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Alaska Airlines OPS To Hawaii  
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8936 times:

Hey guys

1. How many total flights and frequency does AS have to Hawaii
2. How are the routes performing

Thanks guys

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8744 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Thread starter):
1. How many total flights and frequency does AS have to Hawaii

This route map plus the flight schedules link at alaskaair.com is an excellent place to start.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8623 times:

Here are the current Alaska flights from each airport in Hawaii from which AS operates.

HNL-ANC 1x 738
HNL-BLI 1x 738
HNL-OAK 1x 738
HNL-PDX 1x 738
HNL-SAN 1x 738
HNL-SJC 1x 738
HNL-SEA 2x 738

OGG-OAK 1x 738
OGG-PDX 1x (Mo,We,Th), 2x ( Su,Tu,Fr,Sa) 738
OGG-SMF 1x 738
OGG-SAN 1x 738
OGG-SJC 1x 738
OGG-SEA 2x + 1 one-way (Sa, Su) 738
SEA-OGG above capacity + 1 one-way (Su, Tu, Th, Fr, Sa)

LIH-OAK 1x 738
LIH-SJC 1x 738
LIH-SEA 1x 738

KOA-OAK 1x 738
KOA-SJC 1x 738
KOA-SEA 1x 738


User currently offlinesflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8543 times:

Why no KOA or LIH PDX flights? Especially since AS conciders PDX as a hub!

User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8321 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 2):

Thank you for taking the time to do that


User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8273 times:

There is KOA-PDX service. I don't think it's weekly. Rumours of LIH-PDX, but not a route yet.


They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8160 times:

New frequencies coming in June:

SAN-OGG 1x daily (2x Su, M, W, F)
SMF-OGG 1x daily (2x Tu, Th, Sa)

I think you'll see PDX-LIH later this year.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7879 times:

This is an oft discussed topic given AS's recent successful Hawaii expansion.

The obvious questions are, what's next?

PDX-LIH (probably a given)
SAN-KOA
SMF-KOA
BLI-OGG

Any other guesses? We know that AS probably won't start SNA-HNL with the SNA slot they are giving up, due to weight restrictions that the 738 would take out of SNA.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7862 times:
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Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
Any other guesses?

SAN-LIH
PDX-KOA goes year-round.

Maybe additional frequencies will be added to the more popular segments.


User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7697 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 4):
Thank you for taking the time to do that

No problem. It gave me some good insight into the service that AS operated to Hawaii: I had no idea they had so many flights and destinations!

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 5):
There is KOA-PDX service.

It wasn't listed in the AS timetable that I used. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but that's why I didn't notice it. My apologies for not checking another source (that was really the only source I knew to check).


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7644 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 9):
No problem. It gave me some good insight into the service that AS operated to Hawaii: I had no idea they had so many flights and destinations!

20% of AS's total capacity is now in Hawaii.


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7627 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 10):

That's amazing, 20%. Good for them


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
with the SNA slot they are giving up

As far as I know, SNA isn't slot controlled.


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7279 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 12):
As far as I know, SNA isn't slot controlled.

Yes it is. WN has something like 60% of them, if memory serves me correctly...


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7192 times:

My guess (since last year) has been SAN-LIH/KOA with a split flight -- maybe 4x wkly to KOA and the other 3 days to Kauai. I wouldn't be surprised to see the routes start late this year.

bb


User currently offlineflyPBA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7079 times:

Quoting sflaflight (Reply 3):
Why no KOA or LIH PDX flights? Especially since AS conciders PDX as a hub!

it all comes down to available aircraft

anyone know if Alaska is going to ETOPS certify their 737-990ER fleet?


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7069 times:

Quoting flyPBA (Reply 15):

anyone know if Alaska is going to ETOPS certify their 737-990ER fleet?

Yes I believe they will come certified already for ETOPS.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6989 times:
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Quoting flyPBA (Reply 15):
anyone know if Alaska is going to ETOPS certify their 737-990ER fleet?

I don't think AS has any plans to use the 737-990ERs on the Mainland Hawaii flights...but I wouldn't throw out that possibility.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6929 times:
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Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 17):
I don't think AS has any plans to use the 737-990ERs on the Mainland Hawaii flights

Not in the immediate future, no - however they'll be ETOPS certified for the added flexibility in the event demand or market conditions dictate.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12892 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6678 times:
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Quoting hatbutton (Reply 10):
20% of AS's total capacity is now in Hawaii.

  

To think there are still a few city pairs that could justify service. Well done and quite a market changer.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 17):
I don't think AS has any plans to use the 737-990ERs on the Mainland Hawaii flights...but I wouldn't throw out that possibility.

You'll be seeing the -900ER's in Hawaii sooner than you think. Some will be ETOPS equiped out of the factory and I hear that all future orders are being coverted from -800's to the 900's. It will be the perfect plane for Hawaii service...same range as the -800 but higher RASM due to two extra rows in Y. Perfect to compete with WN due to lower CASM than the -800.


User currently offlineANCsupercub From United States of America, joined May 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Does Delta still do their ground handeling? Any plans to hire some of their own staff?

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6214 times:
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Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 21):
Does Delta still do their ground handeling

Yes

Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 21):
Any plans to hire some of their own staff?

We have a Customer Service Manager who oversees all HI stations, plus Supervisors or "Contract Service Leads" in each location. There is the potential for AS to hire their own CSAs at some point, but not just yet.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinepanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 20):
It will be the perfect plane for Hawaii service...same range as the -800 but higher RASM due to two extra rows in Y. Perfect to compete with WN due to lower CASM than the -800.

Their 738 is configured with 16/141 and the -900ER will be 20/164 - four extra in F, and 23 more in Y. Quite a bit of opportunity for AS in Hawaii with the new birds.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5909 times:

Here's an honest question, a bit OT but still relevant - Why does AS operate so many flights to Hawaii? Especially when there's so many better options. At my home airport, PDX, AS handles lots of Hawaii routes, such as HNL, OGG, and seasonal KOA (I think.) Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this is good for Portland's economy, but I wonder...

But there are better options. HA flies a 763 here for HNL service. (Unfortunately HA's OGG flight was recently cut, likely thanks to AS.) Honestly, I for one would much, much rather fly down to SFO or LAX to catch a 772 to the islands than take one of AS's 738s there, with the lower leis painted on the tails...   

I am not trying to sound rude or condescending here... But this is a question I've pondered for some time now. What do you guys think?


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6221 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 24):
I for one would much, much rather fly down to SFO or LAX to catch a 772 to the islands than take one of AS's 738s there, with the lower leis painted on the tails...

Seriously? You'd add 3-4 hours to your travel time, take the chance of a misconnect due to mechanical or weather (OMG there's a cloud over SFO!!) rather than take a non-stop just because it's a narrow-body? AS's load factors of 90%+ to Hawaii show you are are in the minority. I've taken plenty of 757's to Europe and Hawaii...a 737-800 or -900 is not much different.


User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1903 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6181 times:

A lot of us are very loyal to AS too.

Got the credit card, got the status.... not going to connect through somewhere else for a bigger plane.
The Alaska staff and planes are just fine for Hawaii. No complaints here and it's quick and painless.



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 27, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 24):
Here's an honest question, a bit OT but still relevant - Why does AS operate so many flights to Hawaii? Especially when there's so many better options. At my home airport, PDX, AS handles lots of Hawaii routes, such as HNL, OGG, and seasonal KOA (I think.) Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this is good for Portland's economy, but I wonder... But there are better options. HA flies a 763 here for HNL service. (Unfortunately HA's OGG flight was recently cut, likely thanks to AS.) Honestly, I for one would much, much rather fly down to SFO or LAX to catch a 772 to the islands than take one of AS's 738s there, with the lower leis painted on the tails... I am not trying to sound rude or condescending here... But this is a question I've pondered for some time now. What do you guys think?

This clearly falls under the heading "To each their own".

My in-laws are heading to Hawaii again soon, and once again will be on Alaska.

Our friends we had over for dinner on Saturday are heading to Hawaii again soon, and would not consider Alaska over Hawaiian. They like the bigger cabin with the ability to get up and walk around without being trapped by a drink cart.

To each their own.  

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6278 times:
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Not sure if the 739's have the legs for Hawaii from the mainland, at least not reliably.

User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6279 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 25):
Seriously? You'd add 3-4 hours to your travel time, take the chance of a misconnect due to mechanical or weather (OMG there's a cloud over SFO!!) rather than take a non-stop just because it's a narrow-body?

To be painfully honest, yes. I like widebodies, and if I can plan longer layovers as well as try to avoid delay-prone airports (like SFO) then I can feel pretty certain about not misconnecting.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 25):
AS's load factors of 90%+ to Hawaii show you are are in the minority.

That doesn't surprise me and yes I do consider myself to be in the minority. Do you have any info on load factors of other airlines?

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 25):
I've taken plenty of 757's to Europe and Hawaii...a 737-800 or -900 is not much different.

I'm comparing 737s to widebodies, not 757s. I agree though, a 752 and a 738 do not feel that much different.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 26):
A lot of us are very loyal to AS too.

Yep. I have some in my family. I just try to differentiate myself from them.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 26):
not going to connect through somewhere else for a bigger plane.

That's where we differ.  
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 26):
The Alaska staff and planes are just fine for Hawaii. No complaints here and it's quick and painless.

Interesting to know. I personally don't care for the AS product, but that's just me.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 27):
This clearly falls under the heading "To each their own".

   Oh yes.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 27):
My in-laws are heading to Hawaii again soon, and once again will be on Alaska.

Our friends we had over for dinner on Saturday are heading to Hawaii again soon, and would not consider Alaska over Hawaiian. They like the bigger cabin with the ability to get up and walk around without being trapped by a drink cart.

To each their own.

Exactly. Thanks for sharing! I like the bigger cabin, too.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6219 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 29):
I personally don't care for the AS product, but that's just me.

Thanks for the explanation...you sound like a reasonable chap.    I have to ask though...what is it about their 'product' that you don't care for? Is this anything to do with the former 'prayer card' by any chance? They were discontinued last February.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 31, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6139 times:
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I shared the same sentiments with AlnessW when it came to flying widebodies vs. narrowbodies. But I took a chance of flying a 738 to Hawaii on AS. I found it more comfortable than I expected. And who can turn down free Mai Tai's??? We've been consistently flying AS to Hawaii...because, yes, I'm one of the loyal ones with MVP Gold and the credit card. I'm proud to be supporting our hometown airline!

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 32, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6080 times:
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Quoting AlnessW (Reply 24):
Honestly, I for one would much, much rather fly down to SFO or LAX to catch a 772 to the islands than take one of AS's 738s there,

"I...for ONE..." being the key words, here.

Most people don't share your values; they're interested in saving time and money, and that's why AS succeeds, even with the 738s you abhor.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 33, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6076 times:

Every time this discussion comes up (737s to the Islands) there are a few who insist they will NOT fly a narrow body there. And that's fine; no prob. For every person with that viewpoint, there are obviously hundreds who are very happy to fly any jet with fares, schedules, and service that are acceptable to them.

The problem remains, however, that there are fewer and fewer widebodies flying between California and the Islands.

bb


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12892 posts, RR: 100
Reply 34, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5888 times:
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Quoting AlnessW (Reply 24):
But there are better options. HA flies a 763 here for HNL service. (Unfortunately HA's OGG flight was recently cut, likely thanks to AS.) Honestly, I for one would much, much rather fly down to SFO or LAX to catch a 772 to the islands than take one of AS's 738s there, with the lower leis painted on the tails...

You do not have kids do you? Or you have quite a bit more vacation time than I do. Adding 3 to 4 hours as a connection would make the Hawaii trip a 'no go' for my family. The kids would melt down (and we have exceptionally well behaved children).

I ask you, what should AS do? They fly zero widebodies. Are you suggesting they abandon the market? Since AS is profitable and look at how much they've thrown to Hawaii:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 10):
20% of AS's total capacity is now in Hawaii.

I'm still floored by that stat.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 29):
and if I can plan longer layovers as well as try to avoid delay-prone airports (like SFO) then I can feel pretty certain about not misconnecting.

Most of those I know who fly out of PDX try to avoid any crowded hub. In other words, they'll hub in SEA and DEN, but everything else they try to avoid. You must love widebodies to an unusual degree to do that.

Now, I know individuals who flew out of their way to fly the A380... so to each there own.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 33):
Every time this discussion comes up (737s to the Islands) there are a few who insist they will NOT fly a narrow body there.

And yet the market says otherwise. The same is true for TATL narrowbodies... Yet TATL narrowbodies seem to be holding (if not growing) market share.

If the CS100 proves it can do Hawaii to the mainland, I suspect HA will have to change their strategy to the US west coast too. The fraction of narrowbodies to Hawaii will only grow with Southwest, Allergiant, and everyone with the MAX and NEO.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5910 times:

I remember our first trip to Hawaii on a 737....AQ was having a killer sale out of SNA so we took the bait. I thought it was going to be strange flying a -37 all that way but it turned out to be no different than a trans-con. Only difference was there was not much to look at out the window besides clouds!

AS is filling those -37's on every route they fly to Hawaii...they won't be making a change to appease the few that won't fly them because of the a/c type. Leaves people to fly HA and I think that's just fine as they're a great airline as well.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5797 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 30):
Thanks for the explanation...you sound like a reasonable chap.

Not a problem, thanks. I could say the same about you!
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 30):
I have to ask though...what is it about their 'product' that you don't care for?

Valid question indeed. For an airline that operates only one type of aircraft, it gets pretty dull for a person that is fussy about aircraft types, with 738 after 738 after 73G after 734 after 738... But that's just me being nitpicky.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 30):
Is this anything to do with the former 'prayer card' by any chance? They were discontinued last February.

I don't think I am familiar with this...

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 31):
I shared the same sentiments with AlnessW when it came to flying widebodies vs. narrowbodies.
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 31):
But I took a chance of flying a 738 to Hawaii on AS. I found it more comfortable than I expected.

Interesting to know, but long-haul flights on narrowbodies do not make sense to me. Sure, I'd love to fly a 767 from the west coast to BOS, but that is never going to happen.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 31):
I'm proud to be supporting our hometown airline!

You know, I'm thinking that if I don't feel like supporting AS... Then I should find another airport.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
"I...for ONE..." being the key words, here.
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
Most people don't share your values; they're interested in saving time and money, and that's why AS succeeds, even with the 738s you abhor.

You have hit the nail on the head... Sadly that is just the case with 21st century air travel. These days it's all about time/money saving, flying LCCs, and whatnot.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 33):
Every time this discussion comes up (737s to the Islands) there are a few who insist they will NOT fly a narrow body there. And that's fine; no prob.

Indeed, and I am proud to put myself in that category.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 33):
For every person with that viewpoint, there are obviously hundreds who are very happy to fly any jet with fares, schedules, and service that are acceptable to them.
See my comment above. Sad, but true...

Quoting SANFan (Reply 33):
The problem remains, however, that there are fewer and fewer widebodies flying between California and the Islands.

Unfortunately, you are correct there as well. While I was able find a somewhat-decent number of (UA) 763s and 772s that fly there, I am seeing more and more 752s and (ex-CO) 738s...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
You do not have kids do you? Or you have quite a bit more vacation time than I do.

Nope.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Adding 3 to 4 hours as a connection would make the Hawaii trip a 'no go' for my family. The kids would melt down (and we have exceptionally well behaved children).

To each their own...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
I ask you, what should AS do? They fly zero widebodies. Are you suggesting they abandon the market? Since AS is profitable and look at how much they've thrown to Hawaii:

Why would you assume that? I did not say that at all.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
I'm still floored by that stat.

Me too.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Most of those I know who fly out of PDX try to avoid any crowded hub. In other words, they'll hub in SEA and DEN, but everything else they try to avoid.

I have noticed that, too. I guess that they're all just hippies that want to fly as cheaply and easily as possible...
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
You must love widebodies to an unusual degree to do that.

OK, is it my fault that I want a bigger aircraft?

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 35):
I remember our first trip to Hawaii on a 737....AQ was having a killer sale out of SNA so we took the bait. I thought it was going to be strange flying a -37 all that way but it turned out to be no different than a trans-con. Only difference was there was not much to look at out the window besides clouds!

Well I am glad that this works for some.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 35):
AS is filling those -37's on every route they fly to Hawaii...they won't be making a change to appease the few that won't fly them because of the a/c type.

You think I haven't figured that out by now...
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 35):
Leaves people to fly HA and I think that's just fine as they're a great airline as well.


User currently offlineANCsupercub From United States of America, joined May 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5762 times:

My thought is that the majority of passengers don't know what type of aircraft they will be flying. They just look for a combination of the cheapest and most convient fare. I know members of my family wouldn't base a decision to book a flight because of the aircraft. I have had the pleasure of flying Alaska to Hawaii and had no complaints.

User currently offlinemcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5706 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Quoting hatbutton (Reply 10):
20% of AS's total capacity is now in Hawaii.

I'm still floored by that stat.

Not trying to be snarky, but is 20% true? It's seems much too high given that we are talking about 20 flight per day.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 39, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5685 times:
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Quoting AlnessW (Reply 36):
You know, I'm thinking that if I don't feel like supporting AS... Then I should find another airport.

Nope...Sorry if I conveyed that message to you. I just like supporting AS. The HA option of connecting at HNL is always there as well...and you know that. Connections for HA at HNL really isn't that bad since they're all on the same north end of the airport.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12892 posts, RR: 100
Reply 40, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5636 times:
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Quoting AlnessW (Reply 36):
OK, is it my fault that I want a bigger aircraft?

Not at all. By all means fly on what you enjoy flying on. I find the 767 quite comfortable. In particular that *one* segment I had the pleasure of riding up in AA's first class (errr... everyone else calls it business). (My employer as well as myself are too cheap to pay for said privilege, but once I was required to be there and that was the only option.)

If you are willing to pay for an international J class seat to Hawaii (I assume UA flies those from SFO, but I do not know), then your decision makes far more sense to me.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 36):
I have noticed that, too. I guess that they're all just hippies that want to fly as cheaply and easily as possible..

Probably.   Do note, I have quite a bit of family in that area, so I say it with kindness.

Quoting mcg (Reply 38):
Not trying to be snarky, but is 20% true? It's seems much too high given that we are talking about 20 flight per day.

I don't know for sure... We can do some 'back of the envelope math.' Due to the stage lengths, it would take up about 20% of AS's capacity and just under 1/3rd of their 738s!    Assuming AS also pushed up utilization with runs up and down the west coast, it actually is probably closer to 12% to 15% of their capacity from an airframe point of view. I'm not sure from a seat mile point of view due to the Combis.

Side question:
I see the 734s being retired near term will be replaced by 739ERs. Is there any rumor of the long term replacement? Those 734s must be having climbing maintenance costs by now. It is my impression that AS typically upgauges aircraft at replacement (the exception being 727s replaced with MD-83s). IMHO, the 737-9 (MAX) would be an excellent fit for AS's fleet for 734 replacement (with a few exceptions that could have 738s rotated in for field performance). Any rumors?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 41, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5665 times:

I've flown both AS and HA from Seattle to Hawaii.

Granted, I do prefer the 767 heading over, but have switched over to AS for our Hawaii trips as we're loyal to AS and their mileage plan. I was a bit skeptical the first time we flew over on Alaska, but, as with others, we were pleasantly surprised. I don't know why I should be, though, as I routinely fly to the east coast on 757s and 738s, so I'm used to narrowbodies for 5-6 hours (minus the mai tais).

One thing is for sure, I love that I have the choice when we go, and can fly widebody if wanted, but usually our Alaska Mileage account wins.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 42, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5591 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Quoting hatbutton (Reply 10):20% of AS's total capacity is now in Hawaii.
I'm still floored by that stat.

The glass-half-empty side of me wonders what it will be in five years as Allegiant, Southwest, and likely others (VX, B6, NK) enter with 757's, 738's, and NEO/MAX's? Alaska was operating a good amount of intra-CA at one point. Alaska was operating a good amount of Mexico at one point. I'm not saying they were run out or not successful, just that they seem to move and evolve over time in a manner that leads me to wonder if Hawaii is a long term plan or a mid-term opportunity?

Either way, as long as they are making money, it's all good.

Quoting mcg (Reply 38):
Not trying to be snarky, but is 20% true? It's seems much too high given that we are talking about 20 flight per day.

I'm assuming it's seat-miles.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 42):
Quoting mcg (Reply 38):
Not trying to be snarky, but is 20% true? It's seems much too high given that we are talking about 20 flight per day.

I'm assuming it's seat-miles.

Yes it's ASMs. Not Departures. And it's true. I'm not just making an assumption.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 37):
My thought is that the majority of passengers don't know what type of aircraft they will be flying. They just look for a combination of the cheapest and most convient fare.

Yes, indeed. Nowadays it's ALL about low fares, really.

Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 37):
I know members of my family wouldn't base a decision to book a flight because of the aircraft.

Oh yes. I am the only person in my family who is going to book with aircraft types in mind. All they care about are nonstops and low fares.

Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 37):
I have had the pleasure of flying Alaska to Hawaii and had no complaints.

Well the fact that you said "pleasure" kind of says a lot...

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 39):
Nope...Sorry if I conveyed that message to you.

No no, not at all. I don't mean to give you that impression. I'm just trying to be honest with myself. If I don't like flying AS (not just to Hawaii, but anywhere), then maybe I should choose a different airport that is not PDX.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 39):
I just like supporting AS.

And I...well... Don't.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 39):
The HA option of connecting at HNL is always there as well...and you know that.

Indeed!  
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 39):
Connections for HA at HNL really isn't that bad since they're all on the same north end of the airport.

Good to know!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 40):
Not at all. By all means fly on what you enjoy flying on.

Indeed, I will. Thanks. But that makes me puzzled about your previous comment:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
You must love widebodies to an unusual degree to do that.

  

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 40):
I find the 767 quite comfortable.

Good news, thanks. I've heard good and bad things about the 767...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 40):
If you are willing to pay for an international J class seat to Hawaii (I assume UA flies those from SFO, but I do not know), then your decision makes far more sense to me.

In my dreams.
Not sure if the UA 767s and 777s from SFO to Hawaii are domestically or internationally configured, but that wouldn't matter for me because I'd be in Economy...  
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 40):
Probably. Do note, I have quite a bit of family in that area, so I say it with kindness.

Yes, same here. Though it's hard to deny...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 40):
Those 734s must be having climbing maintenance costs by now.

Once upon a time, an AS 734 failed me because of a mechanical problem.

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 41):
I've flown both AS and HA from Seattle to Hawaii.

Granted, I do prefer the 767 heading over

Excellent.

Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 41):
I was a bit skeptical the first time we flew over on Alaska, but, as with others, we were pleasantly surprised. I don't know why I should be, though, as I routinely fly to the east coast on 757s and 738s, so I'm used to narrowbodies for 5-6 hours

Honestly, I see it as "if there are widebodies available then I want to take them over narrowbodies."

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 42):
Alaska was operating a good amount of intra-CA at one point. Alaska was operating a good amount of Mexico at one point.

Does AS no longer do intra-California and Mexico? I thought that former-QX as well as mainline AS did a bunch of those routes.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 42):
Either way, as long as they are making money, it's all good.

... And as they continue to expand their already-monstrous PDX operations.   


User currently offlinedlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 29):
Interesting to know. I personally don't care for the AS product, but that's just me.

Since Delta doesnt know what to do with there LAX-GDL flight which is not running right now,i have to fly AS and the planes they use to go down there are awful and the tamales they give out are even worse than HA free food that they give out lol....

Quoting SANFan (Reply 33):
that there are fewer and fewer wide bodies flying between California and the Islands.

Not for DL/UA if you look at them in HNL there mostly all wide bodies..Shoot even UA flies 777/767 and sometimes 747's in to KOA....IMHO i think its just the price and a bunch of loyal AS flyers.Lets just say your buddy is gonna pay for you to go to HNL and he says you wanna fly on a HA 330-200 or AS 737-800 AHHH who would be the minority then?


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
Not for DL/UA if you look at them in HNL there mostly all wide bodies..

What does DL fly there?

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
Shoot even UA flies 777/767

Yep, see my earlier comment:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 36):
somewhat-decent number of (UA) 763s and 772s

  

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
and sometimes 747's in to KOA

 Wow! Seriously?

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
IMHO i think its just the price and a bunch of loyal AS flyers.

   I'll agree with you there.

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
Lets just say your buddy is gonna pay for you to go to HNL

Now, where does one find one of those "buddies?"...  
Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
and he says you wanna fly on a HA 330-200 or AS 737-800 AHHH who would be the minority then?

I'll take the A330!


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 47, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5150 times:
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Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 45):
Since Delta doesnt know what to do with there LAX-GDL flight which is not running right now,i have to fly AS and the planes they use to go down there are awful and the tamales they give out are even worse than HA free food that they give out lol....

Are you truly restricted to flying on AS on the LAX-GDL flights??? Maybe you should try AM or Volaris.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 46):
I'll take the A330!

You'll have to go to LAX or LAS for those for the time-being.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12892 posts, RR: 100
Reply 48, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5057 times:
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Quoting AlnessW (Reply 46):
I'll take the A330!

I'd rather have the A330 too. But I won't hub for it.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 49, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 44):
Does AS no longer do intra-California and Mexico? I thought that former-QX as well as mainline AS did a bunch of those routes.

They do. Sorry, I'm being a little general in my statements. What I mean is that at one time AS had a more substantial (though not large) intra-California network. While they do have some intrastate service, it is mostly recent Q400 additions. Otherwise, they are rarely an option for most people compared to past years.

With Mexico, they used to have a more sizable presence but have had to pull back on capacity due to the violence down there. Again, they still fly a lot of planes there, but it's quite a bit less than past years.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 50, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 20):
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 17):
I don't think AS has any plans to use the 737-990ERs on the Mainland Hawaii flights...but I wouldn't throw out that possibility.

You'll be seeing the -900ER's in Hawaii sooner than you think. Some will be ETOPS equiped out of the factory and I hear that all future orders are being coverted from -800's to the 900's. It will be the perfect plane for Hawaii service...same range as the -800 but higher RASM due to two extra rows in Y. Perfect to compete with WN due to lower CASM than the -800.

Unless AS gets at least one of two offered aux tanks, forget reliable westbound service with headwinds without huge weigh restrictions.
The 739ER has the same basic tanks as the 738, but has a 15k additional GTOW. I was bumped on a CO 739ER LAX-HNL last year and the flight went out with at least 40 empty seats. The problem wasn't MGOTW, rather not enough fuel to carry ETOPS fuel and fight headwinds. I believe one aux tank would at least equal the 738's range - two tanks and you'd be bumping revenue due to MGTOW.
Not sure why CO didn't order the one aux tank as the bins would still be larger than a 738.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4908 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 47):
You'll have to go to LAX or LAS for those for the time-being.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 48):
I'd rather have the A330 too. But I won't hub for it.

Being a Boeing man I'd prefer a 767/777.  
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):
They do. Sorry, I'm being a little general in my statements.

No problem, thanks for clarifying.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 49):
What I mean is that at one time AS had a more substantial (though not large) intra-California network. While they do have some intrastate service, it is mostly recent Q400 additions. Otherwise, they are rarely an option for most people compared to past years.

Interesting to know, though the Q400s don't surprise me. Thanks for sharing.


User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4608 times:

ANCsupercub From United States of America, joined May 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted Mon May 7 2012 08:59:58 your local time (2 days 6 hours 32 minutes ago) and read 1972 times:

Does Delta still do their ground handeling? Any plans to hire some of their own staff?

Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 21):

DL handles AS in HNL only, and always has.

UA handled AS in LIH, OGG and KOA until late last year. Delta Global Services took over handling in OGG and KOA, with LIH still being handled by UA.


User currently onlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1949 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4603 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 31):
I shared the same sentiments with AlnessW when it came to flying widebodies vs. narrowbodies. But I took a chance of flying a 738 to Hawaii on AS. I found it more comfortable than I expected. And who can turn down free Mai Tai's??? We've been consistently flying AS to Hawaii...because, yes, I'm one of the loyal ones with MVP Gold and the credit card. I'm proud to be supporting our hometown airline!

I had the same feeling initially, and I'd say it's only slightly reduced now. I flew, with family, SEA-OGG. I would have much preferred going on a HA 763, but the AS tickets were available as AAdvantage awards. Overall, service was good (as usual), but I'd still prefer a larger plane on that route.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4352 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 53):
but I'd still prefer a larger plane on that route.
I agree. Doesn't AS have a pretty decent sized operation in SEA?


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 55, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4311 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 54):
Doesn't AS have a pretty decent sized operation in SEA?

It's huge (for them). It's their home base, their hub, etc.

Tom.


User currently offlinesuprazachair From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4277 times:

I've rolled my eyes so many times reading this that I'm feeling dizzy.

I'll save the soap box lecture and mockery that I had originally thought of and simply say this... For those that consider narrowbody aircraft such cruel and unusual torture (but only on west coast to Hawaii, because its clearly completely different than west coast to east coast) I bring forth a suggestion that has never let me down: go to sleep. The flight goes by quicker, the cabin dimensions and service are exactly the same on every airline when you're not awake, and trust me when I say there's nothing to look at over the middle of the Pacific. Plus if you're going to huff and puff with complaints the whole way, going to sleep will help your neighbor enjoy the flight more.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 57, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Quoting suprazachair (Reply 56):
I'll save the soap box lecture and mockery that I had originally thought of and simply say this... For those that consider narrowbody aircraft such cruel and unusual torture (but only on west coast to Hawaii, because its clearly completely different than west coast to east coast) I bring forth a suggestion that has never let me down: go to sleep. The flight goes by quicker, the cabin dimensions and service are exactly the same on every airline when you're not awake, and trust me when I say there's nothing to look at over the middle of the Pacific. Plus if you're going to huff and puff with complaints the whole way, going to sleep will help your neighbor enjoy the flight more.

Tusen tak!!   


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 58, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4221 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting suprazachair (Reply 56):
I'll save the soap box lecture and mockery that I had originally thought of and simply say this... For those that consider narrowbody aircraft such cruel and unusual torture (but only on west coast to Hawaii, because its clearly completely different than west coast to east coast) I bring forth a suggestion that has never let me down: go to sleep. The flight goes by quicker, the cabin dimensions and service are exactly the same on every airline when you're not awake, and trust me when I say there's nothing to look at over the middle of the Pacific. Plus if you're going to huff and puff with complaints the whole way, going to sleep will help your neighbor enjoy the flight more.

LOL! Benadryl is pretty effective for that.


User currently offlinematt From Canada, joined May 1999, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 59, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

I have a question regarding AS's Hawaii ops, more specifically with regards to crew scheduling.

- Where are AS's crew bases? Any crews based in Hawaii?
- Do crews operate flights between the mainland and Hawaii (or vice-versa) without a layover or is there always a planned layover (due to maximum duty time)?
- Are these flights complicated with respect to crew scheduling (I'm talking about the ones that operate to smaller cities and with low weekly frequencies)?

Matt



Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
User currently onlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1949 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

Quoting suprazachair (Reply 56):
I've rolled my eyes so many times reading this that I'm feeling dizzy.

I'll save the soap box lecture and mockery that I had originally thought of and simply say this... For those that consider narrowbody aircraft such cruel and unusual torture (but only on west coast to Hawaii, because its clearly completely different than west coast to east coast) I bring forth a suggestion that has never let me down: go to sleep. The flight goes by quicker, the cabin dimensions and service are exactly the same on every airline when you're not awake, and trust me when I say there's nothing to look at over the middle of the Pacific. Plus if you're going to huff and puff with complaints the whole way, going to sleep will help your neighbor enjoy the flight more.

Why does it affect you that some of us prefer a larger aircraft? Something about a narrowbody over water for that period of time just sort of freaks me out. I wouldn't argue it's justified, simply not my preference.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Quoting matt (Reply 59):
-
Where are AS's crew bases? Any crews based in Hawaii?
- Do crews operate flights between the mainland and Hawaii (or vice-versa) without a layover or is there always a planned layover (due to maximum duty time)?
- Are these flights complicated with respect to crew scheduling (I'm talking about the ones that operate to smaller cities and with low weekly frequencies)?


Nope, no crew bases in Hawaii. Currently (in order of size) SEA, LAX (plus three co-terminals SNA, ONT, BUR), ANC and PDX.

Due to maximum length of duty day restrictions, all FA's layover at their destination in Hawaii.

Yes...many crews are laying over in BLI, OAK, SAN, SJC and SMF in order to position for the outbound or go into rest after the flight back to the mainland.


User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 62, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4153 times:

Quoting suprazachair (Reply 56):
I'll save the soap box lecture and mockery that I had originally thought of and simply say this... For those that consider narrowbody aircraft such cruel and unusual torture (but only on west coast to Hawaii, because its clearly completely different than west coast to east coast) I bring forth a suggestion that has never let me down: go to sleep. The flight goes by quicker, the cabin dimensions and service are exactly the same on every airline when you're not awake, and trust me when I say there's nothing to look at over the middle of the Pacific. Plus if you're going to huff and puff with complaints the whole way, going to sleep will help your neighbor enjoy the flight more.

Relax, I think you're taking the comments a wee too seriously.

I'm a loyal AS flier and would happily choose them over a widebody. That being said, it is my preference to fly on a widebody over a narrowbody. Why? I don't know, but I don't need a reason and I don't need to explain myself. I just prefer the feel of a 767 over a 737. Simple as that. For me, I prefer flying AS anyway because the customer service and overall product wins out over the other airlines I've experienced (though I've yet to try HA, and that's something I hope to do soon). But I don't get my pants in a twist if someone disagrees.

It's all personal preference, nothing to get dizzy about, and I certainly don't see any huffing and puffing going on in this thread, just a nice, respectful discussion.  


User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 63, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4091 times:

I remember my first trip to Hawaii was about 1966, in a narrow body, a 707-320. There were no wide bodies back then.


Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3828 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 55):
It's huge (for them). It's their home base, their hub, etc.

Thanks for clarifying. How does the hub at PDX compare size wise to SEA?

Quoting suprazachair (Reply 56):
I've rolled my eyes so many times reading this that I'm feeling dizzy.

I think you don't get get it. Take a look at these comments below.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 60):
Why does it affect you that some of us prefer a larger aircraft? Something about a narrowbody over water for that period of time just sort of freaks me out. I wouldn't argue it's justified, simply not my preference.
Thank you, StuckInCA.

Quoting Airport (Reply 62):
Relax, I think you're taking the comments a wee too seriously.
Quoting Airport (Reply 62):
it is my preference to fly on a widebody over a narrowbody. Why? I don't know, but I don't need a reason and I don't need to explain myself. I just prefer the feel of a 767 over a 737. Simple as that.
I couldn't agree more.

Quoting Airport (Reply 62):
I prefer flying AS anyway because the customer service and overall product wins out over the other airlines I've experienced

Really? I've found the AS customer service to be nearly the same as (sometimes below) other US airlines.

(Edited for spelling)

[Edited 2012-05-14 09:26:50]

User currently onlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 65, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3779 times:

Quoting sflaflight (Reply 3):
Especially since AS conciders PDX as a hub!

Why would they have a hub so close to their main base in SEA and not just funnel traffic through their hub in SEA. Why also would they also fly to Hawaii from Bellingham as well?



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3540 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 65):
Why would they have a hub so close to their main base in SEA and not just funnel traffic through their hub in SEA. Why also would they also fly to Hawaii from Bellingham as well?

Exactly. Yet another thing about AS that I don't understand...


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 846 posts, RR: 2
Reply 67, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3512 times:
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Quoting AlnessW (Reply 66):
Quoting brilondon (Reply 65):
Why would they have a hub so close to their main base in SEA and not just funnel traffic through their hub in SEA. Why also would they also fly to Hawaii from Bellingham as well?


Exactly. Yet another thing about AS that I don't understand...



PDX has quite a strong local market. It is also a great alternative to connecting in SEA, and also connecting TO SEA when direct SEA flights are full. (I see this every week from the Bay Area).

Bellingham-Hawaii service (as well as BLI-LAS) is geared towards one market....Canadians. The flights offer a less expensive option over YVR.

Alness....looks like to you need to spend a little more time on your hometown airline!  

Tom SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 68, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3404 times:

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 67):
PDX has quite a strong local market. It is also a great alternative to connecting in SEA, and also connecting TO SEA when direct SEA flights are full. (I see this every week from the Bay Area).

Bellingham-Hawaii service (as well as BLI-LAS) is geared towards one market....Canadians. The flights offer a less expensive option over YVR.

Interesting, thanks.

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 67):
Alness....looks like to you need to spend a little more time on your hometown airline!

Yes, yes, I do. They deserve my respect, but somehow I just can't seem to give it to them.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 69, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3360 times:
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Quoting mcg (Reply 38):
Not trying to be snarky, but is 20% true?
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 68):
Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 67):Alness....looks like to you need to spend a little more time on your hometown airline!
Yes, yes, I do. They deserve my respect, but somehow I just can't seem to give it to them.

Try harder. You can do it.  



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 70, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3358 times:
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Quoting brilondon (Reply 65):
Why would they have a hub so close to their main base in SEA and not just funnel traffic through their hub in SEA. Why also would they also fly to Hawaii from Bellingham as well?

PDX has been a connecting complex or hub for years. Why not dominate the PNW when you have that opportunity?


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 71, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 68):
Yes, yes, I do. They deserve my respect, but somehow I just can't seem to give it to them.

That's okay. Given AS's successes and fierce brand loyalty, there are plenty of other people who make up for your lack of respect for AS.

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 67):
Bellingham-Hawaii service (as well as BLI-LAS) is geared towards one market....Canadians.

Actually, when you think about it BLI supports a large cachement area in Washington State too. Even if you live in north Everett near PAE, it can be almost as fast to get to BLI as it would be to SEA at some times of day. There's Everett, Mt. Vernon, Marysville, Burlington, Arlington, the San Juan Islands, Camano Island, Whidbey Island, Bellingham itself, the Methow Valley (when highway 20 is open in the Summer), etc besides lower British Columbia.

The question now is can AS and G4 peacefully co-exist profitably on the BLI-HNL route? Will AS start BLI-OGG now?


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 72, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 71):
Actually, when you think about it BLI supports a large cachement area in Washington State too. Even if you live in north Everett near PAE, it can be almost as fast to get to BLI as it would be to SEA at some times of day.

Very true...anyone that lives Everett north should consider BLI. When I took my mom to HNL last year it was easier to drive north from my home in Seattle, pick her up in Everett, and continue on to BLI rather than backtrack to SEA. Parking was like $6 a day and we were able to do the paid upgrade to FC on check-in. Try doing that out of SEA! Oops...shouldn't have said that part.   


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 73, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 71):
The question now is can AS and G4 peacefully co-exist profitably on the BLI-HNL route? Will AS start BLI-OGG now?

They probably can, but I don't think that is AS' intention. They are doing the p2p routes out of BLI because they don't want to give an inch to G4. Were G4 to fold up tomorrow, you'd likely see a winding down of at least some of that. It's Alaska Airlines' gameplan.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 74, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3162 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
Were G4 to fold up tomorrow, you'd likely see a winding down of at least some of that. It's Alaska Airlines' gameplan.

Are you sure about that? I thought AS did very well on BLI-LAS and BLI-HNL. I don't think AS is in the business of running unprofitable flights just to keep another carrier out of the market.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 75, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 71):
The question now is can AS and G4 peacefully co-exist profitably on the BLI-HNL route? Will AS start BLI-OGG now?

I guess we'll find out this winter. I'm bummed that AS didn't beat G4 to the punch on BLI-OGG

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/allegi...hts-mainland-hawaii-084500960.html


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 76, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3024 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 73):
Were G4 to fold up tomorrow, you'd likely see a winding down of at least some of that. It's Alaska Airlines' gameplan.

  

Actually, they're finding the idea of using BLI works quite well; plenty of folks from YVR are willing to make the short drive to save a ton of money on airfare (and parking costs!) to fly out of BLI.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 77, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

I was wondering if AS might have convinced themselves, or other interested parties, over the last couple of months that a direct flight between DCA and HNL would be a good idea (read: profitable)? Even though their proposed DCA-SAN-HNL didn't exactly fly, they could still rework SEA or PDX schedules so it would be possible to create direct service between DC and the Islands.

bb


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 78, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 77):
I was wondering if AS might have convinced themselves, or other interested parties, over the last couple of months that a direct flight between DCA and HNL would be a good idea (read: profitable)?

With what aircraft? I don't think a loaded 737NG ist going to make DCA-HNL with ETOPS reserves, even if it could get off DCA's short runway at full weight. It's also *way* too far for a DCA flight...that kind of route would have to go out of IAD.

Tom.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 79, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 69):
Try harder. You can do it.

  Yes, I know I can, but it's safe to say that I don't really want to...

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 70):
PDX has been a connecting complex or hub for years. Why not dominate the PNW when you have that opportunity?

You make a valid point there.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 71):
That's okay. Given AS's successes and fierce brand loyalty, there are plenty of other people who make up for your lack of respect for AS.

Good to know. I wouldn't doubt that for a moment.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 80, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2757 times:
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Quoting AlnessW (Reply 79):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 69):
Try harder. You can do it.

Yes, I know I can, but it's safe to say that I don't really want to...

Why not? Be specific.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 81, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 74):
Are you sure about that?

Of course I'm not "sure" about it. It's just my opinion of what might happen.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 74):
I don't think AS is in the business of running unprofitable flights just to keep another carrier out of the market.

I never stated they were unprofitable. I'm not part of their decision making, but it's fair to say that they have responded in the past to inroads in "their" markets from other carriers. For example, the flights from DEN to PDX, SEA, and ANC were (I believe) driven by the expansion of F9 into their markets, particularly ANC. BLI was to a degree driven by G4's success in that market. When VX came along, AS ratcheted up service up and down the west coast. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure it works well for them. However, it is not being done because it's necessarily what they want to do, it's because they are responding to competitive inroads.

With BLI, they might be there regardless of G4. I just doubt that's the case. I think AS is protecting their customer base regionally by closing up some of the weaknessess in their network. Just my opinion.

Anyhow, I'm not bashing AS. I just don't think it's all driven by their desire to be doing so many p2p routes. In some cases, it's because if they don't they'll suffer.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 82, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2666 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 81):
With BLI, they might be there regardless of G4. I just doubt that's the case.

Perhaps, but let me ask you this; when you find a $20 bill you'd forgotten all about in your pocket, at the end of the day does it really matter why you reached in there in the first place?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 83, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 82):
Perhaps, but let me ask you this; when you find a $20 bill you'd forgotten all about in your pocket, at the end of the day does it really matter why you reached in there in the first place?

  Absolutely not!

I think that AS put resources into BLI to combat G4. Now that they're there, I think they are finding good success and perhaps it will be a more permanent part of their route network because of that. Nothing wrong with that at all.

My only point - and it's minor - is that I don't think AS intended to go into BLI as a long-term focus of sorts, but rather to combat G4 (and others) and hopefully keep them out or marginal. That they have found stronger success and more commitment to the market is good to hear, but I'm not convinced that they are any more bonded to BLI than they are to any market that doesn't begin/end with SEA/PDX/ANC/LAX. As it should be.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 84, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 78):
With what aircraft? I don't think a loaded 737NG ist going to make DCA-HNL with ETOPS reserves, even if it could get off DCA's short runway at full weight. It's also *way* too far for a DCA flight...that kind of route would have to go out of IAD.

I don't think he was suggesting that DCA-HNL would be non-stop, but rather something like DCA-SAN-HNL or DCA-PDX-HNL. Recall that AQ allied for SNA-DCA several years ago so they could do DCA-SNA-HNL.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 85, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2462 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 80):
Why not? Be specific.

I find their service isn't great, practically all of their routes out of PDX are already covered by other airlines, and a boring fleet.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 86, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2403 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 78):
With what aircraft? I don't think a loaded 737NG ist going to make DCA-HNL with ETOPS reserves, even if it could get off DCA's short runway at full weight. It's also *way* too far for a DCA flight...that kind of route would have to go out of IAD
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 84):
I don't think he was suggesting that DCA-HNL would be non-stop, but rather something like DCA-SAN-HNL or DCA-PDX-HNL. Recall that AQ allied for SNA-DCA several years ago so they could do DCA-SNA-HNL

  

Sorry 'canuck, I thought I made it pretty clear that I was talking about "direct via a west coast stop (at SEA or PDX.)"

bb


User currently onlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 87, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 76):
Actually, they're finding the idea of using BLI works quite well; plenty of folks from YVR are willing to make the short drive to save a ton of money on airfare (and parking costs!) to fly out of BLI.

How's the border crossing to get from YVR-BLI? Is it fairly quick?



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 88, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 87):
How's the border crossing to get from YVR-BLI? Is it fairly quick?

If you have a secure border crossing authorization (e.g. NEXUS) then it's very quick (5-10 minutes tops).

If you don't and you're in the normal queue it can be anywhere from 5 minutes on a good day, about 15 minutes typically, and over 2 hours on a really busy holiday weekend.

Tom.


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