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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 3  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 20764 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

As the previous thread (Part 2) become too long, with more than 250 replies, we are now opening a new one for the continuation of this discussion.

Please find the previous one here:

Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 2 (by SA7700 Mar 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)


Regards,
Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13249 posts, RR: 100
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 20659 times:
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Ok, there was one mention during a JP Morgan Webcast. Has there been anything more substantial to the rumor? I've found the discussion fascinating, but have we any further tidbits to fuel the rumor flame?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7645 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20602 times:

There is a lot of meat to this rumor. In fact its more than a rumor, its an option.

The fact is there is no firm deal in place. The fact is that this is being looked at and is being considered as an option for DL to acquire a small narrowbody and for WN to unload the 717s.

The rumor is around all of the specifics of the deal and whether or not it will actually be made.

Give this story a few more weeks, we should all now more in the next 1-2 months as to how both sides will proceed.


User currently offlineakelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2193 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17088 times:

Anything new on this?

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7645 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16628 times:

Nothing new really other than more rumor of the same.

Negotiations are supposedly still going on however it is believed that DL is in the driver seat as they are in a position to drive the deal they want or they could easily defect to Airbus and get the A319 if the price is right.

Rumor is that some type of decision (announcement?) is supposedly going to be made by the end of the month.


User currently offlinePHXA340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 891 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16630 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
Negotiations are supposedly still going on however it is believed that DL is in the driver seat as they are in a position to drive the deal they want or they could easily defect to Airbus and get the A319 if the price is right.

Hasn't Anderson said that he finds the CASM of the 319 "incredibly challenging"


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7645 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16556 times:

Yes, hence why they've added seats and would likely add more if/when they do mods to add slim-line seats.

That being said if the ownership cost is right, it could offset the operating costs.

It leads many to wonder how serious DL is in regards to getting more A319s but it can be used as a bargaining chip. Depends to what length Airbus wants DL's business and for what reasons to keep this strategic customer happy.


User currently offlinefadecfault From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16160 times:

As far as some type of negotiations going on it is no longer a rumor in my book.
We had the VP of SWA maintenance come and present a power point presentations recently concerning the future of MX.
I was not there but I saw the printout of the presentations and in it contained the costs to fly each a/c (block hr, casm) , fleet retirement options, and a little blurb that said they are waiting for an answer from delta this month. It also noted that if the offloading of the 717 were to occur it would be over 4 years.


User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16164 times:

Here's what I can provide on the latest rumors:

DL will take ownership of the WN leases from Boeing. Because these leases were agreed to while the 717 was still in production, the terms (monthly payments) are not equitable to the current market value for a 717 lease agreement. To counterbalance, WN will provide compensation to DL for each 717, through the length of the lease agreement. In addition, DL is requesting that WN complete a minor mod to the BR715, prior to transfer. The mod is said to increase the service length between overhauls and improve the reliability numbers, which are already respectable. In return DL may need to provide WN with 737 delivery slots and/or ATL gate consolidation.

Either way, I expect to see 717s in DL colors by Q1 of 2013. First delivery potentially in Dec 2012 or Jan 2013, with all 88 on property by mid 2014.

As for Airbus, there are said to be some available A319/A320s of 2005-07 vintage that are being steeply discounted. If the price is right, DL may act on these too. Perhaps someone else can shed more light on this development.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16064 times:

Quoting fadecfault (Reply 7):
It also noted that if the offloading of the 717 were to occur it would be over 4 years.

With the additional 737 slots, I think it will turn out to be about half that length of time. If it takes up to 4 years, there will have had to been a hold-up in the way of contract agreement, approval, NB deliveries, etc. "Immediate" seems to be the mindset from GK and WN.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1969 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15969 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
DL will take ownership of the WN leases from Boeing. Because these leases were agreed to while the 717 was still in production, the terms (monthly payments) are not equitable to the current market value for a 717 lease agreement. To counterbalance, WN will provide compensation to DL for each 717, through the length of the lease agreement. In addition, DL is requesting that WN complete a minor mod to the BR715, prior to transfer. The mod is said to increase the service length between overhauls and improve the reliability numbers, which are already respectable. In return DL may need to provide WN with 737 delivery slots and/or ATL gate consolidation.

In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13249 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15926 times:
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Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
The rumor is around all of the specifics of the deal and whether or not it will actually be made.

Give this story a few more weeks, we should all now more in the next 1-2 months as to how both sides will proceed.

So we have more tidbits on talks. Thank you. Too much of the prior threads were into the speculation. So I will wait to see the results.

Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 5):
Hasn't Anderson said that he finds the CASM of the 319 "incredibly challenging"

I'm certain Airbus and the engine vendor (IAE?) could make a deal to interest DL.

Quoting fadecfault (Reply 7):
I was not there but I saw the printout of the presentations and in it contained the costs to fly each a/c (block hr, casm) , fleet retirement options, and a little blurb that said they are waiting for an answer from delta this month. It also noted that if the offloading of the 717 were to occur it would be over 4 years.

Not that is interesting... and a reasonable time frame. It would explain how Boeing would transition from the 737NG to the 737MAX.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15871 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 10):
In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.

AS a Delta retiree, it seems like a good deal all around to me


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3543 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15723 times:

Southwest wants to get rid of them and probably adjust ATL gates as well so they will need to be the ones offering delta a great deal. Let's see if this happens I have no doubt negotiations have happened but both sides probably need to analyze if they gain enough in the deal to finalize it

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15711 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
I'm certain Airbus and the engine vendor (IAE?) could make a deal to interest DL.

CFM  



yep.
User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3309 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15454 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 10):
In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.

Its called Supply and Demand. It is completely fair.


User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1105 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15362 times:
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Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 10):

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
DL will take ownership of the WN leases from Boeing. Because these leases were agreed to while the 717 was still in production, the terms (monthly payments) are not equitable to the current market value for a 717 lease agreement. To counterbalance, WN will provide compensation to DL for each 717, through the length of the lease agreement. In addition, DL is requesting that WN complete a minor mod to the BR715, prior to transfer. The mod is said to increase the service length between overhauls and improve the reliability numbers, which are already respectable. In return DL may need to provide WN with 737 delivery slots and/or ATL gate consolidation.

In this rumor, it sure seems like WN has to do everything and DL gets a fresh "new" plane. Doesn't seem right.

It is very simple. Southwest does not want to keep the 717s. It wants them GONE. There does not look like there are airlines or leasing companies lining up to take the 717s off Southwest's hands. Therefore, Delta or any other potentially interested party is pretty much able to set the terms for acquiring this orphan aircraft fleet of 717s.   


User currently offlinebomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 15007 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 13):
Southwest wants to get rid of them and probably adjust ATL gates as well so they will need to be the ones offering delta a great deal. Let's see if this happens I have no doubt negotiations have happened but both sides probably need to analyze if they gain enough in the deal to finalize it

Could this mean that WN would potentially trade the old Air Tran gates in Concourse C that fit 717's for some gates somewhere else? Maybe Concourse B? I remember reading one of the major concerns was that the old Air Tran gates are sized for 717's which have a shorter wingspan than the 737's that WN wants to consolidate their fleet to. How does the 717's wingspan compare to the MD-88's, MD-90's, and Airbus aircraft? Would these aircraft also be able to fit at the old Air Tran Gates? Seems to me that if there is substance to the deal it might be a win for both DL and WN in this case at least.

Peace   



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14881 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 17):
Could this mean that WN would potentially trade the old Air Tran gates in Concourse C that fit 717's for some gates somewhere else? Maybe Concourse B? I remember reading one of the major concerns was that the old Air Tran gates are sized for 717's which have a shorter wingspan than the 737's that WN wants to consolidate their fleet to. How does the 717's wingspan compare to the MD-88's, MD-90's, and Airbus aircraft? Would these aircraft also be able to fit at the old Air Tran Gates? Seems to me that if there is substance to the deal it might be a win for both DL and WN in this case at least.

No chance. DL just went through a very extensive gate re-alignment last summer on all concourses (T-B). T can now park up to a 767 on every gate except T8 (up to a 753). T2 can park up to a 744 and T3 can park up to an 333/777. A concourse can now park 75Ws wingtip to wingtip and they also removed a few gates to allow more spacing to have a few more 767 gates. They did the same thing on B. No to mention C/D does not have the below wing real estate required to run DL's baggage OPS. B concourse received a huge bag room mod just last year and added a larger baggage re-route area on the south-side. They also invested close to $100M between 2007 and 2010 upgraded an underground conveyor system that runs bags from the domestic bag room on T, under A and to the B bag room and nto the brand new C bag room.

In short, if there is going to be gate swaps, it will be between C an D; not the mainline gates on B. Either way, there will be some $$$ involved. DL's gates on both C and D are spaced for RJs. For WN to consolidate on either concourse, gates will have to be removed to allow the parking of 737s.

I've always said it only makes sense for DL/FL to eventually operate out of one concourse. Either DL move to D and FL to C or the other way around. My personal feelings is that DL OPS will consolidate on C with DL giving up the D-North gates.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 803 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 14747 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 18):
In short, if there is going to be gate swaps, it will be between C an D; not the mainline gates on B. Either way, there will be some $$$ involved. DL's gates on both C and D are spaced for RJs. For WN to consolidate on either concourse, gates will have to be removed to allow the parking of 737s.

Sorry to get off topic, but I also remember hearing that T was going to become the "business market" concourse with LGA, BOS, ORD, etc. leaving out of T only. Is that still the current plan?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13249 posts, RR: 100
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14582 times:
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Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
In addition, DL is requesting that WN complete a minor mod to the BR715, prior to transfer. The mod is said to increase the service length between overhauls and improve the reliability numbers, which are already respectable. In return DL may need to provide WN with 737 delivery slots and/or ATL gate consolidation.

I'm curious to know more about the mod. All 717 operators have want a BR715 with longer service intervals between overhauls. That has been the one major weakness of the 717. If DL (or Boeing or RR) is willing to pay for it... Good news!

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 8):
Either way, I expect to see 717s in DL colors by Q1 of 2013. First delivery potentially in Dec 2012 or Jan 2013, with all 88 on property by mid 2014.

That seems like an amazingly fast transition. Then again, the most economical transition is one within 12 months.

I'm curious to see if this deal happens. There is a huge difference between negotiation and announcement.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 14449 times:

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 19):
Sorry to get off topic, but I also remember hearing that T was going to become the "business market" concourse with LGA, BOS, ORD, etc. leaving out of T only. Is that still the current plan?

First i've heard about that. That would require very careful a/c planning and gate assignments. And knowing how the gate keeping system works in ATL, i'm not sure how flexibile such an idea will be. however, T generally sees about the same departures everyday. Can't speak for AM but PM; PTY, SJO, SJU (76Q departure), GDL, MEX, BSB, LAX, JAX, BOG, NAS, LAS and some others come to mind. Those operate out of T pretty consistently. BOS, LGA, ORD seems to be a mixed bag.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineadtall From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 73 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 14258 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21):

I can't dig up where I saw that (was in some public Delta communication earlier this year), but that was the plan, in conjunction with F opening up and becoming fully functional. This would all happen later this year after the opening and after summer, not right away. The idea was that since they could gate almost all the int'l flights that currently depart on T/A/B on E/F with the additional gates, and since T is right past the TSA checkpoint and will suddenly have all this available gate space, that the high-frequency departures to business destinations (LGA, DCA, ORD, BOS) could all run out of T to give business fliers the greatest convenience. Whether ALL the departures can go from T is debatable but at least the large majority could gate there in theory, say two gates each for LGA and DCA with three gates shared between BOS and ORD. The domestic to domestic turns could fill in the vacated gate space in the rest of the airport left by the high-frequency flights, and voila! My speculation here, but if they did that then T could possibly be turned into a Shuttle-ish concourse, it already feels kinda isolated as it is.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13469 times:

Quoting adtall (Reply 22):

ot doubting you at all. Just hadn't seen any literature on the idea. Cool idea in theory I guess. In practice, we'll have to see  



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13351 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 17):
How does the 717's wingspan compare to the MD-88's, MD-90's, and Airbus aircraft?

The 717's wingspan is comparable to that of a DC-9 (-30/40/50); which, I believe, is narrower than all of the above.

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 17):
I remember reading one of the major concerns was that the old Air Tran gates are sized for 717's which have a shorter wingspan than the 737's that WN wants to consolidate their fleet to.

Back when FL first started taking delivery of their 73Gs; they originally declined getting the blended winglets because of their narrower gate spaces at ATL. They obviously changed their changed their minds (on the winglets) a short time later; likely due to rising fuel costs.

[Edited 2012-05-08 16:43:56]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
25 FlyASAGuy2005 : I think the whole gate spacing thing is a tad overblown and a non-starter in the grand scheme of things. Moving forward, they will do what they are c
26 Post contains images lightsaber : It will be made up a little via gauge (738) too. Lightsaber
27 B4REAL : I think WN is cutting their losses given the situation. Effectively the best way out of a jam without the trump card of lease renegotiation through b
28 airbuske : Seen Airtran manuals in the TOC. Expect an announcement this week. (I was told we would have one this afternoon but I don't see any as yet)
29 Post contains images lightsaber : I suspect there will be a middle ground. Boeing doesn't want to 'rake WN over the coals.' For either a sale of the 717s or a longer lease, they will
30 tztristar500 : To add aircraft that fast at 4 per month over a year and a half is not possible with bridge checks and even just changing out seats and interior colo
31 PSU.DTW.SCE : One iteration of the rumor says 12 on property for DL by the end of 2012 with deliveries going at 3-4 per month through 2014. Plus they don't need new
32 tztristar500 : If the FL seat layout stayed the same, then it could be done that quickly with some engineering up front. Seat covers and carpeting cannot be changed
33 B4REAL : It's definitely a *win* for DL. As the DC-9s finally go out, a mainline type comes in. It's also a win for Boeing, keeps them flying (parts).
34 DeltaL1011man : Anderson said somewhere that they will start doing Key business markets from T. We will see, I'm with you seem like a pain just know how ATL works. A
35 bhmdiversion : After speaking to a ALPA rep for one of the regionals, apparently, they were told that they would like to raise the scope for Delta pilots to 125 seat
36 rj777 : I think once we get a press release or announcement or something like that, (which at this point seems to be inevitable) the thread title should be ch
37 PSU.DTW.SCE : That person is frankly has no clue. Note they are an ALPA rep for a regional. Delta pilots will under no circumstances allow scope to increase in sea
38 cokepopper : I'm pretty sure Delta tried this out of T around 10 years ago. Anyone else remember this? I would guess any BIG announcement usually comes on a Thurs
39 cv640 : I'm sure Delta would like changes to our scope but there is no way Delta pilots would sign off on it. If ALPA presents that to us, I'm sure they'd be
40 KingAir200 : Might just be that big happening the DPA has been looking for.
41 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : What are THEY smokin!! because I want some!! LMFAO
42 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : ALPA would have to be pretty stupid to allow any scope change involving increasing passenger seats. Delta would probably like having the DPA, if that
43 KingAir200 : It would be. My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, however, as the 125 seat scope is ridiculous.
44 PSU.DTW.SCE : That's a great story, got any more good ones?
45 DeltaL1011man : Delta management was part of the YX....they would love nothing more than to farm out as much flying as they could, they just can't. HA! Nothing. ASA
46 litz : Big difference is now you have the new international terminal coming online ... Used to be they would send some international flights out from T (wit
47 bobnwa : Are you a Delta pilot or a member of DPA,APA,SWAPA,DALPA, that gives you insider info on this topic? If you aren't a member of any, how can you make
48 FlyASAGuy2005 : My point was that they must be smoking something to think that such an idea would EVER past muster. Not gonna happen..
49 DeltaL1011man : worth a shot to ask. Think about EV(is it still EV?) and all the pilots that are going to end up jobless due to parking of 50 seaters of the next 5 y
50 cv640 : I doubt Delta wants the DPA, it is quite militant. I'm not sure how things would work out, but ALPA has gone along with all of Delta's proposals. I do
51 Post contains images lightsaber : And a win for WN to simplify their fleet (pure 737). Nor would it be proposed. The concept of the 717 as RJ just doesn't pass any rational test. Repl
52 Post contains images delta2ual : Back when we had hourly to DFW, ORD, LGA, DCA, BOS, & PHL (Leo Mullins idea) the majority were out of T. It was felt the FF's would like the conv
53 mayor : Doesn't that all have to be done thru their owners, Skywest?
54 FlyASAGuy2005 : I suppose so. They wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't..
55 bhmdiversion : I know this, but this was amajor point for the DPA va. ALPA argument to them... Who knows!
56 mayor : I would think that if the 717 comes online, runs some of the regional routes with mainline crews, that the DPA AND ALPA would be overjoyed.
57 B727FA : The 717 will easily replace the remaining DC9 fleet and better than 50 RJ's. This would be a win for ML.
58 Post contains images DeltaL1011man : eh, yes and no. I'm not sure how OO works as far as contracts so maybe. I believe though that EV is basically its own company as far as contracts and
59 mayor : I think it would be more rational to use the 717s to replace CR7s and CR9s on some routes and move those a/c down into spots where there are RJs, now
60 goldenstate : This is difficult to reconcile with the fact that they recently ordered 100 737s and are soon to complete a deal for more narrowbody aircraft. You se
61 Post contains images 727forever : How exactly do they do this? Regional pilots only have a claim on the flying that they have been awarded per their companies AMCI agreement for the l
62 goldenstate : This is entirely a non-issue. In the context of Delta's current financial performance and outlook, it is absurd to spend time discussing some scenari
63 FlyASAGuy2005 : I'm sure this has been asked and answered already but with this being string #3, it's hard sifting through the other 500 or so posts. What's FL's F/Y
64 timf : The FL configuration is 12/105, with F pitch at 37" and Y pitch at 30". Unless they install slimline seats, they are going to have to remove a row of
65 DeltaL1011man : ah adding 100 lower paying jets compared to the bulk of the fleet they will be replacing and on par with the rest. but what does that to do with more
66 aloha73g : Just for reference, HA manages to squeeze in 123 seats (8/115) with 1 LAV and minimal galley space. -Aloha!
67 jetstar : I have flown on HA’s 717’s, they are fairly tight seating in coach with about a 30” seat pitch, but for an average flight of one half hour, it
68 aloha73g : During an average day maybe 2-3 passengers use the LAV. Its mostly used by the crew. F/As in flight & on the ground pilots on the ground....since
69 PSU.DTW.SCE : You know I've been biting my hand for a while in regards to some of your posts. You are not a member of ALPA/DALPA etc. I know you've been reading AP
70 mayor : To hear the "screwees" tell it, yes.
71 goldenstate : To anyone that has both feet firmly planted in the world of economic reality, this is very unusual logic. You seem to be arguing that DAL investing i
72 bobnwa : You are absolutely right about Delta L1011 not being a member of ALPA/DALPA or any other pilots union. He is not a pilot for any airline but likes to
73 strfyr51 : if Delta is buying up all the available B717's and MD90's then they have a craftiness not seen before. they may be paying $.25 on a Dollar for the air
74 FlyASAGuy2005 : Thanks for the numbers although I will say that I think EC will be smaller. The 88s that seat more pax only has 3 rows of EC. I think the 717s would
75 DeltaL1011man : your right agreed. I think Slim lines will be the plan but I think, at least if the numbers above are true, they will wait to add them. Maybe once so
76 mayor : DALPA has been plenty militant in the past, particularly during the BK. Many of the members were ready to throw the rest of the employees "under the
77 timf : I debated about that number but figured if they were going to eliminate a full row of Y they might as well make an extra row of EC. If they only go w
78 goldenstate : I wouldn't see either engine as particularly attractive for an in-house overhaul shop at this time. That's a very convenient exit from a post which i
79 DeltaL1011man : no more attractive than the JT8s. And the V2500s have a large MRO market, being the engine on the M90 and 320. lol no just not trying to get banned.
80 papatango : IMHO. Airbus will come out the winner with additional A319's t Delta
81 Dalmd88 : I'm not sure they can bring the BMW in house. First off they only can if BMW allows it. I think they currently have approved only MTU in Europe for o
82 burnsie28 : The DC9 has a wingspan of 93' 4" and the MD88/90 has a wingspan of 107' 10" Agreed What makes you think they would want to farm out any flying? Being
83 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : Delta still maintains an engine shop at MSP. I do not know if it has the capacity to take on the BMW engine. I also do not know if Delta intends to k
84 goldenstate : The V2500 is a mature product and most of those operated in the Americas are now locked up in long term deals with other vendors.
85 dtw9 : To be exact, the 717 has the DC-9-34 wing. The incidence was changed by 1.25 degrees over other DC-9's to improve drag.
86 bobnwa : Hasn't happened and more than likely won't happen. Better go back to APC and re-read it.
87 gigneil : If you're a liberal you can spell. NS
88 mayor : There have been many OO pilots lately who are going with WN......mainly, for some reason, because DL doesn't want to hire them. I'm sure it's because
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Why No DL 764 In The Latest Livery? posted Mon May 18 2009 15:02:16 by American 767
Rumor--Last DL 1011 In New Colors posted Wed Apr 25 2001 03:53:10 by 767-332ER
F9 Leaves MKE-LGA Route And DL Moves In posted Mon Apr 23 2012 22:06:53 by YXwatcherMKE
Rumor: DL FA Seniority Agreement Finalized posted Fri Feb 10 2012 13:22:47 by jetjack74
AA VS DL & UA In BK Contracts posted Wed Feb 1 2012 19:44:16 by ripcordd
New China-USA Deal In Place Today? posted Sun Jun 20 2004 01:49:30 by As739x
DL Interested In Acquiring AMR (Part 2)? posted Tue Jan 17 2012 19:34:19 by LipeGIG
DL Uploads First Aircraft Swaps In Schedule Part 2 posted Wed Mar 3 2010 18:15:56 by Airport
Why No DL 764 In The Latest Livery? posted Mon May 18 2009 15:02:16 by American 767
Rumor--Last DL 1011 In New Colors posted Wed Apr 25 2001 03:53:10 by 767-332ER
Superjet Disappears Off Radar In Indonesia Part 2 posted Thu May 10 2012 09:23:58 by wilco737
Superjet Disappears Off Radar In Indonesia Part 1 posted Wed May 9 2012 03:22:35 by Sasha
F9 Leaves MKE-LGA Route And DL Moves In posted Mon Apr 23 2012 22:06:53 by YXwatcherMKE