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L-1011 Entered Service 40 Years Ago  
User currently offlineavnut43 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8913 times:

It was 40 years ago, April 1972, that the L-1011 entered commercial service. Eastern was the first to use it commercially.

Flight Global did a “look back”.
http://www.flightglobal.com/Features...ckheed-tristar/an-iconic-airliner/

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5467 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8837 times:

One of the best looking airliners! It's a shame it only had a 30 year run. I always liked the looks and of course those RR engines rumbling and shaking the glass as they spooled up. I got to tour some of them but sadly never had the chance to fly on one.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4971 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8791 times:

Oh how I wish Lockheed would jump back into building commercial jets. The L-1011 is a sexy looking machine, and so hard to see anymore. I loved TWAs striking paint on those birds.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2949 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8767 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 2):
Oh how I wish Lockheed would jump back into building commercial jets. The L-1011 is a sexy looking machine, and so hard to see anymore. I loved TWAs striking paint on those birds.

Nothing beat PSA's paint on the L-1011s. I actually flew on one during the very short time they were in service SFO-LAX.

The EA accident in the Everglades is, I believe, the basis for instructions in Boeing's manuals (and would assume everyone else's) about fly the plane first during any emergency. Never forget that is the first priority is keeping the flight path under control.

From what I understand the L-1011 was an incredibly well designed and well built airplane. I personally far prefer it over the DC-10.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5467 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8721 times:

If only the L1011 rolled out even a year earlier! It was a victim of the RR financial debacle and the crappy economy of the time. And the Arab Oil Embargo really tightened the screws. I too wish Lockheed would get back in the commercial airliner business. I really liked the white Eastern and DL L1011's. Did LY ever look at or consider the L1011 along with the 747?


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineGCPET From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8597 times:

The start of the RB211! Definitely my favourite jet engine by far, the sound's incredible.

GCPET



If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4923 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8490 times:

"The Most Advanced Airliner In The Sky" and it really was.
The thing I liked most about it was that "shimmy time is takeoff time". I only saw this in the later years of operation, but when you were taking off all the ceiling and wall panels would vibrate and shake just before liftoff.

A great airliner, I will miss her.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6072 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8473 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 2):
Oh how I wish Lockheed would jump back into building commercial jets.
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 4):
I too wish Lockheed would get back in the commercial airliner business.

At least NASA keeps including them in their commercial airliner studies...

http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2012/02/06/226691-outside-the-box-sort-of.jpg
.

http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2012/02/06/226694-another-take-on-supersonic.jpg
.

http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2012/02/06/226696-nasa-lockheed-martin.jpg
.

http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2012/02/06/226700-green-supersonic-machine.jpg



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineL1011TGU From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8201 times:

I'll never forget that flight on a DL L1011 from ATL to SFO. It was the summer of 1997 and I was 8 years old. We were flying out with my mother to meet my father who had flown out a few days before on business for a family vacation. I stood at the gate at Hartsfield and looked out at the plane with the black nose and thought that the plane looked like it was wearing glasses. I remember that the flight was very turbulent, the plane's interior was shabby, but I instantly fell in love with the plane and aviation. We also got to fly DL's other three engine, the 727, on the way back through SLC and PHX. What a memorable trip.

User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4923 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7926 times:

Way back in 1972 I flew on an EA L1011 for the first time. Prior to that I had only seen photos of the plane.
I was amazed at how beautiful it looked. Once we got onboard I was immediately impressed by the interior with the true "never more than one seat from an aisle" seating and the dimming window shades.
One thing I noticed was that it seemed the interior lighting was not as bright as on other airliners, but it seemed to be more evenly distributed throughout the plane.
And you could tell the crew was proud of her too!



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7899 times:

One of my earliest childhood memories is boarding a DL L1011 (my first-ever widebody) in Atlanta on a family trip to Disney World. As you can imagine I was pretty het up to begin with, just with the whole Disney thing, and then getting on this (to my young eyes) incredibly enormous plane that was like nothing I'd ever seen before in my entire life was just amazing. At the check-in counter in JAN the nice lady had given me a little white plastic model of an L1011 because I was excited about flying on it... man, that was an awesome trip.


What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6056 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7837 times:
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I flew on TW L1011s several times including once in 1991 flying ORD-STL. Difficult to imagine a wide body on a flight that short these days.

The L1011 is my favorite wide body and I just love how it looks.

A few months ago I found this cardboard DL L1011 at a antique shop, in St. Louis, for $6. I couldn't pass it up.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/L1011001.jpg



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7759 times:
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I remember flying a Hawaiian L-1011 to Honolulu. I was bewildered and made a big deal about the airplane "having an engine in the tail" and my dad explained why. I'm pretty sure I was dissapointed it didn't have four instead..

Quoting type-rated (Reply 6):
"The Most Advanced Airliner In The Sky" and it really was.

"it really was..."

...

"It's been 40 years, and I can still smell the fresh paint.. The china had never been used. The seats had never been sat in.. they called the Tristar the plane of dreams and it was.. it really was."



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5467 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7090 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 11):
I flew on TW L1011s several times including once in 1991 flying ORD-STL. Difficult to imagine a wide body on a flight that short these days.

Both DL and EA had a pick of the litter with wide body flights from ATL to MIA and even some to FLL! Back in the 70's
MIA was the big cahoona in South FLA. FLL wasn't yet what it is today!. I believe there may have even been wide body flights from IAD to BOS on either DL or EA!

Quoting planemaker (Reply 7):
At least NASA keeps including them in their commercial airliner studies...

I take it designs 2 and four are HSCT's. The one with the single fan tail mounted engine looks like a sea creature and what's with attatched tail and wing design?



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinepnd100 From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6897 times:

A beautiful airliner & one of my favourites. My family flew on BA / AC L-1011s back in the late seventies & early eighties.

User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 11):
A few months ago I found this cardboard DL L1011 at a antique shop, in St. Louis, for $6. I couldn't pass it up.

I dream of finds like this - that is amazing.

Reading about Eastern flight 401, a recurring theme is how much the flight crew, cabin crew and passengers loved the L1011, which just made the whole disaster even sadder somehow.

(But fairly soon before it was retired, a DL FA friend of mine said that among her colleagues L1011 stood for "Late 10-out-of-11 times" because of the constant mechanical issues the planes faced.)



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6072 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6759 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 13):
The one with the single fan tail mounted engine looks like a sea creature and what's with attatched tail and wing design?

The "single fan tail mount" is actually a twin... there are two ultra-large bypass engines on two vertical tails but the photo perspective doesn't show the other vertical tail and engine. And a joined wing design has two benefits: reduced drag and structural rigidity/strength.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinegilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6532 times:

How I miss them...

Probably my favourite aircraft of all time!

I had a chance to only fly with Caledonian flying LGW-PFO and back again, on a Tristar. But atleast their Tristar's were the best looking of them all! (In my opinion.)  
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alistair Bridges



User currently offlineasctty From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6451 times:

Hey folks, don't forget the UK Royal Air Force keep these beauites in regular use and don't they look just great?

http://tinyurl.com/cskvfws

When they are replaced, along with the last of the VC-10s, by the A330-MRTT it really will be the end of an ERA. The guys that keep these old planes in the air and looking their best will surely shed a bucket load of tears as they are paid off.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6131 times:
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Flew several Eastern and many Delta L-1011's from Florida to New York and Boston. Too bad the -500 didn't come our in 1974 or 75. By the time it did it was too late, mny customers had the Dc-10-30 and the 767 were just around the corner.

User currently offlineaaron1011 From Ireland, joined May 2011, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5681 times:

The Tristar is/was my favorite airplane. I only got to fly on them three times. Once on the Caledonian/EI lease from DUB to SNN. The next time wasnt until 2004 on a charter to Barbados. We were ment to fly EuroAtlantic so Imagine my happiness to see one of the Luzair TriStars waiting for us @ Dub. I was seated next to door 2L so could see how the door opened and closed. We flew back on the EuroAtlantic tristar and even though it was older inside it was in much better conditon. I doubt I will ever get to fly on one again. A truly amazing aircraft and one of the most photogenic as well.

User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4923 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

That Caledonean livery is one I have never seen before on an L10. It looks fantastic on it.


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineaircanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

I really missed flying L1011s.. I lfew from YYZ-LAX, LHR-YWG and if i recall YYZ-LHR on AC.

User currently offlineavnut43 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

The TriStar is just a beautiful aircraft. How the intake was incorporated into the tail is very pleasing to the eye. Sounds corny. I always liked the Delta livery on it. It looked stately.

I wonder how history would have gone if Lockheed would have also put the CF6 in it?


User currently offlinebellancacf From United States of America, joined May 2011, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4735 times:

Going back and forth to Europe it seemed I was often in the rear seat of either an L1011 or a DC-10, and what a difference!

The L1011 would start its descent and the airplane would take up a new attitude, but without any shaking or rumbling: it would just start slowing and coming down. Landing was the endpoint of a very smooth process.

The DC-10 would start its descent, and the airflow around the aft fuselage would change: loud rumbling and shaking, as the air tried to find some way to fill that great honking notch between the fuselage and the tail nacelle. It was just not nice.

I always thought that these two planes were a great example of a job finished to the last detail and one not -- sorry, but that was just my impression as a back-back-seat passenger.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13005 posts, RR: 12
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4860 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 6):
The thing I liked most about it was that "shimmy time is takeoff time". I only saw this in the later years of operation, but when you were taking off all the ceiling and wall panels would vibrate and shake just before liftoff.

I was on a couple of them with TWA domestic (JFK-PDX), international (JFK-LHR), an ex-DL with ATA charter MXP-JFK in June 1985. Indeed they did have that unique interior 'shimmy' during takeoff and sometimes landing, but they did fly smoothly, were roomy and were pax as well as crew friendly, perhaps better than the DC-10.

Lockheed had stuck with prop/piston a/c too long, not really going into true commercial jets until the L-1011. Then they had the L-1011 but no smaller a/c to sell. If they had a 727/737/DC9 equivalent model, it would have helped for more sales of the L-1011 but also kept them in the commercial side a lot longer. I suspect the problems with the RR engines, (which not only hurt Lockheed but bankrupted RR, leading to a split of it's aircraft engine from its exclusive class car business) also caused a dry up of lending by banks that along with the jack up in fuel prices, competition from Boeing, Douglas (later MD) and some pre-Airbus Euro aircraft makers.

Sadly, we are pretty much seeing the end of significant use of the L-1011 and its disappearance from the skies very soon. I am sure Lockheed wants to move out of support of them. Few if any were used as freighters as the DC-10 would become. It had a comparatively small production run. Most of the recently and to be scrapped probably are near way too expensive mx checks. Thus a mix of issues are quickly making them museum pieces or ending up scrapped and recycled. Of course for many of us, it will fly forever in our minds.


User currently offlinebaje427 From Barbados, joined Jul 2011, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4828 times:

Remember flying BW Tristar BGI-LHR-BGI great memories those were the days of flying now every thing seems so generic

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10326 posts, RR: 14
Reply 27, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4990 times:

I can remember non-revving ORD-ATL on a DL DC-10 and returning on a L-1011 (or it may be reversed) in 1974. We were finally taking delivery of the Tristars and still had the interim DC-10s that we sold to UA and leased back, pending the Tristar deliveries. I always liked the Tristar, but, sadly, at the end, there were many, many mechanical delays. We still had our 747s at the time, too.



I think many pilots (who had flown both) would tell you that the L-1011 was a pilots' airplane, while the DC-10 was an "appliance". It was over engineered, but that's what endeared it to the pilots.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5467 posts, RR: 13
Reply 28, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4898 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
Lockheed had stuck with prop/piston a/c too long, not really going into true commercial jets until the L-1011. Then they had the L-1011 but no smaller a/c to sell. If they had a 727/737/DC9 equivalent model, it would have helped for more sales of the L-1011 but also kept them in the commercial side a lot longer.

I've always felt that way myself!
As a matter of fact I started a thread almost 10 years ago wondering why Lockheed did not produce a "first generation pure jet" to compete against the 707, DC-8 and Convair 880/890.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eed+First+Generation+Jet#ID1298549



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7062 posts, RR: 57
Reply 29, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4884 times:

Old timers on this site will remember the scottish gentleman on this site who thought happiness was a warm L-1011.

His fantasies resulted with him in prison, and his Tristar plans in tatters.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7965 posts, RR: 5
Reply 30, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

I think Lockheed--had it designed the L-1011 so it could accept an engine besides the RB.211--would probably have built the plane a lot longer.

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12396 posts, RR: 37
Reply 31, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 1):
One of the best looking airliners! It's a shame it only had a 30 year run

Actually, it was only a ten year production run - production ceased in '82.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 12):
"It's been 40 years, and I can still smell the fresh paint.. The china had never been used. The seats had never been sat in.. they called the Tristar the plane of dreams and it was.. it really was."

Ah, but it never flew into an iceberg! (A swamp, maybe, but not an iceberg!)

Quoting asctty (Reply 18):
Hey folks, don't forget the UK Royal Air Force keep these beauites in regular use and don't they look just great?

Yes, I had the pleasure of a KC1 flight back in 2004, with the good gentlemen of Brize Norton; managed to get the jump seat for landing as well; the Tristar has served the RAF well.

It really was a great airliner; I've very rarely heard bad things said about it (well, apart from its economics in later years). It was a pity it was such a loser, financially, for Lockheed, but I guess they can still look back on it with pride. Even though it might have lost them financially, it was widely admired - and loved by flight crews. Unlike its main competitor, the DC10, it never had a fatal accident which could be traced back to a design fault;

December 1972 (barely eight months in service) - Eastern 401: crew fiddling with landing gear light; forgot about altitude.

1980: Saudia. Stove used on board; fire spread on ground - all 301 on board lost.

1985: Delta 191. Windshear.

There was also a terrorist attack on an Airlanka Tristar and TWA lost one at JFK in 1992 during an aborted takeoff. Again, neither due to a fault with the aircraft.


User currently offlinencelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4553 times:

My first trip across the Big Pond was on a TWA L1011 and several after that. I recall they appeared to often have issues with the tail engine.
One of my worst delays was on a BA L1011 from Nice where we sat in the aircraft for 6 hours, all doors open (they used to slide up) with a rope across the doors to stop pax from falling off, whilst there was a leak in the brake system. When we heard drilling going on, the Captain informed us that they had trouble unscrewing panels because "bolt had sheared off". They eventually managed to fix after nearly as many hours of hard work and spare parts flown in from London. Still this was the last year of operation for BA because wear and tear made them increasingly difficult to maintain.
BTW best ever "art" painted on the BA cabin panels from artist Frederick Rowland Emett.
BA L1011 Cabin Art (by Ncelhr Nov 14 2008 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4213014&searchid=4214422&s=tristar+art#ID4214422

And for an example of the artwork, check out the Featherstone-Kite Flying Machine, seen from:
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/185208


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6849 posts, RR: 63
Reply 33, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4509 times:

A really classy plane. I got to fly on British Airtours and Delta. That it wasn't more successful is down more to bad luck than bad design.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3079 posts, RR: 5
Reply 34, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
I was on a couple of them with TWA domestic (JFK-PDX),

That TWA flight would have stopped in SEA, IIRC they never flew JFK-PDX non-stop, but did as a tag from SEA for many years. My first L-1011 experiences were flying PDX-SEA-PDX, just on this tag alone I've flown DL, EA, HA & TW L-1011's.
The L-1011 was a great plane to enjoy a short hop on, with a powerful take off and steep climb out for the 30 mins to PDX.

Since those days I've flown to HNL from LAX/SFO/SEA/PDX/ATL on L-1011's, as well as many routes all over the DL map.
I loved flying in these wonderful planes, and wish I had known then, that my last L-1011 was a HNL-LAX flight on DL, I would have taken pictures and enjoyed myself more, even though I was in F, I still remember it being pretty average.



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys stupidity - In honor of the mayor!
User currently offlinerichiemo From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

DC-10 and L1011 remain my two all-time favorites (with due respect to the now great 757. But the L1011 always was a notch above. Something about the S-curve in the tail engine and those big fat cockpit window. Nothing like her will ever exist again.

User currently offlinetymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4384 times:

Back in 1986 I was going from NY to London to spend a year. I could've just as easily taken one of many BA/TW/PA etc. flights but because I was (and am) an airplane nerd I chose to fly AC from LGA to YYZ (DC-9) and then an AC L-1011 from YYZ-YHZ-PIK-LHR. Good fun! Good memories.


Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 37, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
they did fly smoothly, were roomy and were pax as well as crew friendly, perhaps better than the DC-10.

I flew on quite a few L-1011s (BA/AC/EA/TW/PA/CX) but always preferred the DC-10, if only due to the much larger (and better-positioned) windows which made the cabin seem brighter. Apart from the size, I always found the L-1011 windows positioned too high on the fuselage (I have the same problem with A320 windows compared to the somewhat larger and lower 737 windows). The L-1011 also seemed to cruise with a more pronounced nose-up attitude than other widebodies.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10326 posts, RR: 14
Reply 38, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 37):
The L-1011 also seemed to cruise with a more pronounced nose-up attitude than other widebodies.

Probably for the same reason that we preferred the 727-200 to be mostly tail heavy....if flew more efficiently that way.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2204 posts, RR: 8
Reply 39, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

Quoting avnut43 (Reply 23):
I wonder how history would have gone if Lockheed would have also put the CF6 in it?

John Newhouse's excellent book "The Sporty Game" says that UA asked Lockheed to offer the L-1011 with the CF6. It would have cost Lockheed about $100 million to re design the TriStar to accomodate both the CF6 and the RB211. Lockheed's then-president Dan Haughton chose not to meet UA's demands, because he thought UA would choose the TriStar even if the CF6 wasn't available.

It was the wrong decision. Haughton later said that not offering both the RB211 and the CF6 was one of the two biggest mistakes of his life; the other being his decision not to purchase Douglas.

According to the book, Delta also preferred the CF6 over the RB211, but felt the TriStar was enough better than the DC-10 that they chose the TriStar even with their 2nd choice engine.

The book also says that, if UA had chosen the L-1011, the DC-10 would not have been built as a trijet; McDonnell Douglas would either have cancelled the program, or re designed it as a smaller twinjet. Had the DC-10 been built as a twinjet, the A300 would never have been built.

I would highly recommend The Sporty Game to anyone who wants to learn more about the rise of Airbus and the decline of Lockheed and McDonnell Douglas. Although it is 30 years old, it is still every bit as interesting as it was when it was published.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineDano1977 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Jun 2008, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

First and only trip in a tristar was on BA from London to New York, to watch my dad run the marathon.

I narrowly missed out on a trip on an RAF one when I was in the Air Training Corps, although they made up or that with a trip in the nimrod around the bay of biscay.



Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4877 posts, RR: 43
Reply 41, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

I have fond memories of the L1011, as it was the first time my parents allowed me to travel alone, just for the sake of flying!

I flew on Air Canada's inaugural L1011 flights YYZ-YVR-YYZ, AC105/AC148 as a young lad of 13, in March 1973. It operated out of Toronto Terminal One (old) just before AC moved to Terminal Two, and it was the last time I had ever seen seat assignment using the big chart of stickers.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently onlineB595 From UK - Scotland, joined Mar 2009, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 36):
nd then an AC L-1011 from YYZ-YHZ-PIK-LHR.

Why the stop in PIK?

YHZ-LHR is only ~2800 mi. This should've been within the range of even the L1011-1.

Was this a cargo stop in PIK? Or was YHZ's runway was too short for an L1011 to do a high gross weight takeoff? Those are the only things that come to mind...


User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2318 posts, RR: 7
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

As fond as our memories are for the L-1011, it's equally unfortunate that it's useful service life was so short. From the production run, to the number of airplanes built, and to it's retirement from service...already some 10+ years ago. All of it seems unfairly brief, compared to the 747s and DC-10s of the same era and the widebody twins of today.

As a Chicagoan, Tristars were few and far between, post 1980s. (ORD was DC-10 heaven, even into the late 90's). A big regret of mine is missing one in 2000/2001 before DL retired them... even if it meant taking two extra legs to catch one. As it is, my last Tristar was circa 1988.

I won't make the same mistake again, which is why I flew ORD-DTW-MCI to catch a couple D95s last week.  



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4877 posts, RR: 43
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting B595 (Reply 42):
Why the stop in PIK?

This was a scheduled stop, and a part of AC's (and BA's) Canada-UK network. PIK was eventually replaced with GLA, then eliminated all together.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3707 times:

My first ever flight was in an L1011 with British Airtours from LGW to NAP in 1987 - I dont really remember it as I was only 6 years old, but I do remember the wonderful crew. I also remember being stuck in our resort in SOrrento as there were the huge hurricanes going on in SE England. We came back to LGW to find most of the area without power and many of the BCP busses has been crushed by trees or had their windshields smashed in with debris.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 26):
Remember flying BW Tristar BGI-LHR-BGI great memories those were the days of flying now every thing seems so generic

This was my second L1011 flight in 1990, and turned out to be the last. Even then (22 years ago!!), the L15 was a little different than most of the other widebodies at LHR. The next time I took BW, they had the A340.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1455 posts, RR: 44
Reply 46, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3620 times:

I'm pleased to say that I got to fly on a TWA L1011 in 1995 or 1996 (can't remember which) STL-LAX. I was in a port side window seat right around the trailing edge. WhisperJet my backside. It was *thunderous* right there.

I greatly enjoyed it.



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlinetymnbalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3613 times:

Quoting B595 (Reply 42):
Why the stop in PIK?

YHZ-LHR is only ~2800 mi. This should've been within the range of even the L1011-1.

Basically the flight was for YYZ-PIK pax, YHZ-PIK pax and YHZ-LHR. I was the only person flying YYZ-LHR...to the point that my luggage was offloaded at PIK. When I got to YYZ, AC tried to put me on a nonstop YYZ-LHR but I didn't accept.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlinebaje427 From Barbados, joined Jul 2011, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3591 times:

What where the longest routes operated by the Tristar?

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 49, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3583 times:

EA and AC used to have what was then an innovative scheme for adjusting capacity seasonally. EA had 2 'surplus' L-1011-1 a/c in summer which AC took on lease. Kept basic EA colour scheme but AC titles above the cheat line. In the winter the a/c reverted to EA to, one supposes, support Caribbean/Florida ops. Not sure how long this arrangement persisted but certainly it was in effect during the mid-70s as I recall seeing one or other of the a/c at YWG several times during the busy summer season.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3568 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 37):
The L-1011 also seemed to cruise with a more pronounced nose-up attitude than other widebodies.

I read that the FAs complained that at cruise level with the slight nose up attitude that it was hard pushing the carts from the back galley to the front.

I flew EA's Whisperliner, as well as Delta's, TWA's, AirCanada's and PanAm's. Always looked forward to that rev up with that certain sound. It started out 2-4-2 with a mini closet between the two inside seats.

Several years after the L1011 was chosen by Delta, I wrote a letter and asked why DL chose the L1011 over the DC10. I got a very nice letter from corporate offices explaining that the L1011 at the time the order was made had a better developed zero visibility landing system and that ATL had weather conditions needing that advancement. (Not to mention SAN,SFO and LAX).


User currently onlineB595 From UK - Scotland, joined Mar 2009, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3548 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 44):
This was a scheduled stop, and a part of AC's (and BA's) Canada-UK network. PIK was eventually replaced with GLA, then eliminated all together.
Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 47):
Basically the flight was for YYZ-PIK pax, YHZ-PIK pax and YHZ-LHR. I was the only person flying YYZ-LHR...to the point that my luggage was offloaded at PIK. When I got to YYZ, AC tried to put me on a nonstop YYZ-LHR but I didn't accept.

Thanks. Interesting that a dot on the map like PIK got scheduled L-1011 service that was more than just a tech stop.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Prestwick is the smallest town to ever see scheduled L-1011s.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 52, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 44):
Quoting B595 (Reply 42):
Why the stop in PIK?

This was a scheduled stop, and a part of AC's (and BA's) Canada-UK network. PIK was eventually replaced with GLA, then eliminated all together.

In the mid-70s I was going to post-grad studies at King's College in London. Kept my pass privileges as I was a registered student which was wonderful. So I had a lot of opportunities to go LHR-YWG, often by L-1011, sometimes making a brief stop at PIK. Great flight usually, I always liked the 1011. Never more than one from the aisle was a big selling point, although later in its' life AC went to 2-5-2 instead of 2-4-2. Person in the middle was at a disadvantage, for sure. But I still think overall 2-5-2- is better than 3-3-3 as in the current 77L/W fleet. Fewer people having to traverse two seats to get to the aisle.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2204 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 49):
EA and AC used to have what was then an innovative scheme for adjusting capacity seasonally.

EA had a similar arrangement with TWA in the 1970s. I believe this arrangement also involved two aircraft.

My only flights on L-1011s were on BA, DTW-YMX-LHR-YMX-DTW in 1989. I spent a semester in London, and my choices for getting there were a BA L-1011 via YMX or a PA A310 nonstop. I'd already logged both BA and PA, so I chose BA soley because I thought this might be my only chance to log an L-1011.

Although I enjoyed my flights, I really didn't notice anything different about the L-1011 versus my many flights on DC-10s. My main memory of the flights was how empty YMX was. After our night time landing from DTW, we taxiied for nearly ten minutes without any signs of humans other than the runway / taxiway lights until we reached the terminal area.

It's ironic that the A310, which was relatively commonplace in 1989, is now almost as rare as the DC-10 and L-1011. I finally logged A310s in 2006 on TP, EWR-LIS-LHR. Never wait too long to log anything, no matter how ordinary it may seem now, or you will regret it later!



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 54, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 53):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 49):
EA and AC used to have what was then an innovative scheme for adjusting capacity seasonally.

EA had a similar arrangement with TWA in the 1970s. I believe this arrangement also involved two aircraft.

Interesting, I did not know that. But an innovative way of coping with traffic up/down seasonally.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 53):
My main memory of the flights was how empty YMX was.

YMX was a colossal waste of money. One of Trudeau's major mistakes. I confirm your observations from my own experiences there, almost no humans in sight. It would only have worked if YUL had been closed at the same time, but this would have destroyed the YUL-hinterland market (YYZ, YQB, Maritimes, etc.)



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7359 posts, RR: 14
Reply 55, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3082 times:
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Quoting B595 (Reply 51):
Interesting that a dot on the map like PIK got scheduled L-1011 service that was more than just a tech stop.

All long-haul routes from Scotland had to route via PIK until the rules got relaxed around 1990/1991.


User currently offlinefanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1603 posts, RR: 5
Reply 56, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

I loved this plane... First flight was SLC-PDX in 1994 I believe. Flew that route many times! Last flight for me was MCO-ATL. I had booked MCO-ATL-SLC and avoided the non-stop to get one last ride. I think this was 2001 or so. Connected to a 767-400 from ATL-SLC and remembered how sad I was the L-1011s were being replaced by this cramped plane! Lol. My buddy I was flying with liked the 767-400 better, but what the hell does he know? Lol jk


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3971 posts, RR: 34
Reply 57, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

When I finished my apprenticeship in 1973, my first real job was provishioning spares for Tristars for BA. The aircraft ordered by BEA had been hijacked by BOAC after the merger and started flying in the Gulf.
At the same time I was sent to AMS to change a Nbr 2 engine on a BA Tristar. The technicians at LHR were refusing to work the aircraft, so all maintenance was done in AMS and CDG by BA Line Maint.
This was BAs first nbr 2 engine change. We had sold a fly away Nbr 2 engine change stand to Gulf Air, and I managed to get it delivered to AMS, where we built it up for our engine change! Two instructors, 6 GF engineers, and 6 of us production engineers changed the engine in a KLM hangar.
Then we had to get the engine change stand back in its box, that was the hard part.
So started my L1011 career, then off to GF where I worked on them in BAH for 11 years,( and BA LTU and Sri lanka ones) then off to ARN where I worked on TWA L1011 for 6 years, also BWIA (who had a weekly L1011 to ARN) and Caledonian, and finally the Nordic East fleet of 4 which were based at ARN, and BA did all the maintenance for 3 years.
Loads of flights, most memorable flying the simulator into Kai Tak, doing a Cat 3 autoland at CDG sitting in that wonderfull armchair behind the Captain, and a BA flight fröm CDG-LHR which lasted 45 mins, and 120 Club passengers got a drink, meal and coffee.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 58, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 44):
Quoting B595 (Reply 42):
Why the stop in PIK?

This was a scheduled stop, and a part of AC's (and BA's) Canada-UK network. PIK was eventually replaced with GLA, then eliminated all together.

According to the 2006 Canadian census, the Scottish make up the largest ethnic group in the province of Nova Scotia (which of course means "New Scotland" in Latin), with 28.3% of the total population indicating that they have Scottish origins, slightly ahead of English at 28.1%, followed by Irish at 19.9%.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 59, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2721 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 52):
later in its' life AC went to 2-5-2 instead of 2-4-2.

Pan Am's 12 L-1011-500s were 10-abreast (3-4-3) in Y class like some charter carriers and were best avoided at least in Y. I never understood why Pan Am went with 10-abreast on their L-1011s which made the Y class product on those aircraft notably more cramped than the rest of their fleet, and all of their direct competitors.

BA's early L-1011-1s used within Europe were also 10-abreast in Y, and that was during the same period when many other L-1011 (and DC-10) operators were only 8-abreast (2-4-2) before changing to 2-5-2 by the late 1970s or so. By that time early 747s were also being converted from 9-abreast (3-4-2) to 10-abreast (3-4-3), which is comparable to 9-abreast on the narrower L-1011 and DC-10.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2816 posts, RR: 45
Reply 60, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

Best plane I ever flew.

I don't know what else there is to say.

She was the Queen of the Fleet.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4877 posts, RR: 43
Reply 61, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting tymnbalewne (Reply 47):
When I got to YYZ, AC tried to put me on a nonstop YYZ-LHR but I didn't accept.

I remember years ago, I was booked to fly on a YS11 of Transair, YYZ-YAM-YQT-YHD-YWG, who wouldn't??? But TZ was handled by AC in YYZ, and they too offered to put me on a non-stop YYZ-YWG, (which happened to be an L1011!) but I too didn't bite!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
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