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Why Was Paris CDG Built?  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 529 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13954 times:

In 1974 Paris France Charles De Gualle Airport opened serving most International flights while Orly was to serve mostly intra european flights. Before CDG Orly was the main airport for Paris and then there was LeBourget. Was Orly not big enough to handle all the airline traffic and ran out of room for expansion? Lets remember that Pan Am's first jet flight in 1958 was from JFK(IDL at the time) to Paris LeBourget(I also heard it was Orly).

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 13092 times:

Let's see...

ORY and CDG had a combined traffic of around 88 million passengers in 2011. CDG has four parallel runways, ORY has three, intersecting and non-parallel. Do you really think ORY would be able to handle the traffic or should Paris be stuck in a LHR kinda situation?

That's called planning ahead.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11089 times:

CDG was built about the same time as DFW and ATL was upgraded.

The four runway - terminals in the center design was concieved in the mid-60s are the ultimate efficient airport layout. The decisions and design for CDG date from 1966.

Paris was just lucky enough to be able to find the land and money to build one. I guarantee you the folks at LHR wish they would have done so back them.

[Edited 2012-05-06 07:52:02]

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7991 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10524 times:

When CDG was planned, they decided to build it northeast of Paris in what was then essentially farmland. They had two reasons for doing this:

1. It made it possible for a BIG airport with lots of runways and plentiful space for future expansion.

2. Being out in a rural area, there were less issues with noise abatement--important given that the Concorde was going to operate out of that airport.

I think the British government is kicking itself for NOT converting one of the former RAF air bases outside London back in the late 1950's into something like CDG, complete with an express rail route back to a major rail station like King's Cross.


User currently offlinedangould2000 From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9270 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 3):
I think the British government is kicking itself for NOT converting one of the former RAF air bases outside London back in the late 1950's into something like CDG, complete with an express rail route back to a major rail station like King's Cross.

Ah but it did, a la' STN and we're still in need of more runway capacity.



Next Flights:- wherever the airline sends me
User currently offlinemusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 861 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6497 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Before CDG Orly was the main airport for Paris and then there was LeBourget.

Wasn't Le Bourget first, then Orly?

Trivia - I seem to recall reading that the first commercial arrival at CDG was a BCAL 1-11. Would the French really have allowed that?!

Regards - musang


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5891 times:
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Quoting musang (Reply 5):

Trivia - I seem to recall reading that the first commercial arrival at CDG was a BCAL 1-11.

No; The first aircarft to land on a commercial flight was a TWA 741 from JFK ;
The first PAR- LON or CDG-LHR was by an AF A300 on May 23rd 1974

Quoting musang (Reply 5):
Wasn't Le Bourget first, then Orly?

Yes, Le Bourget started in 1919... until Air France left it for Orly in 1952, but UTA and others stayed there until the late seventies to move to CDG.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 3):

I think the British government is kicking itself for NOT converting one of the former RAF air bases outside London back in the late 1950's into something like CDG,

Yes, but don't forget that France has some regulatory concepts that are alien to the UK : here the concept of "Utilité Publique" or 'Public Usefulness " which allows the administration to buy at the going price any land it needs for a construction project... and the owner has no other solution than to accept, once the decree is out. (The same rules apply to the TGV tracks, compared to the state of the line in the South of London ).



Contrail designer
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 5577 times:

Quoting dangould2000 (Reply 4):

But then what they should have done was turn STN into London's major international hub like Paris did with CDG. Build more runways as necessary, get a rail line out there, shift capacity to STN and voila! You have the British equivilent of CDG


User currently offlineG-CIVP From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1314 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 7):

But then what they should have done was turn STN into London's major international hub like Paris did with CDG

It's called NIMBYISM and it stops any major infrastructure project in the UK. Second, STN, psychologically in the UK seems to be in the back of beyond, abit like Narita to Tokyo for want of a better example.


User currently offlineSunfly From UK - Wales, joined Apr 2012, 10 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4603 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 6):

Yes, but don't forget that France has some regulatory concepts that are alien to the UK : here the concept of "Utilité Publique" or 'Public Usefulness " which allows the administration to buy at the going price any land it needs for a construction project... and the owner has no other solution than to accept, once the decree is out. (The same rules apply to the TGV tracks, compared to the state of the line in the South of London ).

Compulsory Purchase Orders are very common in the UK for major projects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_purchase_order


User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4392 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4518 times:
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Thanks, Sunfly. I didn't know that existed in the UK, but apparently quite a lot more difficult to apply than in France.


Contrail designer
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24891 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Pan Am's first jet flight in 1958 was from JFK (IDL at the time) to Paris LeBourget

ORY hadn't approved 707 operations when Pan Am began service so they had to use LBG for a while. Don't think that lasted very long.


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

It was once called "planning ahead", which was apparently a common habit of the 1960's-70's, but has been extinct in the western world since the past two decades or so.

User currently offlineSuperCaravelle From Netherlands, joined Jan 2012, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 12):
It was once called "planning ahead", which was apparently a common habit of the 1960's-70's, but has been extinct in the western world since the past two decades or so.

Unfortunately yes. Recently the Netherlands began widening some roads again. Roads from the '60s and '70s were easy, bridges, tunnels and interchanges were all designed with spare space for future upgrades. Roads from the '80s onwards are ridiculously expensive to upgrade (not to mention from 1990-2007 we didn't widen a single road). No wonder the EU economy is coming to a stand still... I think it's more fundamental than just blaming some banks.


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