LAX888 From Singapore, joined Oct 2010, 279 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12584 times:
I have a question regarding the route SIN-KUL v.v. Currently MH, SQ, MI, AK, JQ and Tiger Airways fly the route to KUL and FY to SZB. Therefore there are a ton of flights a day between these two cities.
MH, SQ and MI have a code-share agreement and SQ has transferred a lot of flights to MI in the last few years. However they still keep 3-4 flights themselves which I find odd, as usually either SQ or MI operate the flights to a destination and there is no mix except for one destination in India if I remember correctly.
Is there really enough demand that SQ continues to fly the route with their own planes? I know they use their smallest plane the A333 but that are still almost 300 seats they have to sell for one flight.
My only explanation is that these flights are timed to connect to other SQ flights. I was on an SQ A333 in March and the flight was less than half full. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be a pity if SQ would not serve KUL anymore as that is probably the most historical route of SQ.
Also how is the market in general for this route? Are the airlines all still making money since the route was opened up to other carriers? Prices are so low now for flights between those two cities. I feel that FY in particular is stealing quite some business as they offer a good opportunity by offering SZB instead of KUL. However as they only fly the ATR 72 I am not sure if that really has a significant impact on that route.
qf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12276 times:
I don't know much about the route, but it seems to me that it's important for SQ to maintain a presence in KUL if they want to continue to capture part of that market for their long haul (and regional) services. It's also a good route for fleet efficiency, so they might as well run quick hops between long haul/regional services.
SW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6393 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12171 times:
Like qf002 mentions, not sure this is true, but what about the idea that the plane would otherwise just sit idle on the ground in Singapore? They may have done the math to figure out that, even with the costs, KUL brings in enough money that it justifies using the a/c there in between longer flights rather than just having it sit on the ground in Singapore.
smbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12173 times:
I have flown from FRA to KUL in March and the flights SIN-KUL and KUL-SIN was perfectly scheduled for connections from/to FRA. SQ operated with A330, I was on economy SIN-KUL (around 80% LF) and business on KUL-SIN (100% full). It looked, that the biggest part of the passengers were not connecting but O-D traffic.
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1823 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11006 times:
Quoting qf002 (Reply 2): I don't know much about the route, but it seems to me that it's important for SQ to maintain a presence in KUL if they want to continue to capture part of that market for their long haul (and regional) services.
This is conjecture, but I assume this is a major consideration with regard to product. Sure, they could farm all the flying out to MI, but I imagine they want their own premium product on at least some of the flights to better compete with MH on long haul business to/from KUL. Add in that there is a significant O&D market between the two cities and it probably makes sense to have both the greater capacity and premium product.
ordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8495 times:
SQ and MH probably get the lions share of high end business traffic from their respective home cities. The tourists and VFR people are probably on those LCCs that do this route. If you get enough business traffic you can do fine. I can also see it as an issue of just keeping those birds in the air.
col From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2156 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8434 times:
I also fly the route regularly. Last Saturday i did 2030 flight, I will be on the early morning flight on Friday this week, then again on Friday 2030 flight for connection to MAN, about 8 hrs at home. The 330 is used for connection and runs a high LF. I always seem to get fairly full flight but good old KF Gold helps to keep the seat empty next to me.
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7650 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6647 times:
Quoting dairy (Reply 13):
SQ has not any smaller aircraft than the A333 to serve this route!!!
SQ's A333s have 30 J seats and 255 Y seats (I believe it is the exact same configuration of the 772ERs nowadays). Did SQ get rid of its non-ER 772s? I think they used to have 772s with 28 J seats and 228 Y seats.
initious From Singapore, joined Dec 2008, 1071 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6587 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 20): Did SQ get rid of its non-ER 772s? I think they used to have 772s with 28 J seats and 228 Y seats.
Sorry I can't stop myself from doing this but SQ doesn't have non-ER 772s. The "777-200s" are 77Es with derated engines and they use 777-200 for internal scheduling purposes to segregate the 9V-SV* series which flies the long haul routes. They are configured 38J/226Y in the new layout and has a total of 266 seats.
infinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 695 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6138 times:
SIN-KUL is one of the busiest routes in the world.
To us, it is practically a domestic flight (technically, it was a domestic flight)
It beats me too. Despite the likes of Tiger and Airasia offering S$50 (US$45) tickets all year around, SQ and MH flights are still doing pretty well on this 30-minute route.
On an SQ flight last year, the cabin was 70% full in Y and about 50% in J. But then that is only one SQ flight on this route so that could be statistically polarised.
Well as Pe@rson point out above, the capacity has dropped a lot for SQ and MI on this route. My guess is apart from corporate pax there are Singaporeans travelling MH and Malaysians travelling SQ who'd take this as a connecting flight.
And for the pax in J, don't underestimate the wealthy in this region! On a similar route, SIN-CGK, a 1hr 20minute flight, SQ still operates a 3-class configuration. There are lots of wealthy Indonesians who'd pay for and fly nothing but F on SQ.
9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 728 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5931 times:
Quoting infinit (Reply 23): It beats me too. Despite the likes of Tiger and Airasia offering S$50 (US$45) tickets all year around, SQ and MH flights are still doing pretty well on this 30-minute route.
I think a key factor is SQ's flexibility when it comes to ticket options, which are offer far more generous conditions than the LCCs. This is probably a key factor when it comes to business traffic between this city pairing.
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
: Yes I am also surprised as both SQ/MI and MH still have at least 7-8 flights a day in both directions. I think in the past it was not much more but t
: Reading the thread title alone I thaught, all (major) Asian airlines use widebody aircraft on relatively short flights too and I was always amazed at
: That might be so, however, consider this. Few passengers will buy food on board the AK flight, thus the addition to crew workload is minimal. If SQ w
: Exactly. I think doing a full hot meal service in 30minutes is not possible. As it is, the SQ boys and girls run up and down trying to get a drink to
: They should see how Qantas does a sandwich and full bar service on a 25min hop from Sydney-Canberra during dinner time on an almost full B738 flight
: You'd be surprised how many people do preorder a meal, even for this short flight. Even on domestic flights which are also around the same time I hav
: SQ runs three flights per day, which are clearly timed for the local business market and international conencting markets. i fly to KUL with SQ regula
: Just got off SQ106 A333. As per usual full with all the connections. Flight time is normally 40 to 45mins, longer legs are on the KUL-SIN due to traff
: Yes, sadly cost cutting is noticeable on SQ, though not as bad at some other airlines. On my recent SQ flight from LHR-SIN, the food containers in Y
: Dummy bookings will show that SQ throws in this sector on the cheap (relatively...somewhat) for connecting pax originating in North America, Oceania,
: Well I think the reason for this is two fold: On the one hand, airlines like SQ and CX rely a lot on connecting pax, so this sort of works similar to
: Yes the SYD-CBR is amazing how fast they work! I take that flight a lot, and everyone always gets served and the trash picked up. However, recently t
: I shall be on SQ again on this route this Thur and Sat. Will see if they still serve nothing. Then I shall e-mail SQ and ask about it. I will be on t
: I think the fact there is a HUGE ethnic Chinese population in Singapore is why you have so many flights per day between Hong Kong and Singapore--and
: You missed my point entirely. My whole point was how Singapore and Hong Kong are major financial centers and yet they make it work with only 6-7 flig
: Well - Malaysia is thinking about one getting as far as Johor Bahru at the moment, which would probably link to the planned RTS link between the two
: Careful there. Most Singaporeans of all the ethnic groups here tend to identify themselves only as Singaporean and the ethnic Chinese Singaporeans ma
: Flew the 2030 flight last Friday and it was again full with transits, as myself.
: Frequently use the SQ buses for my day trips to KUL and they are usually packed in J.
: Actually, one can argue SQ does have smaller aircraft... via its subsidiary SilkAir. In recent years SilkAir has started operating this route with A3
: At EK the comparable flight is Doha and we do a meal service on this flight, usually lasts around 35-45 minutes. QR does one too, though theirs doesn
: How has the meal/snack service been in J lately?