Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Shocked By AA Union Support For AA/US Merger  
User currently offlinekakk80 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 4 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9251 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Is anyone else shocked by the AA Union support for AA/US merger/takeover? I'm an AA reservations agent, and I actually think an eventual merger with US might be a good thing, but I'm also a realist, and believe that the merger will result in pay cuts, and layoffs that match what AA plans to do, and there will at least be a downsizing in a hub or 2. I know promises have been made, but do our Union employees honestly believe everything that CEO Doug Parker has promised them, and that they will get a better deal? I find the whole thing utterly unbelievable!! Like I said, I'm open to a merger, but I don't know why so many fellow employees are so solidly behind it

Look at the link below to an article written 5 years ago about Doug Parker. Yes, it's 5 years old, but I don't think much as changed since then, or his philosphy on running an airline.

I'm just curious what everyone else's take on the situation is. Thanks

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...chive/2007/04/30/8405477/index.htm

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9161 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Not shocked at all. US is being extremely crafty. They're leveraging AA unions' discontent with management. Very smart move on Parker's part.


It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9108 times:

I think your unions, though radical and unrealistic at times, have been paying attention, thinking logically, and realize the future AA is not planned as a major airline. I agree. IMHO, AA is being set up as a major ticket seller. Those tickets will be in AA jackets, but few of the flights will be on AA equipment. Outsourcing.

Coast to coast, hub to hub, and some international will be AA. Most domestic will be contracted out, or drawn heavily from codeshares.

BA,IB, and Oneworld will fly a lot of international. That will benefit all, but again, I believe AA may be focused on feeding them as much as their own Intl.

Shrewd move by Mr. Parker.

Don Carty and his execs did irreparable damage to the labor relations at AA. The leadership teams following Carty didn't shoot straight either. Cuts should have been made earlier, and in an up front, here's the facts Bob Crandall kind of way.

I believe AA's management and unions are jointly culpable for the situation AA is in. Management doesn't want to lose control, yet, if they had truly maintained control, AA wouldn't be where it is now.

As for the unions, it's interesting to see them take this course. It beats "full pay til the last day" or burn it to the ground non-sense we've seen in other situations.

[Edited 2012-04-21 18:37:22]


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 770 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8941 times:

The one thing pilots and FA's hate ... the feeling that someone is getting a better deal than they are. AA mgmt has always asked from labor while at the same time, gifting themselves with bonuses and cash. The one thing US Airways is good at is running a lean, no bs, operation. Maybe labor just sees them as the lesser of evils.

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3354 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8681 times:

Presumably, employees are willing to take a salary cut and/or seniority bump in exchange for not being unemployed altogether.

User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8530 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 3):
The one thing pilots and FA's hate ... the feeling that someone is getting a better deal than they are. AA mgmt has always asked from labor while at the same time, gifting themselves with bonuses and cash. The one thing US Airways is good at is running a lean, no bs, operation. Maybe labor just sees them as the lesser of evils.
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 4):
Presumably, employees are willing to take a salary cut and/or seniority bump in exchange for not being unemployed altogether.

Why do some assume that the unions are causing profit problems? How low should an airline workers pay be? AMT's, Pilots, FA's, Rampers. Heck we could all work for minimum wage and let the top of the heap just keep giving themselves raises/bonuses/golden parachutes.

I will preface the above statement, I do not work for AA or US, but I do work in this industry and have for 30 years. There has to be a point at which the above mentioned employee groups say enough is enough. If there are folks that are willing to work at minimum wages then so be it. Quit blaming it on unions or non union employees who finally say NO MORE!!! Why would I work a hot/cold/freezing job when I could do the same in a climate controlled burger joint. I am being ridiculous but so are all of the folks who say "why don't they just take a pay cut".

Would I vote No on a wage/benefit package that is fair? Nope. Would I vote No for a package that is the same but leaves the top tiers unaffected. Absolutely. So would y'all if you were in that same boat/airplane. Just my opinions of course, just keep in the back of your mind, what would you really do?


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3354 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8478 times:

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 5):
Why do some assume that the unions are causing profit problems? How low should an airline workers pay be? AMT's, Pilots, FA's, Rampers. Heck we could all work for minimum wage and let the top of the heap just keep giving themselves raises/bonuses/golden parachutes.

I didn't mean my post to come off as anti-union at all. I've worked as an airline CSA making my $9.46/hour while having all sorts of insults and ill wishes cast at me. Most of the times, I support the unions because they're fighting for legitimate causes.

I was just pointing out that there's no reason to be shocked that the unions are in support of this merger because they realize that it may be in their best interest now that AA is in survival mode. Please do not lump me in with the union haters, because it couldn't be any further from the truth.

[Edited 2012-04-21 21:32:46]

User currently offline737tdi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8414 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 6):
I didn't mean my post to come off as anti-union at all. I've worked as an airline CSA making my $9.46/hour while having all sorts of insults and ill wishes cast at me. Most of the times, I support the unions because they're fighting for legitimate causes.

It did not come off as anti-union, I only quoted these 2 posts because of the positives and negatives that become associated with one airline taking over, merging, etc. of another airline. (I hope that makes sense). Alot of negatives become piled on the airline worker when they really are not the problem. They/we are working our shifts and trying to do a good job but the said worker is denigrated as if he/she is a slacker. It really gets monotonous and sickening. This is my career, it is not a job when you invest the amount of time and money in becoming a good/great employee of said company. Again this is not my job, it is my career, I plan on doing it until I am dead and buried. Heck, I have $20,000+ invested in tools alone. Kinda hard to make that up making small wages.

[Edited 2012-04-21 21:44:18]

User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4014 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Quoting kakk80 (Thread starter):
I know promises have been made, but do our Union employees honestly believe everything that CEO Doug Parker has promised them, and that they will get a better deal?

A merged AA/US would have similar total revenue to Delta and United and 30 thousand more employees. Logically, to be cost-competitive, the companies if merged today would have to shed those 30 thousand jobs.

Nothing of what has been announced so far adds up.



Stop pop up ads
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17503 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8341 times:

I can't *wait* to hear what these union leaders spin this when this inevitably blows up in their face.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8266 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting incitatus (Reply 8):

How many of those are management jobs?


I still think a lot of those will be bunion jobs, but you can't have two CEOs...and yes this will blow up in the unions face... Who ever ends up to be most junior.



Boiler Up!
User currently offlineIndustryInsider From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8202 times:

As I joking said in another thread, US will offer the moon to the AA unions and the US unions to help push through a deal. Once AA/US merge and now cost are even higher, US will return to the bankruptcy courts and throw out all the contracts citing that the labor costs are just way too high post merger. An "easy" way to fix the current US union issues, right?

Again, before anyone flames me for the above statement, it is only a joke. It is not as dumb as some of the other things I've been reading though.

I totally understand why the AA unions are listening to US. Who can blame them for looking for the best deal possible for themselves? I surely can't even though I personally think they are being very shortsighted. Everyone wants as much job security and compensation as they can get. If you or anyone says they don't, then I would say that person is either crazy or a liar. I can't really afford to take a pay cut and I surely can't afford to lose my job, so why does everybody think that it is unreasonable for the AA unions to feel the same way. I do think that some individuals have been acting very childish regarding the matter though.

Additionally, I would also like to share that I am personally of the anti-union mindset. Even so, I can't begrudge the unions for thinking the way they do in this situation. With that said, I certainly don't think that the AA union leaders are being 100% truthful with themselves and the general public let alone truthful with their own union rank and file. It is just my opinion and based on things I have seen and read over many years as an aviation consultant and analyst. Does that make me right? Heck no and I know this already so no one should feel obligated to tell me the same.

-Disclaimer- The opinions expressed here are solely mine and are not intended to represent those of any group.

I figured since this is all headed to court on Monday, I might as well sound all legal-like, eh.


User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8065 times:

Kakk80 - I see you are in DFW area, so I assume you work at the SRO.

We (you) don't have to wait for Parker to announce hub closings/layoffs/station downsizing, etc. AA is doing plenty of that wihtout his help. Ask your collegues at the SWRO how they are feeling after AA just announced that office is closing. As AA continues to outsource, could the SRO be next?

What you are suggesting could happen "down the road" is not any different than what happened in 2003 at AA. Take this deal and things will be better.. Share the sacrifice AND the rewards. What has your reward been? Certainly not that $50 occassional (rare) CE payout. And yet, here we are 8 years later hearing the same mantra.. So, not alot has changed with Doug Parker since that article was written 5 years ago.. What has changed at AA?

This isn't ALL about paycuts/benefits.. Its also about AA's business plan, which many, including wall street/airline analysts etc don't think is enough, coupled with the labor cuts, to sustain AMR. There is no direction with the current AMR management, and that seems to be the consenus of even the biggest AA fans.

Not everyone is delusional. The grass is not always greener on the other side, but it might not be as brown.

AA ORD


User currently offlinetpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8020 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I can't *wait* to hear what these union leaders spin this when this inevitably blows up in their face.

It will all be mgmt "stabbing them in the back", which will mandate a cut in pay, but increase in union dues.


Has there EVER been a case when the union does an end run around their own leadership (even if it is bad) that is turns out well?


I am sure this will all end poorly.


User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1010 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7883 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):
I think your unions realize the future AA is not planned as a major airline. AA is being set up as a major ticket seller. Those tickets will be in AA jackets, but few of the flights will be on AA equipment.

Coast to coast, hub to hub, and some international will be AA. Most domestic will be contracted out, or drawn heavily from codeshares.

  




Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):

Don Carty and his execs did irreparable damage to the labor relations at AA.

Well stated. This is precisely why Mr. Parker's overtures are much more palatable to AA's unions...



United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7800 times:

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 3):
. AA mgmt has always asked from labor while at the same time, gifting themselves with bonuses and cash

Kind of mirrors the situation at AC. AC has other issues to deal with, for sure, but this is a big one.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7277 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

There is a current thread on the AA union support for an AA / US merger available, with enough scope available to discuss this issue as well. This thread will thus be locked for housekeeping purposes only. Any posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only.

US Airways Strikes Merger Deal With AA Unions Part 1

US Airways Strikes Merger Deal With AA Unions Part 2


Enjoy the website!  


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Strike One For UA-US Merger posted Thu Sep 21 2000 16:53:26 by PVDFlier
AA And US Buying Joint Domain Names For Merger? posted Mon Mar 12 2012 09:22:27 by bigphilnyc
OAG Changes 3/16/2012: AA/DL/US posted Wed Mar 14 2012 10:28:41 by enilria
What Would A Merged AA And US Look Like? posted Sun Nov 20 2011 07:10:15 by cjpmaestro
OAG Changes 4/9/2010: AA/DL/US posted Thu Apr 8 2010 12:56:11 by enilria
SRB Complains About AA/BA "merger" posted Thu May 14 2009 08:37:45 by MasseyBrown
AA Applies For Add'l US-Russia Frequency Eff May09 posted Wed May 7 2008 11:46:22 by LAXintl
Merger: AA/Alaska Air Merger? posted Sat Apr 12 2008 06:10:10 by CIDflyer
AA To US At PHX. How? posted Mon Dec 17 2007 13:15:07 by LatinTraveller
AA And US Aircrafts (HELP) posted Fri May 25 2007 06:21:58 by MEACEDAR