LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 22978 times:
I understand the DOT as soon as this week will likely announce its decision regarding award of 4 new beyond perimeter slot pairs from DCA.
Since the previous threads are locked, I am starting a new one in anticipation of the award announcements.
In summary the air carrier slot request were as follows:
o Air Canada – 1x DCA-YVR A319
o Alaska Airlines – 1x DCA-PDX B738; 1x DCA-SAN B738
o Frontier Airlines – 1x DCA-COS A319 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o JetBlue – 1x DCA-SJU A320; 1x DCA-AUS E190
o Southwest – 1x DCA-AUS B738 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o Sun Country – 1x DCA-LAS B737
o Virgin America – 2x DCA-SFO A319
The DOT stated criteria for tje award is as follows.
A - Provide air transportation with domestic network benefits beyond the 1,250 mile perimeter
B - Increase competition in one or more markets
C - Not reduce travel options for communities served by small hub airports and medium hub airports within the 1,250 mile perimeter
D - Not result in meaningfully increased travel delays
E - Enhance options for nonstop travel to and from the beyond perimeter airports that will be served
F - Have a positive impact on the overall level of competition in the markets that will be served
G - Produce public benefits, including lower fares, higher capacity, and a variety of service options.
Related and to refresh everyone, 4 beyond perimeter slots were also awarded to incumbent carriers at DCA automatically. The carriers were free to select the markets which they desired to utilize the slots in. Below was their elections:
o American – 1x DCA-LAX B757 – effective Jun 14th
o Delta – 1x DCA-SLC B738/B757 – effective Jun 7th
o United – 1x DCA-SFO B737 – effective May 14th
o US Airways – 1x DCA-SAN A319/A320 – effective June 8th
I'm not sure for example how US Air selection of San Diego will hamper some of the the new entrants request which also asked to link the city in the DOTs eyes. Same with UA/VX in SFO.
Lets see now what the DOT comes up with.
=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 22963 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Air Canada – 1x DCA-YVR A319
o Alaska Airlines – 1x DCA-PDX B738; 1x DCA-SAN B738
o Frontier Airlines – 1x DCA-COS A319 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o JetBlue – 1x DCA-SJU A320; 1x DCA-AUS E190
o Southwest – 1x DCA-AUS B738 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o Sun Country – 1x DCA-LAS B737
o Virgin America – 2x DCA-SFO A319
Purely my guesses :
AC - definitely no. too protectionist.
Alaska - PDX
Frontier - none, and COS is not a crucial destination
B6 - SJU
WN - AUS+SAN
Sun Country - probably not
VX - SFO
JetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1613 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22820 times:
While I agree, I remember reading something a while back that SY was hoping to get this, as it might allow them to play with the timings of the MSP-LAN-DCA service. It seemed as though what they were hoping was that the extra slot would allow them to push back the departure time out of DCA to later in the afternoon to allow a better work day while in DC.
I can't seem to find it online any longer, but it was in an interview with the CEO.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2663 posts, RR: 36 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22773 times:
Will we also see the US-JAN (F9-SDF/WN-OKC) slot award decision this week too?
smoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1224 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 22217 times:
Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 4): Will we also see the US-JAN (F9-SDF/WN-OKC) slot award decision this week too?
That decision should be coming soon as well. In my opinion, the slot should stay with US for DCA-JAN
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 21912 times:
I tried to stage a big rally this weekend, I called it "Occupy Gravelly Point," demanding quick action on these decisions. I made signs that said "Slots Now!" and "Give Us Our Slots!" and my favorites, "I love you a slot!" and "Slots Amore!" Several people joined me and I was just thrilled until I figured out that they weren't A.netters but rather gambling addicts who wanted to tear down Mt. Vernon and build a casino there. We compromised and joined forces to demand slot machines on Sun Country's DCA-LAS outside-the-perimeter flights. Viva revo-slot-cion!!!!!!
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12562 posts, RR: 64 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 21894 times:
I can see VX definitely getting 1X DCASFO service, but not 2X. Just my $0.02...
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2456 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 21518 times:
I think air Canada is the toughest sell but I really could see any of the other routes getting awarded and I wouldn't be too shocked. A case can be made for all cities so The criteria they use will probably decide it. I am gonna go out on a ledge here and predict that AS does not get two additional exemptions though when so many new airlines applied given what they already have
tharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 21053 times:
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 7): I tried to stage a big rally this weekend
Thanks for making me chuckle.
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): D - Not result in meaningfully increased travel delays
How can this criterion be used to separate the different options? I don't understand.
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): C - Not reduce travel options for communities served by small hub airports and medium hub airports within the 1,250 mile perimeter
Again, how can this criterion be used to separate the options? Whether it's B6 to SJU, or AC to YVR, isn't the impact on small/medium hubs within the perimeter the same?
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): E - Enhance options for nonstop travel to and from the beyond perimeter airports that will be served
That would seem to go against SY to LAS or B6 to AUS.
jporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 21031 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): In summary the air carrier slot request were as follows:
o Air Canada – 1x DCA-YVR A319
o Alaska Airlines – 1x DCA-PDX B738; 1x DCA-SAN B738
o Frontier Airlines – 1x DCA-COS A319 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o JetBlue – 1x DCA-SJU A320; 1x DCA-AUS E190
o Southwest – 1x DCA-AUS B738 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o Sun Country – 1x DCA-LAS B737
o Virgin America – 2x DCA-SFO A319
My guesses:
Air Canada: probably not; lack of competition would mean high fares
Alaska: DCA-SAN; not enough competition for PDX-DCA, so fares would be high
Frontier: no: COS is not a big enough airport to justify this service
JetBlue: DCA-AUS, maybe DCA-SJU
Southwest: DCA-AUS-SAN
Sun Country: DCA-LAS
Virgin America: DCA-SFO
kgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 3650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 21010 times:
Quoting jporterfi (Reply 12): Frontier: no: COS is not a big enough airport to justify this service
hatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1452 posts, RR: 15 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 20653 times:
Quoting jporterfi (Reply 12): Alaska: DCA-SAN; not enough competition for PDX-DCA, so fares would be high
There is no competition on some of the perimeter DCA routes so that doesn't exclude the route from being awarded. Two airlines serving PDX-DCA would be overkill. SEA-DCA is still only AS and up until they let AA add DCA-LAX, AS was the only one there too. US is the only airline out of PHX and DL out of SLC for example, so why would PDX need 2 carriers for it to be approved? I would be absolutely shocked if PDX-DCA on AS doesn't get approved. I don't think anyone on this forum has felt that AS won't get it.
texan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4204 posts, RR: 53 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 20617 times:
Quoting jporterfi (Reply 12): Air Canada: probably not; lack of competition would mean high fares
Alaska: DCA-SAN; not enough competition for PDX-DCA, so fares would be high
Frontier: no: COS is not a big enough airport to justify this service
JetBlue: DCA-AUS, maybe DCA-SJU
Southwest: DCA-AUS-SAN
Sun Country: DCA-LAS
Virgin America: DCA-SFO
Alaska asked for DCA-PDX for the first service and only if that service is approved for DCA-SAN. jetBlue did the same: DCA-SJU and only if that service is granted then DCA-AUS. PDX is now the largest unserved market from DCA, if I remember right. I expect it to be approved. Same with B6 DCA-SJU and WN DCA-AUS-SAN. DOT tends to spread out awards when it can, so as much as I'd like AS to get the DCA-SAN-HNL route, I think VX will receive a DCA-SFO authority instead.
Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
kgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 3650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 19924 times:
Quoting texan (Reply 15): PDX is now the largest unserved market from DCA, if I remember right.
Not to quibble, but by metro area -- according to Wikipedia -- it's (1) SFO (2) SAN and (3) PDX -- which doesn't diminish the commercial importance of service to any of those cities.
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 19811 times:
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 16):
Not to quibble, but by metro area -- according to Wikipedia -- it's (1) SFO (2) SAN and (3) PDX -- which doesn't diminish the commercial importance of service to any of those cities.
Ah but to quibble...if you notice he excluded SFO and SAN because they now have service to DCA.
SFO by UA, and SAN by US Airways.
So if PDX is next in line he would be correct to say that PDX is in fact the largest unserved market from DCA.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2162 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 19669 times:
Quoting hatbutton (Reply 14): I would be absolutely shocked if PDX-DCA on AS doesn't get approved. I don't think anyone on this forum has felt that AS won't get it.
I have gone as far to say, this route out of all the slots requested will be assured for AS, I'd be way more than surprised if AS does not get this award.
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
9lflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18735 times:
Mods, I think the title of this thread should be changed. It leads people to believe a dicision has been made rather than being labled as potention decisions.
My opinions do not represent the opinions of my company. They are solely the opinion of the poster.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18689 times:
You might want to double check. What I can see is DCA-SEA-HNL.
Would be illegal for them to market a flight which they do not hold authority for. Go ask AirTran which accidentally published and sold some MDW-CUN tickets prior to gaining the authority from the DOT.
Quoting 9lflyguy (Reply 20): Mods, I think the title of this thread should be changed. It leads people to believe a dicision has been made rather than being labled as potention decisions.
The decision is due out any day..... that is what this discussion topic is about as explained in opening thread.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Rookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 305 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18625 times:
I just went to Alaska's website. The flight is not listed. But I can assure you that what was ticketed today was Alaska DCA-SAN-HNL round trip direct...one flight number and no plane changes. Whether AS will be in trouble for this is another matter entirely.
HiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 607 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18469 times:
Just found it as well.....Flight 897 DCA-SAN-HNL starts service on August 13th. Seems that AS knows something the rest of us don't? Did a search for DCA-PDX....nothing. Could it be that AS was awarded SAN and NOT awarded PDX?
hatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1452 posts, RR: 15 Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18620 times:
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 24): Just found it as well.....Flight 897 DCA-SAN-HNL starts service on August 13th.
Huh? I don't see it. I went and searched those same days and all I see are one stops through SEA. Can someone take a screen shot?
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12562 posts, RR: 64 Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18952 times:
Quoting hatbutton (Reply 26): Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 24):Just found it as well.....Flight 897 DCA-SAN-HNL starts service on August 13th.
Huh? I don't see it. I went and searched those same days and all I see are one stops through SEA. Can someone take a screen shot?
Please let me know ASAP so I can let the AS.com guys know (assuming this was an error).
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18823 times:
Quoting texan (Reply 15): Alaska asked for DCA-PDX for the first service and only if that service is approved for DCA-SAN. jetBlue did the same: DCA-SJU and only if that service is granted then DCA-AUS
Not quite. You are correct about B6's bid (first SJU, and only if that is approved, then they would like AUS.) You are incorrect about AS's application: PDX was listed first ("and foremost") but not as a necessity for them to accept SAN. Here's a quote from AS's original application:
Quote: Alaska Airlines, Inc. (“Alaska”) proposes to operate the first nonstop flights between Reagan Washington National Airport (“DCA”) and Portland (“PDX”), Alaska’s number one priority, and between DCA and San Diego (“SAN”). Alaska proposes one daily B-737-800 roundtrip flight to each city and therefore requests the allocation of four slots.
I am pretty confident that AS would be happy to get either, but thrilled to get both!
Quoting Rookinla (Reply 19): AS has loaded DCA-SAN-HNL in the GDS. I booked it for a family of six today.
Perhaps you could check the times of the flights; we know what AS's proposed fligth schedule is for the service so that should help with this quandry.
I had hoped we would have gotten a decision from the DOT last week but I think May 14 -- another week -- is pretty much the deadline.
I'm not changing my prediction: AS gets both PDX and SAN, WN gets AUS, and VX gets their "second" SFO choice (the morning departure from DCA turning to the afternoon SFO-Reagan flight.)
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 24): Just found it as well.....Flight 897 DCA-SAN-HNL starts service on August 13th. Seems that AS knows something the rest of us don't?
Very interesting! I've just been looking and couldn't find anything.... (Can anyone find times for "flight 897"?)
Flight 896 HNL-DCA
HNL 9:35 PM
SAN 6:10 AM (next day)
SAN 7:10 AM
DCA 3:10 PM
Just to clarify: this info is from where? Is this from the application or from AS's DRS? Because these ARE the times from the application but there was no flight number there! Hmmmmmmm........
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12562 posts, RR: 64 Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18722 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 31): Just to clarify: this info is from where? Is this from the application or from AS's DRS? Because these ARE the times from the application but there was no flight number there! Hmmmmmmm........
And I'm not finding this on AS.com...
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
rgreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18685 times:
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32): Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
Just to clarify: this info is from where? Is this from the application or from AS's DRS? Because these ARE the times from the application but there was no flight number there! Hmmmmmmm........
And I'm not finding this on AS.com...
Sent you a message that will explain how I was able to find it.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2456 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 18347 times:
At least we have some drama pre announcement adds some excitement
If you were allowed to book I'm guessing it's just a mistake they can't sell seats to a route they haven't been awarded yet. They probably had the tech guys do some work and never meant to release that or something? For the record I tried everything here and nothing so maybe some temporary glitch showed that and they have it pre made ready to release and sell seats if they get the exemption.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12562 posts, RR: 64 Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 18320 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 35): Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):And I'm not finding this on AS.com...
It's bookable on Travelocity, so it's in SABRE.
AS.com doesn't pull from SABRE, but ITA.
However I did access it in native SABRE and you're correct, it does appear to be loaded.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17675 times:
Where is DCA going to fit Virgin America or any new carriers? Can WN share with AirTran at this point? Last time I saw A it was getting crowded...
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
Don't count out COS. When I was a defense contractor working in the D.C. area I had to travel to COS three or four times per year on various jobs. There are a ton of influential people in D.C. who would love to have that nonstop. I think it would find a market. And, the fact that it continues on to SAN (another military-heavy city) would even expand the potential market.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16802 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 35): It's bookable on Travelocity, so it's in SABRE.
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36): However I did access it in native SABRE and you're correct, it does appear to be loaded.
Wow, the plot is thickening like grandma's homemade gravy! Whether an inadvertent mistake, a leak, or a really bad joke, something seems to be going on here.
This is certainly the new age of instant access, transparency, and leaks! The DOT better OFFICIALLY announce their decision in the case pretty soon or it might not need to bother... Amazing.
klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 3 Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16109 times:
Quoting BryanG (Reply 39):
Don't count out COS. When I was a defense contractor working in the D.C. area I had to travel to COS three or four times per year on various jobs. There are a ton of influential people in D.C. who would love to have that nonstop. I think it would find a market. And, the fact that it continues on to SAN (another military-heavy city) would even expand the potential market.
COS is not a huge market to DCA, but it could work because of all the defense related interests in the "Springs."
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12562 posts, RR: 64 Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15693 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 40): Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):
However I did access it in native SABRE and you're correct, it does appear to be loaded.
Wow, the plot is thickening like grandma's homemade gravy! Whether an inadvertent mistake, a leak, or a really bad joke, something seems to be going on here.
I passed it on to our CRC folks and they've pulled it. File it under "agent error," most likely.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15451 times:
If they don't announce these slots soon I'm going to set myself on fire. Maybe. Probably not. Absolutely not, really, I would never do anything so melodramatic but I very much want to know who gets what, the suspense is killing me!!!!!!!! (Plus I'm planning a trip to SAN in the fall and I want to know if I'll be able to fly AS non-stop!!!)
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
smoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1224 posts, RR: 12 Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15153 times:
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 43): (Plus I'm planning a trip to SAN in the fall and I want to know if I'll be able to fly AS non-stop!!!)
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14959 times:
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 44): Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 43):
(Plus I'm planning a trip to SAN in the fall and I want to know if I'll be able to fly AS non-stop!!!)
You can fly DCA-SAN nonstop on US....
Right, but I want to fly Alaska.
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
I can tell you 'DC9 that a lot of people feel the same way!
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 42): I passed it on to our CRC folks and they've pulled it. File it under "agent error," most likely.
Somebody just wanted to see how it looked "live" and didn't stop in time! At least I'm encouraged by the fact that flight numbers are already assigned.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2162 posts, RR: 4 Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 14136 times:
Ok, who has the pool going to see who is right with all 4 correctly picked. I think we can have a upgrade to First Class membership as a grand prize.
My four are as follows:
AS-PDX, SAN, B6-SJU, WN-AUS. I would have put VX-SFO, but I don't think one departure a day would be a big enough presence. I also thought about F9 to COS, and I think that F9 is too weak of a carrier to award a slot to, when it's possible they could finally fold if they don't find some plan they can stick to profitably, if that happened, where would that slot go?
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13932 times:
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 51): The DOT has to eliminate two applications from what I understand. My guess would be AC YVR and B6 AUS
Not sure I follow, more than two proposals will have to be cut
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6049 posts, RR: 25 Reply 54, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13879 times:
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 50): I would have put VX-SFO, but I don't think one departure a day would be a big enough presence.
That's not a criteria the DOT uses when awarding slots, so it doesn't matter.
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 50): I also thought about F9 to COS, and I think that F9 is too weak of a carrier to award a slot to, when it's possible they could finally fold if they don't find some plan they can stick to profitably, if that happened, where would that slot go?
Again, not a criteria the DOT uses. And if F9 did fail, the slot would just get rebid....as many other slots have been in the past.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 55, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13906 times:
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 52): AS's timing for SAN-DCA is nearly identical to WN's SAN-BWI.
One of WN's SAN-BWI flights... WN's times are always changing so on the next schedule, they could be an hour or more different.. I think a lot of the pax on the WN flights at these times are connectors so local fares to DC might not be to large a factor.
In fact, UA has SAN-IAD flights at very similar times as well. One thing this shows me is that AS has chosen excellent (peak) times for their proposed SAN-DCA-SAN service. (And AS's times were also selected partly based on the timing of the SAN-HNL-SAN tag-ons.)
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 53): Not sure I follow, more than two proposals will have to be cut.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 56, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13716 times:
This gives the DOT exactly what the proposal asks for Add to that the military connections to the Pentagon and each military service HQ in D.C. As an added bonus you also have the Olympic training center in the Springs.
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 42): I passed it on to our CRC folks and they've pulled it. File it under "agent error," most likely.
An over zealous programmer perhaps!
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 58, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13463 times:
quote=usflyguy,reply=57][/quote
Does WN offer service to all of these locations from AUS?
My understanding of the rule leads me to believe qualifying cities must be flown from the slot airport or AUS in WN case and as stated above must
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): A - Provide air transportation with domestic network benefits beyond the 1,250 mile perimeter
In your list DAL and HOU using statute miles does not meet the 1250 requirement from DCA. As airframes can be referred to ships they may squeak by using the nautical miles calculation. HRL is not loaded in my airport distance calculator. May options already exist between DCA to the greater Dallas and Houston area. I would go as far as saying the FAA intent in their use of the word "beyond" is to open westward destinations beyond the 1250 mile criteria. I'm not convinced DCA-AUS-DAL for example (fly West only to go East) meets the definition of beyond. With that said I learned along time ago to never say never. In a combined WN/FL I also can't help but to think how the routes FL flies from DCA may enter the equation.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
kgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 3650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 59, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13446 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 55): Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 52):
AS's timing for SAN-DCA is nearly identical to WN's SAN-BWI.
One of WN's SAN-BWI flights... WN's times are always changing so on the next schedule, they could be an hour or more different.. I think a lot of the pax on the WN flights at these times are connectors so local fares to DC might not be to large a factor.
In fact, UA has SAN-IAD flights at very similar times as well.
And all three departing within yards of each other in the same terminal. It's funny how it all turned out.
SAN, DEN, PHX, LAX and SEA all have nonstop service from DCA and many predict PDX will as well, leaving COS as the only "new" city via F9's proposed service.
Yes, WN serves all of those destinations non-stop from AUS.
As a side note, COS-DEN isn't exactly a west bound flight. And DCA-DEN already has non-stop service and is shorter in distance than DCA-COS.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else, any company or any un
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6364 posts, RR: 34 Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13423 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 58): Does WN offer service to all of these locations from AUS?
Yes.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56): F9 proposal opens SAN, DEN, PHX, PDX LAX and SEA from COS.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 58): May options already exist between DCA to the greater Dallas and Houston area.
Of course, there already exist non-stop options from DCA to DEN, PHX, LAX & SEA. US will add DCA-SAN and AS has proposed DCA-PDX. Also, given the current schedule at COS, eastbound connections will only work from PHX and DEN.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56): Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
B - Increase competition in one or more markets
Referring back to the original criteria, the only application I see which meets this criteria is F9.
Most of the applications meet that criterion. VX will have connections at SFO to SEA/SAN/LAX/PDX. AS would have connections at PDX to several markets in WA/OR/CA/HI/AK. WN has the aforementioned markets from AUS.
kgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 3650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13069 times:
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 38):
Where is DCA going to fit Virgin America or any new carriers? Can WN share with AirTran at this point? Last time I saw A it was getting crowded...
The old CO gates in that weird B Concourse sideways-extension are getting emptier and emptier as UA learns how to turn planes faster at its C Concourse gates. There's probably room for both SY and VX there.
CODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2167 posts, RR: 8 Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12969 times:
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 62): The old CO gates in that weird B Concourse sideways-extension are getting emptier and emptier as UA learns how to turn planes faster at its C Concourse gates. There's probably room for both SY and VX there.
I think UA will be staying in this area, as the former Presidents Club is slated to be expanded and renovated to be the only United Club at the airport.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 64, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12952 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 61): Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 44):You can fly DCA-SAN nonstop on US...
You can pull your fingernails out with pliers, too -- and that would probably be more pleasurable.
Now, now, US isn't NK.....yet.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 63): I think UA will be staying in this area, as the former Presidents Club is slated to be expanded and renovated to be the only United Club at the airport.
Is that confirmed? I've heard a lot about how they will be staying there, but I wasn't sure if there was an official decision yet.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12593 times:
The complaint is not written very well. It seems to me if someone finds it necessary to officially whine to the DOT they would proof their their own document. Also the slot is SAN-DCA not HNL-DCA. The HNL segment as I understand it an add-on.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 68, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12523 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 63): I think UA will be staying in this area, as the former Presidents Club is slated to be expanded and renovated to be the only United Club at the airport.
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 64): Is that confirmed? I've heard a lot about how they will be staying there, but I wasn't sure if there was an official decision yet.
I hate that part of the airport and that security line. United operated a LOT more flights than Continental did, and that area is so cramped. I guess with DL pulling way down, that can be a better situation.
I've never been in the President's Club there but I liked the current United Club on the Mezz.
I don't know why they would want to shove the world's largest airline into the back corner of a hallway.
All I can say is I hope this doesn't affect the DOT's decision (as in, they WERE going to award AS the route but now they won't?)
As was pointed out by Gent':
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 67): ...the slot is SAN-DCA not HNL-DCA. The HNL segment as I understand it an add-on.
I too wonder if the local segments were for sale as well -- DCA-SAN and the new times on the SAN-HNL segments? If not, and the only segment offered for sale was the thru segments (DCA-HNL-DCA), maybe that's slightly "less awful"... Also, the fact that the flights were apparently never offered on AS's site itself might increase the probablility that it was some sort of forgiveable mistake. I would bet (and sincerely hope) this will not be a big deal and cause any problems.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 61): You can pull your fingernails out with pliers, too -- and that would probably be more pleasurable
Looks like we might have another vote for the AS service between DC and SAN?!
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1427 posts, RR: 9 Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12253 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 69): All I can say is I hope this doesn't affect the DOT's decision (as in, they WERE going to award AS the route but now they won't?)
I wouldn't worry about that - it didn't stop DOT from awarding FL/WN the CHI-CUN authority.
CODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2167 posts, RR: 8 Reply 72, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12240 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 68):
I hate that part of the airport and that security line. United operated a LOT more flights than Continental did, and that area is so cramped. I guess with DL pulling way down, that can be a better situation.
I've never been in the President's Club there but I liked the current United Club on the Mezz.
As it stands right now, sCO actually has more flights out of DCA than sUA. Tomorrow, for example
8x EWR
8x IAH
5x CLE
16x ORD
1x DEN
DCA-SFO will be a wash, replacing one of the DCA-ORD frequencies. sUA has more capacity out of DCA, though.
The old Presidents Club at DCA is one of the best in the system, really a unique space. Spectacular views. Definitely worth checking out, great staff too.
So I cheated a little bit and went into what I was really dreaming for a couple of routes!
When looking though SunCountry and Alaska will still get routes from LasVegas and Portland. US Airways already has SanDiego, but I will go with someone out of SanFrancisco.
Colorado Springs do not forget there is the Air Force Academy in which who knows how big of a role that is playing in the mind of F9? To me though that seems to be more of a spring/summer seasonal route more or less in the overall end.
To me that fourth route will come out of California but I would prefer someone like Oakland or Ontario to get it and not one of the three really big major airports. I know that won't happen but it would be nice if it did!
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 74, posted (1 year 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11716 times:
Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 70): Right, but the only bookable option in SABRE was apparently HNL-DCA with the stop in SAN
Quoting SANFan (Reply 69): I too wonder if the local segments were for sale as well -- DCA-SAN and the new times on the SAN-HNL segments? If not, and the only segment offered for sale was the thru segments (DCA-HNL-DCA), maybe that's slightly "less awful"...
Circuitous routing perhaps DCA-SEA-SAN-HNL or DCA-SEA-HNL provided the existing schedule allows it to be done in a single day.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 75, posted (1 year 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11517 times:
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 72): The old Presidents Club at DCA is one of the best in the system, really a unique space. Spectacular views. Definitely worth checking out, great staff too.
I'll pop in there.... I'm planning to give that SFO-DCA a try if I can get a seat sometime that works.
But what about that gate space.... that's a face even a mother can't love.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 76, posted (1 year 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11317 times:
The citizen letter to the DOT on its own wont change much, however I would strongly suggest Alaska notify the department of the error itself, and provide assurances that the flights were pulled, any tickets issued refunded, and its instituting a better process that such mistakes don't occur in the future. Ultimately show respect to the DOT importance AS places in the selection process.
In the case with AirTran, they themselves notified the DOT of the listing error which was caused when what was meant to be dummy flights were built to protect some crew pairings and instead were sent out into the live system allowing for tickets to be sold over a 3-day period. Within 2 days AirTran did a mea-culpa and apologized to the DOT that the flights were incorrectly posted due to an internal snafu.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10838 times:
Well, I guess we go back into "hold" mode on this... I really thought we were going to hear something this week. We unfortunately did have a bit of drama which I sincerely hope does not have any effect on the eventual decision.
The Bill was signed on Feb 14 so the 90-day deadline for resolution should be Monday, 5/14. But I don't suppose that sort of end-date is all that meaningful in DC.
Anyway, see you all again next week (?) right here and we'll again take up the vigil.
rgreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 78, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10629 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 77): Well, I guess we go back into "hold" mode on this... I really thought we were going to hear something this week. We unfortunately did have a bit of drama which I sincerely hope does not have any effect on the eventual decision.
The Bill was signed on Feb 14 so the 90-day deadline for resolution should be Monday, 5/14. But I don't suppose that sort of end-date is all that meaningful in DC.
Anyway, see you all again next week (?) right here and we'll again take up the vigil.
bb
Who says this can't happen still today? Wouldn't they potentially wait until the end of the day to announce?
boberito6589 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10543 times:
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 64): Quoting CODC10 (Reply 63):
I think UA will be staying in this area, as the former Presidents Club is slated to be expanded and renovated to be the only United Club at the airport.
Is that confirmed? I've heard a lot about how they will be staying there, but I wasn't sure if there was an official decision yet.
US said today that on July 11 US will pick up gates 27,29, and 31. The United Club on the Center Pier will also be rebranded as US Airways Club
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 81, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9559 times:
Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 79): US said today that on July 11 US will pick up gates 27,29, and 31. The United Club on the Center Pier will also be rebranded as US Airways Club
Fair enough. I guess that settles it! I was surprised it took so long to see something formally announced on that - all I had seen was talk on here about it.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 83, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9457 times:
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1427 posts, RR: 9 Reply 86, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9202 times:
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 85): Can we infer that Alaska did NOT get SAN? Seems like they would have announced both but who knows...
I wouldn't say we can draw that conclusion - the source is Portland-based and does not mention any of the other three slots, so they may well have only announced their hometown slot regardless.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9138 times:
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 85): Can we infer that Alaska did NOT get SAN? Seems like they would have announced both but who knows...
The news comes from the DC office of an Oregon Senator so that's all that's reported here -- all this article is interested in. I am trying hard to find more news from the DOT but not having any luck...
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9103 times:
Looks like Cantwell's office jumped the gun here ... the fact that they have been told suggests the Order is probably about to become public ...
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 89, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9055 times:
A Senatorial nudge from Oregon I suppose. As unilateral and bilateral decisions go no other carrier that I'm aware of was competing for PDX as a origin point; whereas multiple carriers have expressed interest at SAN.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 90, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8992 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 87): I am trying hard to find more news from the DOT but not having any luck...
I signed up for email alerts from regulations.gov for this DCA slot decision. I have not received any updates as of yet. With that said DOT may notify only after COB (Close of Business) daily.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 91, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8891 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 90): I signed up for email alerts from regulations.gov for this DCA slot decision. I have not received any updates as of yet. With that said DOT may notify only after COB (Close of Business) daily
I keep checking Docket 29 for any updates but then I don't know if anything would normally show up there.
I trust you, or someone, will let us know when word is received. It would be very much appreciated as I for one am sitting here unable to do much of anything until I learn more!!!!
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 92, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9115 times:
DOT Selects Four Cities to Receive New Nonstop Service to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood today announced that new nonstop flights will be available to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport from four cities that, because of distance, had earlier been ineligible for nonstop service.
The U.S. Department of Transportation selected Alaska Airlines for service to Portland, Ore.; JetBlue Airways for San Juan, Puerto Rico; Southwest Airlines for Austin, Texas; and Virgin America for San Francisco. This is Virgin America’s first service at Reagan National. The other carriers currently have only limited service at the airport. Each city will receive one new nonstop roundtrip per day.
“These new flights will provide convenient nonstop service to our nation’s capital for travelers from four major cities,” Secretary LaHood said. “The flights will increase competition for airlines serving Washington, which can lead to lower fares for consumers.”
In its order, the Department said the proposals from the four carriers selected merit award under the statute.
The new services were made available by the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, signed by President Obama on Feb. 14. The law created eight daily slot exemptions at Reagan National for airlines with little or no service at the airport to serve cities farther than 1,250 miles from Washington. Airlines cannot fly between Reagan National and cities beyond this limit unless Congress passes a law to authorize it. A slot, or slot exemption, is the right to take off or land at an airport where operations are limited. Two slots are needed for a round-trip flight, and the law provided for four new round trips.
Unlike traditional slots, slot exemptions cannot be transferred, except through an air carrier merger or acquisition, and the flights can be operated only on routes proposed by the carriers and approved by the Department.
The new law also allowed four large carriers already serving Reagan National to exchange a total of eight slots for flights within the perimeter for an equal number of slot exemptions to permit nonstop flights beyond the perimeter. As a result, American Airlines will trade one round-trip flight to Dallas-Fort Worth for a flight to Los Angeles, Delta Airlines Lines will trade one round-trip flight to New York LaGuardia Airport for a flight to Salt Lake City, United Airlines will trade one round-trip flight to Chicago O’Hare for a flight to San Francisco, and US Airways will trade one round-trip flight to Dallas-Fort Worth for a flight to San Diego.
Since Congress first created slot exemptions at Reagan National in 2000, the Department has been authorized to award 40 exemptions for beyond-perimeter flights, which have permitted 20 new round-trip operations.
The selection order and carrier applications are available at www.regulations.gov, docket DOT-OST-2012-0029.
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 93, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8899 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 87): The news comes from the DC office of an Oregon Senator so that's all that's reported here -- all this article is interested in.
Thanks SANFan etc for the clarification, makes sense.
Can we start taking bets on how many excess threads will be started beyond this one? (I.e. potential thread titles: "[Individual Airline] gets/does not get [Particular Route]," "What do DCA slot awards and/or today's moon phase mean for AA/US Merger???" or (two weeks from now) "RUMOR: AS - PDX-DCA????" All of these threads will begin with some variation of "Not sure if this has been discussed on here but...")
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 94, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8991 times:
The U.S. Department of Transportation selected Alaska Airlines for service to Portland, Ore.; JetBlue Airways for San Juan, Puerto Rico; Southwest Airlines for Austin, Texas; and Virgin America for San Francisco. This is Virgin America’s first service at Reagan National.
rgreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 95, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8882 times:
Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 94): This is Virgin America’s first service at Reagan National.
While I no doubt guess that Virgin is happy to have this service - it would seem a single daily flight would be quite expensive to operate, when you have no other service from DCA. I wonder if the competition from UA will impact their ability to operate the flight profitably.
threeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0 Reply 97, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8984 times:
So, to summarize:
AS: PDX
VX: SFO (1x)
B6: SJU
WN: AUS
Pretty much what I and many others on here thought it would be.
Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 95): While I no doubt guess that Virgin is happy to have this service - it would seem a single daily flight would be quite expensive to operate, when you have no other service from DCA. I wonder if the competition from UA will impact their ability to operate the flight profitably.
VX doesn't need to spend that much money to operate the DCA station. Airport staff can be outsourced. Gate can be rented. Not much else needed to operate. AS has a lot of 1x daily stations and doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
AC - definitely no. too protectionist.
Alaska - PDX
Frontier - none, and COS is not a crucial destination
B6 - SJU
WN - AUS+SAN
Sun Country - probably not
VX - SFO
Quoting Rookinla (Reply 23): But I can assure you that what was ticketed today was Alaska DCA-SAN-HNL round trip direct...one flight number and no plane changes.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 101, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8416 times:
Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 92): In its order, the Department said the proposals from the four carriers selected merit award under the statute.
Reading between the lines I'd be interested in knowing what criteria defines "merit award" procedures. It sounds like some of the criteria may have been disregarded or set aside in the decision.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2663 posts, RR: 36 Reply 102, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8384 times:
So when can the small market slots be expected to be announced?
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 103, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8383 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 101): Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 92):
In its order, the Department said the proposals from the four carriers selected merit award under the statute.
Reading between the lines I'd be interested in knowing what criteria defines "merit award" procedures. It sounds like some of the criteria may have been disregarded or set aside in the decision.
I think it's saying the proposals merit award, as in they're worthy of award, with merit as verb... a clunky way of saying it, no doubt...
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1427 posts, RR: 9 Reply 106, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8404 times:
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 104): So SJU is deemed superior to Vancouver
This doesn't surprise me at all, San Juan is a part of the USA and the route is to be flown by an American carrier. I think both of those factors likely worked against AC/YVR in trying to compete with all of the other proposals.
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3664 posts, RR: 8 Reply 108, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8217 times:
While in my opinion SAN could have supported more than one flight, I'm positive that governmental support for such disappeared once US opted for DCA-SAN. If US had chosen say, LAX instead of SAN, maybe AS would have gotten both PDX and SAN (who both deserved a flight). Let's just hope that US doesn't switch the SAN flight elsewhere, or SAN will be once again without a DCA flight.
Overall I think the results were fair. I doubt UA is thrilled at VX being accepted but some of those lawmakers might want to try the VX product personally.
rgreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 109, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8170 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 107): Not trying to sound political here, but if it were a US-based carrier bidding YVR, the story might have changed.
I wonder if the fact that SEA was so close played a role in this? Also, does DCA have any type of customs facility? Would YVR pax be required to be cleared prior to departure to DCA?
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 110, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8100 times:
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 104): So SJU is deemed superior to Vancouver.....I thought the Jetblue bid required both AUS and SJU.
I don't think it's a judgment on either city per se... I suspect that if we had been talking about AC vs. several airlines that already had DCA service, AC might have had more of a chance... but the powers-that-be probably couldn't see giving AC another flight at the expense of a U.S. carrier (!) with no presence at DCA... and I suspect if there were two more slots to give out AC would probably have won out over F9 and Sun Country.
(Personally I would rather have seen AC/Vancouver get picked over Virgin America/SFO just because I think it's a bit absurd to shove an entirely new carrier with one daily flight and (due to slot controls) little potential for growth into the already-crowded DCA terminals just to prove some point about having a bunch of airlines there, but that's just me.)
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8137 times:
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 104): So SJU is deemed superior to Vancouver.
When I first saw it I thought AC application for YVR-DCA was unique. In my mind AC application to fly to DCA would be better handled under the U.S. Canada bilateral flying agreements through the Canadian Air Ministry, the DOT and the Department of State.
In that AS already has a slot award between SEA-DCA given YVR three or so hour drive excluding Customs and Border Protection clearance into the U.S. gives western Canada a viable option for travel to the Reagan airport. It also allows for an extra layer of screening as the DHS is concerned.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1427 posts, RR: 9 Reply 112, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7989 times:
Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 109):
I wonder if the fact that SEA was so close played a role in this? Also, does DCA have any type of customs facility? Would YVR pax be required to be cleared prior to departure to DCA?
I doubt SEA's proximity was much of a consideration, it would've been more the fact that the route provided absolutely no connectivity to anywhere in the USA beyond YVR and wasn't served by an American carrier. The route's purpose would have been to serve the not-particularly-large DCA-YVR O&D traffic and provide additional connecting TPAC competition. Particularly with regards to O&D, it's telling that the WAS-YVR market is apparently not large enough to justify any non-stop service to IAD or BWI today, whereas all the other markets applied for do have that.
In terms of DCA, it does not have a customs facility capable of handling commercial flights, but all regularly scheduled transborder flights at YVR are pre-cleared.
mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7945 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 111): In that AS already has a slot award between SEA-DCA given YVR three or so hour drive excluding Customs and Border Protection clearance into the U.S. gives western Canada a viable option for travel to the Reagan airport. It also allows for an extra layer of screening as the DHS is concerned.
Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 109): I wonder if the fact that SEA was so close played a role in this?
Don't think SEA really played a role. By the time you factor in the drive and traffic jam, one would have arrived DC earlier if he did YVR-ORD-DCA than drive to SEA then take AS.
rgreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7832 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 113): Don't think SEA really played a role. By the time you factor in the drive and traffic jam, one would have arrived DC earlier if he did YVR-ORD-DCA than drive to SEA then take AS.
Maybe, but you wouldn't have to pay the international taxes that causes many canadians to drive to BLI when flying to other points in the US (Allegiant, AS, F9 all serve BLI to mostly leisure destinations).
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7860 times:
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 110):
(Personally I would rather have seen AC/Vancouver get picked over Virgin America/SFO just because I think it's a bit absurd to shove an entirely new carrier with one daily flight and (due to slot controls) little potential for growth into the already-crowded DCA terminals just to prove some point about having a bunch of airlines there, but that's just me.)
Absurd or not..Virgin America KNEW that situation would occur if they won the award to fly DCA-SFO. Virgin did not have to apply, they did so knowing they would have at the time limited ability to expand, and DOT acted on it because it met the qualifications. (That is also why VX asked for 2 slots, not one). This is not DOT to blame, but Virgin for "getting themselves in this situation" as you state.
Congratulations to all of the airlines who won, I love these choices and save for SLC, every single city got a new route to DCA and the destinations reached by DCA has expanded. A win for all involved in my opinion.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7732 times:
Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 114): Maybe, but you wouldn't have to pay the international taxes that causes many canadians to drive to BLI when flying to other points in the US (Allegiant, AS, F9 all serve BLI to mostly leisure destinations).
True, but isn't driving to BLI only a third of the time it takes to drive to SEA ?
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7553 times:
So I know the code-sharing issues that exist, but in terms of operations at DCA can WN just use the existing AirTran people/space/etc for their AUS flight?
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7538 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 116): True, but isn't driving to BLI only a third of the time it takes to drive to SEA ?
The mileage between Bellingham and Seattle is 95 miles down I-5 plus an additional 14 miles in that SEATAC sits some 14 miles south of the Seattle city center. We drove from the boarder crossing to the Seattle ferry piers off of Alaskan Way in an hour and twenty minutes. I want to say Vancouver is exactly and hour north of the board crossing.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7500 times:
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 117): So I know the code-sharing issues that exist, but in terms of operations at DCA can WN just use the existing AirTran people/space/etc for their AUS flight?
That is possible, from what I understand Southwest Employees will be working the Intl FL Flights out of SNA since that is not a PMFL station.
I'd imagine FL People may work DCA-AUS but since it's being used by a 737-800 which is WN Metal, it has to be used under WN's CS2 program which right now only WN People know how to use.
It is possible WN may just convert DCA into a WN station especially if they win DCA-OKC also.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7449 times:
Reading through the DOT order here were the pertinent and the persuasive argument for each winner.
Ultimately the DOT found all the options would enhance nonstop options, positively impact competition and produce public benefits with added capacity and service options.
Alaska to PDX
o First nonstop to DCA’s 4th largest O&D market
o AS today has limited ability to serve local PDX market on existing DCA services due very high LF.
o Ability to offer connections to multiple markets in PNW via PDX.
o AS is a limited incumbent at DCA
o AS previous positive impact on competition at DCA
JetBlue to SJU
o Enhance travel options and link DCA with a new region
o To date all beyond perimeter slots have been used to Western US
o JetBlue is an established low-fare carrier offering positive competitive pressure in markets
o Leisure oriented market accrues public benefits as well.
Southwest to AUS
o First state capital nonstop link to DCA
o Enhance competition in a market where 90% of demand served primarily through hubs of incumbent carriers
o DC-AUS has one of the highest local fare markets today.
o Southwest a well established low-fare carrier and is expected to exert competitive pressure for public benefit.
o Solid history of service to a growing market like AUS with beyond connections.
Virgin America to SFO
o New entrant air carrier at DCA
o SFO large market that can support 2 nonstop flights
o VX can enhance travel options
o Positive impact on competition producing public benefits and lower fares.
=
[Edited 2012-05-14 12:08:13]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
chrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1774 posts, RR: 4 Reply 124, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7291 times:
Quoting steex (Reply 112): In terms of DCA, it does not have a customs facility capable of handling commercial flights, but all regularly scheduled transborder flights at YVR are pre-cleared.
Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility. AS found that out the hard way flying YVR-SNA several years ago (before there was a FIS at SNA).
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 126, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7231 times:
Quoting chrisair (Reply 124): Quoting steex (Reply 112):
In terms of DCA, it does not have a customs facility capable of handling commercial flights, but all regularly scheduled transborder flights at YVR are pre-cleared.
Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility. AS found that out the hard way flying YVR-SNA several years ago (before there was a FIS at SNA).
DCA has flights to/from Canada as well as NAS (which might be seasonal, not sure, and I hope I didn't just dream that up or something). At any rate, YVR would have been doable.
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 127, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7276 times:
And the reasons why others were not selected.
Air Canada to YVR
o Smallish local market compared to most other proposals
o Competitive effects not as robust as other markets
o Previous unsuccessful attempts to sustain IAD-YVR service
o Already serves DCA from 3 Canada markets and can connect YVR traffic via
Alaska to SAN
o AS preference for PDX as #1 choice
o Does not offer as much network benefits as AS can via PDX
o New US Airways nonstop to SAN
o Also awarded SWA service with AUS will offer same plane link and fares to SAN
Frontier to COS
o Small size of local market. Smallest of all applicant proposals
o Does not provide claimed network benefits as Frontiers COS “Focus City” has not commenced yet, nor will proposed schedules even connect to a DCA service.
o For beyond SAN service, F9 already connects SAN via DEN and unlikely to offer new low fares.
JetBlue to AUS
o Request by B6 for SJU award first
o AUS does merit slot exemption
o But scale of benefits offered by SWA to AUS is greateter
Sun Country to LAS
o LAS already has a DCA nonstop link
o No beyond LAS network opportunities by SY
Also interesting to note, the DOT made mention that it felt the Virgin America argument for being awarded two slot pair was very compelling, however due to only four-pairs being available the department did not wish to rob any of the other selected markets from gaining the service.
IMO this sets up VX nicely for any future award of additional slots at DCA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 128, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7314 times:
WN award of AUS-DCA brings to the surface another interesting thought. Not considering the merger with FL. WN has stated many times over the years; I believe following their entry into Jackson (JAN) WN corporate mantra did not allow them to serve a market unless they could fly it at least five times a day; and definitely not once a day. I suppose the never say never analogy gets flushed this day.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 129, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7200 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 125): This is ironic to me. UA has barely started their nonstop service and already DOT is saying there's room for two nonstops...
I don't think you mean ironic ... and, seriously, DCA-SFO is a huge market .. not only can it support two flights on two carriers, it could easily support several more nonstop departures from DCA ...
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 130, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7153 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 111): When I first saw it I thought AC application for YVR-DCA was unique. In my mind AC application to fly to DCA would be better handled under the U.S. Canada bilateral flying agreements through the Canadian Air Ministry, the DOT and the Department of State.
Air Canada applied, as the bilateral treats Canadian carriers the same as US airlines when it comes to things like slots at places like DCA, LGA etc.
There is zero need to handle this any other way as folks like WestJet, Air Canada, Porter are free to compete on their own merits thanks to a liberal agreement between the countries, without the need to trump or hide behind a flag.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 111): In that AS already has a slot award between SEA-DCA given YVR three or so hour drive excluding Customs and Border Protection clearance into the U.S. gives western Canada a viable option for travel to the Reagan airport. It also allows for an extra layer of screening as the DHS is concerned.
Why would SEA have anything to do with it? Its two totally different markets.
Using your logic then PDX should not have gotten a flight either as SEA is certainly within same driving time.
Quoting enilria (Reply 121): JetBlue to PDX , I think you need to edit and put SJU...
Fixed.
Quoting catiii (Reply 125): There's lots of state capitals with nonstop links to DCA: ATL, ALB, BOS, PVD, BDL. Unless you mean Texas' first state capital link to DCA.
Yes obviously Texas since the header was Austin.
Don't underestimate the politics also. Imo quite important for a big and influential state like Texas to have such a link.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
steex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1427 posts, RR: 9 Reply 131, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7123 times:
Quoting chrisair (Reply 124): Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility.
DCA, as I mention, does have a customs facility. The DCA customs staff could attend to pre-cleared flights if necessary in emergency, but certainly aren't staffed to regularly service commercial flight. As SouthernDC9 notes,
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 126): DCA has flights to/from Canada as well as NAS (which might be seasonal, not sure, and I hope I didn't just dream that up or something). At any rate, YVR would have been doable.
The difference with SNA was that it had no FIS whatsoever, including for general aviation. However, even that obstacle has now been overcome, as they began allowing AC to fly SNA non-stop with a plan in place for diversion to LAX in the event that customs service was necessary.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 132, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6957 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 128): WN award of AUS-DCA brings to the surface another interesting thought. Not considering the merger with FL. WN has stated many times over the years; I believe following their entry into Jackson (JAN) WN corporate mantra did not allow them to serve a market unless they could fly it at least five times a day; and definitely not once a day. I suppose the never say never analogy gets flushed this day.
threeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0 Reply 133, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6746 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 120): Alaska to PDX
o First nonstop to DCA’s 4th largest O&D market
o AS today has limited ability to serve local PDX market on existing DCA services due very high LF.
o Ability to offer connections to multiple markets in PNW via PDX.
o AS is a limited incumbent at DCA
o AS previous positive impact on competition at DCA
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 123): I'm surprised PDX was the 4th largest O&D market out of DCA. That's a strangely large number
Perhaps PDX is the 4th largest beyond perimeter market? It can't be the 4th largest O&D market in general.
Notable that the DOT mentioned AS's high load factor on SEA-DCA. A 3rd SEA-DCA flight would be well-used, I believe, if more exemptions are ever available.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 134, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6709 times:
Quoting steex (Reply 112): In terms of DCA, it does not have a customs facility capable of handling commercial flights, but all regularly scheduled transborder flights at YVR are pre-cleared.
Quoting chrisair (Reply 124): Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility. AS found that out the hard way flying YVR-SNA several years ago (before there was a FIS at SNA).
Why does this come up so often? Of course there is a customs facility, and AC serves DCA already.
yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1679 posts, RR: 3 Reply 135, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6716 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 127): Already serves DCA from 3 Canada markets and can connect YVR traffic via
Are you suggesting that to get to YVR from DCA is quite convenient because AC and US fly from DCA to Canadian cities.....Not sure I get the point here.
the best way to connect to YVR from DCA is probably via ORD and MSP. Not via YYZ, YUL or YOW.
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, RR: 3 Reply 136, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6502 times:
Quoting chrisair (Reply 124): Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility. AS found that out the hard way flying YVR-SNA several years ago (before there was a FIS at SNA).
Reagan National does not have a U.S. Customs facility onsite for the inspection of International passengers
All passengers on flights to Reagan National from Canada, the Bahamas, Aruba and Bermuda must clear customs at the flight's departure airport. When the flight reaches Reagan National, all passengers will deplane into the Terminal in the same manner as domestic arriving flights.
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 137, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6494 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 134): Why does this come up so often? Of course there is a customs facility, and AC serves DCA already.
DCA does not have a customs facility .. All international flights into DCA are pre-cleared (Canada and Caribbean) from airports that have U.S. customs and border patrol on site (i.e. most larger Canadian airports) ...
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 138, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6464 times:
Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 133): Perhaps PDX is the 4th largest beyond perimeter market? It can't be the 4th largest O&D market in general.
Yes beyond perimeter, that is what these slot exemption competition was for.
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 135): Are you suggesting that to get to YVR from DCA is quite convenient because AC and US fly from DCA to Canadian cities.....Not sure I get the point here.
Indeed. In the DOT's eyes, AC can route its YVR-DCA pax via existing YUL, YYZ or YOW service.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 139, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6475 times:
Press releases are out:
JetBlue
"It's a great day for JetBlue as we further expand our low fare presence in two of our most rapidly growing cities, Washington, D.C., and San Juan, with new capital-to-capital service," said Rob Land, senior vice president of government affairs and associate general counsel at JetBlue.
"Today's award by the Department of Transportation further underscores that despite being a small player at Reagan National, JetBlue has quickly been able to stimulate traffic, lower fares, and garner significant support in the capital region for our unique brand of customer service."
"JetBlue's new San Juan-to-D.C. direct service will advance Puerto Rico's position as the premier U.S. hub in the Caribbean, boost traveler choice, and inject new competition into the market," Puerto Rico Gov. Luis Fortuno said. "These new low-fare flights between two capital cities will increase Puerto Rico's competitiveness as we continue our drive to be the best destination for business and tourism in the region."
"We are pleased to have the opportunity to bring our unique brand of service to this underserved route – and to better connect one of the world's leading economies to our nation's capital," said David Cush, President and CEO of Virgin America. " Thanks to the outpouring of community support for our application from Bay Area elected officials, civic groups and business organizations and the DOT's decision today, we will finally be able to provide local flyers and businesses with more choice and meaningful low fare competition."
"Providing residents of the greater Portland area with convenient nonstop service to the closest airport to our nation's capital has been a priority for us for a long time and we're delighted this day has come," said Brad Tilden, Alaska Air Group's chief executive officer-elect. "We thank the DOT for their vote of confidence in Alaska Airlines."
"Southwest Airlines will now move forward with our plans to provide low-fare service between our home state capitol, Austin, TX, and Washington, D.C. We will have additional details on fares and flights soon and look forward adding Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport to our route map this summer.
"We greatly appreciate the strong support we received for this route from the state of Texas - including elected officials at the federal, state and local level - as well as our Employees and Customers throughout the United States."
canyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 365 posts, RR: 0 Reply 140, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6408 times:
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 132): Funny how access to DCA will change their tune!
Not quite. Considering Airtran (a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest Airlines) already does more than 5 flights a day from DCA, the DCA-AUS flight while not be operated alone. It doesn't really matter what color the planes are (and to that point the painting process has already begun), or what the agents uniforms say, the money all goes into the same pot. The mantra stays the same.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2456 posts, RR: 0 Reply 141, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6365 times:
Basically the highest seeds won and no major upsets and distributed evenly to the largest and most stable airlines aka neither Alaska, Jetblue, or virgin getting two slots. Seems fair they gave one slot to each airline with good bids and are allowing a new carrier into dca. It does look like vx is a pretty sure thing if they ever do a beyond perimeter exemption again but it may be a very long time if ever for that.
They did allocate these in a fair and balanced way in the end imho no airline got more than one, all good city choices, frontier I think is just too risky to fold and got msn, sun country too small, and air Canada is not a us airline.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 143, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6219 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 130): Why would SEA have anything to do with it? Its two totally different markets.
I think you missed my point. AS has an existing SEA-DCA beyond perimeter slot and is fairly close to YVR. On the tourism front both countries offer sail/motor coach tours; from the Canadian side Vancouver-Victoria-Seattle-Vancouver. On the U.S. side Grey-line for one offers it Seattle-Victoria-Vancover-Seattle. there are also some rail options. I've arrived at SEA many-many times and have seen numerous motor coaches outside of the airport with destination Vancouver signage. I'm sure it is the same at least seasonally during the Vancouver cruise ship season. Keeping in mind that more and more sailings embark out of the Port of Seattle.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 130): Using your logic then PDX should not have gotten a flight either as SEA is certainly within same driving time.
Crossing a state line vs. a countries border; be it Canada is significantly different. Even more so since the passport requirement went into effect a few years ago. If the CBP doesn't like your answers you are also prone to a vehicle search. Excluding the traffic at the wrong time of day of course for those not in the know about secondary routes. Yes the mileage would be about the same.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6049 posts, RR: 25 Reply 144, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6207 times:
No real surprises with the slot winners. There was no way anyone was going to get more than 1 slot as the DOT likes to spread the love as best as possible.
Reagan National does not have a U.S. Customs facility onsite for the inspection of International passengers
All passengers on flights to Reagan National from Canada, the Bahamas, Aruba and Bermuda must clear customs at the flight's departure airport. When the flight reaches Reagan National, all passengers will deplane into the Terminal in the same manner as domestic arriving flights.
Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 137): DCA does not have a customs facility .. All international flights into DCA are pre-cleared (Canada and Caribbean) from airports that have U.S. customs and border patrol on site (i.e. most larger Canadian airports) ...
The confusion is really in people's perception of the word "facility." There are a couple USCBP agents at DCA in a small closet of an office, stationed there for emergency purposes, and to allow pre-cleared international flights to operate to/from Canada, The Bahams, and Bermuda.
There are no formal customs facilities to process inbound, uncleared foreign nationals.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2456 posts, RR: 0 Reply 146, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6126 times:
No airline had a shot at winning more than one slot with the lone exception of vx and they didn't even get it as a new airline. No real surprises basically the four best cities with the four most stable airlines each got one exemption. Frontier got Madison let's remember so they did pickup a in perimeter slot. If there is another beyond perimeter exemption it looks like virgin is likely but I'm not sure there will be one anytime soon or ever. They have given out quite a few here recently
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 147, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5975 times:
Quoting md3 (Reply 145): There are a couple USCBP agents at DCA in a small closet of an office, stationed there for emergency purposes, and to allow pre-cleared international flights to operate to/from Canada, The Bahams, and Bermuda.
Perhaps that is what I mean. I've personally met CBP agents that work at DCA.
md3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 83 posts, RR: 0 Reply 148, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5967 times:
I think all four awarded today are great additions, and on great carriers for the market.
Looking nowat the cities with beyond-perimeter exemptions from DCA, it makes me wonder if or when there will be a next round. All the major MSA's are covered at least.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 149, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5956 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 143): I think you missed my point. AS has an existing SEA-DCA beyond perimeter slot and is fairly close to YVR.
No I dont think I missed your point. The point should be that SEA and YVR are two separate markets, not the least because they are in different countries, but they have different hub airlines and unique individual catchment areas.
Using you logic then, San Diego should not have received service either as its mere 100-miles from LA.
Air Canada's selling point was timing the proposed DCA flight to utilize YVR strength as a gateway across the Pacific. Unfortunately for them, the DOT focused in on the relative small local O&D demand for the route, and AC's previous failure to hang onto IAD-YVR service.
Quoting md3 (Reply 145): The confusion is really in people's perception of the word "facility.
. DCA like LGA, SNA another other airports that host pre-cleared international flights have contingency plans in place if needed to segregate, hold, and rescreen passengers if ever needed.
For example in LGA case several end gates at one of the concourses would be taped off, and passengers held on the aircraft until CBP agents arrive from other ports, and then the baggage and passengers would cleared again inside the concourse.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
ADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1179 posts, RR: 1 Reply 150, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5924 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 128): WN award of AUS-DCA brings to the surface another interesting thought. Not considering the merger with FL. WN has stated many times over the years; I believe following their entry into Jackson (JAN) WN corporate mantra did not allow them to serve a market unless they could fly it at least five times a day; and definitely not once a day. I suppose the never say never analogy gets flushed this day.
Once the FL/WN merger goes thru WN will serve DCA 5 or more times a day.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 151, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5847 times:
Quoting md3 (Reply 148): Looking nowat the cities with beyond-perimeter exemptions from DCA, it makes me wonder if or when there will be a next round. All the major MSA's are covered at least.
You raise a very good point - now that all the big fish are taken care of, how will DOT proceed in future slot exemptions? I think it gets much more interesting, because the priorities are much less clear - that SFO should get service in this round over COS makes sense, but at some point adding to LAX and SFO won't cut it andothers will have more of a shot (e.g., SAT, SJC, SMF).
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 152, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5788 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 149): No I dont think I missed your point. The point should be that SEA and YVR are two separate markets, not the least because they are in different countries, but they have different hub airlines and unique individual catchment areas.
Not to mention are a 3 hour drive from each other with no traffic - no closer than the cluster of massive international airports between NY and DC.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2074 posts, RR: 2 Reply 153, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5741 times:
Quoting md3 (Reply 145): The confusion is really in people's perception of the word "facility.
Good point I know of several airports who have CBP agents on call who must be able to respond within an hour. They do no have offices at the airport.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 149): Using you logic then, San Diego should not have received service either as its mere 100-miles from LA.
DCA and LGA are slot controlled. IMO the DCA more prevalent in that those slots are approved/controlled by the Congress. The playing field changes at that point. Until US swapped for DFW for SAN six or so weeks ago I would go as far as saying SAN was in the same boat. I guess we can only agree to disagree.
[Edited 2012-05-14 17:18:06]
[Edited 2012-05-14 17:21:22]
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 154, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5737 times:
Quite surprised by SJU. A little flash of bureaucratic independence and rebellion to assign slots to a place without a congresscritter. I thought it was a no-brainer that all the slots would be awarded to places with voting congressional representation, with an eye toward the members' clout and likely future length of tenure.
The other three are no-brainers.
Quoting gigneil (Reply 152): Not to mention are a 3 hour drive from each other with no traffic - no closer than the cluster of massive international airports between NY and DC.
If no traffic and you get across the border without a wait, it's only a shade over 2 hours. Still, SEA had nothing to do with YVR not getting the slot -- YVR not being a U.S. city or offering any connectivity had to do with YVR not getting the slot.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, RR: 3 Reply 155, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5487 times:
Quoting md3 (Reply 148): Looking nowat the cities with beyond-perimeter exemptions from DCA, it makes me wonder if or when there will be a next round.
Probably not until Congress reauthorizes the FAA legislation that led to this round. Keep in mind this round for an addition of 8 slots for limited incumbent/new entrant slots came about as a result of the bill that was signed into law on Feb. 14th, and which had expired in 2007. Prior to that, Congress hadn't passed an authorization since 2002. And since Congress has to authorize the beyond-perimeter expansions, it probably won't happen again anytime soon.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 153): the DCA more prevalent in that those slots are approved/controlled by the Congress.
Not entirely. Congress created the additional 8 beyond perimeter limited incumbent/new entrant exemptions. However, the law also put DOT in charge of approving which airline the slots went to.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 154): Quite surprised by SJU. A little flash of bureaucratic independence and rebellion to assign slots to a place without a congresscritter. I thought it was a no-brainer that all the slots would be awarded to places with voting congressional representation, with an eye toward the members' clout and likely future length of tenure.
I would actually be interested to see if the New York delegation got involved in this given the B6 headquarters in LIC, and given the fact that traditionally the New York City delegation carries the water for Puerto Rico when they can given the strong community there.
Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 129): I don't think you mean ironic ... and, seriously, DCA-SFO is a huge market .. not only can it support two flights on two carriers, it could easily support several more nonstop departures from DCA ...
No, I did mean ironic. Cruel irony, but nonetheless irony, that on the day UA launches their nonstop DOT approves a new entrant competitor.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 156, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5414 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 155): Not entirely. Congress created the additional 8 beyond perimeter limited incumbent/new entrant exemptions. However, the law also put DOT in charge of approving which airline the slots went to.
I had a similar reply earlier and just chose not to make it because it was complicated, but I agree with you. Congress made this one a bit more complicated, but they in no way pick the actual carriers that get them.
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, RR: 3 Reply 157, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5431 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 156): I had a similar reply earlier and just chose not to make it because it was complicated, but I agree with you. Congress made this one a bit more complicated, but they in no way pick the actual carriers that get them.
Now, does that preclude members of the House and Senate from weighing in in support of an airline's application? It sure doesn't...
Rookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 305 posts, RR: 2 Reply 158, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5142 times:
Quoting Rookinla (Reply 23):
But I can assure you that what was ticketed today was Alaska DCA-SAN-HNL round trip direct...one flight number and no plane changes.
So, what happened to your ticket you booked?
As you can imagine AS has already called to get them reaccommodated...
They are great to deal with...very customer focused. That's very refreshing these days.
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 159, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4952 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 157): Now, does that preclude members of the House and Senate from weighing in in support of an airline's application? It sure doesn't...
...and, to add to that, it doesn't preclude members from remembering how their districts were treated when markup time rolls around. Smart bureaucrats are well aware of this; as a result, members may not even have to weigh in explicitly.
Quoting catiii (Reply 155): I would actually be interested to see if the New York delegation got involved in this given the B6 headquarters in LIC
At the very least, that's a good incentive (which I just didn't think about at all) for DOT to pick B6 to SJU.
[Edited 2012-05-14 22:27:37]
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6049 posts, RR: 25 Reply 160, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4688 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 154): Quite surprised by SJU. A little flash of bureaucratic independence and rebellion to assign slots to a place without a congresscritter. I thought it was a no-brainer that all the slots would be awarded to places with voting congressional representation, with an eye toward the members' clout and likely future length of tenure.
It's not that uncommon. Many slot awards have not gone the way that Congressional members have wanted. One upside to having government bureaucrats who are difficult to fire is that they can make tough choices that may not be popular with Congress.
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 161, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4615 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 154): Quite surprised by SJU. A little flash of bureaucratic independence and rebellion to assign slots to a place without a congresscritter. I thought it was a no-brainer that all the slots would be awarded to places with voting congressional representation, with an eye toward the members' clout and likely future length of tenure.
Well, don't forget that every airline has a host of congressional representatives that lend their vocal support ... JetBlue's supporters are very powerful NY Senators and Congressman ...
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 162, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4634 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 155): No, I did mean ironic. Cruel irony, but nonetheless irony, that on the day UA launches their nonstop DOT approves a new entrant competitor.
Well, ok, but I still don't think it's ironic .... Coincidence maybe, but DCA-SFO could support six nonstop flights easily ... there isn't anything cruel about this ... DCA-DEN has four now and it's a gold mine for both UA and F9 ...
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, RR: 3 Reply 163, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4454 times:
Does anyone know how JetBlue plans to route the 320 on DCA-SJU? In their application they proposed a 10A departure frm DCA, arriving in SJU at 1:55P. They also proposed an 11:05 departure from SJU, arriving in DCA at 3:05. Would that 320 sit overnight? Or will they upgauge one of their existing 190 routes out of DCA to get more utlization out of it?
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 159): At the very least, that's a good incentive (which I just didn't think about at all) for DOT to pick B6 to SJU.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 164, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4298 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 140): Not quite. Considering Airtran (a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest Airlines) already does more than 5 flights a day from DCA, the DCA-AUS flight while not be operated alone. It doesn't really matter what color the planes are (and to that point the painting process has already begun), or what the agents uniforms say, the money all goes into the same pot. The mantra stays the same.
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 142): SJD is starting with 1 daily flight and MEX will have 2. DSM will have 2 and CAK will have 3.
Of course--that remark was in jest. In truth, it's yet another example of how WN has had to adapt it's business model as it chases "the long tail" of demand after connecting all the big dots on their map. I just find it funny how WN tries to maintain the old bromides of "we don't have hubs", only opening stations with ~5+ flights a day, minimum fleet types (before adding the -800's), no red-eyes etc., when such things will inevitably disappear as they continue to grow, not to mention integrate FL ops into the WN fold.
SouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 263 posts, RR: 0 Reply 165, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4005 times:
Being a Mississippian and an airline geek, I'm really curious when they will announce the US (DCA-JAN) vs. WN (DCA-OKC) decision. I know F9 is in there too but I doubt they're contenders.
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
JetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1613 posts, RR: 2 Reply 166, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3862 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 154): Quite surprised by SJU. A little flash of bureaucratic independence and rebellion to assign slots to a place without a congresscritter
They do have some political clout. Puerto Rico is a US Territory which means that they do elect a Resident Commissioner who serves a 4 year term. They are allowed to vote in Committee on legislation, but not on final passage on the House floor. While the current RC does not serve on committees related to transportation, they still have some influence in Washigton.
I think SJU is actually a very interesting and outside the box award. It connects 2 capitals, and might do very well for tourism.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
LHCVG From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1369 posts, RR: 1 Reply 168, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3653 times:
Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 166): I think SJU is actually a very interesting and outside the box award. It connects 2 capitals, and might do very well for tourism.
I also noted the DOT's own mention of the fact that it was a leisure market - so they were giving things dual consideration rather than just a business case.
ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4006 posts, RR: 23 Reply 169, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3640 times:
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 165): Being a Mississippian and an airline geek, I'm really curious when they will announce the US (DCA-JAN) vs. WN (DCA-OKC) decision. I know F9 is in there too but I doubt they're contenders.
Many of us around here are wondering the same thing. It sucks that OKC finally gaining access to DCA comes at the cost of another city - especially since I've always been very pro for smaller market service. You would think if the market was there, US would move a couple slots over to maintain the service.
Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
klwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 3 Reply 170, posted (1 year 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3311 times:
Given the competition I am not surprised F9 did not get an award to COS. I bet F9 will try again and likely succeed at some point, provided F9 is still a going concern! COS has lots of military facilities.
I am very glad to see SJU get a slot. An interesting choice. Puerto Rico is indeed part of the USA so hey, why not.
I envision F9 getting a COS to DCA slot before I see AC getting a slot to YVR.
kgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 3650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 171, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3136 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 149): and AC's previous failure to hang onto IAD-YVR service.
IIRC, there was a public clamor for such service -- some orchestrated inside the Asian community in northern Virginia. With the service in place, few of the petition signers actually bought tickets for the nonstop.
kgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 3650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 172, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3064 times:
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 170): I envision F9 getting a COS to DCA slot before I see AC getting a slot to YVR.
If the connection here is the petroleum / pipeline industry, YYC (Canada's oil capital) will probably get service from DCA before YVR (cruise ships and winter sports) does.
yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1679 posts, RR: 3 Reply 173, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2973 times:
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 172): If the connection here is the petroleum / pipeline industry, YYC (Canada's oil capital) will probably get service from DCA before YVR (cruise ships and winter sports) does.
I'm not sure there's that much business between YYC and WAS in general. If the market warrants a flight to YYC from the WAS area, United would have offered the service from Dulles (even on a trial basis) long time ago.
YVR offers connections and access to twice the population as Calgary does.
But anyways, AC will soon be competing with US on its DCA flights, so should be interesting to see how AC evolves its strategy with DCA
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 15 Reply 175, posted (1 year 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2531 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 174): JetBlue published its schedule:
Effective August 23rd
DCA-SJU 0850-1234
SJU-DCA 1755-2144
Thanx for the update LAX'.
The times of the n/b flight sure don't resemble the ones in the original application, which were:
DCA-SJU 10:00am-1:55pm
SJU-DCA 11:05am-3:05pm
I thought the times would be pretty close. I was under the impression that times chosen in the original bid were important and part of the overall strategy and could even determine if one airline were picked over another. I apparently misunderstood the process and the priorities.
I guess all of these new flights have to be worked in where landing and take-off slots are available at DCA. And the actual times selected might work better for the cx anyway. I wonder if it's first come, first served (by the FAA) as far as who gets what times?
I will also be curious to see if WN's actual service to Austin will still include the direct tag-on to SAN, or if the DOT doesn't care about service-beyond elements of the original applications?
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 176, posted (1 year 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2525 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 163): Does anyone know how JetBlue plans to route the 320 on DCA-SJU? In their application they proposed a 10A departure frm DCA, arriving in SJU at 1:55P. They also proposed an 11:05 departure from SJU, arriving in DCA at 3:05. Would that 320 sit overnight? Or will they upgauge one of their existing 190 routes out of DCA to get more utlization out of it?
B6 ranges 34 - 38 departures per day from SJU in June (that's the last schedule package that I can see right now for some reason) with a lot of those being A320's, obviously more flights coming there soon. Only a max of 3 R.O.N. aircraft are showing for SJU through June. Based on that pattern, the aircraft will turn back out to a different city, and an inbound flight to SJU from somewhere else will turn back out to DCA.
....you might see the SJU-DCA aircraft R.O.N. at DCA as B6 Tech Ops is moving from IAD to DCA. R.O.N. count fluctuates between 2 and 4 aircraft (again, as per the June schedule) which might change once Tech Ops moves over. That would allow it to be a morning fleet launch aircraft.
Hope that helps a little, sorry I can't see further out than June...it's driving me nuts LOL!
Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 161): Well, don't forget that every airline has a host of congressional representatives that lend their vocal support ... JetBlue's supporters are very powerful NY Senators and Congressman ...
LOL, yes, I'm sure "Uncle Chuck" (Sen. Charles Schumer) made his voice well heard...just like he is putting pressure on B6 to go to ISP. B6 would not have exploded to where it is today without good old "Uncle Chuck" going to bat for us
Congrats to all the airlines out there who were awarded the outside-perimeter slots!
~H81
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, RR: 3 Reply 177, posted (1 year 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2505 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 175):
The times of the n/b flight sure don't resemble the ones in the original application, which were:
DCA-SJU 10:00am-1:55pm
SJU-DCA 11:05am-3:05pm
That schedule didn't make much sense to me from an aircraft utilization standpoint, unless they were planning to upgauge in some way one of the existing 190 routes to a 320. Otherwise, that 320 would have just sat there from 3P until it went back to SJU the next day.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22059 posts, RR: 51 Reply 178, posted (1 year 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2516 times:
Schedules were subject to existing DCA slot constraints, and had to be worked out with the FAA.
DOT in its award made note that requested carrier slot timings might not be possible particularly if multiple requests for similar hourly periods were received, and ultimately not all request might be accommodated per operator desire.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 179, posted (1 year 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2424 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 177): Otherwise, that 320 would have just sat there from 3P until it went back to SJU the next day.
Again, with the amount of flight activity that we have in SJU, it is probably NOT the same a/c doing the DCA-SJU run as the SJU-DCA run (for the initial schedule). Planes come in and turn back to other cities. If a plane lands in SJU at 3pm, it's not going to stay until sometime the next day. It's going to depart SJU to a different city and meanwhile a different aircraft inbound to SJU from a different city would turn to DCA. As the post from SANFan shows with the latest schedule, it is going to be 2 different a/c performing the route as well since both flights are in the air at the same time.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
CGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 303 posts, RR: 7 Reply 180, posted (1 year 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2342 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
As a PDXer (part time at least), I can't wait to see what slot times AS is allocated for its newly awarded PDX-DCA route. I also wonder what flight numbers AS will use.
Fun times in DCAville!
~CGKings317
I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
HiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 607 posts, RR: 1 Reply 181, posted (1 year 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2233 times:
Quoting CGKings317 (Reply 180): I can't wait to see what slot times AS is allocated for its newly awarded PDX-DCA
Heard today from an AS agent in DCA that PDX service will start in August, earlier than the Sept 8th mandatory start date. Didn't get an exact date though...sorry.
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, RR: 3 Reply 182, posted (1 year 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2158 times:
Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 179): Again, with the amount of flight activity that we have in SJU, it is probably NOT the same a/c doing the DCA-SJU run as the SJU-DCA run (for the initial schedule). Planes come in and turn back to other cities. If a plane lands in SJU at 3pm, it's not going to stay until sometime the next day. It's going to depart SJU to a different city and meanwhile a different aircraft inbound to SJU from a different city would turn to DCA.
You missed my point entirely. I'm not talking about SJU. Look at what the proposed schedule was in the application:
DCA-SJU 1000-1355
SJU-DCA 1105-1505
So, per the proposed schedule in the application, B6 would have had a 320 arriving in DCA from SJU at 1505. Given that the proposed departure to SJU from DCA was at 1000, they either would have had to upgauge an existing late afternoon 190 flight out of DCA to a 320 to utilize that airplane or have that 320 sit in DCA for 19 hours to make up the next day's 1000 departure to SJU. So my point was that the "new" announced schedule makes much more sense from a utilization standpoint then the originally proposed schedule in the application because now that 320 just sits in DCA for a normal overnight.
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