Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Suspends New York JFK - Rome  
User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 635 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19804 times:

According the GDS display DL will suspend JFK-FCO on OCT 27. Seems as though DL is cutting back on alot of Trans Atlantic routes. Will the service return in 2013?

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19688 times:

They continue to codeshare and revenue share on Alitalia's flights so this isn't really a big deal.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineGEN2STEW From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19686 times:

My goodness, this will get the pot stirred... On one side you'll have the Delta dart board group and on the other you'll have the this is why AA is so conservative's...      


I don't know why blessings wear disguises. If I were a blessing, I'd run around nude!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19663 times:

I don't really think so. FCO is primarily a tourist and VFR destination, not a lot of premium traffic. AC runs it as a seasonal service out of YYZ.

MXP, though, that's where the business is.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19611 times:

I don't believe we flew this last winter. (3months)

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19532 times:

This is the same as this past winter. DL and AA both seasonally suspended JFK-FCO.

DL is going to continue doing on an ongoing basis. They will not tolerate flying a lot of unprofitable capacity across the Atlantic during the slow season like they did in winter 2010-2011.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19496 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3):
MXP, though, that's where the business is.

Which they're suspending out of ATL...


User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19235 times:

and UA suspended FCO out of EWR as well for the winter didn't they?

User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19145 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 4):
I don't believe we flew this last winter

Yes, DL-operated JFK-FCO was dropped this past winter as well, and recently returned (on 3/24). The AZ-operated JFK-FCO as part of the JV will continue to operate.

JFK-MXP will continue this winter, like last, with the 764, and JFK-VCE will operate at 4-5x weekly on the 763ER during the winter...same schedules as this past winter.

Basically, DL did decently with the winter drawdown in Transatlantic capacity this past winter, so they will essentially continue with the same schedules.

JFK-NCE will also be suspended from January 9 2013 and return in late March, etc.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18267 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3):
MXP, though, that's where the business is.

And yet they cut ATL-MXP. Curious....

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8766 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18132 times:

The Itailian business market is in the crapper. It is mainly tourism market, most profitably served as such.

User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18108 times:

Quoting miaami (Thread starter):
According the GDS display DL will suspend JFK-FCO on OCT 27

Nothing new, the same was during W11/12.

In addition ATH-JFK will be suspended as well.


User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 18035 times:

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 13):
In addition ATH-JFK will be suspended as well.

Wow. That means that for the first time in several decades, there will be no nonstop US-ATH service this winter.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17856 times:

UA suspended the EWR-FCO flight for the winter...and DL still can't make a JFK-FCO (4x or 5x weekly) work?

User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3473 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17702 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 15):
UA suspended the EWR-FCO flight for the winter...and DL still can't make a JFK-FCO (4x or 5x weekly) work?

Really intersting that both DL/UA have suspended NYC-FCO for the winter, huge decrease in capacity.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17473 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
The Itailian business market is in the crapper. It is mainly tourism market, most profitably served as such.

   Especially Rome. Although it's miserable in the summer.

Basically this is what happens when the economy sucks. Business travel hurts and tourist travel hurts worse since vacation is one of the first things to go when times are bad. I have to wonder how the Italians get in such a poor financial position seeing as they don't seem to spend much money maintaining things.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1445 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17124 times:

I hope it is clear to most level minded folks that vast parts of the global economy are still in dire straits...some parts still haven't even seen the worst of it, during this particular cycle.

I'm glad this carrier isn't just flying for the sake of flying. Let's study and re-evaluate each and every route. Less than daily is less desirable but it's not always a bad thing.

Most of "this" stems from the price of oil though.

The percentage of fuel as a part of total cost for airlines is just way out of whack these days.

[Edited 2012-04-27 10:59:38]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 16983 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 15):
UA suspended the EWR-FCO flight for the winter...and DL still can't make a JFK-FCO (4x or 5x weekly) work?

They can. It will just be on Alitialia equipment. They've got better things to do with the airplanes in winter, like maintenance and mods. And I'm not being sarcastic.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 15246 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 7):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3):
MXP, though, that's where the business is.

Which they're suspending out of ATL...
Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3):
MXP, though, that's where the business is.

And yet they cut ATL-MXP. Curious....

Yes, I saw that thread. Perhaps the ATL-MXP market isn't all that strong (is Atlanta a fashion centre, for example). But then again perhaps this reflects the generally terrible state of the Italian economy more than anything.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently onlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14499 times:

Seeing the other thread about ATL cutting Milan, How much Italian service is left for DL?


Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlinepnd100 From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14188 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 21):

Seeing the other thread about ATL cutting Milan, How much Italian service is left for DL?


According to their interactive route map on the website they have service to VCE & seasonal service to PSA after FCO / MXP are cut.

How is DL's intercontinental service? There are mixed reviews of DL online but most of these are domestic or short haul international. Was this a factor in their lack of success in Italy or is it purely Italian economic conditions?


User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13339 times:

So why is it that US can make it work from PHL and even CLT ?

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13150 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 23):
So why is it that US can make it work from PHL and even CLT ?

PHL-FCO is still a decent sized market and there is no competition.

CLT-FCO is seasonal.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1007 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13266 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 23):
So why is it that US can make it work from PHL and even CLT ?

I'm not sure US has much else to do with its equipment, although I wonder if they have thought about scheduling their wide-bodies to South America or the Caribbean in the winter. DL has a more robust network so they can deploy an aircraft used on FCO-JFK in the summer on HNL-NRT in the winter, for example, or take the plane out of service to install flat beds and perform routine maintenance. Also, US does not have a joint venture with an Italian carrier as does DL; AZ will still be flying FCO-JFK in the winter. I believe the revenue between DL and AZ is split somewhat evenly on those flights, so DL should still get the benefit of the revenue without having the associated cost.

Meanwhile, I believe ATL-FCO is still operating in the winter, even if it is not operating every day, and JFK-MXP is still operating as well. There is likely not much to discuss here. The entire point is that DL needs to put in flat beds ASAP and wants to quit spending money ferrying people over the water for fares that don't make any money, so a Roman holiday in January isn't going to be as easy to come by. That's not glamorous, but it may mean a larger profit sharing check for Delta's workers next Valentine's Day.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13287 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 23):

So why is it that US can make it work from PHL and even CLT ?

Plenty of possible reasons.

One reason is that US Airways has a pretty good cost structure, especially long-haul, that allows it to tolerate junk yield markets better than the others.

Another reason is that US Airways has no other better place to put the plane. DL, UA and AA are stronger internationally and can better re-locate equipment elsewhere, while US Airways simply does not have anything to fall back on.

A third reason is that UA, DL and AA all have anti-trust and profit sharing alliances, so they still participate in the Rome market via their partners. US does not have an ATI, so if it wants to be in Rome, it has to use its own metal, or ignore the market.

When AA, DL or UA decides to suspend Rome, that takes into account the capacity that it's partners have in Rome, where it will share on trans-Atlantic passenger revenue. US does not have the extraordinary benefit.



a.
25 hohd : Even though these are not comparable, EK has 2 flights a day to FCO and is thinking of a 380 to FCO, whereas you have DL/AA/UA all cutting back. Well,
26 jreuschl : So VCE stays during the winter but they cannot make FCO work? How can VCE have more business traffic?
27 jfklganyc : VCE has no other direct flights. You guys can talk about the economy all you want BUT TA travel was always weak in the winter AND This is the result o
28 EricR : When markets experience political (i.e. CAI) or economic issues (i.e. ATH), air travel is bound to be impacted. In the case of CAI, air travel has yet
29 ltbewr : I wonder if another reason for the seasonial suspensions is that JFK really does not have as many connecting flights by DL or it's partners to other l
30 PHX787 : So what about AZ's service to JFK? Does AZ have any service to ATL?
31 pnd100 : Alitalia's website lists only the codeshares AZ7600 from FCO-ATL & AZ7618 from MXP-ATL, both were operated by DL. AZ608 & AZ610 fly FCO-JFK.
32 DTWLAX : What he meant was the market exists between JFK and MXP. Cutting ATL-MXP makes sense if it is not going to be profitable.
33 juantrippe82 : I've been to Rome in July and I haven't found it miserable, unless you we're refering to the heat.
34 peanuts : I believe they share in the costs as well on JV flights. Unless you are referring to dedicating own metal as "costs".
35 Post contains images SASDC8 : Because the economy in ATL is in the crapper
36 tpaewr : I fully agree! When EWR-FCO got the axe, my thought was "SkyTeam kicked our butts". But clearly more is going on here.
37 klwright69 : I think all of southern Europe is just in a big slump, end of story. United has a 757 on EWR-MAD even over the summer. This route has seen every wideb
38 nycfly75 : ....and let's not forget AZ now has a superior product on the JFK routes from FCO and MXP vs. DL. They have the new 3 class 332s on FCO & MXP with
39 gokmengs : I know the JV allows them to cut flying routes on their own metal but, I am surprised about this. Not even 1 flight daily to FCO from JFK on DL metal.
40 STT757 : Turkey's economy is doing a lot better than Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland etc..
41 fxramper : I'd prefer UA to keep the EWR-FCO (764) running year around versus the IAD (763) route. UA runs EWR-MXP year round.
42 washingtonian : Why? No competition in DC and they can just as easily connect passengers there.
43 delta2ual : Actually, there were summers when I was based at JFK with DL that we had no mainline DL JFK-CDG, only AF.
44 HVNandrew : I think for about a year only AF flew the route. DL came back one summer with 1x daily 752, and it's since been upgauged back to a 763.
45 Post contains links Coronado : I think all should read up on the Joint venture Delta has with its AF/KL/AZ partners. Expect more seasonal aircraft redeployments depending on the eco
46 RobertS975 : The JV is important, no doubt. But unfortunately, at gateways like JFK, AZ and AF leave from a different terminal than DL does. This makes for more di
47 catiii : Whether the ATL market is strong is irrelevant because DL isn't trying to draw traffic to ATL. They're trying to draw traffic from MXP via their ATL
48 bobnwa : There is plenty of room at Terminal A in Boston for intl departures but not for intl arrivals as Terminal A does not have customs
49 Talaier : AA and IB have 2 to 3 daily flights to JFK - a 757, and a mix of 343-346 - and they take the lion's share of the market, with most connections to the
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
B6 To End RIC Service To New York's JFK posted Wed Sep 8 2010 05:39:20 by scflyboy
Arik Air Launches New York (JFK) On Nov 29 posted Wed Nov 11 2009 03:55:12 by AsoRock
Mouse Grounds Plane At New York's JFK posted Wed Oct 21 2009 15:36:17 by Tony Lu
Aerogal To New York JFK posted Fri Aug 14 2009 09:00:53 by Summa767
British Airways To Fly Cardiff - New York JFK? posted Mon Dec 4 2006 01:55:13 by 8herveg
Qantas' Sydney - New York JFK Flight...non-stop? posted Mon Oct 23 2006 02:03:03 by 8herveg
AV Pereira-Barranquilla-New York JFK MD-83 posted Mon Feb 20 2006 03:30:36 by Derekone
Newburgh (SWF) To New York (JFK) posted Tue Aug 23 2005 07:48:47 by AlitaliaMD11
New York JFK - Cork, Ireland. New Charter Series! posted Wed Apr 7 2004 17:40:08 by Sam the Lab
New York JFK International Will Be Ready For A380! posted Wed Mar 24 2004 02:31:52 by AvObserver
Aerogal To New York JFK posted Fri Aug 14 2009 09:00:53 by Summa767
British Airways To Fly Cardiff - New York JFK? posted Mon Dec 4 2006 01:55:13 by 8herveg
Qantas' Sydney - New York JFK Flight...non-stop? posted Mon Oct 23 2006 02:03:03 by 8herveg
AV Pereira-Barranquilla-New York JFK MD-83 posted Mon Feb 20 2006 03:30:36 by Derekone
Newburgh (SWF) To New York (JFK) posted Tue Aug 23 2005 07:48:47 by AlitaliaMD11
New York JFK - Cork, Ireland. New Charter Series! posted Wed Apr 7 2004 17:40:08 by Sam the Lab