usflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13954 times:
I have to admit that is a pretty crappy article. It also fails to mention the advantages of the other aircraft. MD88/90's have fewer middle seats and larger windows. The 2-3-2 configuration of the 767 is preferred to A330's 2-4-2 by almost all flyers.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 1037 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13907 times:
Airlines are about making money, MD-90s do make more money than A319s and A320s when they are full...That is what happens during mergers planes get shifted around. I really cannot believe that the paper is insulting DL like this, MSP is the second busiest hub behind ATL (someone please correct if I am wrong)...
Seems to be opinion based.
I also love these comments.
Quote: They are horrid planes it is 2012 for petes sake, they should of upgraded them before putting them on overseas or flights over 2 hours. My last flight(s) had broken tables, vomit covered seats, no personal screens and broken audio connections for the overhead monitors. There was no wifi on the US flights They were filthy too.
Vomit covered seats, classy...
Quote: Yet another example of Delta giving Minneapolis the finger. Let's all bow down to Atlanta.
FSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13625 times:
I like how one guy is complaining that he can't open his laptop all the way when the passenger in front of him reclines. Most other airlines still don't have wi-fi fleetwide! First world problems...
The writer definitely has an agenda. It's ridiculous to mention the one daily international flight that lost AVOD (and will be getting it back soon) while not mentioning that the much longer MSP-NRT flight now DOES have AVOD (and lie-flat seats in BusinessElite).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
IrishAyes From Israel, joined Jan 2008, 2490 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13467 times:
This guy is really scraping here.
The MD-90's and MD-88's may not be the most glamorous planes, but you'd be surprised how many frequent fliers actually enjoy the 2 x 3 seating configuration. When the Mad Dogs become part of history in the States, I can assure you many people will miss them.
And for what it's worth, why all the Delta bashing? Was Northwest's product really all that superior? From what I can remember on my experiences with NW, the DC-9s were pretty cr*ptacular, and they did not provide free snacks nor IFE in Y, even on the A319s or A320s.
I recently few DTWGRU in DL Y on a 763 with overhead screens, and it really was not all that bad. The Delta product has improved significantly over the years, and they serve free beer and wine in Y.
It was worth reading this article just for the sake of poking holes in the logic. Next.
ghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13432 times:
Must have been a slow news day! The comments left by Minneapolis residents are appalling... very bandwagony. They seem to have all forgotten what an insurmountable *pleasure* it was to fly on NW's old 757s.. and.. the DC-9s.. which are now the very aircraft they are vehemently against.
Some quotes I like:
"'If we have the lower end of the planes ... it feels like you're a little bit more in the minor leagues,' said airport commissioner Rick King."
-Lower end planes? Sure they're older, but "lower end"?
-Minor leagues? My apologies that it's not economical to keep an A330 flying into MSP when a "lower end plane" can do the job better and cheaper.
"The MD-88s have been dubbed 'Mad Dogs' in some aviation circles -- not always affectionately."
"'Due to rear-mounted engines, the aircraft is noisiest towards the back and seats behind the rear exits should be avoided,' the website advised travelers."
-Curiously enough, that would also mean anything towards the front would be desirable.. it's not like sitting aft of the wing on a 73G or A320 is as comfortable as sitting on or before the wing.
"Airbuses, whose engines are mounted under the wings, were spared a similar critique."
-Apparently Boeing has tail-mounted aircraft offered and flown by Delta that the nether regions of A.net have yet to discover.
CompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1823 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13377 times:
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 10): And for what it's worth, why all the Delta bashing? Was Northwest's product really all that superior?
It has nothing to do with NW's product or affinity but rather bitterness toward the loss of the hometown, global airline. DL has gradually been moving hundreds of high-paying, high-ranking jobs from the Twin Cities to Atlanta. Obviously it makes sense to consolidate certain departments, and have certain departments in close proximity and no doubt a large number of Minnesotans will continue to remain employed by DL into the long-term future.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
n7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1997 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13300 times:
Agreed that the article is not the finest piece of aviation journalism. However, kind in mind, a reporter doesn't just come up with this idea - they get it from other people. And the more the reporter hears about it, they look into. Take note of the first quote - it's from the Chairman of the MAC! Wonder what gave the story wheels?
That said...if the article were about Delta's horrible website and the erosion of benefits to elite frequent fliers, then it would've have some major bite to it. I flew Northwest well over a million miles. I miss NWA a lot. NWA's website, technology and WorldPerks were easily superior to Delta's offerings - but Delta's in-flight service is superior.
And also remember that since the merger with Northwest, Delta has done nothing but ship out jobs from the Twin Cities to Atlanta. Broken promises? That's a personal opinion. The case can certainly be made for Delta backtracking on verbal assurances of the importance of the Twin Cities beyond the hub.
All of this is fuel for people to dislike Delta. Whether Northwest was the greatest or worst airline, it was home to the Twin Cities...for decades. Now that NWA is gone - so too is the civic pride that maybe made Northwest a better airline than it really was to the hometown folks. And Delta announcing every few months that more jobs are going to Georgia only hurts their image. Just today it was reported MLT Vacations (NWA's former subsidiary and now Delta owned) is looking at moving jobs from Edina to Atlanta...
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7397 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13261 times:
Reminds me of how they ran with the spin the union pushers put on the RR program some weeks back. Shot full of holes. So much so that DL's SVP of Minnesota operations had to personally answer all the cr*p that was written with another article only days later.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 11750 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13247 times:
Quoting n7371f (Reply 13): And also remember that since the merger with Northwest, Delta has done nothing but ship out jobs from the Twin Cities to Atlanta. Broken promises? That's a personal opinion. The case can certainly be made for Delta backtracking on verbal assurances of the importance of the Twin Cities beyond the hub.
IIRC, all DL promised was that FRONTLINE jobs would be protected, not admin, back office, etc. and that's the jobs that have left MSP.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7015 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13166 times:
Yawn. Sensationalist and lazy writing aside, this has been true for every big merger in history. The acquiring company in merger always favors its own places, people, and procedures. This has been true since there were big companies to merge. Anyone in the MSP metro area who expected something different was ignoring history.
Actually that was not too bad for the Star Tribune. I was pleasantly surprised at the research done for it. For the most part, what they're saying is true. MSP travelers pay some of the highest airfares in the nation. And since the NW acquisition, MSP has generally seen less service on inferior airplanes in comparison to other DL hubs. MSP travelers have a legitimate case to be disappointed. They'd like to see a little reward for their expensive airfare.
syncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2077 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 12945 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 15): IIRC, all DL promised was that FRONTLINE jobs would be protected, not admin, back office, etc. and that's the jobs that have left MSP.
And that's all that needs to be said right there. I was a fan of Northwest as well, but Delta's in-flight product (especially domestically) is superior to Northwest's in nearly every way possible. I prefer DTW anyways.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 12579 times:
articles like this really tick me off! DL is doing a good job with MSP, even investing in the terminals for remodeling and new concessions...bet that wasnt mentioned in the article. The ignorance of the comments from the readers is just the icing on the cake...bitch bitch bitch...about nothing. MSP is still an important hub, these same people bitched about NWA. They would bitch if their ice cream was cold! Its so annoying.
jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4362 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12348 times:
I think you guys are taking it a bit personally.
The article is about a noticeable switch in the type of aircraft that the hub airline uses in that city.
The article quotes users (in this case pax) to describe how they feel about the switch.
Nothing on there that the pax are noting is false:
The MD80 is not the most loved plane out there in surveys
The seats near the rear mounted engines stink
The Airbus has a bit more "room" around the seat.
The MDs are more noisy for the neighbors.
I actually applaud the newspaper for even noticing the shift in planes. This is what local news does...it covers a story on how it effects local people. And in that, they seem to be pointing out accurate facts
And by including the explanation from DL about why the switch took place, they are negating the earlier flufb about being "lesser"
NWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12257 times:
The MD90 is cheap and efficient and that is why they are getting more of them, bottom line. However from a passenger and crew perspective, it stinks. The overheads are ridiculously small, and the one galley in F makes it very difficult for the FA's. You would think DL would at least put in new larger bins and do something about the single cramped galley.
Some of the MD88's have gotten new seats in F with power ports and they are actually quite nice. I hope that continues.
drerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5385 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12204 times:
Yeah, its a slow news day. I personally prefer the MD90 to the 319/320...but honestly what are they complaining about? I've flown NW via MSP/MEM/DTW and we all know that the inflight product was a couple of steps up from Greyhound. I had more service on Megabus. NW didn't offer anything...so I miss the point of the article except that somebody needed to justify their 2-week pay.
CompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1823 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12197 times:
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 17): I was pleasantly surprised at the research done for it. For the most part, what they're saying is true. MSP travelers pay some of the highest airfares in the nation. And since the NW acquisition, MSP has generally seen less service on inferior airplanes in comparison to other DL hubs.
I don't follow your logic. CVG travelers pay even higher fares than their MSP counterparts, and look what their "reward" was.
And what inferior aircraft have taken over MSP? Do you really miss the DC-9, their 30" seat pitch and horrendously uncomfortable slimline seats? Sure, the MD-90s have replaced about half the 319/320 flying, but are they really less comfortable than the Airbus? With video and a three-two seating, many will find them to be more comfortable. And there's plenty of 738 and 757 equipped with AVOD regularly serving MSP. Internationally, there's a single 763 serving MSP. Given that CDG wouldn't like be around if not for the merger, it's a mute point. And most business travelers will agree the BE cabins on the 764 and 777 are significantly better than WBC.
The DL-NW merger was going to happen with or without Minnesota's blessing.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
: Sadly yes, the 90s have the smallest bins in the mainline flight. The issue at hand is that there's no certified bin extension mods out there for the
: Regular visitors to this forum know that I'm not one of the DL fanboys, but I found this article totally uncalled for. I'm very happy to see DL replac
: And NW's DC-9's weren't? They conveniently forgot about those, I guess.
: Maybe MSP is envious of STL, which is not significantly smaller than the MSP metro area. STL is obviously still a well served hub airport MD90's as be
: You apparently mean internationally. There are two daily 763s on SEA-MSP last time I looked. I agree this is a poorly written article by someone just
: "For long distances, the differences between the Airbus 330s and Boeing 767s can be subtle but significant. "For the average person, they're not as co
: when i fly on DL, i hope and pray that i get a DL mainline jet, not a hand me down from NW. NW did a horrible job in its final years of keeping their
: That sound you're hearing is the hysterical laughter of Memphians who think these complaints from MSP flyers are just so adorable. "The horror! Being
: What is irritating to Minnesotans is that Delta has taken most of the jobs that Northwest had at MSP and moved them to Atlanta. There is really no air
: At the expense of the extremely popular McDonalds locations. I for one was highly against the G remodeling. But that's beside the point of about airp
: The DC-9 average 30" seat pitch in the back and 34" up front. That's the least amount of leg room of any mainline aircraft offered by any legacy airl
: I liked this one from "thebigal010": The MDs are dangerous planes that have problems in the tail with the chute. I'll fly another airline if Delta can
: Yeah, but if there's only one horse... Really? The "comfort" on the interior is more a function of the seat than the aircraft. And given that the Air
: Mergers and acquisitions happen daily. Nor has DL moved most of its MN-based employment to GA. Most of its high-level jobs, yes, but certainly not th
: Actually, there ARE bin extensions for the MD-90, and Delta has already installed them. On the outside they look just like the MD-88 bin extensions,
: DL at MSP has been an upgrade! Sure, the AIrbuses have been replaced. But remember even during the airline boom of the 90s NW went and stripped the fl
: MD-90s no longer have IFE. There was a proposal to install AVOD on them, but that has been put on hold due to high fuel prices.
: When did the project happen It's not a DL original so that would make sense because the SAS frames have thelarger bins.[Edited 2012-05-02 14:23:36]
: Those are great links. Just by changing the last number one can cycle through DL's largest airports. 100=ATL 101=DTW 102=MSP 103=JFK 104=SLC 105=MEM
: DL's bin extensions are a Heath Tecna product, who also made the MD-88 and 757 bin extensions.
: I too enjoy the MD's over the Airbus 319/320 DL fleets. For once I agree with you. I never understood why they did that. Sit forward, ti's good!
: While not related to the service changes at MSP, DL have actually placed (arguably) a lot of their flagship aircraft, the Boeing 777 in Detroit. I'm a
: It is because the IFE equipment was located in the rear galley, which was removed. Plus, many of these second-hand MD-90s didn't include an IFE syste
: Now I know! Thanks!! RR Click for you.
: "Please, Delta Air Lines. Give us back our Airbus A319 and A320 flights." King, who is a frequent flier, said the Airbuses are "infinitely more comfor
: Poor MSP travelers. The ATL and DTW folks are treated so well in comparison, aren't they? In fact, let's take a look at how well ATL and DTW paxs are
: The whole story is just laughable....be happy you still have a major hub MSPians...you could be in STL, PIT, CVG etc. Those cities would probably give
: Quoting OOer (Reply 9), "Not only do passengers hate flying on the MD88-90 but the crews also hate working on them." Where did you come up with that s
: Excellent work, jetlanta. Two thumbs way up. I highly suggest sending the graphic to the author who wrote this. And if you're from MEM or CVG, you ou
: Apparently the reporter is upset that MSP is inconvenienced by getting non-stop service to CDG.
: This article looks like it is taking a marginal issue so they can complain about DL. I prefer the Airbus because the seats are wider and the seat pitc
: Better check that again. Two full time nose to tail lines of MD88 C checks plus a regular gear change line. The composite shop that NWA closed has be
: I am on the DL767 to AMS this Saturday with a 9:30pm departure. I have done MSP-AMS about 6 times always on the A333. I assumed since the 767 had EC t
: I've always thought MSP is an odd location for an airline hub, so maybe the changes may be appropriate. And wasn't NW's in-flight experience always co
: Domestically maybe, although I found them tolerable. Internationally, NW was excellent in my experience. That was a different story. Some people just
: Hmmm...IDK where you're getting that from. A lot of work done on all the nightly RONs on top of the engine and skin work. DL also got the station cer
: I remember flying the MD-90 back when it had 30" pitch. You could tell. In all my DC-9 flights I've never felt the same way. They're listed as 30-31"
: how so? its pretty much smack dab in the middle of the country
: In MSP-CDG's inaugural year, the route was suspended prematurely. Given NW's struggles with DTW-CDG (outside the peak summer months, a very small win
: Am I the only one who every now and then likes to fly in the back of the MD88/MD90 because I kind of like the sound and feel of the engines going? JAN
: Seems a bit too far north to be considered in the middle of the country (at least as far as the lower 48 are concerned). And the metropolitan-area po
: Merger/acquisitions in any industry are never easy and always have an impact on people and the community. These changes had to occur in order for DL
: You need to brush up your geography . For east-west connections, MSP is a shorter routing for most city pairs than DFW and IAH. And MSP has strong lo
: I'm surprised the article did not mention the fake cheese in the Sky Clubs!
: The way this article reads, hometown airline, Singapore Airlines, was taken over by Spirit Airlines.
: What was particularly irritating to me about this story is that the Strib put it on the front page of the newspaper, albiet (thankfully) below the fol
: But DL has refurbished the interiors on all NW planes. So what are you complaining about? Doesn't AF also fly the route? I thought AF replaced NW on
: I suggest you look at how the Twin Cities metro area compares to the other large metro areas in the United States before you say it's "not particular
: There's no way to know that. All you can do is look at the average 738 and 757 departures. 75Xs and 73Hs are very much a toss of the coin and depends
: Yep that is pretty darn cool. Back to the whole "what is the flagship" for DL. I can't determine if it is a 777, 747 or CRJ-200.
: To me I think after reading that article there are a few things come to mind. 1.Not every MD-90 or MD-88 has been fixed up with upgraded stuff. So of
: Pilots may like them. Ramp crews hate them, from what I've heard. Airbus are definitely the most ramp-crew-friendly of the domestic narrowbody fleet.
: The numbers are right there in my post. MSP has 52 daily MD flights, accounting for 12.3% of its capacity. So sorry, so sad. I'm sure a lot of folks
: What an unprofessional article. The whole thing screams of sour grapes and ignorance. It's pretty clear.. MSP once the HQ is now the 3rd rate hub. I u
: Err..I guess that's a matter of perspective. I've worked both and the 88s/90s are still easier for various reasons. The MDs are very simple as far as
: The MD no matter if it is a 83/87/88/90 are good and bad....Weight and balance for one is easy...I must admit DL 90s have better bins than G4 83s...M
: Agree on most points. Can't speak about lavs; never had to do it in ATL or MCO. More broken zippers at the "lip" that any a/c i've ever worked. Usual
: After reading the comments, it is obvious that most posters have no idea the difference between a DC9 and an MD90. They think they are the same plane
: Thank you!! Good grief people just love to add fuel to the fire