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LH 340 At MAN  
User currently offlineWesternFlyer From Norway, joined Sep 2010, 23 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9285 times:

Does anybody know anything about an LH A340 that is reported seen at MAN today?

[Edited 2012-04-29 14:11:13]

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineA340600MAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9238 times:

Hi

LH420 Frankfurt - Boston D-AIGI Airbus A340-311 - (Medical Emergency)

Aircraft was to the west of Ireland before turning back for Manchester.

Aircraft arrived approx 2020 local time.

Aircraft departed approx 2140 local time.

Len

[Edited 2012-04-29 14:21:26]


Fav aircraft has to be A340-600
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8704 times:

Quoting WesternFlyer (Thread starter):
Does anybody know anything about an LH A340 that is reported seen at MAN today?

I was actually on board. This was indeed LH420 FRA->BOS on D-AIGI and we got diverted to MAN due to a medical emergency. A passenger (on my row, two seats away from me in fact) started feeling very ill as we were crossing into Ireland. The crew called for a Dr / medical personnel (and one volunteered) and moved the passenger towards the front of the plane (maybe there was an empty seat in C class? I couldn't see). Then about 30 mins after we left Ireland behind we did a u-turn and the captain announced that we were diverting to MAN (I wonder why MAN and not somewhere in Ireland which was closer). We also had to dump fuel on the way. After landing at MAN we taxied to a remote parking position where several emergency vehicles were waiting for us. After they got the ill passenger off the plane we got refuelled (this was the first time I heard F/As say "make sure your seat belt is NOT fastened during the refuelling procedure!!!") and finally we were on our way again. We arrived at Logan about 2.5 hours late, which in the end was not bad given that the diversion was about an hour each way and we stayed on the ground at MAN for another hour or so.

If anyone knows what happened to the ill passenger please share. My best wishes for a prompt recovery.

I'd also like to give a "tip of the hat" to the crew for dealing with a difficult situation in a very professional and efficient manner.

Tony

[Edited 2012-04-29 21:44:12]


Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1167 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8686 times:

Quoting SNATH (Reply 2):
I wonder why MAN and not somewhere in Ireland which was closer). We also had to dump fuel on the way

Probably because you had to dump fuel and set up the approach.


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8662 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 3):
Probably because you had to dump fuel and set up the approach.

I thought of that. However, if we had landed in Ireland we would have burned less fuel getting to Boston. I guess the reason should be that MAN was at the time better prepared to receive us (it was getting kinda late, we took off from MAN around 940pm local IIRC).

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9077 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8489 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting SNATH (Reply 2):
I wonder why MAN and not somewhere in Ireland which was closer

We have a list of airports where you get what kind of medical support. So if someone has a stroke on board it wouldn't make sense to fly him to let's say Goose Bay as there is nobody who could actually treat him properly, so the patient would be taken somewhere else. So why not fly directly somewhere where he get proper medical support.
We also have a hotline to medical support on the ground. We call them via SATCOM with the symptoms and information about the patient and a Doctor on the ground can give us the information we need where to divert to and what kind of medical support the patient can get there.
MAN is probably better than Shannon here. Depending on what the problem is with the patient.

I hope that helped.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinenclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6404 times:

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 5):

Yup this is certainly true! Certainly on both occasions I've responded as a Dr to onboard medical incidents, I've been able to talk directly to medical colleagues on the ground (who were able to give me additional diagnostic support and also discuss diversion options). In fact, the time our patient had a STEMI we were just beginning the Atlantic crossing and they suggested we u-turn and head all the way back to Glasgow as that was the nearest cardiac unit able to offer primary PCI at the time. Very useful resource!

On a different note, the cabin crew were absolutely useless - all crowded into the galley to stand and stare at what we were doing, and even the CSD couldn't give me a run-down (or even a printed list!) of what drugs/equipment was in the medical kit! She even wanted to check with the Captain every time I wanted to use anything out of it. A fairly bizarre experience.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6297 times:

Out of curiosity: How much money did this emergency cost the airline?

It's great to hear that LH dealt with it in an appropriate manner. After all, that's also part of the reason why you pay more for legacies, I guess.

I truly hope the person who "caused" the diversion is feeling better.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinegrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 456 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6200 times:

Quoting SNATH (Reply 2):
(I wonder why MAN and not somewhere in Ireland which was closer). We also had to dump fuel on the way.
Quoting SNATH (Reply 4):
However, if we had landed in Ireland we would have burned less fuel getting to Boston.

They would still have to dump fuel if they were to land in SNN, the aircraft might have been too heavy so fly it down and dump fuel at the same time. There is also a rule that 3 times your altitude equals the distance for you to start your decent so MAN might have been a better one to turn around to; I don't know the exact position the aircraft turned around.

I know SNN is a major airport for diversions for B747's and other widebody aircraft but do they have facilities for the A340? It might seem like a stupid question but a VS A340 got stuck in AMS a few years ago because of a diversion; AMS didn't have a tow bar for an A340 at the time.

Grimey


User currently offlineBluemoonUK From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5818 times:

Not far from Manchester airport are some of the best heart and stroke units in the world,makes sense if passenger is very poorly to get them there for best care,its not the first time a LH A346 has had a medical divert into Manchester.
Bluemoon


User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 7):
It's great to hear that LH dealt with it in an appropriate manner. After all, that's also part of the reason why you pay more for legacies, I guess.

Huh? Sorry, I don't understand the legacies part there. No European airline fits the bill of "legacies" as it's used to refer to airlines anyway, and do you really think that Jet 2, Condor, Ryanair would have handled this any differently? No - medical emergency that requires a divert somewhere will end in a divert somewhere no matter which airline you're on.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently onlineTrijetsonly From Germany, joined Jul 2009, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

Quoting SNATH (Reply 2):
and moved the passenger towards the front of the plane (maybe there was an empty seat in C class? I couldn't see).

As a matter of fact, they try to get the patient into the galley or exit area as soon as possible because of having more space to handle there and not to be disturbed by surrounding passengers. Just imagine there is a 250 pound person with a heart attack on an eco window seat. Try to get him out of there and to medicate him in the aisle...


User currently offlineRatypus From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5241 times:

Really dumb question, but in these situations presumably the airline picks up the bill?! What are the costs? A load of fuel, but also additional landing fees at MAN?

How often do these incidents occur? Are they a fairly big part of an airline's cost base?


User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9077 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4781 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting Ratypus (Reply 12):
Really dumb question

There are no dumb questions  
Quoting Ratypus (Reply 12):
but in these situations presumably the airline picks up the bill?!

Probably the airline and if lucky maybe the insurance of the patient. But I am not familar with the procedure here.

Quoting Ratypus (Reply 12):
A load of fuel, but also additional landing fees at MAN?

Fuel for sure, landing fees, handling fees, crew costs (extra hours) etc. Bill will be pretty high.

Quoting Ratypus (Reply 12):
How often do these incidents occur? Are they a fairly big part of an airline's cost base?

They do happen, but not too often. I am flying for 8 years now, did 2500+ flights and never had to divert due to medical emergency. Sometimes passenger feel sick, but most of the time nothing which require immediate medical assistance.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinepeterjohns From Germany, joined Jan 2009, 207 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 7):

In fact the Fuel Jettison is insured in itself and doesn´t cost LH.
The additional Crew time and the lapse in the A/C turnaround can be painful, but at the moment it´s OK.
I don´t know about the additional Landing fees..

Medical Emergancies are fairly regular, I see them about once a week at FRA Regional Control Centre.

With folks getting older and the seat capacity increasing ( A380, 744, 748) it will become even more frequent...


User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3903 times:

Quoting grimey (Reply 8):
I know SNN is a major airport for diversions for B747's and other widebody aircraft but do they have facilities for the A340? It might seem like a stupid question but a VS A340 got stuck in AMS a few years ago because of a diversion; AMS didn't have a tow bar for an A340 at the time.

The company I was working for handled diversions for VS. We had also towbarless tugs but not one suitable for a 346.
We wanted KLM to do the job but they refused. They had and still have towbarless tugs for their 744s but said couldn´t lift and push a 346 with it. (They are infamous for their flexibility at AMS) At the end VS had to fly in their own towbar.

AMS did have the facilities for 343 at that time as Kuwait Airways flew with 343s. TK still comes with 343s so know and then.



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 10):
and do you really think that Jet 2, Condor, Ryanair would have handled this any differently? No - medical emergency that requires a divert somewhere will end in a divert somewhere no matter which airline you're on.

I know through a friend who studies Medicine, having had a special course on medical emergencies onboard an aircraft, that "large" airlines, or whatever you'd like to call them, have far more advanced medical equipment on the aircraft than LCCs.
Obviously each and every aircraft flying around Europe has to have a minimum equipment of some sort, but my point was that on carriers such as LH, AF, BA, IB, LX etc you get more than the minimum requirements. Those add weight and require more skill from the crew, which in turn the pax has to pay for when purchasing a ticket.
That's the point I was trying to make.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineearlyNFF From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 6):

On a different note, the cabin crew were absolutely useless - all crowded into the galley to stand and stare at what we were doing, and even the CSD couldn't give me a run-down (or even a printed list!) of what drugs/equipment was in the medical kit! She even wanted to check with the Captain every time I wanted to use anything out of it. A fairly bizarre experience.

Just being curious, was this on a LH flight?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

Quoting Ratypus (Reply 12):
Really dumb question, but in these situations presumably the airline picks up the bill?

It's just a cost of doing business.

Quoting Ratypus (Reply 12):
What are the costs?
DL had a 763 diversion to Goose Bay in Canada a couple of months ago on a SVO-JFK flight due a couple of unruly Russian passengers who were arrested. They were ordered to reimburse DL something like $20,000 to cover the diversion cost. Of course when it's a medical diversion the airline pays the bill.

Quoting Ratypus (Reply 12):
How often do these incidents occur?

If you look at the Transport Canada daily occurrence reports website there are usually at least one or two medical diversions almost every day on routes that involve Canadian airspace, both international and domestic. So on a worldwide basis there must be dozens every day.

Here are a few excerpts involving Canada, all within the past 30 days:

AWE708, a US Airways Airbus A330-200 enroute from Philadelphia (KPHL) to Munich (EDDM) reported a medical emergency and requested to divert to Halifax (CYHZ). Clearance was issued to CYHZ with an ambulance dispatched to meet the aircraft. AWE708 landed at 0104Z.

CFG157 a Condor Flugdienst Boeing 767-300 enroute from Cancun (MMUN) to Frankfurt (EDDF) on NAT Z declared a medical emergency and diverted to Lajes Air Base, Azores ( LPLA) . The aircraft was in the vicinity of 46N 040W and there was no traffic. The aircraft exited the Gander Flight Information Region - approximately 15 minutes later.

AAL107, an American Airlines Boeing 777-200 enroute from London Heathrow (EGLL) to New York (KJFK) declared a medical emergency and requested direct to Gander (CYQX). AAL107 was cleared as requested and landed at 2132Z.

ACA875, an Air Canada Airbus A330-300 enroute from Frankfurt (EDDF) to Montreal (CYUL) declared a medical emergency and diverted to Halifax (CYHZ). A passenger had a heart issue. Medical assistance met ACA875 on arrival. ACA875 landed at 1637Z.

AAL48, an American Airlines Boeing 767-300 enroute from Dallas (KDFW) to Paris (LFPG) declared a medical emergency at 0325Z in the vicinity of CYMON intersection. AAL48 dumped fuel for approximately two minutes at Flight Level 240 and diverted to Stephenville (CYJT). The aircraft landed at 0405Z.

BAW114, a British Airways Boeing 747-400 enroute from New York (KJFK) to London Heathrow (EGLL) at HECKK declared a medical emergency and requested direct to St John's ( CYYT) . The flight was cleared as requested.

DLH445, a Lufthansa Airbus A340-300 enroute from Atlanta (KATL) to Frankfurt (EDDF) at time 0305Z declared a medical emergency and requested direct to St John's (CYYT). The flight carried out contingency procedures to descend from FL360 to FL300. Upon reaching FL300, the flight was cleared as requested to CYYT.

UAE203, an Emirates Boeing 777-300, enroute from Dubai (OMDB) to New York (KJFK) requested to divert to Gander (CYQX) due to a medical emergency. There was no conflicting traffic and UAE203 was cleared direct, landing Gander at 1039Z. No impact to operations.

AZA8423, an Alitalia Airbus A330-200 enroute from Milan (LIMC) to Cancun (MMUN) advised they had a medical emergency and were diverting to Halifax (CYHZ). All agencies were notified. AZA8423 landed routinely at 1646Z with no impact on operations.

ACA 111, Air Canada Airbus A320 enroute from Montreal (CYUL) to Vancouver (CYVR) reported a medical issue with a passenger and requested to divert to Winnipeg (CYWG). No further assistance was required. The aircraft landed at 1529z.

KAL 073, a Korean Airlines Boeing 777-200, was en route from Seoul, South Korea to Toronto when the crew reported a medical emergency on board due to an unconfirmed deceased passenger and elected to divert to Winnipeg, The aircraft landed without incident at 1345z (0845 local).

ACA 109, Air Canada Airbus A321 enroute from Toronto to Vancouver diverted to Calgary due to a medical emergency.

The American Eagle Airlines Inc. Embraer EMB-145LR (operating as EGF4004) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Toronto (CYYZ) to Chicago (KORD). While enroute, the flight crew reported a medical emergency on board. The flight crew requested to return to Toronto and were cleared as requested. The flight landed without further incident in Toronto.

Air Canada Embraer ERJ 190 flight ACA540, enroute from Seattle (KSEA) to Toronto (CYYZ) reported a medical emergency on board and elected to reroute to Vancouver (CYVR). Air Canada arranged medical support on the ground in Vancouver. ACA540 landed without incident at 1608Z. No impact to operations.


[Edited 2012-05-01 19:10:53]

User currently offlineBreninTW From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2019 times:

In answer to the "how often does it happen question"

In my experience not that often. I've been living in a foreign country for the past 16 years -- flying home at least once a year and flying to other countries fairly often (I've flown an actual 250,000 miles on one airline alone in the past 13 years).

Only twice have I experienced the "is there a doctor onboard" call -- both in 2010 -- and neither of them resulted in a diversion.



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
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