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Major European Airline Looks At CRJ1000  
User currently offlineCRJ900X From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 197 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13187 times:

Although the title of the article is about the potential rebound with Bombardier DASH 8-Q400 sales, but I thought the most interesting piece was around the "major European airline" that is looking at the CRJ1000.

Link: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_04_18_2012_p0-448980.xml

The only major European airline that I could think would order the aircraft at this stage is SAS. They already operate 12 x CRJ900's and I believe they held options for an additional 17 x CRJ900/1000's. But have those options lapsed?

Any other European airlines that could be negotiating for the CRJ1000's?

The article also indicates that a number of American carriers are looking at the CRJ. Skywest and American Eagle (maybe after restructuring) would be the ones that come to mind. Also, a senior executive at Bombardier (Chet Fuller) had a You Tube video posted last year where he was speaking to a reporter of Flight International and he stated that by April he expected an American carrier to place a 30-strong order for the CRJ's. Anyone hear anything recently about that potential order?

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5463 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13134 times:

BBD is really going to have to get into the price war/creative financing game. If EMB can get E-175 trip costs close to Q400 levels, for Flybe, based on financing, they'll have an easier time working against the CRJ's.


What the...?
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13030 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
Any other European airlines that could be negotiating for the CRJ1000's?

Hmm, perhaps Austrian Airlines to replace F70/F100 fleet? Or Brussels Airlines to replace Avro RJ fleet? Or SWISS to replace Avro RJ fleet?



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineaircanadaa330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12893 times:
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Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 2):
SWISS to replace Avro RJ fleet?

Arent they getting the C-Series to replace the RJ fleet?

What about one of Lufthansas regional subsidaries? IE; Eurofly?



Cheers;
User currently offlineBoeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12862 times:

Quoting aircanadaa330 (Reply 3):
What about one of Lufthansas regional subsidaries?

I highly doubt LH will be ordering any aircraft anytime soon, I believe a CEO or someone high in the ladder said they aren't going to be taking delivery of any new planes until 2014 or till the time is right. But if the regional airline is contracted and not owned by LH, then possibly.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineaircanadaa330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12859 times:
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Quoting Boeing773ER (Reply 4):
I highly doubt LH will be ordering any aircraft anytime soon, I believe a CEO or someone high in the ladder said they aren't going to be taking delivery of any new planes until 2014 or till the time is right. But if the regional airline is contracted and not owned by LH, then possibly

ah yes I forgot about that...well in that case I want to change my vote to SAS.



Cheers;
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 3386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12487 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
The only major European airline that I could think would order the aircraft at this stage is SAS

I would not put my money on SAS here. AFAIK, even though their happy with their 12 CRJ-900, their not in the market for expanding their regional fleet


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12175 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 1):
BBD is really going to have to get into the price war/creative financing game. If EMB can get E-175 trip costs close to Q400 levels, for Flybe, based on financing, they'll have an easier time working against the CRJ's.

The Crj100 must have very low seat costs. It's lighter and burns less fuel than the E190. I flew on one recently and it's a very nice comfortable aircraft.
The only disadvantages i saw were the very long cabin and only a single boarding door, overhead bins were also small.
I hope the aircraft gets more sales.


User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12092 times:

I've never flown in a CRJ but have on an ATR and it was pretty claustrophobic and an experience I will not repeat.

I can't even imagine what it would feel like being in the last row on a CRJ-1000.

What does it compare to in terms of other narrow bodies?



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User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 884 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11997 times:

Brit Air (AF Group)?

User currently offlineCV990A From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11909 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 8):
I can't even imagine what it would feel like being in the last row on a CRJ-1000.

I've flown in the second to last row of a CRJ900, and it was a pretty cramped experience- they have made some improvements vs. the CRJ100/200 in terms better window placement and stand-up headroom, but compared to a E-190 or Boeing/ Airbus product, it was nowhere nearly as comfortable.



Kittens Give Morbo Gas
User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 777 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11831 times:

Wonder could it be EI? They are known to be looking at aircraft smaller than their current A320s. The couple of A319s they recently got are only a stopgap and apparently they want more smaller aircraft to increase frequencies on thinner European routes


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User currently offlineHarmonium From Denmark, joined Feb 2012, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11759 times:

Am I completely off by throwing in KL here?

User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11748 times:

IB through Air Nostrum already operates the CRJ1000. We might see BA throwing itself in...

User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11687 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
Any other European airlines that could be negotiating for the CRJ1000's?

The two main criteria IMO to make a good CRK candidate: already a CRJ operator and not bound by scope clauses. Now who meets those criteria in Europe...?   

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 2):
Hmm, perhaps Austrian Airlines to replace F70/F100 fleet? Or Brussels Airlines to replace Avro RJ fleet?

Could be... particularly OS, which has operated CRJ's before through Tyrolean

Quoting Boeing773ER (Reply 4):

I highly doubt LH will be ordering any aircraft anytime soon, I believe a CEO or someone high in the ladder said they aren't going to be taking delivery of any new planes until 2014 or till the time is right.

I believe the exact words were no fleet growth until 2014, which still means they can take new frames to retire old ones. But it was poorly worded in various media. To me LH would be an obvious candidate if they hadn't already gone for the E19x (and somehow circumvented the 90-seat scope clause?).

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 9):
Brit Air (AF Group)?

I interpret this news to be about an all-new CRK operator, not a follow-on order.

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
expected an American carrier to place a 30-strong order for the CRJ's. Anyone hear anything recently about that potential order?

Scope clauses are the major blocking point that keeps the CRK out of the US market. If AA can loosen its scope coming out of bankruptcy, they're a candidate.


User currently offlineaircanadaa330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11579 times:
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Quoting Talaier (Reply 13):
We might see BA throwing itself in

I would think they would stay with the E-Jets as they just got brand new ones.

Quoting Harmonium (Reply 12):
Am I completely off by throwing in KL here?

Dont they operate the Ejets?

I know its possible, but it doesnt make sense for these airlines to order CRJ when they operate new EJets...

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 2):
Brussels Airlines to replace Avro RJ fleet

that would be nice, as their fleet desperatly needs an over haul...



Cheers;
User currently offlineHarmonium From Denmark, joined Feb 2012, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10565 times:

Quoting aircanadaa330 (Reply 15):
Dont they operate the Ejets?

I know its possible, but it doesnt make sense for these airlines to order CRJ when they operate new EJets...

Yes, KL operates both Embraer and Fokker jets, but the latter is to be phased out I've heard.


User currently offlineB6A322 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10194 times:

I think one other we may have to consider is:

AB - Q400 replacement? Not one of the first that comes to mind but I think the time has come to consider them "Major"


My other guess would actually be LH. They have a fairly significant fleet of Q400s, Avros, ATR's, and already operate and especially if they're trying to cut costs this quickly, dumping some those in favor of the CRJ-1000 would be practical. They already operate the -7 and -9.



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User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9676 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 8):
I can't even imagine what it would feel like being in the last row on a CRJ-1000.
Quoting CV990A (Reply 10):
I've flown in the second to last row of a CRJ900, and it was a pretty cramped experience

I've done one "better" by flying MUC-BCN on the very last row of a LH Cityline CRJ-900. Pretty bad: no recline, no window, engine noise, etc. This was a connecting flight coming back home from JNB, and we (family of four) were put on the four seats of the very last row. I didn't quite appreciate it...



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User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9390 times:

Quoting Harmonium (Reply 16):
Yes, KL operates both Embraer and Fokker jets, but the latter is to be phased out I've heard.

Only the F100's, the F70's are not going anywhere soon and will remain in the fleet for at least a few more years.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4017 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8827 times:
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Quoting clydenairways (Reply 7):
The Crj100 must have very low seat costs. It's lighter and burns less fuel than the E190. I flew on one recently and it's a very nice comfortable aircraft.
The only disadvantages i saw were the very long cabin and only a single boarding door, overhead bins were also small.
I hope the aircraft gets more sales.

I don't think we'll see the likes of LH-City Line, KL/AF-Regional, BA pick up the CRK. Why? They already have E90/95s.
I think it's safe to say the E90/95 is a much more passenger and cabin crew friendly a/c to fly, work on. Is the CRKs range similar to E90/95?

I know AF-Regional already has the CRK in their fleet. How happy are they with them?
Is it possible we'll see IBex pick up more since they have a large CR9 fleet along with the CRK fleet?

Is SK happy with the CR9s to order the CRK? If anything, I feel they would order the E95 to replace the much heavier and less fuel efficient 736s.

I don't think we'll see LX, OS or SN order the CRK since they are part of LH. I think they would go with the E75, E90/95s over the CRK. I had been wondering if LX was going to wait a few more years to replace those AR1s?

Quoting r2rho (Reply 14):
Scope clauses are the major blocking point that keeps the CRK out of the US market. If AA can loosen its scope coming out of bankruptcy, they're a candidate.

I think we'll see AA order the E90/E95 and it will be flown mainline. I don't think we'll see anything happen until something is decided if they'll stay as a stand alone carrier or if they will merge.

DL already has a pay scale set up for E90/95 cockpit crews and they could fly these birds on longer, thin midcon routes.

There's no telling what UAex will do these days since the merger. They definitely need a a/c in the 80-115 seat range since the remainder of COs 735s will be retired.

I believe AC is happy with the E75/E90 fleet. Can the CRK fly routes like YYZ-SEA/PDX/PHX/SAN which the E90 does for AC?

If anything I could see West Jet order some CRKs since they currently don't have an a/c in the 100 seat capacity, unless you include the heavy 736 which I believe they have configured with 120+ seats currently in all Y.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8498 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 2):
Hmm, perhaps Austrian Airlines to replace F70/F100 fleet? Or Brussels Airlines to replace Avro RJ fleet? Or SWISS to replace Avro RJ fleet?

Too big for OS and SN. LX are replacing 20-or-so Avros with 30 C-Series, so not a chance here either.

Quoting aircanadaa330 (Reply 3):
What about one of Lufthansas regional subsidaries? IE; Eurofly?

GJ isn't a Lufthansa affiliate at all, and I wouldn't call them major either.

Quoting btblue (Reply 8):
I've never flown in a CRJ but have on an ATR and it was pretty claustrophobic and an experience I will not repeat.

I can't even imagine what it would feel like being in the last row on a CRJ-1000.

Flown in an Adria Airways CRJ200 last year, FRA-VIE. Not pleasant in the second last row, especially when the whole plane is filled with business travellers who enjoy spreading their newspapers wider than their arms can reach.
If they did something about the engine noise on the CRJ1000 then that's alright, but fuselage width is still the same and therefore I am not looking forward to my next CRJ flight.

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 17):
AB - Q400 replacement? Not one of the first that comes to mind but I think the time has come to consider them "Major"

My other guess would actually be LH. They have a fairly significant fleet of Q400s, Avros, ATR's, and already operate and especially if they're trying to cut costs this quickly, dumping some those in favor of the CRJ-1000 would be practical. They already operate the -7 and -9.

AB could be in the game, but I think they are actually quite happy with their short-hop Q400s.
LH is highly unlikely, for reasons stated by others above, including the big news recently that they will not grow their fleet in the short term - for replacement they already have brand new E190s.
As a matter of fact I'm a little puzzled by your statement. To my knowledge LH does not own any Q400s or ATRs (only "Regional Members" do - but as far as I know they have full authority over their fleet planning).


My bet is on SAS. Seems logical   



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinetotesen From Mexico, joined Dec 2008, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8130 times:

Quoting Talaier (Reply 13):
IB through Air Nostrum already operates the CRJ1000. We might see BA throwing itself in...

BA already has the embraer E170 and the E190



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User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7886 times:

Quoting EIRules (Reply 11):
Wonder could it be EI?

Might be a fair guess.

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 17):
AB - Q400 replacement? Not one of the first that comes to mind but I think the time has come to consider them "Major"


I cannot see AB replacing their Q400 fleet, as these a/c are still new (delivered only in 2008/09). But I can see them adding more airplanes in the below-144-seat range (that's the capacity of their 737-700s, second smallest in fleet other than their 76-seat Q400s). AB already uses some of Niki's E-190s (112 seats) on their own routes, so if there indeed will be an order, my guess it will be the E-Jet, not the CRJ1000.



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User currently offlineTalaier From Spain, joined May 2008, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6176 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 20):
Is it possible we'll see IBex pick up more since they have a large CR9 fleet along with the CRK fleet?

I don't see IBex operating anything aside from 319/320s. The only place for a CRK within IB is in the regional fleet of Air Nostrum and AFAIK they still have some CRJ's to be delivered.


25 jporterfi : What about AF or BA? Could they use them for short flights to Ireland or other nearby destinations (maybe within the UK or France)?
26 YVRLTN : How about: TAP AIr Portugal (possibly Portugalia F100 replacement) Olympic Norwegian Luxair Tarom JAT Transavia CSA Ukraine Intl OLT Express
27 baje427 : Maybe OA might be a good guess they have Q400's in the fleet I think maybe SN Avro replacements can the CRJ operate into LCY?
28 Larshjort : The Austrian Fokkers are supposed to stay for at least another 5 ears and the Swiss ARJ fleet will be replaced by CSeries. Brussels Airlines might be
29 SASMD82 : I have stated for several years that I don't understand why the CRJ 1000 has gained so few orders. It has more than enough range (a regional carrier d
30 JoeCanuck : From an article I read on the Flybe deal, (as well as another airline which said as much), Emb is employing very aggressive financing at the moment..
31 Post contains links and images FlySSC : AF operates already a fleet of 13 CRJ-1000 so that would not be very "new" ... View Large View MediumPhoto © AirC That's not what I would call a "Ma
32 aircanadaa330 : oops....I ment Eurowings
33 Post contains images SASMD82 : You must be joking.... Don't think so too. Low cost airlines normally operate only one or two aircraft types. Norwegian will do so with the 738 and A
34 connies4ever : Yes, I have always thought that worked against the CRJ1000 in terms of LCCs and short turn times. It's quite a lengthy fuselage. I've been on the 705
35 YVRLTN : I know, but with some typical BBD marketing spin... remember the "new European" Q400 order? Any order for BBD at the moment is "major" and all of tho
36 irshava : Not a chance in hell....
37 columba : My guess still would be SK, they will retire their MD fleet soon and the 737/A32x might be too big for some of their routes. They have a huge CRJ flee
38 SSTeve : I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that before JetBlue got E-jets to go with their A320s, that people were insisting they were wedded to the one
39 connies4ever : Also seems to be working for Jet Blue (B6 ??) so perhaps that is a model that would work. Easyjet certainly at this point would rank as a major Europ
40 Post contains images BasilFawlty : SK has 737NG's and A320's on order to replace the last fleet of MD's, so there's no need to order the CRJ1000 unless they want to expand their networ
41 clydenairways : I thought the Niki E190's were for sale
42 LOWS : Why not? though the CRJ1000 would be quite a downgrade in comfort from a F100.
43 SASMD82 : Actually, if NG aircraft will have one potential customer, I believe it will be OS.....they seem to be very happy with these planes.
44 Cabincrewifly : Aer Lingus were talking about adding regional jets, but they might wait another few years. They are still developing the Aer Lingus Regional brand in
45 Mortyman : Norwegian is actually pretty big with a fleet of 65 aircraft and 115 destinations. They have 283 aircraft on order. By 2020 they will have around 200
46 Post contains images laca773 : That's correct, Talaier, and thanks for the clarification. I appreciate that . Please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe I just read somewhere SK is
47 columba : SK is planning to phase out their MDs soon.
48 CRJ900 : I think Danish(?) leasing company Nordic Aviation is the "airline" the article mentions. When Garuda ordered six CRJ1000 (+18 options) they also wante
49 columba : I doubt it, first LH won´t place an order for new aircraft anytime soon. Secondly if they order a 100 Seater it would be the CS100.
50 JoeCanuck : That depends on where they plan to fly. The CRJ1000 fuel burn would probably beat the CS100 on shorter routes that didn't worry about freight. Cheape
51 columba : LH was not so keen on the CRJ 900 when they ordered it back then, they said it is already overstretched so I doubt that they will order an even longe
52 Post contains images lightsaber : What mission length? Then again, if the mission is too short, the ATR wins that competition... ouch... I consider AB an ideal C-series candidate. But
53 Post contains images CRJ900 : But then they must have become keen on it, as they topped up the order twice and now fly 35 examples of this lovely aircraft I have flown the CityLin
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