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Airbus Exporting To The United States  
User currently offlineEwrkid From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11716 times:

Hello All!

I am currently working on an Export Plan for my class on Airbus exporting to the United States, I checked the Airbus website and it has little information. I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me what websites or articles to look at to find more information on Airbus exporting aircraft to the U.S.? I would really appreciate the help with this!


Ewrkid

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11718 times:

Quoting Ewrkid (Thread starter):
I am currently working on an Export Plan for my class on Airbus exporting to the United States, I checked the Airbus website and it has little information. I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me what websites or articles to look at to find more information on Airbus exporting aircraft to the U.S.? I would really appreciate the help with this!

What exactly do you mean, information on Airbus selling aircraft to US airlines?


User currently offlineEwrkid From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11696 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
What exactly do you mean, information on Airbus selling aircraft to US airlines?

Yes, sorry I was not descriptive in my post!


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3761 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11621 times:
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Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
What exactly do you mean, information on Airbus selling aircraft to US airlines?

You can definitely mention Eastern. Airbus started selling planes to US airlines already back in the 70s not long after the company was founded.

Eastern was the very first US airline to take delivery of an Airbus plane back in 1977.


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User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1082 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11556 times:
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I think Northwest Airlines was the first North American A320 customer of Airbus in 1989. They also ordered A330s and A340s in the 1990s, but the deliveries were cancelled. Northwest eventually bought A319s and A330s from Airbus.
Delta is now flying them.   


User currently offlineNutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 496 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days ago) and read 11497 times:

You can also add that US Airways, based in Tempe Arizona is the worlds largest operator of Airbus aircraft with a fleet of A319's, A320's, A321's, A330's and an order for A350's which is currently being developed by Airbus.


American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11269 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 4):
I think Northwest Airlines was the first North American A320 customer of Airbus in 1989.

Pan Am was the first North American carrier to order the A320, about a year before Northwest ordered the type. Pan Am of course never took delivery of any A320s due to their financial problems.


User currently offlineEwrkid From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11251 times:

Thank you for all of your feedback! but does anyone happen to have any information from a website or know anyone that is familiar with Airbus, The paper has to be 15 pages and I haven't even started yet  

User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3761 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10889 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Pan Am was the first North American carrier to order the A320

And first also to order and take delivery of the A310. For a while Pan Am was the only US airline to fly the A310. The other US operator of the A310 in passenger hauling was Delta, after Pan Am ceased operations in 1991. Delta ordered a few additional A310s on their own, in addition to the ex-Pan Am planes.



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19575 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10857 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):

Pan Am was the first North American carrier to order the A320, about a year before Northwest ordered the type. Pan Am of course never took delivery of any A320s due to their financial problems.

Fascinating! I did not know that!

For the OP, I suggest you go to your local library. Your username suggests that you're near EWR so if you're really interested, you might check out the main New York Public Library in Manhattan. There are a few books on the story of Airbus as a company. Quite a few, actually. It's an interesting business study in many ways. 40 years ago there was no Airbus. Today, it is a company of somewhat more than trivial global significance.  


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10522 times:

Assume you've already seen the history section in the Airbus website.
http://www.airbus.com/company/history/

It has a lot of information that might be relevant. For example, following excerpt from the Narrative link covering the first Airbus sale in North America:

Rolling the dice

But the big breakthrough was still to come. And here the courage and flair shown by the earlier A300 tour of America paid off again. Lathière persuaded Frank Borman of Eastern Airlines to take four A300s “on lease” for six months and then decide whether to buy. If he decided against buying, Airbus would simply take them back. It was a brave gamble, and one which was to succeed. After trying out the A300s and finding they were even more economical and efficient than he had expected, Borman ordered 23 A300B4s with nine options in March, 1978. It was the first contract Airbus had signed with a U.S. customer.


There are links to many other documents in the Press/Media section.
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3761 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10429 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
It's an interesting business study in many ways. 40 years ago there was no Airbus.

Yes, there was already, although it was only the beginning. The first A300 flew in late 1972 so it must have been already back in the late 60s that the company was founded in Toulouse with the aerospace industries mainly of France, Germany and the UK. Spain joined quickly after.
40 years ago, there was no Airbus plane in airline service yet but the company existed already.



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineduckbilled From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10198 times:

Search "Airbus export united states" on Google Scholar. I just did it and I got lots of hits. I not sure what level this paper is supposed to be at but this one looks interesting:

Airbus versus Boeing revisited: international competition in the aircraft market: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=10.1.1.159.5264&rep=rep1&type=pdf

I'd read it right now if I wasn't knee deep in a graduate essay on the mortgage meltdown and homeowners with negative equity. I have to submit something on Monday that shows "significant progress" or I will have to re-register for the credits at a cost of $4,000. I have 6 pages, probably need 20 and I am currently drinking a glass of wine. There always is tomorrow.

Google Scholar is awesome and unfortunately I only discovered a couple months ago. My university research website sucks.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7475 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5961 times:

If you go to a library look out for:

Bill Gunston, "Airbus. The Complete Story", 2nd edition, Haynes Publishing, Yeovil (UK), 2009

Alternatively:

Haynes North America Inc are at 861 Lawrence Drive, Newbury Park, CA 91320.

Haynes Publishing website is: www.haynes.co.uk

Link to their civil aviation web page:

http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/s...tegory_rn=41501&top_category=38077

Haynes e-mail address is: sales@haynes.co.uk

Of course the book approaches the siubject from an aircraft design and development perspective but there are many references to Amnerican airlines.


User currently offlineabnormal From UK - England, joined Aug 2007, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4524 times:

Quoting Ewrkid (Thread starter):
Hello All!
I am currently working on an Export Plan for my class on Airbus exporting to the United States, I checked the Airbus website and it has little information. I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me what websites or articles to look at to find more information on Airbus exporting aircraft to the U.S.? I would really appreciate the help with this!
Ewrkid
Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
What exactly do you mean, information on Airbus selling aircraft to US airlines?
Quoting Ewrkid (Reply 2):
Yes, sorry I was not descriptive in my post!
Quoting Ewrkid (Reply 7):
Thank you for all of your feedback! but does anyone happen to have any information from a website or know anyone that is familiar with Airbus, The paper has to be 15 pages and I haven't even started yet

EWRKID
You know why you haven't started yet? Because you don't even know what to ask. I suspect you don't even know how to write a paper.

Why don't you define your thesis statement first and then go browsing the internet. As it stands, you haven't even said on here what exactly it is that you want to know.
- Are you interested in a history of the operators that use Airbus aircraft?
- Is the paper to address the process of how Airbus certify an aircraft in the US?
- Are you concerned with French export financing that subsidize US purchases?
- Is it that you simply want to know how to fly an A320 across the Atlantic?
- Are you interested in how US operators find Airbus vs Boeing or how the operators of each type exclusively compare?

Perhaps you really don't even know what to ask - fair enough. Then please provide some context on what the teacher or professor/instructor is expecting from you in this assignment..


User currently offlineAustinAllison From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting abnormal (Reply 14):


And Austin Allison said, "thou shalt not be an asshole."


User currently onlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3619 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

Quoting abnormal (Reply 14):
Why don't you define your thesis statement first and then go browsing the internet. As it stands, you haven't even said on here what exactly it is that you want to know.

Exactly what I was thinking. When asked to define the question, he couldn't, or wouldn't.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4127 times:
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Quoting abnormal (Reply 14):
Perhaps you really don't even know what to ask - fair enough. Then please provide some context on what the teacher or professor/instructor is expecting from you in this assignment..
Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 15):
And Austin Allison said, "thou shalt not be an asshole."

As a full-time academic, I don't have a problem with either of these responses.  


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4092 times:
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Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 4):
I think Northwest Airlines was the first North American A320 customer of Airbus in 1989.

I know Braniff International was an early 320 user.

Anyone know what happened to those frames?


User currently offlineabnormal From UK - England, joined Aug 2007, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

Quoting AustinAllison (Reply 15):
And Austin Allison said, "thou shalt not be an asshole."

I now the type and yes I was thinking that of myself as I wrote the post. Guilty as charged - absolutely. Well done for calling me out on it.

Ordinarily I'm the epitome of diplomacy, or try to be, especially with young folks but once in a while I slip. A 15 page paper is no easy assignment and must have a significant impact on their overall mark yet this young person hasn't a clue it seems in how to approach the paper from the most basic level. Somebody needs to get them focused on their thesis instead of adding to the young persons unfocussed early efforts.

The education system seems to be in trouble these days. Is this kid intending to just copy stuff verbatim from a website?

I'm reminded of a paper I did in 2nd year Engineering. I had to had to determine and evaluate certain aerodynamic data of a manouver in a DC-8 or something like that. A self developed computer simulation was required to generate the data I needed and I simply couldn't get the program to work for the specified manouver ( a roll?) Eventually I gave up. The paper I submitted though explained the issues of the equations in the simulation and conjectured on what went wrong and what I expected the results should have been had the simulation worked. One kid did get it right but he gave the results to everybody else.

Needless to say they all got an F for plagiarism and I got an A.

Do kids today even think that way and are teachers really grading on the methods and approach the kids are using. Are teachers really giving us value for the money they are getting. I don't know for sure but I can tell you that today I will not hire any engineer educated in the region I work in simply because their knowledge of science and physics seems significantly less than equally qualified engineering graduates from external regions.

[Edited 2012-04-29 10:35:29]

User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 3297 times:

Quoting abnormal (Reply 19):
Somebody needs to get them focused on their thesis instead of adding to the young persons unfocussed early efforts.

Yeah - when I saw the first post, I thought that'd be something like a two-pages research report. Look up some thing, sum them up, and you're good.

But a 15 pages paper? As a student I've written just a couple of that length, and each was a major effort. A paper of that magnitude needs a solid research design, else it'll be pretty much unreadable. "Mention that airline XXX got a couple of A320s in the early nineties" isn't gonna cut it.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7475 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 18):
I know Braniff International was an early 320 user.

Unlikely.

I believe Braniff ceased operations on 12 May 1982. F-WWAI, the prototype 320 (CN 001) did not take to the air until almost five years later. Its first flight was on 22 February 1987.

The first delivery of a 320 (to AF) was made on 26 March 1988. NW was the first US airline to operate the 320. Their first aircraft was delivered on 6 June 1989.

Braniff could have operated the A300 or the A310. The 300 entered service with AF in May 1974. Its first American operator was EA. They took delivery of the first of 35 300s on 3 December 1977. The other US operators who bought the 300 / 310 from Airbus were AA, CO, DL, FE, PA and UP.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19575 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Abnormal might have worded his advice less harshly, but he's exactly right.

EWRKid, I suggest you read his post and just don't take it personally.

But first of all: is this a position paper? A research paper? What sort of paper?

Second: What topics do you want to cover? Airbus is a big company with a lot of history in its short time in existence. What do you want to talk about in particular?

Third: How are you going to organize the information? By time? By airline?

And THEN you can start with a rough outline, get sources of info lined up, and then firm up your outline.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 18):
I know Braniff International was an early 320 user.

Anyone know what happened to those frames?

Braniff II was an A320 operator, although I believe most of their frames never entered service. Many (all?) went to America West, there is a picture out there from when they were painting one into the new US Airways livery and the last Braniff II livery could be seen when they stripped off the American West paint.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 21):
Braniff could have operated the A300 or the A310

The original Braniff never operated any Airbuses.


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2923 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 21):
Unlikely.

Braniff II was the A320 customer.


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User currently offlineNutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 496 posts, RR: 8
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3002 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 21):
The other US operators who bought the 300 / 310 from Airbus were AA, CO, DL, FE, PA and UP.




If memory serves, didn't the bulk of the A310 fleet at DL come from the PA transaction with a few frames that were delivered after the acquisition that were standing orders with PA? Semantics I know but I think that this was the case for DL.



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User currently offlineEwrkid From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

Hello All,

Thank you for your feedback both harsh and helpful! The professor did not really give us a format, but I chose the topic of Aribus exporting fully manufactured aircraft from France to the United States. Here is a breakdown of what I have written(10 pages so far)

-The purpose the exporting aircraft to the United States
-A bit of information about Airbus the company, also including a detailed chart of each Aribus aircraft and their seating capacity
-I moved onto how Bernard Lathiere the ex CEO of Airbus leased some aircraft to Eastern for a test run and thats was Airbus's first entrance in to the United States Market
-I also talked about how we(Airbus) should increase our market share in the United States market and I included detailed table of American Airlines that operate Airbus and the size of their airbus fleet.
-I then talked about both operating in the French and United States market
-I then recommneded that we increase our marketing for the A320NEO and how we would market it to the Airlines
-I also talked about why the US market is so important for Airbus, included a table of showing all of the other regions and how they do not have as many Airbus A320 aircraft as the US
-I then compared the pros and cons between the 737-800NG and the A320NEO, including a side by side comparison on a table
-I then went on to describe our target consumers in the U.S. market which we should put more emphasis on which are: JetBlue, Virgin America, Spirit and Frontier.

Would anyone happen to know a brief breakdown of costs that it takes to make an Airbus A320NEO?

Thank you for your help,

Ewrkid


User currently offlineabnormal From UK - England, joined Aug 2007, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

So it sounds to me like you're putting together a marketing analysis of Airbus aircraft in the near term US market?

Obviously a google search on the term A320 NEO would yield a lot of stuff but a lot would be fluff. I 'd suggest focusing you're research on some of the technical and airline related business journals. Air Transport World and Aviation Business as well as Flight Global will give you some really good marketing analysis data. Some of the posters on here though can probably offer/suggest better references and marketing reports.

The customers you're focusing on though are already exclusive Airbus operators with relatively small and young fleets. By sheer numbers, I think the Asian, Indian and Middle East markets would dwarf the US in sales volume so I don't think you can overlook some of the older legacy fleets like United (post merger) and US Airways (post merger) in considering how important the US market is to Airbus. Those two carriers are huge and have some of the oldest msns flying and the costs of upgrading these old aircraft to operate in today's and tomorrow's airspace and operating environments isn't cheap. Right now you can't even reliably schedule some of the older ones to some destinations in bad weather due to the obsolescence of some of the older navaid facilities at those destinations. Given the out of the box nav capabilities of the NEO, the lower maintenance costs and the improved fuel efficiencies I'd bet a lot of legacy carriers would give the NEO a serious look in numbers that would equal the carriers you're already looking at.

[Edited 2012-04-29 19:52:24]

User currently offlineairmagnac From Germany, joined Apr 2012, 307 posts, RR: 44
Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

Quoting Ewrkid (Reply 26):
Would anyone happen to know a brief breakdown of costs that it takes to make an Airbus A320NEO?

You could actually write a full 15 pages on the costs & accounting of a major aircraft program.  
I don't think you'll find any reliable numbers about costs though, only a few people very high up in Airbus management will have any and the exact numbers are certainly secret.

Here at least are the 2012 list prices for Airbus aircraft :
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...bus-aircraft-list-prices-for-2012/
Yet as you probably know those prices are mainly a reference price, real sales prices will have discounts, options and whatever factored in. So you can't really get any useful info about costs from that, apart from a vague order of magnitude.

Quoting Ewrkid (Reply 26):
Bernard Lathiere the ex CEO of Airbus

I will seem very pedantic here, but he may more properly be called an "administrator", not a CEO.

I say this because I think it is important to point out that between its foundation around 1970, and until 1999, Airbus was actually just a loose association of several state-owned aerospace companies from different countries of a continent that -at the time - was hardly relevant on the world aeronautical stage.

I think such a situation would have been very frightening for the management of major airlines (mainly American at the time).
That would explain partially why Airbus had so many difficulties selling its baby until Borman and Eastern chose to give it a try. (IIRC there were no major sales for the first 6 years or so)

It may not be of direct relevance to your paper, but these beginnings did set the tone for the relations between Airbus and the US



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