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How Many Unsold A340-500s?  
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3297 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 24478 times:

I make it 33 aircraft built in total with 886 and 894 remaining unsold. Both were intended and painted for Kingfisher but are currently stored. Are they still in Kingfisher colours at Toulouse?
Also whatever happened to TS-KRT, cn 902? Is it still active?

The reason I ask is that with the Air Canada / TAM A345s, the Thai A345s and the above stored, the inactive fleet stands at ten? Is that right?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHXA340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 896 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 24443 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Thread starter):
The reason I ask is that with the Air Canada / TAM A345s, the Thai A345s and the above stored, the inactive fleet stands at ten? Is that right?
http://www.planespotters.net/Product...ist/Airbus/A340/A340-500/index.php

Gives a good idea , it says only 7 are stored.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1322 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 23909 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Thread starter):
I make it 33 aircraft built in total with 886 and 894 remaining unsold. Both were intended and painted for Kingfisher but are currently stored. Are they still in Kingfisher colours at Toulouse?

MSN 886 (F-WWTG) is still in Kingfisher Colours.
MSN 894 (F-WWTH) has a white fuselage and red engines. Not so long ago Airbus intended to sell it to Sonair who apparently wanted to operate it for the Zimbabwean government however that deal never went through.
Quoting skipness1E (Thread starter):
Also whatever happened to TS-KRT, cn 902? Is it still active?
http://storage.canalblog.com/10/57/594547/71324623.jpg
As of late 2011 it was stored at Bordeaux. As a symbol of the former Tunisian autocrat's greed, I doubt the new Tunisian government want it. I'm sure that as it probably has a (very expensive) VIP interior, it will eventually be bought by another autocrat/government or one of the super rich.

Quoting skipness1E (Thread starter):
The reason I ask is that with the Air Canada / TAM A345s, the Thai A345s and the above stored, the inactive fleet stands at ten? Is that right?

Seven, it seems - but that is still too many. Such a waste to have an aircraft that good looking stuck on the ground. I don't think the Thai A340s have been stored just yet. Thai recently announced that they plan to restore/retire them but I don't think they have actually done so yet.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinebeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 23304 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 2):
Seven, it seems - but that is still too many. Such a waste to have an aircraft that good looking stuck on the ground.

Is the A340-500 that inefficient and what missions can it do and make some money for who ever operates the aircraft


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31240 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 23230 times:
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Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 3):
Is the A340-500 that inefficient and what missions can it do and make some money for who ever operates the aircraft.

The main issue is that ULH operations are just intrinsically hard to sustain at a profitable level because the fuel costs are so high - a fair bit of the fuel you burn is used to move the fuel needed for the mission. The A340-500 is also hampered by being very heavy for it's size - it's about ~10% larger than an A340-300, but it weighs ~30% more empty.

It's future will be as a VIP / Business Jet or as spares, unfortunately.



Quoting zkojq (Reply 2):
Such a waste to have an aircraft that good looking stuck on the ground.

So true. It is a very aesthetically pleasing aircraft to the eye and in TG's colors was quite stunning.

[Edited 2012-05-06 22:46:53]

User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6952 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 23200 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 2):
As a symbol of the former Tunisian autocrat's greed, I doubt the new Tunisian government want it. I'm sure that as it probably has a (very expensive) VIP interior, it will eventually be bought by another autocrat/government or one of the super rich.

And rumors have it, it'll go to an Indonesian super rich... we'll wait to see if this one will end up being bought by someone...
But where the hell are they going to park it? (along with 1 or 2 ACJs for the former Tunisian autocrat).

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineaccargofra From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 21819 times:

Anyone an idea where the Air Canada / TAM A345s are actually stored/parked ?

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 21311 times:

Quoting accargofra (Reply 6):
Anyone an idea where the Air Canada / TAM A345s are actually stored/parked ?

At MLA, in February, PT-MSN was damaged in a collision involving a tow truck at the Malta Airport:
http://bit.ly/J62GXo


User currently offlineFerroviarius From Norway, joined Mar 2007, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 18765 times:

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 3):
Is the A340-500 that inefficient and what missions can it do and make some money for who ever operates the aircraft

Good afternoon,

as has been pointed out by Stitch, ULH operations are intrinsically inefficient. One has to transport more fuel, more food and drinks and more staff in order to avoid an additional stop on the way.

Since the 345 is not ETOPS hampered, however, technically, I think - please, correct me - it would be feasible to make "one change airplane" travels from the entire Europe, specifically from the UK, to any place in Australia by using HEL as a hub. HEL-SYD is 8202 nautical miles according to the great circle mapper and should be feasible without considerable penalty even westbound. With a more or less considerable penalty, even New Zealand would be feasible from HEL.

So, instead of travelling via LHR or LGW, one would travel from any European airport to HEL, change airplanes there to an A345, and go then non-stop to any place in Australia.

Instead of, first, travelling to London, to change there to a 74? and go from LHR to any place in Australia with a stop in, e.g., Singapore or Hong Kong, one would use Helsinki instead of London as hub and avoid the landing in SIN, or HKG.

Why does it not happen?

Well, one can do the same thing replacing HEL with, e.g., DXB. While the total travelled distance LHR-DXB-SYD is longer by 271 nautical miles, only, than the total travelled distance LHR-HEL-SYD, using DXB as a hub avoids an UHL. DXB-SYD is by 6500nm, only, while HEL-SYD is by 8202nm.


On the other hand:
An airline well equipped with A319s, A320s and A321s could easily serve a lot of even minor European cities in order to provide access to the UHL flight to Australia in HEL. Technically, this would be much more difficult with DXB as hub, since the distances from Europe to DXB are so much longer then from Europe to HEL. HEL, from this point of view, would be a better hub. IF, and that's why this wouldn't work either, there would really be a demand from a lot of minor european places to go to Australia. This demand might more or less be concentrated in the UK - please correct me, if I am wrong.

Best wishes,

Ferroviarius


User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13433 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12614 times:
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Quoting PHXA340 (Reply 1):
http://www.planespotters.net/Product...ist/Airbus/A340/A340-500/index.php

Gives a good idea , it says only 7 are stored.

Are not the Thai A345 being stored? In other words, 32% of the A340-500s built are already out of service before they are even one decade old.

Thanks for the link. I didn't realize 4 were in the hands of Airbus.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12186 times:
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Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 8):
Since the 345 is not ETOPS hampered, however, technically, I think - please, correct me - it would be feasible to make "one change airplane" travels from the entire Europe, specifically from the UK, to any place in Australia by using HEL as a hub. HEL-SYD is 8202 nautical miles according to the great circle mapper and should be feasible without considerable penalty even westbound. With a more or less considerable penalty, even New Zealand would be feasible from HEL.

It already is, fly EK from 30 European airports to over 100 destinations globally.

The A345 has a range of 8,670 NM, giving you a margin of 400 NM. I think that unless you had the HGW (High gross weight) A345 you'd struggle to do that regularly non-stop, especially westbound without a significant weight penalty.

As mentioned previously, the prohibitive cost of flying ULH rules it out on any flight legs were a reasonable one-stop alternative is possible. There are only 16 HGW A345s sold, with Thai and Airk being the only operators (IIRC Thai have grounded theirs).

Regardless, a 16+ hour flight time would start to become very uncomfortable, even in J/F. I can't see it happening on any aircraft type.

Sandyb123

[Edited 2012-05-07 09:39:25]


Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10811 times:

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 10):
There are only 16 HGW A345s sold, with Thai and Airk being the only operators (IIRC Thai have grounded theirs).

How could you forget Singapore Etihad and Emirates ? tut tut !

Emirates 10
Etihad 4
QATAR Amiri Flight 1
Air Canada 2 - leased to TAM, now stored
Thai 5 - recently parked with LAX-BKK ending
Kingfisher 5 ntu, 2 went to Arik Air /HiFly
Algerian Govt 1
Kuwaiti Govt 2
Singapore 5

So 35 built, 3 have yet to enter service having been built for Kingfisher.
Stored total is 11 from 35 built comprising Thai + TAM + Algerian Govt + three unsold.

[Edited 2012-05-07 11:00:48]

User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10415 times:
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Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
How could you forget Singapore Etihad and Emirates ? tut tut !

Yeah, but I was talking about the HGW version as per

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 10):
There are only 16 HGW A345s sold

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10181 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
How could you forget Singapore Etihad and Emirates ? tut tut !

Sandyb123 was only talking about the HGW version (which, iirc, many airlines were not happy about it becoming standard), not total A345s sold.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9940 times:

Ahhh apologies to Sandy! That'll be A340-542 as opposed to A340-541 then?

In that case the only ones I can see were the five Kingfisher models, 7T-VPP and 9K-GBA / B for Kuwait which makes eight. The Thai A340-500s are ' 541s.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9460 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 14):
Ahhh apologies to Sandy! That'll be A340-542 as opposed to A340-541 then?

Apparently there were 2 A340-541HGW built, one for Thai (their last A345) and the Tunisian plane.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7676 times:

With the A340, the HGW was suffxed with a 'X'. The -541/542 refers to the engine only?

User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7747 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7350 times:

Is PT-MSN still at MLA?.

User currently offlineIndependence76 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6760 times:

Wouldn't these be good temporary purchases for SWISS?


"In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes." - John Ruskin
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6756 times:

I suggested that in the thread but someone pointed out they are looking for a capacity increase, something the A345 doesn't really offer.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31240 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6512 times:
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Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
I suggested that in the thread but someone pointed out they are looking for a capacity increase, something the A345 doesn't really offer.

It is a larger plane, but only by about 10%. Swiss would be more interested in TG's A340-600s, but those are not expected to become available until 2015 (per TG's latest fleet plan, which has them exiting between 2015 and 2017).


User currently offlinecorernagh14 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

It is a larger plane, but only by about 10%. Swiss would be more interested in TG's A340-600s, but those are not expected to become available until 2015 (per TG's latest fleet plan, which has them exiting between 2015 and 2017).

How many of these A340 -500/600 aircraft do we think will be in active airline service - daily? - from 2022 ? i.e within 20 years of the programs's first deliveries . Interesting to look and consider this with the high concentration in certain airlines and their fleet plans . Indeed are more China Eastern deals (10 a/c to be returned to Airbus and Boeing) probable in the coming years - or was the state interest the significant factor there?

The A340500/600 are technically beyond a credible freighter conversion and I can't see charter airlines considering these as viable aircraft types for their routes .......... if this is accurate even if sold for virtually nothing ($30m for some recently) where are these aircraft going by FY2022?? All views . thoughts welcome


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5420 times:

If the range was just a fraction greater they might have become of interest for Virgin Australia to operate Perth-London non-stop.

Qantas is only interested in SYD-LHR non-stop, but of course Perth is where the money is earned and where the people with high disposable incomes in Australia now reside.

But the range is just slightly too low for this route.


User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5399 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
Thai 5

Thai 4 I think, plus 6 A346s.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 10):

Regardless, a 16+ hour flight time would start to become very uncomfortable, even in J/F. I can't see it happening on any aircraft type.

Know an investment banker in YOW who does YOW-EWR-SIN every month. 22 days in SIN and 8/9 in YOW. He says the 19 hr haul from EWR to SIN is unbelievably tedious. Made bearable by sleeping pills.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
25 Ben175 : I've flown SIN-EWR, EWR-SIN and LAX-SIN and they've been the 3 best flights I have ever had. Incredible service and incredible product onboard an inc
26 mcg : What is the scrap value of an A340-500?
27 Post contains images Stitch : Whatever a scrapper is willing to pay. Market value for a 2003 delivery is around $41 million, but based on reports, nobody is willing to pay that.
28 Post contains images anfromme : I just realised that I haven't been keeping up with A340-500 fleet movements enough in the last couple of years. Didn't know that even TAM ones were r
29 Post contains links Devilfish : These may give us a rough idea..... http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_cost_price_for_airbus_A340 Quote: "How much does used airbus a340 cost? Abo
30 connies4ever : On, certainly SQ pay great attention to detail for their in-flight service on their ULH flights, EWR-SIN is all-J (IIRC 100 seats on the 345). It's j
31 Post contains images Stitch : Logically, SQ was never going to do that. They can't sell Economy seats on those missions so the ability of the 777-200LR to carry more Economy passe
32 mcg : I'm curious about this because so many seem to end up parked. If the operators don't want them, it would be logical that they would be scrapped. The
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