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BA Interested In Boeing Building The 777X  
User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 32004 times:

British Airways joins the gang of airlines interested in the 777X. So far, EK, Eva, and Cathay are also interested. All wanting the plane before 2020 to replace/refresh the 777 fleet. Boeing has been talking with all the 777 airlines in addressing a new 777 with launch in Q4 2012/Q1 2013. Emirates and British Airways are among the two largest 777 operators.

Quote:
Boeing will brief its board by year-end or early 2013 on potential plans to offer an upgrade to the current version, the company’s commercial airplanes chief, Jim Albaugh, said last month. He said the Chicago-based planemaker expected the new plane to be in service “towards the end of the decade.”
Emirates, the largest customer for the 777, and British Airways, the fifth-biggest, are pushing for a follow-on model to the 777-300 by decade’s end so they can move quickly to replace some of their older planes. Airbus SAS (EAD) is promoting the roomiest version of its A350 as a challenger to the twin-engine 777.
Quote:
British Airways, a unit of International Consolidated Airlines Group SA, intends to replace 52 Boeing 747 jumbo jets. It is currently evaluating the purchase of a 777 successor, the 787-10 Dreamliner, or possibly A350-1000s, the biggest variant of the Airbus plane.

This will probably end the "Will BA buy 747-8i's/777W's to replace the 747-400's?" question.

Very interesting article.

Emirates Joins British Airways Prodding Boeing on New 777


The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12360 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 32001 times:

Sweet!

Quoting redrooster3 (Thread starter):
This will probably end the "Will BA buy 747-8i's/777W's to replace the 747-400's?" question.

And start the "Most Of Us Will Be Flying 777s For The Rest Of Our Lives" thread! 

[Edited 2012-04-26 10:25:09]


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12411 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 32004 times:

Yes, a very interesting development, though not a surprise, because it's long been known that BA was interested in an aircraft around this size class; up to now, I would have put the A350 as a near "dead cert" for BA, but if Boeing does launch a 777X (and I think it's likely it will), then Airbus will have its work cut out; certainly, the A350-1000 will be hit hard.

User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 31690 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Yes, a very interesting development, though not a surprise, because it's long been known that BA was interested in an aircraft around this size class; up to now,

If I remember correctly, the 777-8X is designed as a 777-200 replacement? This would be a good 772ER replacement for BA, as some of the 777's are racking up the years. Where does time go? But who knows, maybe they'll keep the 772's around for as long as the 744's have been.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
I would have put the A350 as a near "dead cert" for BA, but if Boeing does launch a 777X (and I think it's likely it will), then Airbus will have its work cut out; certainly, the A350-1000 will be hit hard.

It has to be given that they'll launch it. If a couple more airlines join the gang, say SQ, AA, and UA joined, that would be given for Boeing to launch the program. If I recall, wouldn't they be developing a composite, thinner, longer wing on the 777X?



The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3197 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 31625 times:

Quoting redrooster3 (Thread starter):

"While some of the four-engine 747s can still operate until as late as 2018 or 2019, rising fuel prices heighten the need for a more fuel-efficient replacement, said Walsh"

Wow, BA will have no 4 holers by 2019.  
The world does not stand still.



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12360 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 31560 times:

The article says:

Quote:

“We want it done now so they have the plane in 2019,” Emirates President Tim Clark said in an interview at an industry conference in Barcelona. British Airways Chief Executive Officer Willie Walsh gave the same timeline yesterday as well.

...

“I think 2019 at the latest would be my view,” Walsh said in an interview in Barcelona.

Should be quite the challenge for both Boeing and GE, given that both are committed to the 737 MAX EIS in 2017.

I wonder if PW or RR can take advantage of GE's focus on the LEAP?

Albaugh says they will present to the board end of this year or early next year.

Of course he said a similar thing about the 737 NSA, so take that with a grain of salt.

In http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...costs-to-drop-50-by-summer-371139/ his boss McNerney says:

Quote:

From a development perspective, McNerney says the company's focus is on the 787-9, the re-engined 737 Max and the KC-46A tanker, based on the 767.

So the progression looks to be 787-9, KC-46A, 737-MAX, 787-10, 777X?

And perhaps as my linked article says, some attempt to address the 757 replacement market too?

Interesting times ahead!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 31558 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 4):
Wow, BA will have no 4 holers by 2019.

A380s



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12360 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 31476 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 4):
Wow, BA will have no 4 holers by 2019.

They will be getting a few A380s, no?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 31449 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
And perhaps as my linked article says, some attempt to address the 757 replacement market too?

Yep, confirmed by Boeing's CEO: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...haul-757-replacement-study-371163/



The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19419 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 31440 times:

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 3):
If I remember correctly, the 777-8X is designed as a 777-200 replacement?

It's a bit bigger. More like a 777-"250"ER replacement.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 31311 times:

Quoting redrooster3 (Thread starter):
This will probably end the "Will BA buy 747-8i's/777W's to replace the 747-400's?" question.

   That was my first thought.

BA may need the extra capacity due to restrictions at LHR. They, like Emirates, should be interested in packing in more seats per flight so I don't think it's a huge surprise that they like the 777X. That said, I still think that the number of airlines that will be interested in the 777X versus the A350 will be relatively small.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30654 posts, RR: 84
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 31197 times:
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BA is said to like their 777-300ERs (and they appear to like their 777-200ERs) so a mix of 777-9s, 787-10s, 787-9s and 787-8s would give BA significant flexibility and capability in the middle of the fleet, with the A380 anchoring the high-end and the A320 family covering the narrowbody side.

User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 30996 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 3):
If I remember correctly, the 777-8X is designed as a 777-200 replacement?

It's a bit bigger. More like a 777-"250"ER replacement.

  . For the sake of specificity, the 778X has been predicted as being 19 feet longer than the 772 and 14 feet shorter than the 773. The 779X comes in @ 8.5 feet longer than the 773.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 30731 times:

Naturally, BA/IAG would like a cutthroat competition between the 777X and A350, with prices slashed to the bone etc

2019 is a tight deadline, for the LAST of their 747s to be retired, seeing that so far they've only ordered a few A380s. Even if they they top this up a bit (another 10?) then replacing all their remaining 744s, and then their 772s will be a major order, worth fighting for.



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3197 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 30688 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):

Of course, having a Saga moment.  



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineblackwidow From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 30659 times:

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 3):
as some of the 777's are racking up the years.

G-ZZZC (l/n 15) delivered 11/11/1995....
G-ZZZA (l/n 6) delivered 20/05/1996.... (was this a development a/c? Took a longtime to deliver!)


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 30633 times:

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 3):

From what I understand Boeing is looking at buying out hangar space that is being leased by a company called ATS or something like that. If it goes through they plan on building the composite wings there on campus instead of shipping them and having to deal with trucking ect.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):

Sounds like a good mix. I think they will pull the trigger on ordering no more than 15 frames for each model minus the 787-8. I just hope the 787-9 and 787-10 dont get lost in the 737 MAX and 777x scrum.   


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2631 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 28251 times:

Well, so much for BA's experience with the first batch of 777s scaring them off ordering more future models. This shoots that laughable theory out the window. (I'm referring to a statement a member of these forums made)


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User currently offlineboeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 27504 times:

Quoting redrooster3 (Thread starter):
British Airways are among the two largest 777 operators.

Is not CX a larger operator?

CX - has (67) total orders for the 777 model.

Orders for January 1995 through March 2012
Customer Name Country Region Model Engine Order Date Total
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-200 RR 31-May-2000 1
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300 RR 01-Nov-1995 7
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300 RR 31-May-2002 3
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300 RR 29-Mar-2004 2
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300ER GE 14-Dec-2005 12
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300ER GE 01-Jun-2006 2
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300ER GE 07-Aug-2007 5
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300ER GE 08-Nov-2007 7
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300ER GE 21-Sep-2010 6
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300ER GE 09-Mar-2011 10
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777-300ER GE 10-Aug-2011 4
Cathay Pacific Airways CHINA East Asia 777F GE 10-Aug-2011 8
Total 67


From looking at their order history I would say they are far more into and a cheerleader of the 777 series than BA.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 26901 times:

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 18):
Is not CX a larger operator?

I was referring to right now, yes CX has many 777's on order

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 16):
From what I understand Boeing is looking at buying out hangar space that is being leased by a company called ATS or something like that. If it goes through they plan on building the composite wings there on campus instead of shipping them and having to deal with trucking ect.

Tim Clark did say, from an interview, that Boeing is good at making wings. So this will be very interesting to follow up on.

Quoting garpd (Reply 17):
Well, so much for BA's experience with the first batch of 777s scaring them off ordering more future models. This shoots that laughable theory out the window.

Yeah, they have to replace 747-400's first, then replace the older 777's.



The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7239 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 26730 times:

I'm just curious to see how much larger they're gonna make this 77X. Would it have increased seat capacity or increased range (longer than 77L) or both?


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineBE77 From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 26276 times:

Quoting redrooster3 (Thread starter):
This will probably end the "Will BA buy 747-8i's/777W's to replace the 747-400's?" question.
Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
And start the "Most Of Us Will Be Flying 777s For The Rest Of Our Lives" thread!

Also will be fodder for the "Flying Classic Airliners in 2062" thread, doesn't change the need for "Who Misses the Concorde", and most sadly, won't make the "A vs B" threads go away.

Happy to see the 777 keep going...amoung other things, I like seeing the 3 axle bogies!



Tower, Affirmitive, gear is down and welded
User currently offlineDaysleeper From UK - England, joined Dec 2009, 839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 26017 times:

All this article says is that they want Boeing to finalise the specifications and announce an estimated EIS so they can CONSIDER it. Which of course they will, they would be insane not to do so.

I just don’t see BA ordering it, as it isn’t going to be as efficient as the A35J for them, and before someone chimes in saying how many extra seats it will have, remember BA has a 9-abreast economy section on their 77Ws. So essentially when they compare the models, they will almost identical seat counts, almost identical engines, same generation wings… but the 777 will be heavier….


User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 800 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 25918 times:

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 12):
The 779X comes in @ 8.5 feet longer than the 773.

Goodness gracious, the 773 already looks like a tail strike ready to happen. Will the design address this with longer gear?



...are we there yet?
User currently offlineB777LRforeveR From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 25684 times:

What can we expect the SPECS on the Next Gen 777's to look like? Fuselage size -200/-300? Range? Is there a chance it may be made out of CFRP?

Thanks


25 Post contains links redrooster3 : From This flightglobal article, it says: But it's still quite early, and the studies aren't official. FlightGlobal: Boeing Targets Year End 777X Laun
26 Post contains links Roseflyer : According to FlightGlobal, the 777X is supposed to be 4 inches wider in cabin space, so in my opinion the assumption that airlines will stay with 9 a
27 gingersnap : It wasn't me who made that comment, but I will step in here and say there wasn't any need for that cheap shot. Totally unnecessary. As far as the top
28 odwyerpw : I would think Qantas will buy this one....
29 gdg9 : Why not call it the 777-400? I don't like or understand this business of jumping to -800 for the first version of a plane. Both Airbus and Boeing have
30 Post contains images gemuser : DO NOT GO THERE! Way, way too early to even speculate, lets at least wait until the specs are announced, please. Gemuser
31 gemuser : That takes it out to 76.5 m! By far the longest airliner in the sky. Will we be having threads on how few airports are B777X ready? Gemuser
32 redrooster3 : Basically, the number "8" means good luck in Asia cultures. Just a broad overview of that. But, Boeing/Airbus think that putting 100-600 as the model
33 Post contains images N62NA : As the author of said thread, I agree with your observation! I agree. I think this whole "8" thing was originally started as a gesture to the Chinese
34 Post contains images odwyerpw : I typed that one with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek!! You called me on it in 3.2.1. Good on you!
35 VV701 : 'ZA was the first 772 powered by the GE90 engine which was then an entirely new engine (as opposed to a development of an existing engine). It was th
36 Post contains images rotating14 : Can you explain why you don't think that BA will in fact order the 777X if it were available before or at 2019?? I want to understand your logic behi
37 Revelation : It's pretty clear to me that his argument is "it isn’t going to be as efficient as the A35J for them". And "evaluating" doesn't necessarily suggest
38 gemuser : There is that. BA may purchase the B777X, but they may not. Another factor is that really haven't jumped into the B77W with their customary enthusias
39 Roseflyer : BA doesn't seem to have much enthusiasm for anything right now. They don't have any narrowbodies on order and have comparatively small orders for the
40 tdscanuck : Boeing hasn't produced a "-800" since 1994 (the 737-800). Tom.
41 rj777 : So what does Boeing need to approach the board for launch? Why wait until the end of the year? Why couldn't they ask the board to launch sometime by t
42 Post contains images Stitch : A few score orders.
43 Roseflyer : Launch is actually about 1/3rd of the way through the development of a program. By the time of launch, the basic design configuration and trade studi
44 windshear : Great stuff! Now go buy the 748i already, BA I know you want to!!! Boaz.
45 Post contains images GCPET : I totally agree with you, I think BA should buy the 748i. However, I think I'm just dreaming and BA won't look at the new jumbo until RR's are slappe
46 autothrust : That does not look good for the A350 generally or specific the -1000. If a lot of airliens prefer the warmed over 777 it will be difficult for Airbus
47 scouseflyer : I'd agree, and I know it's only an article in a paper, but something doesn't add up - if they're really going to retire all 52 744s by 2019 and the 7
48 davs5032 : First of all, even IF your prediction of BA going 9-abreast in Y comes true, the seat counts will still NOT be identical. Isn't the A35J as designed
49 parapente : Of course in terms of 'ordering' there is no such thing as BA, any purchase will be made with the whole corporation in mind. .And of course it will th
50 Daysleeper : This is really starting to get tiresome, let me make this clear – I enjoy aviation as a hobby, it has absolutely no baring or effect on my real lif
51 Post contains images astuteman : In a word "no". History has already shown us the answer to that question, as we have already had a large number of 777X threads on A-net that have cl
52 JerseyFlyer : Not necessarily as the 779X will be bigger than the A3510 (and 77W). As fuel prices rise airlines will increasingly need to "right-size" their aircra
53 Revelation : Yet there is no real evidence of that being the case. By most of the analyses that I've seen, the 777X will have a hard time equaling the A350J in pe
54 Post contains images EPA001 : Which is exactly what it is. Quite interested. And if everything adds up, including sales price, many airlines might very well purchase the B777-9X,
55 StickShaker : The A350 fuselage dimensions are optimised for the A359, to make it as wide as the 777 would be suboptimal for the 359 and especially the 358. The cu
56 JAAlbert : Will Boeing construct the 777x cabin using carbon fiber? If not, why not? I thought I had read that the benefits of using carbon increase as the size
57 Cerecl : That would essentially be an all new plane which is not what Boeing appears to be willing to do.
58 Stitch : Unlikely. That will come with Y3 - the 777/747 replacement.
59 Roseflyer : I totally agree that it is too early to seriously debate the differences in efficiency, which is why I am confused you make statements like this?
60 Post contains links and images garpd : It'll never happen. But what a handsome beast it would be:
61 Daysleeper : Because I believe that’s going to be the case. Unless Boeing have some sort of revolutionary new wing, or can re-write the laws of physics then I d
62 Post contains links LAXDESI : FWIW, I expect B777-9X(10-abreast Y) to have higher operating profits than A350-1000(9-abreast Y) for long and dense routes. I also expect the A350-10
63 Post contains links and images garpd : What a poosible 777-8 could look like beside a 777-200ER. Pictured here is an example with a new wing, new tail plane and new engine/pylon.[Edited 201
64 DocLightning : One issue: you have an "RR" symbol on the engine. I do not believe there will be an RR option on the 777-8/9. Otherwise, very purty! It's going to ge
65 Post contains images garpd : I know, I know, humour me
66 ER757 : Yeah, for about as long as it takes for a new "When will XX* buy out/merge with AS" thread *Insert your selected airline here.
67 redrooster3 : You're basically creating a whole new plane after that. Wings are being proposed right now.
68 PHX787 : Could you do me a favor and compare that to a BA 787, to see a size difference?
69 Post contains images gemuser : Indeed Sir, indeed! Gemuser
70 Stitch : I believe Boeing has extended RFPs to GE, RR and P&W.
71 gigneil : Yeah lets clear that up. United is firmly the second largest 777 operator with 74. British Airways is the 5th largest with about 20 less than that. N
72 Post contains links and images redrooster3 : I should of said top 5. Alaska happens to be my favorite airline. According to this article they are proposing a RB3025 engine concept for the 777X.
73 odwyerpw : I like the mockups. Thank you for sharing. Could you humor us further by showing us a possible 777-9 besides a 777-300ER. Maybe station them in order
74 Post contains images Zkpilot : but its "Old Technology" according to Geoff Dixon and other QF management/board....
75 EPA001 : That could very well be the case. Also the B77W had a very slow start until real performance data (in the flight test program and out of the first op
76 Post contains links and images garpd : See below Done Please note: All sizes are extremeley approximate. I cannot stress this enough, so no rivet counting, please.
77 Post contains images EPA001 : I was just about to start counting. Thanks for the picture.
78 Post contains images frigatebird : Nice, thanks Still, it does show the 787-9 will be very close to the 772 in size, and the 787-10 will be very close to the 778. Which makes me wonder
79 Stitch : From the data I have seen, the 777-200ER and 787-9 look to have identical cabin lengths at 48.4m. Assuming the stretches Boeing is talking about, the
80 Post contains images PHX787 : amazing!!!! That is incredible.
81 ferpe : I have done a first order analysis of the 777-8X and -9X over at Tech-Ops (A vs B wings). B have leaked some 8000nm range for both, that is probably
82 odwyerpw : Interesting that the 787, 747 and 777 families are going to share very similar engine technolgies. Thanks for posting the additional mockups.
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