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OLT Express To Add 40+ Routes From 4 Airports  
User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5909 times:

In recent days OLT Express Poland have announced that they will open a large number of new european routes from Poland starting in late October. The carrier plans to open the following routes:

Gdansk to:

Amsterdam - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Brussels - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Frankfurt Hahn - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Hamburg - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Cologne - Daily A319 (Begins 29th October)
London Gatwick - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Marseille - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 01st November)
Memmingen - Daily A319 (Begins 29th October)
Paris Orly - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 31st October)
Reykjavik - Weekly A320 (Begins 2nd November)
Rome (FCO) - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)
Venice - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Verona - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)

http://www.oltexpress.com/en/rozklad_lotow/gdn

Lodz to:

Barcelona - Weekly A320 (Begins 3rd November)
Edinburgh - Weekly A320 (Begins 4th November)
Frankfurt Hahn - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)
Paris Orly - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 31st October)
Rome (FCO) - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)

http://www.oltexpress.com/en/rozklad_lotow/lodz

Rzesow to:

Amsterdam - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)
Dortmund - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Hamburg - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)
Memmingen - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Oslo - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 31st October)
Paris Orly - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Rome (FCO) - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)

http://www.oltexpress.com/en/rozklad_lotow/rze

Warsaw to:

Amsterdam - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Brussels - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Frankfurt Hahn - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)
Gothenburg - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 31st October)
Hamburg - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Cologne - Daily A330 (Begins 29th October)
London Gatwick - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Lyon - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Milan Bergamo - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)
Memmingen - Daily A320 (Begins 31st October)
Munster Osnabruck - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 31st October)
Paris Orly - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 30th October)
Rome FCO - 3 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Saarbrucken - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Stuttgart - Daily A320 (Begins 29th October)
Venice - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 29th October)
Verona - 2 x Weekly A320 (Begins 31st October)

http://www.oltexpress.com/en/rozklad_lotow/waw


OLT currently operates a fleet of 6 180 seater A320's with 6 more expected to join the fleet by October. The carrier also plans to add up to 8 156 seater A319's

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePezySPU From Croatia, joined Dec 2011, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

And these are all scheduled flights, not charter?

User currently offlineGdabski From Poland, joined Oct 2001, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

Scheduled. A multi-million extravaganza, isn't it?  

User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5536 times:

And prices starting at 30€ incl fees, bag and food on board. Nice, but who will pay this?

User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1247 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

Quoting flyingbird (Reply 3):
And prices starting at 30€ incl fees, bag and food on board. Nice, but who will pay this?

This is paid by Amber Gold, the owner of the 4 airline ventures now all trading under some sort of OLT name (2 in Germany Cirrus & OLT, 2 in Poland Jet Air and Yes Airways).

Amber Gold is a polish company who take deposits from people for 10-16 % per annum. Instead of Gold they are investing for example tons of money to these airlines. Basically Amber Gold is doing a banking business without the license. Which would lead to immediate closure of the de-facto bank in most civilized countries doesn't interest anyone in Poland.

Let's see if the government will bail out LOT and EuroLOT in some way.



Fly easyJet
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5087 times:

While some of the routes make some sense, a lot of the others make me really wonder where the demand for this is supposed to come from (i.e. 180 seats a day from both GDN and WAW to FMM ..., Wizz Air could not make KTW-FMM work several times weekly) or why they would start routes with very seasonal demand that might work in summer in the winter timetable (Reykjavik, Marseilles etc.). Why fly to SCN and HHN from WAW? I am not convinced yet.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1684 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4965 times:

The beginning of the end for OLT Express...come on: 180Y on RZE-AMS v.v.....

and......head-on competition with Eurolot on GDN-AMS v.v.

Like Thomas_Jaeger says above: too ambitious and prone to fail !!!

[Edited 2012-04-25 01:01:12]


don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2376 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4789 times:

Are they maybe operating the airline in a similar fashion to how they operate Amber Gold? Sell a lot of cheap tickets now for the future to finance ...?


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

The could try a Ponzi scheme, each passenger enjoying a cheap fare has to bring in four passengers to qualify for the flight. And so on....

Now, I don't talke the schedule serious. Besides the fact that FR has opened CGN now with a limited service, for a start up flying to HHN, CGN and SCN simply means someone has not done his marleting. These three are too close together and CGN is the closest to where people live. Why taking a ride to the boonies. That even applies to people living north of FRA., in the metroplex.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently onliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4673 times:

Some of ther routes may make sense, but not the capacity nor frequencies offered. This all looks highly speculative to me. But I'll try to enjoy the new flights to HAM while the airline lasts.  

What I don't understand is that OLT Poland does not seem to have any operational link to OLT Germany. Despite being the same holding company, they operate as completely separate entities with separate booking systems, and don't even codeshare. You'd think they would try to get economies of scale?


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19192 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

Here are The Route Shop enteries for 3 of the 4 Polish airports per the opening post:

http://www.therouteshop.com/rzeszow-airport/

http://www.therouteshop.com/lodz-airport/

http://www.therouteshop.com/warsaw-airport/

There is quite some overlap (less so for WAW) between what the airport seeks (based upon research and knowledge) and what the carrier will provide.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1247 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

No matter if Ponzi Scheme or not, I must say that the branding and also the TV spots which are really running every day on main stations in Poland are really nice to watch, so the marketing is the same aggressive as the one from Amber Gold and must be very, very expensive !

Nice to see though that LOT really has decreased the prices and now giving out 3x miles for domestic flights, even on cheap tickets. For the customer may be a good thing after all and only for limited time.



Fly easyJet
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19192 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

More routes!

Bydgoszcz to:

Bristol
Cork
Dortmund
Edinburgh
Frankfurt/Hahn
Krakow
Liverpool
London/Gatwick
Milan/Bergamo
Munich/Memmingen
Newcastle
Paris/Orly
Rome/Fumicino



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently onliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
More routes!

With what aircraft and scheduling, I ask myself? Likely low frequencies and tight scheduling given the sheer amount. Sounds a bit like the recent VCE startup Volotea... how are they doing by the way? Not to go off topic, but to have a comparison with a similarly aggressive expansion strategy.


User currently offlinekonrad From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 13):
With what aircraft and scheduling, I ask myself?

Mostly A320s configured for 180pax, some A319s with 156 seats. ATRs 72 and 42 are used for smaller domestic routes.

Simply crazy. Is it some money laundering scheme?


User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1247 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Quoting konrad (Reply 14):

Simply crazy. Is it some money laundering scheme?

Nobody would be able to answer you here on this forum.
Friends of mine telling me that the load factors on at least some of the major domestic routes are very good, like more than 90 % on the Airbus. So looks like the demand is there to fly domestic for approx 30 US$ the cheapest one way ticket incl. tax. To fill the plane with such cheap tickets is for sure working, since Warsaw - Wroclaw (345 KM) you would need 5-6 hours by car and about the same or more by train and the cost is more or less equal.

The question is, if they can operate an A320 profitable on this block 0:45h flight with such prices, which also include the VAT for domestic transport, airport taxes and fee's etc.



Fly easyJet
User currently onliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 15):
load factors on at least some of the major domestic routes are very good, like more than 90 % on the Airbus. So looks like the demand is there to fly domestic for approx 30 US$ the cheapest one way ticket incl. tax. To fill the plane with such cheap tickets is for sure working, since Warsaw - Wroclaw (345 KM) you would need 5-6 hours by car and about the same or more by train and the cost is more or less equal.

The question is, if they can operate an A320 profitable on this block 0:45h flight with such prices, which also include the VAT for domestic transport, airport taxes and fee's etc.

Anyone can fill an A320 at those fares, but profitably? And in the mid-term, Polish domestic flying will decrease as road and rail infrastructure is improved. Many distances involved are not too long, but the inadequate ground infrastructure makes them take long... for now.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19192 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3312 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 16):
Anyone can fill an A320 at those fares

Those are obviously promotional prices, i.e. from prices, hence an earlier poster stating "cheapest one way ticket incl. tax."

Quoting r2rho (Reply 13):
Likely low frequencies

What's wrong with that? Their international flights will be mainly for VFR and tourist reasons, so higher frequencies typically aren't needed - especially on such thin routes e.g. from RZE, BZG...

[Edited 2012-04-27 06:34:52]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 17):
Those are obviously promotional prices, i.e. from prices, hence an earlier poster stating "cheapest one way ticket incl. tax."

You can call them what you like, OLT says they will sell half the tickets for 99 PLN.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

That is € 23,72, amazing. how much do they charge for vaggage, carry-on, reserved seat, vodka?


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3094 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):

That is € 23,72, amazing. how much do they charge for vaggage, carry-on, reserved seat, vodka?

0, 0, not offered, i don't know.

Of course this is crazy and they are probably loosing lots of money.


User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1247 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 16):
Anyone can fill an A320 at those fares, but profitably? And in the mid-term, Polish domestic flying will decrease as road and rail infrastructure is improved. Many distances involved are not too long, but the inadequate ground infrastructure makes them take long... for now.

Mid-Term means in Poland at least 20 years. They wanted to have now all highways north to south and east to west ready, but they are very far from being ready. Even the ones which they finalized and never used are already again damaged from the cold winter. With the railway there, the trains getting better, but the railway tracks are in very bad condition, many trains de-rail and crashing because of the old infrastructure and lack of repairs. To say that something will improve is very optimistic at least same optimistic that 22 Euro fares will make an airline profitable.



Fly easyJet
User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24911 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2748 times:

The Liverpool and Bristol to Bydgoszcz flights leave at a crazy time, 0240!! NCL is a bit better at around 9am, and EDI in the middle of the day.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

Another new airline for Gatwick! Excellent!

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