BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 16005 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17643 times:
Quoting Flighty (Reply 12): The Itailian business market is in the crapper. It is mainly tourism market, most profitably served as such.
Especially Rome. Although it's miserable in the summer.
Basically this is what happens when the economy sucks. Business travel hurts and tourist travel hurts worse since vacation is one of the first things to go when times are bad. I have to wonder how the Italians get in such a poor financial position seeing as they don't seem to spend much money maintaining things.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15416 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 7): Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3):
MXP, though, that's where the business is.
Which they're suspending out of ATL...
Quoting Mir (Reply 11): Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3):
MXP, though, that's where the business is.
And yet they cut ATL-MXP. Curious....
Yes, I saw that thread. Perhaps the ATL-MXP market isn't all that strong (is Atlanta a fashion centre, for example). But then again perhaps this reflects the generally terrible state of the Italian economy more than anything.
pnd100 From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14358 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 21):
Seeing the other thread about ATL cutting Milan, How much Italian service is left for DL?
According to their interactive route map on the website they have service to VCE & seasonal service to PSA after FCO / MXP are cut.
How is DL's intercontinental service? There are mixed reviews of DL online but most of these are domestic or short haul international. Was this a factor in their lack of success in Italy or is it purely Italian economic conditions?
usdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 13436 times:
Quoting etops1 (Reply 23): So why is it that US can make it work from PHL and even CLT ?
I'm not sure US has much else to do with its equipment, although I wonder if they have thought about scheduling their wide-bodies to South America or the Caribbean in the winter. DL has a more robust network so they can deploy an aircraft used on FCO-JFK in the summer on HNL-NRT in the winter, for example, or take the plane out of service to install flat beds and perform routine maintenance. Also, US does not have a joint venture with an Italian carrier as does DL; AZ will still be flying FCO-JFK in the winter. I believe the revenue between DL and AZ is split somewhat evenly on those flights, so DL should still get the benefit of the revenue without having the associated cost.
Meanwhile, I believe ATL-FCO is still operating in the winter, even if it is not operating every day, and JFK-MXP is still operating as well. There is likely not much to discuss here. The entire point is that DL needs to put in flat beds ASAP and wants to quit spending money ferrying people over the water for fares that don't make any money, so a Roman holiday in January isn't going to be as easy to come by. That's not glamorous, but it may mean a larger profit sharing check for Delta's workers next Valentine's Day.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33451 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 13457 times:
Quoting etops1 (Reply 23):
So why is it that US can make it work from PHL and even CLT ?
Plenty of possible reasons.
One reason is that US Airways has a pretty good cost structure, especially long-haul, that allows it to tolerate junk yield markets better than the others.
Another reason is that US Airways has no other better place to put the plane. DL, UA and AA are stronger internationally and can better re-locate equipment elsewhere, while US Airways simply does not have anything to fall back on.
A third reason is that UA, DL and AA all have anti-trust and profit sharing alliances, so they still participate in the Rome market via their partners. US does not have an ATI, so if it wants to be in Rome, it has to use its own metal, or ignore the market.
When AA, DL or UA decides to suspend Rome, that takes into account the capacity that it's partners have in Rome, where it will share on trans-Atlantic passenger revenue. US does not have the extraordinary benefit.
: Even though these are not comparable, EK has 2 flights a day to FCO and is thinking of a 380 to FCO, whereas you have DL/AA/UA all cutting back. Well,
: So VCE stays during the winter but they cannot make FCO work? How can VCE have more business traffic?
: VCE has no other direct flights. You guys can talk about the economy all you want BUT TA travel was always weak in the winter AND This is the result o
: When markets experience political (i.e. CAI) or economic issues (i.e. ATH), air travel is bound to be impacted. In the case of CAI, air travel has yet
: I wonder if another reason for the seasonial suspensions is that JFK really does not have as many connecting flights by DL or it's partners to other l
: So what about AZ's service to JFK? Does AZ have any service to ATL?
: Alitalia's website lists only the codeshares AZ7600 from FCO-ATL & AZ7618 from MXP-ATL, both were operated by DL. AZ608 & AZ610 fly FCO-JFK.
: What he meant was the market exists between JFK and MXP. Cutting ATL-MXP makes sense if it is not going to be profitable.
: I've been to Rome in July and I haven't found it miserable, unless you we're refering to the heat.
: I believe they share in the costs as well on JV flights. Unless you are referring to dedicating own metal as "costs".
: Because the economy in ATL is in the crapper
: I fully agree! When EWR-FCO got the axe, my thought was "SkyTeam kicked our butts". But clearly more is going on here.
: I think all of southern Europe is just in a big slump, end of story. United has a 757 on EWR-MAD even over the summer. This route has seen every wideb
: ....and let's not forget AZ now has a superior product on the JFK routes from FCO and MXP vs. DL. They have the new 3 class 332s on FCO & MXP with
: I know the JV allows them to cut flying routes on their own metal but, I am surprised about this. Not even 1 flight daily to FCO from JFK on DL metal.
: Turkey's economy is doing a lot better than Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland etc..
: I'd prefer UA to keep the EWR-FCO (764) running year around versus the IAD (763) route. UA runs EWR-MXP year round.
: Why? No competition in DC and they can just as easily connect passengers there.
: Actually, there were summers when I was based at JFK with DL that we had no mainline DL JFK-CDG, only AF.
: I think for about a year only AF flew the route. DL came back one summer with 1x daily 752, and it's since been upgauged back to a 763.
: I think all should read up on the Joint venture Delta has with its AF/KL/AZ partners. Expect more seasonal aircraft redeployments depending on the eco
: The JV is important, no doubt. But unfortunately, at gateways like JFK, AZ and AF leave from a different terminal than DL does. This makes for more di
: Whether the ATL market is strong is irrelevant because DL isn't trying to draw traffic to ATL. They're trying to draw traffic from MXP via their ATL
: There is plenty of room at Terminal A in Boston for intl departures but not for intl arrivals as Terminal A does not have customs
: AA and IB have 2 to 3 daily flights to JFK - a 757, and a mix of 343-346 - and they take the lion's share of the market, with most connections to the