AA took them over, and absorbed that debt, they should pay it, it may become one of the things they must clear up before exiting BK.

TWA declared chapter 11, then AA purchased most of TWA's assets. AA did NOT merge with TWA absorbing all its debts and obligations.


User currently offlinegizmonc From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9001 times:

Does anyone have the dollar amount that the TWA TLV employees were awarded it would be interesting to know the WHOLE AMOUNT?

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8913 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
TWA declared chapter 11, then AA purchased most of TWA's assets. AA did NOT merge with TWA absorbing all its debts and obligations

Well apparently this is one that AA does owe, at least according to an Israeli court.

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 16):
Does anyone have the dollar amount that the TWA TLV employees were awarded it would be interesting to know the WHOLE AMOUNT?

I'm sure it's not worth having an aircraft seized for.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8500 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8899 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
Well apparently this is one that AA does owe, at least according to an Israeli court.

The debts of TWA in Israel are owed by AA. In 2001 AA purchased TWA assets not a "full" merger with AA absorbing TWA's debts.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8821 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 7):
I think the only real viable route for AA is from JFK that being said.

Current:

PHL-TLV

Future?

MIA-TLV



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinebeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1797 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8591 times:

Rumor has it that LY would be moving over to T8 here at JFK also did not AA and LY have a quiet code share agreement in place plus is it also a possibility that LY is trying to join Oneworld.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

A US court can discharge debts on a worldwide basis – for those debts to be collected in the US. There is no legal requirement for any foreign sovereign nation however to accept the US judgement in their territory. Its akin to a foreign court making decisions about things here domestically in the US.

If wiping foreign debt away was such an easy task without repercussions, surely AMR would be glad to do it. But its not, and AA would have to pursue actions separately under each foreign country’s laws, a very complex and time consuming process which could stall its efforts back here at home in the mean time. Hence as I stated prior to this end, in one of the earliest court hearings, AA affirmed its intent to meet its obligations overseas as it could not risk foreign authoritirs or parties maving against it if they felt AA was not going to cover its liabilities.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
TWA declared chapter 11, then AA purchased most of TWA's assets. AA did NOT merge with TWA absorbing all its debts and obligations.

Per press story at the time:

"Regulatory approval was granted Friday by the U.S. Department of Justice for Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR Corp.'s deal to pay $742 million for the airline, plus the assumption of $3.5 billion in debt."

Further, an important legal distinction is that AA became the "successor" company to TWA. This establishes a legal connection between TWA and AA. In other words, TWA did not simply disappear into the ashes as an enterprise, but its business continued operate with the same property, people and name simply under a new owner.

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 16):
Does anyone have the dollar amount that the TWA TLV employees were awarded it would be interesting to know the WHOLE AMOUNT?

The initial amount was $18 million in salaries and benefits. After 10-years I'm sure the amount has morphed.
I read someplace the penalty for non payment accrued additional at $100/mo per employee per the Israel Labor Ministry judgement, but cannot personally confirm.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8091 times:

Sorry MAH4056 you are wrong.

While a US Court can discharge claims of a Foreign Claim being collected in the US - it can't discharge a foreign claim collected ina foreign country. In this case, AA would have to file for whatever bankruptcy relief is available in Israel. For example, if AA didn't file whatever bankruptcy relief is available in every country it flies into, and the debtor is a foreign company , the debt owed by AA is not covered in the current US bankruptcy petition. Let's say the catering company in Barcelona is a Spanish owned company sending bills to the AA office in Spain - and AA owed them $10 mililion USD - that debt is not covered by the current bankruptcy petition if AA didn't file bankruptcy in Spain. If the caterer was a US company operating in Spain, it would be covered under the US case.

I know for certain that UA DL & NW didn't file bankruptcy in any foregin jurisdictions.

In this case, the Israeli court judgement is owed in Israel to an Israeli jurisdiction - so AA still owes the money. In the grand scheme of things, it was approximately $25 million USD - so AA could pay it if it wants in on Israel. But AA's lacks of knowing which markets to serve and how to compete over the last 10 years - has led it to the pathetic situation it is in today. From market leader to a subpar product - the Isarel market is served by stronger competitors of AA - DL & UA.


User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8091 times:

Why was LY unsuccesful at MIA while LAX kept going?

User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8031 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 7):
In theory, I guess so.

And Israel is still free to impound a plane when AA resumes service (if they ever do), since the obligations were incurred in Isreal, Israel can take the means to collect the debt since their laws apply in their country.

So AA will have to settle if they return to TLV.

I think the only real viable route for AA is from JFK that being said.
PHL-TLV is said to be US' most profitable route...

I don't doubt PHL does very well. I meant a NEW route. Sorry for the confusion.

It could be MIA. It just seems routes to TLV work best from Los Angeles and the Northeast. ATL definitely failed for DL, which is not a good sign, one of the best hubs in the world..

But we can guess and prognosticate all day.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 25, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8370 times:

Oh and regarding the comment above on AA-LY code-share, the parties have been unable to fully implement the 2009 agreement due to Israel having been downgraded to IASA Category II.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6533 posts, RR: 9
Reply 26, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8184 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 5):
unless Israel has become part of the US, AMR will still owe that money, and all of it, and any money owed to any foreign parties. US bankruptcy is just that, US. The only way AA gets out of it is if they get a deal with Israel. US government has nothing to do with it.

What legal training or knowledge do you have to make that statement?


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2442 posts, RR: 23
Reply 27, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7743 times:

Although this topic is about TLV, I cant help but wonder about LIS and ATH, I'd imagine AA would still be flying into those two cities right?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineB767300ER From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6619 times:
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As far as I am aware, and I was on the last flight of TW 85 from TLV as a F/A, there were fuel bills owed, and that was why
flights 84/85 were not refueled in TLV but made a fuel stop in Cyprus on the outward trip as well as hotel bills due for TW
crews in TLV. And, then there was the question of pensions owed to employees of TW in Israel. So it was a messy
situation. A similar situation developed in CAI but I understood the US Govt. stepped in with a compensation offer that
was accepted. From my own limited observation if AA were to start TLV service it should be from ORD and or MIA,
although I would prefer my company, DL, start a MIA TLV service, perhaps ATL-MIA-TLV-MIA-ATL, wishful thinking.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8500 posts, RR: 6
Reply 29, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6045 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
"Regulatory approval was granted Friday by the U.S. Department of Justice for Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR Corp.'s deal to pay $742 million for the airline, plus the assumption of $3.5 billion in debt."

Of Course AA absorbed some TWA debts, they had leases on TWA airplanes and TWA airport leases at all the airports they flew to.


User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 747 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

US courts can only prevent foreign debt to be collected in the US, why would a sovereign nation be bound to us bankruptcy law, overall if AA wants TLV they are going to pay something for it.


I have always wondered why ORD-TLV has never really happened,I know LY stopped I. YYZ when they did serve ord.


User currently offlineEL-AL From Israel, joined Oct 2001, 1354 posts, RR: 13
Reply 31, posted (2 years 8 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

First, we need to remember that what AA did was disgusting - TWA employees in Israel were fired without getting their rights according to Israeli low. We talk about Israeli employees, in Israel, so there is no dough that the case falls under the Israeli low. Some worked for TWA for 30 years or more and found their office locked without any warning. Pilots flew the 763 empty as fast as they could back to the US as they know their airline is breaking the low.

According to Israeli low, an employee who is been fired is getting compensation fir the number of years he/she worked at the same place. For people worked for TWA decades (TWA served Israel since the late 1940s!) we talk about a lot of money they are rewarded to get by low.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
U.S. Bankruptcy courts absolutely can discharge foreign debt. I don't know the nature of this debt; if it's a court judgment award, then, yes, that's not going to happen. But if AA really wants in on Israel, I'm pretty sure AA and Israel can reach a mutually beneficial solution.

This is not true. In Israel, as in any democracy, the justice system is separated from the government and the parliament, and non of them can make a decision against a ruling of a court. Thus, the ministry of transportation or any other part of the government can't solve the AA case without fulfilling the court decision.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 7):
And Israel is still free to impound a plane when AA resumes service (if they ever do), since the obligations were incurred in Isreal, Israel can take the means to collect the debt since their laws apply in their country.

Exactly. When Malev went bust it had a $400,000 dept to the Israel Airport Authority, which refused to release MA's B737 in TLV till the dept was paid by the plane owner (leasing company).



"In Israel, on order to be a realist, one's must believe in miracles" - David Ben Gurion.
User currently offlineIndustryInsider From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):

Oh and regarding the comment above on AA-LY code-share, the parties have been unable to fully implement the 2009 agreement due to Israel having been downgraded to IASA Category II.

You're right, AA cannot codeshare on LY but LY is codesharing on AA right now.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 33, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

I don't think that a merged AA-US will stop serving TLV. If anything, they will add MIA-TLV and perhaps shift PHL-TLV to JFK. AA is way overdue on MIA-TLV and, in the event of a merger, perhaps having an existing, very profitable station at TLV will make it easier for them to add service.

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 23):
Why was LY unsuccesful at MIA while LAX kept going?

They were operating TLV-MIA on an old, fuel guzzling 762 at a time of record-high oil prices. It was never going to last. I'm sure LY would love to return to MIA though (but Israel is not back to Category 1 yet).

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 31):
First, we need to remember that what AA did was disgusting - TWA employees in Israel were fired without getting their rights according to Israeli low. We talk about Israeli employees, in Israel, so there is no dough that the case falls under the Israeli low. Some worked for TWA for 30 years or more and found their office locked without any warning. Pilots flew the 763 empty as fast as they could back to the US as they know their airline is breaking the low.

It was sad indeed. Please correct me if I'm wrong but this was pretty common for TWA, no? I'm referring to having long-serving local employees all over the world. You just don't really see that today I guess...


User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6235 posts, RR: 11
Reply 34, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

In the event of a merger I do not see the PHL flight being shifted up to JFK, just can't see it. The current PHL flight works and as said before JFK has many players on the route.

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1213 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3334 times:
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IF US is successful in acquiring AA,and takes on the AA brand, I am wondering if the Israeli court could extend their judgement for payment of the severance moneys owed to the TWA employees against the ''new'' American Airlines and make it impossible for the entity to operate the current PHL TLV. The Israeli court could interpret the new company as being successor of those obligations. After all one of the assets being acquired if the US deal goes through would be the American brand itself so they could order the inpoundment of any asset carrying the American name?


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4142 posts, RR: 8
Reply 36, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 34):
In the event of a merger I do not see the PHL flight being shifted up to JFK, just can't see it. The current PHL flight works and as said before JFK has many players on the route.

Just more of the ad nauseum "JFK>anything else" attitude on here. Forget that JFK is slot restricted and can't handle the domestic connections needed to properly feed a legacy-style hub. If it were up to all the armchair CEOs every flight to Europe would be routed through New York.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 37, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 35):
IF US is successful in acquiring AA,and takes on the AA brand, I am wondering if the Israeli court could extend their judgement for payment of the severance moneys owed to the TWA employees against the ''new'' American Airlines and make it impossible for the entity to operate the current PHL TLV. The Israeli court could interpret the new company as being successor of those obligations. After all one of the assets being acquired if the US deal goes through would be the American brand itself so they could order the inpoundment of any asset carrying the American name?

Probably so. Unless the debt has been settled somehow in Israel, it will still exist, unless AA completely folds.

I am sure if AA and US merge, Israel will call US and have a chat.

I think it was very shortsighted of AA to do this. Very irresponsible. So, they are just going to not fly to Israel ever again rather than pay some back-pay and benefits. Totally unbelievable. Actually it is believable. I stand corrected.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 38, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 35):

IF US is successful in acquiring AA,and takes on the AA brand, I am wondering if the Israeli court could extend their judgement for payment of the severance moneys owed to the TWA employees against the ''new'' American Airlines and make it impossible for the entity to operate the current PHL TLV. The Israeli court could interpret the new company as being successor of those obligations. After all one of the assets being acquired if the US deal goes through would be the American brand itself so they could order the inpoundment of any asset carrying the American name?

Probably. Even in the parallel universe that they decide to call the new airline "US Airways", Israel can still legally continue the outstanding claims.

A brand name is just a name. As long as the new legal entity encompasses the 2 incoming old entities, all liabilities are assumed. I think what MAH is referring is that US court can discharge any debt from one's balance sheet in BK (that's just an accounting adjustment) ... but that does not mean the foreign outstanding claim is nullified.

It was poor judgement on AA's part to let go of such a large market for the sake of bailing a debt (CO was having a field day with that route), but it would be worse judgement if US+AA is forced to drop PHL-TLV because of this.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 39, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 38):
It was poor judgement on AA's part to let go of such a large market for the sake of bailing a debt (CO was having a field day with that route), but it would be worse judgement if US+AA is forced to drop PHL-TLV because of this.

The new AA management will have access to the data of how PHL-TLV is performing (or if US management takes over they will already know....). I'm sure that if AA wants to continue to operate PHL-TLV or any other route to TLV, then they will settle their claims with ex-TW employees and be done with the matter.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 40, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 38):
It was poor judgement on AA's part to let go of such a large market for the sake of bailing a debt (CO was having a field day with that route), but it would be worse judgement if US AA is forced to drop PHL-TLV because of this.

Absolutely correct. Not just poor judgment but a catastrophe. When CO entered the TLV market their only US based competition was TW and Tower Air. Delta had not entered the market yet even.

AA left the TLV reasons citing economic reasons. They left the market before they left CAI and RUH:

http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/2001/israel/mar/06/0103060001.html


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 41, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2820 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 40):
Delta had not entered the market yet even.

Delta did operate JFK-TLV briefly before 9/11.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 42, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 41):

Delta did operate JFK-TLV briefly before 9/11.

Correct, but klwright69 stated;

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 40):
When CO entered the TLV market their only US based competition was TW and Tower Air. Delta had not entered the market yet even.

CO was in the TLV market before DL's first foray into the US-TLV market. CO launched EWR-TLV in 1999, two years before DL launched their first JFK-TLV route in 2001.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 43, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 2443 times:

Israel is a market AA missed the boat with.....

Back in 2006 Larry Kellner said TLV was CO's strongest market --

"Of the 230 destinations that Continental Airlines flies to across the globe, Israel is the strongest," declares CEO and chairman Larry Kellner in his first visit.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-156024394.html


And in 2009, CO's SVP of Global Sales said if not for the global economic slowdown and 787 delays, they would have added a 3rd daily flight to TLV.

http://www.jpost.com/LandedPages/PrintArticle.aspx?id=153941



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