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Experiemental Aircraft Emergency Landing On Road.  
User currently offlinePs76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

Hi!

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum or if it has been posted aready. A few days ago I found this video on Youtube of an experiemental aircraft with an engine failure landing on a road in Florida. It's an amazing video although I find it quite disturbing to watch. To me it looks like a combination of skill/training/a cool head/ and luck which kept these guys alive.

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MlRRM9tpA

What do you think?

Many thanks for looking,

Pierre

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

There was a thread on this several weeks ago. There was some debate whether it was real or staged. I voted for staged - you know, gee they just coincidentally had the cameras going when that engine fail emergency happened. And there just happened to be no cars on the road at that moment.

However, several other posters (and some people within my work group) were familiar with the video and incident and stated that it was in fact a real unplanned emergency.

As you allude to, this could have turned out very differently if the conditions were different.


User currently offlinePs76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

Hi!

I don't know if it's real or staged but one thing I wondered was why didn't they just make a water landing. There looked like there was plenty of calm water which was well within reach. Wouldn't that be less risky and easier to do?

Any opinions welcome.

Many thanks,

Pierre


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):


I don't know if it's real or staged but one thing I wondered was why didn't they just make a water landing. There looked like there was plenty of calm water which was well within reach. Wouldn't that be less risky and easier to do?

That was also discussed in the recent thread. Perhaps they would have it if were their only option, but someone stated that it would be much more risky. More of a chance of catching an engine or wingtip in the water and flipping the plane. You'll note they did look at that nearby field.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

I apologize because I can't view this video at work but I am assumming this is the one that happened 3 years or so ago with an experimental plane on its way to Sun N Fun when the engine konked out somewhere near Winter Haven and the pilot dropped a few beeped out F bombs but landed on a very empty divided highway and pulled into a parking lot.

If this is the video, the pilot was actually a student that was with his instructor.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 4):
I apologize because I can't view this video at work but I am assumming this is the one that happened 3 years or so ago with an experimental plane on its way to Sun N Fun when the engine konked out somewhere near Winter Haven and the pilot dropped a few beeped out F bombs but landed on a very empty divided highway and pulled into a parking lot.

If this is the video, the pilot was actually a student that was with his instructor.

That would be the one. Like I said, there was a lengthy tread on this just a few weeks ago.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
I don't know if it's real or staged but one thing I wondered was why didn't they just make a water landing. There looked like there was plenty of calm water which was well within reach. Wouldn't that be less risky and easier to do?

Land planes make horrible watercraft...landing gear tends to get ripped of and then (forcibly) flips the plane over    If you are still conscious after the water has caved in the windshield ad 60-70 MPH (which often happens in small planes in ditching attempts), then you have to deal with the water itself. If the water is cold, you probably have a few minutes before hypothermia sets in, so you'd better hope someone in a nearby vessel saw you. Even if it is warm water (like the coast of Florida), you'd better be a good swimmer or have a flotation device handy. You can only tread water for so long before exhaustion will set in, and you'd better be a darn good swimmer to make a swim for shore. Normally, flotation devices aren't carried on board GA aircraft, unless you are intentionally flying over water. There are courses which teach water ditching techniques (taught by ferry pilots usually), but the consensus is don't ditch in water unless it is your last hope   



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2412 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
That would be the one. Like I said, there was a lengthy tread on this just a few weeks ago.

As there was 3 years ago when this happened


User currently offlinePs76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2267 times:

Hi!

Thanks. I'll have a look for the other threads. Apologies for the repeat post but thanks for the info.

Pierre


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5738 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
There looked like there was plenty of calm water

I couldn't tell the condition of the water from the video.... plus, as was mentioned, water landings are pretty much a last resort.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
There looked like there was plenty of calm water which was well within reach. Wouldn't that be less risky and easier to do?

Water landing is the last resort for small fixed gear aircraft.

The plane WILL flip over violently when the gear grabs the water. It is the same effect as running into a three foot high concrete wall, or a three foot deep ditch while landing.

One of the first things my flight instructor told me - take it down in trees rather than on water - better survival odds.


User currently offlinePs76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
One of the first things my flight instructor told me - take it down in trees rather than on water - better survival odds.

Wow! I never thought it would be like that. I know the shape of the airplane is different but makes me wonder how lucky or skilled was that US Airways flight which landed safely in the Hudson river. I know I've seen a video of a hijacked airliner running out of fuel and ditching near a beach and that outcome was tragic as the plane completely flipped.

Many thanks,

Pierre


User currently offlinelitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1819 times:
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The Ethiopian 767 that cartwheeled caught a wing tip (or engine) on a submerged shoal, which ripped the wing off.

Unbalanced lift then flipped the aircraft. Same thing, essentially, as the various MD10/11 crashes where the aircraft flipped onto its back ... asymmetrical lift due to lack of one wing.

The USair airbus in the Hudson was controlled all the way down, and they got the angle perfect when planing into the water ... there's pretty much only one way to put an aircraft into water successfully, and they pulled it off.

Had they dipped a wingtip, or struck a submerged object, or any of a host of other things ... very different outcome.


User currently offlinePs76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1804 times:

Quoting litz (Reply 12):
The Ethiopian 767 that cartwheeled caught a wing tip (or engine) on a submerged shoal, which ripped the wing off.

Unbalanced lift then flipped the aircraft. Same thing, essentially, as the various MD10/11 crashes where the aircraft flipped onto its back ... asymmetrical lift due to lack of one wing.

The USair airbus in the Hudson was controlled all the way down, and they got the angle perfect when planing into the water ... there's pretty much only one way to put an aircraft into water successfully, and they pulled it off.

Had they dipped a wingtip, or struck a submerged object, or any of a host of other things ... very different outcome.

Hi!

Thanks for the info sir. I learned quite a few new things reading this. Makes me think those US Airways passengers really owe a lot to their pilot and luck. I heard he also flew gliders so was used to landing without power. I wonder if that helped at all.

Pierre


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 11):
Wow! I never thought it would be like that.

Light aircraft like the one in the video weigh only a thousand pounds or two. Few are over 2,000 lbs. At those weights, the wheels stricking something solid will cause the aircraft to flip because the impact far below the COG and center of motion.

Heck, you can put a C-172 on its nose by braking too hard on landing. Almost any taildragger will flip onto its nose under heavy braking.

At 50-60 mph sticking the wheels in the water is like hitting something solid.

One of the things light aircraft pilots learn is that even something up to 10,000 lbs is at danger of flipping. The internet has plenty of videos and photos of Cessna Caraven or other float equipped aircraft flipping over when they try to land on the floats and accidentally put the wheels in the floats down.

If you absolutely have to go down in water - stall the aircraft a couple feet above the water and drop it in. Hopefully it will not flip.

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 11):
makes me wonder how lucky or skilled was that US Airways flight which landed safely in the Hudson river.

Any airline transport pilot should have been able to make the water landing successfully. Note - they kept the gear UP for the landing as they are trained for ditching.

Water landings always call for the gear to be up.

Sully's greatest skill that day was recognizing within a few seconds that ditching in the Hudson was the only option available to put the aircraft down not in a built-up area. While some pilots in the simulator have made it back to LGA - they knew what was going to occur and turned immediately upon the bird strike. Even then it was a 50% success rate. If they took even enough time to say "What was that?" - they could not make it back.

Right decision, right time under tremendous pressure.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
Land planes make horrible watercraft...landing gear tends to get ripped of and then (forcibly) flips the plane over
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 9):
I couldn't tell the condition of the water from the video.... plus, as was mentioned, water landings are pretty much a last resort.

Remember this is Florida too - lakes are FULL of alligators, if you happen to survive the water landing, do you want to deal with some hungry gators?


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