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UA Want To Reduce Space At DEN  
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5432 posts, RR: 7
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12770 times:

http://business-news.thestreet.com/d...-seeking-reduce-leased-space-dia/1

This doesn't say how big a reduction of leased space they're talking about - it could be just the old CO gates in A if they are still under lease.

[Edited 2012-04-28 22:29:34]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13588 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12602 times:
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It's not necessarily indicative of any cutbacks, if that's what you're thinking; many carriers are working on ways to improve turn times and scheduling to increase their gate utilization, meaning they can potentially run the same schedule with fewer gates, meaning less real estate cost.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2977 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12547 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 1):
It's not necessarily indicative of any cutbacks, if that's what you're thinking; many carriers are working on ways to improve turn times and scheduling to increase their gate utilization, meaning they can potentially run the same schedule with fewer gates, meaning less real estate cost.

Smart move too. Some airlines seem to run very inefficient schedules which do not maximise the facilities that are leased. In a business like this, every dollar now counts.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19686 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12478 times:

I can see it biting them in the butt during a blizzard, though. With the three-hour rule in place, having some extra gates at DEN might help avoid a debacle.

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12416 times:

F9 had better jump on them whether the gates are in A or B. They should approach DEN and ask if they could assume the gate leases.


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1848 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12394 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 2):
Smart move too. Some airlines seem to run very inefficient schedules which do not maximise the facilities that are leased. In a business like this, every dollar now counts.

Often, though, airlines will sit on more gates than needed to prevent competitors from gaining share at that airport. Avoiding competition is sometimes worth that financial hit for the real estate.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2977 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12381 times:

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 5):
Often, though, airlines will sit on more gates than needed to prevent competitors from gaining share at that airport. Avoiding competition is sometimes worth that financial hit for the real estate.

True, but sometimes the costs are too high to sustain, which actually makes things uncompetitive against existing competition.

Theres always a point a decision needs to be made.


User currently offlineBlueF9A320 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11884 times:

UA should just walk away already. They're only half-heartedly committed to hubbing at DEN anyway. And now they can justify it as "merger rationalisation".


Audentes Fortuna Juvat...
User currently offlinefrmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1718 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11705 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
I can see it biting them in the butt during a blizzard, though. With the three-hour rule in place, having some extra gates at DEN might help avoid a debacle.

Actually I think the airport has the responsibility to facilitate using extra gates in that situation. Or use buses.



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2410 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11507 times:

Could also be superfluous counter space, offices, bag rooms, etc., not necessarily gates.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16865 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11418 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 9):
Could also be superfluous counter space, offices, bag rooms, etc., not necessarily gates

Exactly, I think people are kind of jumping the gun here a little.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinejoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11305 times:

In my opinion, UA has lots of extra ticket counter space they are not using they could remove. In addition, they have about 6-10 extra gates in concourse B they don't need. I was hoping to see an increase in DEN service with addition of all the new 737's. DEN lends itself well to larger airplanes. DEN is not a 50-seat high yield regional market. Yes 50-seats work to the smaller destinations from DEN but larger planes lower CASM. Skiers and vacationers to Colorado won't pay $1,000 for a plane ticket. But they aren't the bottom dwellers either that go to Florida on a $200 tickets. Skiing is expensive so it lends itself to a higher fare vacation market.

For example, I went over President's day and we all paid over $350 for our plane tickets from MSP and OMA. (there were 11 of us). At this yield, an airline won't make money with a 50-seater but with a 737, they will do just fine and then some!

If UA wants to make DEN work, they need to remove many of the RJ's to places with populations larger than a Million. This would require more mainline gates again but still might have 3-4 extra gates even after an uptick in mainline.

In addition, if UA was VERY serious about making DEN work, remove additional fees for bikes to DEN and advertise it! This would bring a huge influx of passengers in the summer! Bikes are very light and cargo holds are very rarely limited by space but instead limited by weight! My bike in a case weighs about 35 pounds. As a UA Gold, I fly Frontier when traveling with my bike because they don't charge a fee. UA would get this business, even if the ticket was $400 on UA OMA-DEN, I would still be loyal. This is a good yield! 42 cents per mile!

Right now, the cheapest fares from places like OMA/MCI to the west coast are all through IAH. This is very expensive for UA to accommodate! These passengers should be moved back to connect in DEN at the fares they currently charge though IAH. This it how it used to be before UA changed most mainline to RJ's on the OMA/MCI-DEN markets about a year ago. This would be a significant cost reduction in getting passengers from traditionally PMUA strong markets in middle america to the west cost. This is where the new UA management has failed miserably in my opinion. Tell me again how it is an advantage to connect the UA fliers going from middle america to the west coast in IAH vs DEN? Bad for the airline and bad for the passenger. Just makes zero sense!


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10545 times:

Quoting BlueF9A320 (Reply 7):

Oh God -- Not this again....

People DEN isn't going anywhere for United. You can't jump to the conclusion that UA want to give up gate space from a brief article like this one.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineirelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10311 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 2):
Smart move too. Some airlines seem to run very inefficient schedules which do not maximise the facilities that are leased. In a business like this, every dollar now counts.

Sorry I have to call you out on this. Now counts? Every dollar has counted for a while. I think we all forget that in the US airlines are a loss making business. When they make profits the margins are thin.

-IR


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9738 times:

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):
This is very expensive for UA to accommodate! These passengers should be moved back to connect in DEN at the fares they currently charge though IAH.

I fail to see the logic here? The O&D fares they charge for IAH are regoddamndiculous.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinejoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9425 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 14):
I fail to see the logic here? The O&D fares they charge for IAH are regoddamndiculous.

I guess I've never had a reason to go to Houston other than to connect. They compete with WN on many markets so they can't be that bad!??? I guess that depends on your definition of "regoddamndiculous" Delta was charging upwards of a grand on OMA-ATL...now in my mind this fits that category!! They have now reduced fares and hence demand is through the roof. Fares are now $350-$400 with advanced purchase...reasonable...or 20 to 25 cents per mile....nice yield still.

I looked up OMA-IAH a couple of random days in May and the fares are $350....also reasonable. I did look a couple of days in June and the fares are $498...that's too much. If I had to go to IAH, I would change my dates, wait or not fly.

I purchase based off of yield. 20 cents per mile for domestic, reasonable and I buy. UA can make a profit off of this fare, happy airline and happy customer. $498 = 31 cents per mile...that's just too much and feel like I'm being ripped off so would refuse to buy that. 31 cents per mile = mad customer and I don't fly.

BTW...Just bought a DSM-SNA roundtrip for less than $250...going through IAH. The fares through DEN were twice!! UA could have got me to SNA much cheaper through DEN, instead they send me through IAH, way out of the way!! Just doesn't make sense.


User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 885 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9316 times:

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):
I was hoping to see an increase in DEN service with addition of all the new 737's.

Despite the new 737-900ERs, the mainline fleet size is shrinking, not growing. According to the Q1 2012 report, the mainline fleet size was reduced by 12 aircraft (the UA regional fleet increased by 17). Expect more 737-500s and PMUA 757s to be retired.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2410 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9295 times:

Quoting joeljack (Reply 15):

BTW...Just bought a DSM-SNA roundtrip for less than $250...going through IAH. The fares through DEN were twice!! UA could have got me to SNA much cheaper through DEN, instead they send me through IAH, way out of the way!! Just doesn't make sense.

UA's new revenue management system was only introduced last month, over time it should, in theory, price more better routings more favorably.


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9122 times:

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):
If UA wants to make DEN work, they need to remove many of the RJ's to places with populations larger than a Million. This would require more mainline gates again but still might have 3-4 extra gates even after an uptick in mainline.
Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):
Right now, the cheapest fares from places like OMA/MCI to the west coast are all through IAH. This is very expensive for UA to accommodate! These passengers should be moved back to connect in DEN at the fares they currently charge though IAH. This it how it used to be before UA changed most mainline to RJ's on the OMA/MCI-DEN markets about a year ago. This would be a significant cost reduction in getting passengers from traditionally PMUA strong markets in middle america to the west cost. This is where the new UA management has failed miserably in my opinion. Tell me again how it is an advantage to connect the UA fliers going from middle america to the west coast in IAH vs DEN? Bad for the airline and bad for the passenger. Just makes zero sense!

I said this about a year ago and I'll say it again. The DEN hub under the new UA/CO will look nothing like the DEN hub was under UA.

The new UA/CO now has IAH & ORD to handle east-west connections. Furthermore, UA's market share in many mid-continent cities, such as MCI or OMA which historically used DEN as a connecting point, is now greatly overshadowed by WN. This loss of share in mid-continent cities as well as DEN itself means that mainline jets are too much capacity on many routes that used to be exclusively mainline.

The reason why connections via DEN to the west coast are more expensive than via IAH is because flights via DEN are increasingly intended for those whose final destinations are to smaller Rocky Mountain / Great Plains cities not directly served via IAH and/or ORD.

The only value DEN will serve under the new UA is to support flights to smaller Rocky Mountain / Great Plains cities where LCCs do not have the appropriate sized aircraft to fly into. DEN will become to UA what SLC is to DL.


User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8593 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
The new UA/CO now has IAH & ORD to handle east-west connections. Furthermore, UA's market share in many mid-continent cities, such as MCI or OMA which historically used DEN as a connecting point, is now greatly overshadowed by WN. This loss of share in mid-continent cities as well as DEN itself means that mainline jets are too much capacity on many routes that used to be exclusively mainline.

IAH is situated very poorly for connections. DEN is needed for pretty much anybody originating & connecting within the western United States, so unless UA wants to give up on big cities like LAX, PDX, SEA, they need DEN.

Not to mention that DEN is still one of the strongest O&D markets in the US.

Consider this (summer 2011):
UA mainline departures out of LAX: 115
UA total departures out of LAX: 235
UA mainline departures out of DEN: 164
UA total departures out of DEN: 454

There's been a slow drawdown of LAX with more routes moving to SFO, causing LAX to shrink even more in summer 2012. DEN is looking to be flat. LAX is even more competitive than DEN, and it's likely it's not hugely profitable considering the 3 terminals that UA operates out of there. Which is more likely to get pulled down?


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8072 times:

I am not writing this from denver right now. I was just in the airport yesterday and was thinking how much extra space united has. Concourse be is pretty large and I bet united could slim down quite a few gates and move flight times around to save a good amount of money. The check in space is massive also. It's not like ua has anything to protect in denver southwest and frontier have fully committed to denver and have ffs, gates, and space. It's simply by too late to protect denver those carriers might be more commuted to denver than united is they mine as well try to make denver as efficient and lean as possible for connections.

I personally think the three hub setup is totally unsustainable very long term. I'm guessing frontier will be the one to end it though very long term. Den certainly has a different role in the new ua system. Different is the key word but it still has a unique role but I could certainly see more continued seat number reductions as we've seen. Widebodies could be totally gone for ua at denver not that unlikely that except maybe a seasonal 767 to HNL. They are headed that direction.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7557 times:

Quoting joeljack (Reply 15):
hey compete with WN on many markets so they can't be that bad!??? I guess that depends on your definition of "regoddamndiculous" Delta was charging upwards of a grand on OMA-ATL...now in my mind this fits that category!! They have now reduced fares and hence demand is through the roof. Fares are now $350-$400 with advanced purchase...reasonable...or 20 to 25 cents per mile....nice yield still.

WN is not the cheapest either and even with WN over at HOU UA still commands insane fares. I was just quoted $500 r/t IAH-LAS for random dates in July...AUS-IAH-LAS is significantly lower. We won't even talk about UA international out of IAH...
As of last year IAH was the airport with the highest airfares in the country...10 years ago it wasn't even on any list.
http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2011...liers-how-does-your-hometown-rate/



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

DEN is a super strong o& d market no question. It easily strong enough for two hubs. The thing to consider is that it's a THREE hub airport. Also with MKE no longer at hub status its the lowest airfare hub in the country.

DEN role is more to connect the intermountain cities which command high fares and less LCC competition. Cities like sea, PDX, lax etc can be routed to almost anywhere thru iah, ord, sfo, PHX, ord lax actually. ASE for example is an actual gold mine for United on connecting fares much like jac and sun are gold mines for delta thru SLC.


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1734 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7133 times:
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Anyone else wondering if this request involves the Continental hangar?

User currently offlineNutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 496 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6352 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 23):
Anyone else wondering if this request involves the Continental hangar?



I was going to say it earlier but didn't..........I would not be surprised if this is in fact part of the discussion.



American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13588 posts, RR: 61
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6290 times:
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Quoting irelayer (Reply 13):
I think we all forget that in the US airlines are a loss making business. When they make profits the margins are thin.

Maybe you hadn't noticed, but that generalization doesn't hold much water anymore. In fact, both AS and DL have posted ROIC north of 10% each in the trailing 12 months.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineirelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6268 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 25):
Maybe you hadn't noticed, but that generalization doesn't hold much water anymore. In fact, both AS and DL have posted ROIC north of 10% each in the trailing 12 months.

You mean this:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...1-profit-on-fuel-hedges/54521104/1

?

Maybe Delta Airlines should convert itself to a financial company if that's the only way it can make money.

As for AS, WN, and the like, I never said there weren't exeptions. Generally though, airlines in the US make razor thin profits relative to other enterprises, and that's in the best of times.

-IR


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13588 posts, RR: 61
Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6073 times:
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Quoting irelayer (Reply 26):
Maybe Delta Airlines should convert itself to a financial company if that's the only way it can make money.

And using that argument, maybe Southwest Airlines should sell their aircraft since they've essentially been an oil-futures trading company for the past decade that just happens to fly planes on the side.

Quoting irelayer (Reply 26):
Generally though, airlines in the US make razor thin profits relative to other enterprises, and that's in the best of times.

In the past, yes. Again, carriers are changing their views though; RM departments are moving away from the tradition of flying money-losing routes and calling them "strategic", moving capacity out of markets that can't support themselves. While the airlines will never have profit margins like the 40-50% seen by the likes of the financial sector or pharmaceuticals, you cannot deny they're fixing their profit model considerably.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5967 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 27):
While the airlines will never have profit margins like the 40-50% seen by the likes of the financial sector or pharmaceuticals, you cannot deny they're fixing their profit model considerably.

You're correct to a large degree on the revenue side of the equation. However, many of the carriers are still enjoying post-BK costs that will not last.

Keep in mind, there have been brief periods where carriers have had similar margins to what DL/AS reported this past year. In the late 90's many of the carriers had margins that good for a few years.

Times have changed because of consolidation and tight capacity control, but costs will rise.


User currently offlinerdh3e From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1669 posts, RR: 3
Reply 29, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5902 times:

Quoting joeljack (Reply 11):
In addition, they have about 6-10 extra gates in concourse B they don't need.

They don't have any gates to give up. The summer schedule is JAMMED, there is no room for expansion on the 10am bank at DEN, every gate is working.


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

I doubt this means anything for the Concourse B gates. UA unloaded some leased back office and operational space at DEN during Ch. 11 and they may be looking to get rid of even more since mainline operations have shrunk considerably. Some check in space may go. The early check in stations that they had when DEN opened were interesting and took a lot of space but since the automated baggage system failed, they are long gone, replaced with a standard check in counter.

User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5327 times:

Quoting boilerla (Reply 19):
IAH is situated very poorly for connections. DEN is needed for pretty much anybody originating & connecting within the western United States, so unless UA wants to give up on big cities like LAX, PDX, SEA, they need DEN.

Not to mention that DEN is still one of the strongest O&D markets in the US.

Consider this (summer 2011):
UA mainline departures out of LAX: 115
UA total departures out of LAX: 235
UA mainline departures out of DEN: 164
UA total departures out of DEN: 454

There's been a slow drawdown of LAX with more routes moving to SFO, causing LAX to shrink even more in summer 2012. DEN is looking to be flat. LAX is even more competitive than DEN, and it's likely it's not hugely profitable considering the 3 terminals that UA operates out of there. Which is more likely to get pulled down?



Well I am not really comparing LAX to DEN, but I think DEN will see a larger net decrease in mainline flights than LAX(though on a percentage basis LAX may see a larger cut).

Keep in mind that I am not saying that DEN will close as a hub. It will just look more like DL's hub @ SLC (lots of RJs serving smaller Rocky Mountain / Great Plains cities).

The addition of IAH to the UA network means that DEN's role has essentially been reduced to connecting the west to the Great Plains. Anything east of the Great Plains would use ORD, IAH, EWR, IAD as connecting points.

The Great Plains region is not heavily populated and the market share leader in this area is WN (DL in the Upper Great Plains). Travelers in this area are more likely to use WN (or DL) to western destinations rather than UA. Therefore, UA mainline is no longer needed to serve this area like they once did.

Also, many of the south & southeast bound mainline flights (capacity) will be moved from DEN to IAH. In fact, this is the one area to pay special attention to. I think you will start to see UA discontinue routes or frequencies from DEN to the south/southeast in the near future.

DEN will still serve an important role. However, its role will be reduced to a regional hub supporting mostly smaller communities in the Rocky Mountain region.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2410 posts, RR: 6
Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5309 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 31):
However, its role will be reduced to a regional hub supporting mostly smaller communities in the Rocky Mountain region.

...which is probably the highest-yielding segment of the DEN hub.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5053 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 14):
I fail to see the logic here? The O&D fares they charge for IAH are regoddamndiculous.
Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
The new UA/CO now has IAH & ORD to handle east-west connections.

IAH is, conservatively, 3 hours out of the way for the vast majority of the population of this country.

NS


User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4997 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):

F9 had better jump on them whether the gates are in A or B. They should approach DEN and ask if they could assume the gate leases.

Forgive me, I'm not very familiar with F9's current situation in DEN. Are they hurting for gate space at DEN?


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5008 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):

Yet IAH was the largest hub for CO and remains a mega hub under UA. Not one single hub for any U.S. based airline is positioned in such a location as to connect the majority of the U.S. population. Hence the reason why airlines have multiple hubs.


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

I think WN could be interested in some gate space - somewhere to get Delta to move to so WN can take over the whole C Concourse.

Of course with fuel prices they way they are and the cluster*** the the FL merger is turning out to be, maybe they aren't interested in expanding more in DEN.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):
IAH is, conservatively, 3 hours out of the way for the vast majority of the population of this country.

Well, regardless of that fact UA is shifting capacity there from DEN primarily. I was referring to the other posters reasoning in his statement...you quoted me slightly out of context.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinerdh3e From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1669 posts, RR: 3
Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 32):
...which is probably the highest-yielding segment of the DEN hub.

Probably some of the highest yielding traffic in the nation to boot.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 35):
Yet IAH was the largest hub for CO and remains a mega hub under UA. Not one single hub for any U.S. based airline is positioned in such a location as to connect the majority of the U.S. population. Hence the reason why airlines have multiple hubs.

Yes it remains the largest, mainly for Latin/South America and Mexico connections. Also it was revealed recently in another thread that ORD is treading on IAH in terms of daily flights. IAH remained strong with CO because EWR and IAH were their only major hubs. Since the merger they can rely both on DEN and IAH for their own strengths. But for connecting to the mountain west or even the west coast from the midwest and east coast, IAH isn't optimal at all.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 40, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4722 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 39):
Also it was revealed recently in another thread that ORD is treading on IAH in terms of daily flights.

Yea, that thread though had stats that were from August 2011. Granted ORD and IAH will probably see-saw #1-#2 year to year, I would like to see current stats with the full complement of cross-fleeting going on. IAH has a lot of 757/Airbus/CR7 flights now as opposed to a year ago.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 39):
Since the merger they can rely both on DEN and IAH for their own strengths. But for connecting to the mountain west or even the west coast from the midwest and east coast, IAH isn't optimal at all.

Nobody is arguing that. The fact remains that DEN is being reduced in favor of IAH, even though mountain west yields are high, the overall yields at IAH are arguably higher. Most east-west capacity will be shifted via IAH and ORD now.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):
IAH is, conservatively, 3 hours out of the way for the vast majority of the population of this country.

Like drama much? On a route like NYC-LAX, IAH is 30-45 minutes' total flying time out of the way compared to a connection at ORD or DEN. And the hub at DEN isn't needed for that route, as the connection at ORD is just as efficient. For MIA-SFO, IAH offers a more direct routing than DEN. IAH is well-situated for connections to & from Texas and the states surrounding it, which contain 40 million inhabitants.

Quoting EricR (Reply 31):
The addition of IAH to the UA network means that DEN's role has essentially been reduced to connecting the west to the Great Plains. Anything east of the Great Plains would use ORD, IAH, EWR, IAD as connecting points.

   The number of markets in the enlarged UA network for which DEN is the only desirable connecting hub has been greatly reduced. Moreover, these are virtually all domestic routes, and UA has been shifting its focus away from the hyper-competitive domestic market.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 39):
for connecting to the mountain west or even the west coast from the midwest and east coast, IAH isn't optimal at all.

But the mountain west is extremely sparsely populated, and most connections from the west coast to the midwest and east coast can be funneled over ORD, IAD, & EWR. IAH is very well-situated for connections from the west coast to the southeast, and the southeast is one of the nation's more populous regions.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 29):
They don't have any gates to give up. The summer schedule is JAMMED, there is no room for expansion on the 10am bank at DEN, every gate is working.

And yet renting several gates which are only needed for a single bank during part of the year is probably a waste of money. If they can get the City to take the gates back and pay for the gates per-use, UA would likely save money. It's extremely unlikely that any competitor will want gates out at one end or the other of the B concourse.

Quoting ADent (Reply 36):
I think WN could be interested in some gate space - somewhere to get Delta to move to so WN can take over the whole C Concourse.

Delta has pretty prime real estate on the C Concourse, though, with all their gates clustered next to the train station. I think DL would want gates that were similarly situated on B.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 40):
Nobody is arguing that. The fact remains that DEN is being reduced in favor of IAH, even though mountain west yields are high, the overall yields at IAH are arguably higher. Most east-west capacity will be shifted via IAH and ORD now.

Every time I see one of the OAG threads, I don't see many adds at all to IAH -- if anything, cuts here and there. The only airports with major gains since the merger have been SFO and EWR.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 41):
But the mountain west is extremely sparsely populated, and most connections from the west coast to the midwest and east coast can be funneled over ORD, IAD, & EWR. IAH is very well-situated for connections from the west coast to the southeast, and the southeast is one of the nation's more populous regions.

Sparse populations doesn't matter. It's all about yields. Jackson Hole might be sparely populated but if they can fill an A320 up to capacity with high fares to Denver, it works.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4608 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 41):
IAH is well-situated for connections to & from Texas and the states surrounding it, which contain 40 million inhabitants.

And the fastest growing cities in the nation.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 42):
Every time I see one of the OAG threads, I don't see many adds at all to IAH -- if anything, cuts here and there. The only airports with major gains since the merger have been SFO and EWR.

Lol, that OAG thread is full of so many inaccuracies with regard to UA/CO. I appreciate the efforts placed to compile the list, but it is far far from accurate. It also omits gauge. IAH has had more additions in the past 2 years than what CO has done in the past 10. Lagos, Jackson Hole, Reno, Bakersfield, Aspen, Hobbs, Montreal, 767s to LIM & SFO, CR7s everywhere in lieu of ERJs, 757s to SAN/PHL/LGA/MCO/MSY/LAS/BOS/DCA/IAD/TPA/SEA/PDX/BWI/LAX, 319s and 320s backfilling for 735/73Gs with the 757s backfilling for the 738s and the few 739s going to ORD etc. The OAG thread doesn't tell you all of that. These changes also weren't completely reflective in the Aug 2011 numbers thread either.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1214 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4602 times:
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United has their OWN hangars at Den But I DOUBT it. We're doing Bit time work at Denver on the A320/A319's and likely to do even More on the 737's when all is said and done. Denver is a VERY senior Maint Group and their expertise is invaluable We Fo have a LOT of gates at Denver and possibly more than we actuallly need for Mainline. I have NO Idea what UAX uses or who Uses them

User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 45, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4572 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 43):
767s to LIM & SFO, CR7s everywhere in lieu of ERJs, 757s to SAN/PHL/LGA/MCO/MSY/LAS/BOS/DCA/IAD/TPA/SEA/PDX/BWI/LAX, 319s and 320s backfilling for 735/73Gs with the 757s backfilling for the 738s and the few 739s going to ORD etc.

I'm talking about frequency, not aircraft size from IAH.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinerdh3e From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1669 posts, RR: 3
Reply 46, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 41):
If they can get the City to take the gates back and pay for the gates per-use, UA would likely save money

They did that with 2 gates before. Now WN is trying to gain exclusivity on those gates from the city.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 47, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 42):
Jackson Hole might be sparely populated but if they can fill an A320 up to capacity with high fares to Denver, it works.

Sure, but they can probably fill A320's/738's/757's with high fares between ORD/IAH/SFO and JAC as well. The amount of high-fare intra-regional traffic to & from JAC isn't all that large, and it's shared with DL.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2410 posts, RR: 6
Reply 48, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 45):

I'm talking about frequency, not aircraft size from IAH.

Increasing gauge at a banked hub is probably the most efficient way to add capacity without having to implement a full-blown bank or grow off-peak flying.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 49, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4522 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 45):
I'm talking about frequency, not aircraft size from IAH.

You cannot have meat without the potatos sir  
Quoting ScottB (Reply 47):
Sure, but they can probably fill A320's/738's/757's with high fares between ORD/IAH/SFO and JAC as well.

Yep, the 757 is on IAH-JAC. Houston has a high yielding scuba and ski community.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 48):
Increasing gauge at a banked hub is probably the most efficient way to add capacity without having to implement a full-blown bank or grow off-peak flying.

Co sign.

Also as an aside I looked up some numbers for IAH from Houston Airport System Of note:
March 2012 vs. March 2011 Pax numbers Not including the regional flying.
United (pmUA) International ops increased 100% of course due to LIM
United (pmUA) domestic ops increased 237.3%
pmCO Asia/Africa increased 13% (obviously the addition of LOS has to do with this)
pmCO Canada increased 3.68%
pmCO Central/South America decreased 5.38% (of course some of that is the swap of the LIM 757 to UA 763)
pmCO Domestic decreased 11.57% (commensurate with the increase from pmUA flying)
pmCO Europe decreased 12.4% (CO is getting hammered by the ample trans-atlantic competition)
pmCO Mexico decreased by 25.17% (demand has fallen off for Mexico tourism, but VFR has not been affected quite as much)
SQ DME traffic increased by 11.78% and SIN fell off by 24.33% commensurate with the move from less than daily.
LH remained stable with a .1% increase.

[Edited 2012-05-01 08:36:03]

[Edited 2012-05-01 08:36:47]


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 50, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4486 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 49):
Co sign.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 48):
Increasing gauge at a banked hub is probably the most efficient way to add capacity without having to implement a full-blown bank or grow off-peak flying.

I thought the CO method was adding ERJ's at high frequencies for the benefit of business travelers?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 51, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 50):
I thought the CO method was adding ERJ's at high frequencies for the benefit of business travelers?

Why do that with ERJs when there is a new found pot of gold at DEN of CR7s/757s/and Airbus?  



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 52, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 51):

Except these days DEN is getting a lot more 738 and 739.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4436 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 52):
Except these days DEN is getting a lot more 738 and 739.

An exchange I suppose, but most of those are originating from IAH - right now at least. DEN also has alot of ERJs and IAH has a lot of CR7s.
a 738 vs. pm UA 752 is 155 ish vs. what 182? And the 739 from 752 is a loss of what 10 seats?
As an aside to an aside - Are the 737s there still utilizing the pmCO gates at the end of B?



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2410 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 50):

I thought the CO method was adding ERJ's at high frequencies for the benefit of business travelers?

I never said anything about CO...  


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5673 posts, RR: 24
Reply 55, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
Exactly, I think people are kind of jumping the gun here a little.

But this is a.net...we're famous for it!



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Anyone going to be at that meeting? I am sure the denver post will have someone there but they may only write an article if its something significant.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16865 posts, RR: 51
Reply 57, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Maybe it's just me but the Q400 seems perfect for DEN, if UA can find a new operator.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5432 posts, RR: 7
Reply 58, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3668 times:

So it all seems good, the space reduction is all behind the scenes, and maybe UA even grows a bit ...

http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...ited-airlines-reach-agreement-debt



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16865 posts, RR: 51
Reply 59, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 58):
So it all seems good, the space reduction is all behind the scenes, and maybe UA even grows a bit ...

Now can we put away the "UA cutting DEN" speculation.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 59):
Now can we put away the "UA cutting DEN" speculation.

I dont think anyone thought denver would be cut it would be a huge whole in the system and united would loose out on alot of high fare low LCC competition cities. Shrinking denver long term or even short term is still a very distinct possibilty. What united still could do is slim down on o&d and i still think that is likely if frontier survives and southwest continues its denver obsession. United only agreed to grow 4.5% TO RECEIVE THE MAXIMUM BENEFIT from where they are now which will still be much smaller than they were with all the recent reductions and its only thru 2016. United is under no legal obligation too and thats only to receive the maximum savings benefit. The airport clearly set it up this way to help united keep more denver flights as they knew chicago, San francisco, and houston are very attractive given denvers low fares. The article is not clear if the increase is the number of flights or seats because that would make a huge difference. United has been cutting the number of seats at DIA for quite some time since the southwest effect has happened so this is a good move by the airport to help everyone and keep denver super competative and low fare for us flyers.

"We weren't as concerned about them leaving us as a hub as we were concerned about losing out to Houston and Chicago," said Patrick Heck, DIA's chief financial officer. "We want to make Denver as attractive as possible," which means lowering the cost of doing business.

Clearly the Denver airport realizes the three hub situation and the pressure it is putting on the carriers. United has been decreasing the number of seats its offered from denver by downsizing. Denver use to have quite a few widebody flights for example on united now there are very few in the future scheduled at all. HNL even gets bumped down to a 757 after the summer. United doesnt seem interested in much widebody or intercontinental flying from Denver they seem to want to fly the same routes as frontier and southwest and keep fighting the turf war so lets see how it goes. Frontier is continuing to just limp along like a wounded animal which is good for united as they are not showing any signs of a total turnaround which an airline with no assets at all has to do eventually to survive long term.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 61, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 60):
dont think anyone thought denver would be cut it would be a huge whole in the system and united would loose out on alot of high fare low LCC competition cities.

Every week there is a new thread where someone brings up how UA is going to ditch DEN...

But that link is very good news.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 8
Reply 62, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 61):
Every week there is a new thread where someone brings up how UA is going to ditch DEN...

Yep, and I'm going to start another one...MWHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH  
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 61):
But that link is very good news.

But, seriously, it is good news. There will be optimization of aircraft to routes and that is what we are seeing. Even though there is a lot of capacity transfer between IAH and DEN going on right now I believe there will be a net increase in both airports especially with incoming 737 deliveries - plus there is a good amount of slack in the 737 fleet as it is.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2041 posts, RR: 3
Reply 63, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 14):
I fail to see the logic here? The O&D fares they charge for IAH are regoddamndiculous.
Quoting EricR (Reply 18):
The new UA/CO now has IAH & ORD to handle east-west connections.

IAH is, conservatively, 3 hours out of the way for the vast majority of the population of this country.

NS

People fly crazy and of out of the way routings if the price is right and they get the miles on their airline of choice.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5432 posts, RR: 7
Reply 64, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 59):
Now can we put away the "UA cutting DEN" speculation.

Mmmm ... no. It's good for the airport to operate a little scared. Overconfidence produces horrors like JFK, LGA, and EWR.

The "growth" possibility in the agreement is growth from UA's reduced level of operations, which means a few of the cuts might be restored over the next couple of years. Restoring more require profitable operations, which probably does not describe what is happening in DEN today.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 65, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 62):

GAH! Will you please bring up how UA is going to drop CLE or even LAX for a change?   How about IAD? It's been a while since we've rehashed that one

What we're seeing now is UA trying to optimize DEN with 737s. They have to compete with WN somehow. Although DEN still sees A LOT of 757 action.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

Southwest and Frontier are objecting the deal UA struck with DIA:

Southwest "noted that DIA is prohibited under Federal Aviation Administration rules from giving one tenant airline "a discriminatory or exclusive financial/marketing agreement like the one negotiated with United."

Read more: Southwest, Frontier object to United deal with Denver airport - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...-deal-denver-airport#ixzz1uVPXkmfN



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

Denver is so cut throat and competitive I am not shocked at all frontier and southwest would object to this. They may have legally found a way to pull it off I have no idea but it's clearly the airport helping united to not reduce service even more. The airport knows frontier is betting the farm on it and southwest seems just as motivated as ever so united is the one they want to spend to keep from major cuts and the one they know has the best options to reroute alot of people. It seems a little unfair imho denver is a three hub airport so they looked for ways to give ua more clearly

User currently offlineSkyCub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 68, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 27):
And using that argument, maybe Southwest Airlines should sell their aircraft since they've essentially been an oil-futures trading company for the past decade that just happens to fly planes on the side.

Really? Are we REALLY doing this again? I get so sick of hearing that. Southwest makes money and its because of the fuel hedges. Southwest loses money and it suddenly has nothing to do with their fuel hedges.

Are we really going there yet again?


User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 58):
http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...ited-airlines-reach-agreement-debt

Does anybody know how the 4.5% capacity increase in the article will be measured? Is it total seats, departures, etc.? I wonder if UA will replace some of the OO flights with some 73Gs.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13588 posts, RR: 61
Reply 70, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2146 times:
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Quoting SkyCub (Reply 68):
Really? Are we REALLY doing this again?

Yes. Yes, we are. Deal with it.

If you bothered to read why I brought that point up, you'd see it's perfectly relevant to the discussion.

Quoting SkyCub (Reply 68):
Southwest makes money and its because of the fuel hedges.

So you're saying they haven't posted quarterly profits that would have been losses without the benefit of their mark-to-market impact from fuel contracts? Really?

Quoting SkyCub (Reply 68):
Southwest loses money and it suddenly has nothing to do with their fuel hedges.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand where did I say that?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1966 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 42):
Every time I see one of the OAG threads, I don't see many adds at all to IAH

With four midwest hubs (CLE, ORD, IAH, DEN) UA is rather saturated. With the international push, it is main gateways, EWR and SFO that are going to gain the most. UA is holding down IAH; they need to maintain the lead at ORD; DEN is right sizing.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 65):
GAH! Will you please bring up how UA is going to drop CLE or even LAX for a change?

We cannot talk about CLE until the agreement ends in a couple of years. I expect that flights will slowly move away from CLE to ORD and IAD but that cannot start until then. LAX has grown slightly in reaction to AA and DL's expansion there.


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