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DOT DCA Slot Award Decision  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 25055 times:

I understand the DOT as soon as this week will likely announce its decision regarding award of 4 new beyond perimeter slot pairs from DCA.

Since the previous threads are locked, I am starting a new one in anticipation of the award announcements.

In summary the air carrier slot request were as follows:
o Air Canada – 1x DCA-YVR A319
o Alaska Airlines – 1x DCA-PDX B738; 1x DCA-SAN B738
o Frontier Airlines – 1x DCA-COS A319 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o JetBlue – 1x DCA-SJU A320; 1x DCA-AUS E190
o Southwest – 1x DCA-AUS B738 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o Sun Country – 1x DCA-LAS B737
o Virgin America – 2x DCA-SFO A319

The DOT stated criteria for tje award is as follows.
A - Provide air transportation with domestic network benefits beyond the 1,250 mile perimeter
B - Increase competition in one or more markets
C - Not reduce travel options for communities served by small hub airports and medium hub airports within the 1,250 mile perimeter
D - Not result in meaningfully increased travel delays
E - Enhance options for nonstop travel to and from the beyond perimeter airports that will be served
F - Have a positive impact on the overall level of competition in the markets that will be served
G - Produce public benefits, including lower fares, higher capacity, and a variety of service options.


Related and to refresh everyone, 4 beyond perimeter slots were also awarded to incumbent carriers at DCA automatically. The carriers were free to select the markets which they desired to utilize the slots in. Below was their elections:
o American – 1x DCA-LAX B757 – effective Jun 14th
o Delta – 1x DCA-SLC B738/B757 – effective Jun 7th
o United – 1x DCA-SFO B737 – effective May 14th
o US Airways – 1x DCA-SAN A319/A320 – effective June 8th


I'm not sure for example how US Air selection of San Diego will hamper some of the the new entrants request which also asked to link the city in the DOTs eyes. Same with UA/VX in SFO.

Lets see now what the DOT comes up with.   

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
196 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 25043 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

o Air Canada – 1x DCA-YVR A319
o Alaska Airlines – 1x DCA-PDX B738; 1x DCA-SAN B738
o Frontier Airlines – 1x DCA-COS A319 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o JetBlue – 1x DCA-SJU A320; 1x DCA-AUS E190
o Southwest – 1x DCA-AUS B738 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o Sun Country – 1x DCA-LAS B737
o Virgin America – 2x DCA-SFO A319

Purely my guesses :

AC - definitely no. too protectionist.
Alaska - PDX
Frontier - none, and COS is not a crucial destination
B6 - SJU
WN - AUS+SAN
Sun Country - probably not
VX - SFO


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 24898 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Sun Country – 1x DCA-LAS B737
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 1):
Sun Country - probably not

While I agree, I remember reading something a while back that SY was hoping to get this, as it might allow them to play with the timings of the MSP-LAN-DCA service. It seemed as though what they were hoping was that the extra slot would allow them to push back the departure time out of DCA to later in the afternoon to allow a better work day while in DC.

I can't seem to find it online any longer, but it was in an interview with the CEO.



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlinederridd From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 24851 times:

What about the Air 21 slots WN (OKC), F9 (SDF), and US filed for? Will those decisions come out as well?

User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2788 posts, RR: 32
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 24851 times:

Will we also see the US-JAN (F9-SDF/WN-OKC) slot award decision this week too?


No info
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 24610 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
1x DCA-SAN B738
Yeaaaaahh !!!!!

Finally !

US Airways – 1x DCA-SAN A319/A320 – effective June 8th

Another Yeaaaah !!!!!

[Edited 2012-05-07 10:41:35]

[Edited 2012-05-07 10:44:55]

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 24295 times:

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 4):
Will we also see the US-JAN (F9-SDF/WN-OKC) slot award decision this week too?

That decision should be coming soon as well. In my opinion, the slot should stay with US for DCA-JAN


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 23989 times:

I tried to stage a big rally this weekend, I called it "Occupy Gravelly Point," demanding quick action on these decisions. I made signs that said "Slots Now!" and "Give Us Our Slots!" and my favorites, "I love you a slot!" and "Slots Amore!" Several people joined me and I was just thrilled until I figured out that they weren't A.netters but rather gambling addicts who wanted to tear down Mt. Vernon and build a casino there. We compromised and joined forces to demand slot machines on Sun Country's DCA-LAS outside-the-perimeter flights. Viva revo-slot-cion!!!!!!


What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13591 posts, RR: 61
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 23972 times:
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I can see VX definitely getting 1X DCASFO service, but not 2X. Just my $0.02...


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23597 times:

I think air Canada is the toughest sell but I really could see any of the other routes getting awarded and I wouldn't be too shocked. A case can be made for all cities so The criteria they use will probably decide it. I am gonna go out on a ledge here and predict that AS does not get two additional exemptions though when so many new airlines applied given what they already have

User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16865 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 23569 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
award of 4 new beyond perimeter slot pairs from DCA.

My guess;

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Air Canada – 1x DCA-YVR A319

Approve

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Alaska Airlines – 1x DCA-PDX B738

Approve

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
etBlue – 1x DCA-SJU A320;

Approve

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Southwest – 1x DCA-AUS B738

Approve



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 23130 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 7):
I tried to stage a big rally this weekend

Thanks for making me chuckle.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
D - Not result in meaningfully increased travel delays

How can this criterion be used to separate the different options? I don't understand.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
C - Not reduce travel options for communities served by small hub airports and medium hub airports within the 1,250 mile perimeter

Again, how can this criterion be used to separate the options? Whether it's B6 to SJU, or AC to YVR, isn't the impact on small/medium hubs within the perimeter the same?

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
E - Enhance options for nonstop travel to and from the beyond perimeter airports that will be served

That would seem to go against SY to LAS or B6 to AUS.


User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 23108 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
In summary the air carrier slot request were as follows:
o Air Canada – 1x DCA-YVR A319
o Alaska Airlines – 1x DCA-PDX B738; 1x DCA-SAN B738
o Frontier Airlines – 1x DCA-COS A319 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o JetBlue – 1x DCA-SJU A320; 1x DCA-AUS E190
o Southwest – 1x DCA-AUS B738 with continuing same plane service to SAN
o Sun Country – 1x DCA-LAS B737
o Virgin America – 2x DCA-SFO A319

My guesses:
Air Canada: probably not; lack of competition would mean high fares
Alaska: DCA-SAN; not enough competition for PDX-DCA, so fares would be high
Frontier: no: COS is not a big enough airport to justify this service
JetBlue: DCA-AUS, maybe DCA-SJU
Southwest: DCA-AUS-SAN
Sun Country: DCA-LAS
Virgin America: DCA-SFO


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 23088 times:
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Quoting jporterfi (Reply 12):
Frontier: no: COS is not a big enough airport to justify this service

Probably true. OO does IAD-COS with a CR7 .


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 22730 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 12):
Alaska: DCA-SAN; not enough competition for PDX-DCA, so fares would be high

There is no competition on some of the perimeter DCA routes so that doesn't exclude the route from being awarded. Two airlines serving PDX-DCA would be overkill. SEA-DCA is still only AS and up until they let AA add DCA-LAX, AS was the only one there too. US is the only airline out of PHX and DL out of SLC for example, so why would PDX need 2 carriers for it to be approved? I would be absolutely shocked if PDX-DCA on AS doesn't get approved. I don't think anyone on this forum has felt that AS won't get it.


User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 22694 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 12):
Air Canada: probably not; lack of competition would mean high fares
Alaska: DCA-SAN; not enough competition for PDX-DCA, so fares would be high
Frontier: no: COS is not a big enough airport to justify this service
JetBlue: DCA-AUS, maybe DCA-SJU
Southwest: DCA-AUS-SAN
Sun Country: DCA-LAS
Virgin America: DCA-SFO

Alaska asked for DCA-PDX for the first service and only if that service is approved for DCA-SAN. jetBlue did the same: DCA-SJU and only if that service is granted then DCA-AUS. PDX is now the largest unserved market from DCA, if I remember right. I expect it to be approved. Same with B6 DCA-SJU and WN DCA-AUS-SAN. DOT tends to spread out awards when it can, so as much as I'd like AS to get the DCA-SAN-HNL route, I think VX will receive a DCA-SFO authority instead.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 22001 times:
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Quoting texan (Reply 15):
PDX is now the largest unserved market from DCA, if I remember right.

Not to quibble, but by metro area -- according to Wikipedia -- it's (1) SFO (2) SAN and (3) PDX -- which doesn't diminish the commercial importance of service to any of those cities.


User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 21888 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 16):

Not to quibble, but by metro area -- according to Wikipedia -- it's (1) SFO (2) SAN and (3) PDX -- which doesn't diminish the commercial importance of service to any of those cities.

Ah but to quibble...if you notice he excluded SFO and SAN because they now have service to DCA.

SFO by UA, and SAN by US Airways.

So if PDX is next in line he would be correct to say that PDX is in fact the largest unserved market from DCA.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 21747 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 14):
I would be absolutely shocked if PDX-DCA on AS doesn't get approved. I don't think anyone on this forum has felt that AS won't get it.

I have gone as far to say, this route out of all the slots requested will be assured for AS, I'd be way more than surprised if AS does not get this award.  



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineRookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 307 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 20848 times:

AS has loaded DCA-SAN-HNL in the GDS. I booked it for a family of six today.

User currently offline9lflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 20812 times:

Mods, I think the title of this thread should be changed. It leads people to believe a dicision has been made rather than being labled as potention decisions.


My opinions do not represent the opinions of my company. They are solely the opinion of the poster.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 20766 times:

You might want to double check. What I can see is DCA-SEA-HNL.

Would be illegal for them to market a flight which they do not hold authority for. Go ask AirTran which accidentally published and sold some MDW-CUN tickets prior to gaining the authority from the DOT.

Quoting 9lflyguy (Reply 20):
Mods, I think the title of this thread should be changed. It leads people to believe a dicision has been made rather than being labled as potention decisions.

The decision is due out any day..... that is what this discussion topic is about as explained in opening thread.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 20722 times:

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 19):
AS has loaded DCA-SAN-HNL in the GDS. I booked it for a family of six today.

If that holds up, then congrats to AS on receiving two new DCA routes!

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineRookinla From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 307 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 20702 times:

I just went to Alaska's website. The flight is not listed. But I can assure you that what was ticketed today was Alaska DCA-SAN-HNL round trip direct...one flight number and no plane changes. Whether AS will be in trouble for this is another matter entirely.

User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 953 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 20547 times:

Just found it as well.....Flight 897 DCA-SAN-HNL starts service on August 13th. Seems that AS knows something the rest of us don't? Did a search for DCA-PDX....nothing. Could it be that AS was awarded SAN and NOT awarded PDX?

User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2041 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20720 times:

COS is not far from DEN but also its own distinct market. I am not sure how much traffic there is to the DC area, but COS is a military heavy city.

I know it's not a big city, and I am in the minority here, but I am rooting for F9 to get this approved.


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20699 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 24):
Just found it as well.....Flight 897 DCA-SAN-HNL starts service on August 13th.

Huh? I don't see it. I went and searched those same days and all I see are one stops through SEA. Can someone take a screen shot?


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13591 posts, RR: 61
Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 21032 times:
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Quoting hatbutton (Reply 26):
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 24):Just found it as well.....Flight 897 DCA-SAN-HNL starts service on August 13th.
Huh? I don't see it. I went and searched those same days and all I see are one stops through SEA. Can someone take a screen shot?

Please let me know ASAP so I can let the AS.com guys know (assuming this was an error).



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20902 times:
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Quoting atrude777 (Reply 17):
Ah but to quibble...if you notice he excluded SFO and SAN because they now have service to DCA.

Oh ! Right you are.

Sorry about that.   


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 29, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20904 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 15):
Alaska asked for DCA-PDX for the first service and only if that service is approved for DCA-SAN. jetBlue did the same: DCA-SJU and only if that service is granted then DCA-AUS

Not quite. You are correct about B6's bid (first SJU, and only if that is approved, then they would like AUS.) You are incorrect about AS's application: PDX was listed first ("and foremost") but not as a necessity for them to accept SAN. Here's a quote from AS's original application:

Quote:
Alaska Airlines, Inc. (“Alaska”) proposes to operate the first nonstop flights between Reagan Washington National Airport (“DCA”) and Portland (“PDX”), Alaska’s number one priority, and between DCA and San Diego (“SAN”). Alaska proposes one daily B-737-800 roundtrip flight to each city and therefore requests the allocation of four slots.

I am pretty confident that AS would be happy to get either, but thrilled to get both!

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 19):
AS has loaded DCA-SAN-HNL in the GDS. I booked it for a family of six today.

Perhaps you could check the times of the flights; we know what AS's proposed fligth schedule is for the service so that should help with this quandry.

I had hoped we would have gotten a decision from the DOT last week but I think May 14 -- another week -- is pretty much the deadline.

I'm not changing my prediction: AS gets both PDX and SAN, WN gets AUS, and VX gets their "second" SFO choice (the morning departure from DCA turning to the afternoon SFO-Reagan flight.)

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 24):
Just found it as well.....Flight 897 DCA-SAN-HNL starts service on August 13th. Seems that AS knows something the rest of us don't?

Very interesting! I've just been looking and couldn't find anything.... (Can anyone find times for "flight 897"?)

bb


User currently offlineASAFA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 171 posts, RR: 3
Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20992 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 29):
Very interesting! I've just been looking and couldn't find anything.... (Can anyone find times for "flight 897"?)



Flight 897 DCA-HNL
DCA 4:10 PM
SAN 6:55 PM

SAN 8:25 PM
HNL 11:30 PM

Flight 896 HNL-DCA
HNL 9:35 PM
SAN 6:10 AM (next day)

SAN 7:10 AM
DCA 3:10 PM



Prepare for Takeoff
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20843 times:

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 30):
Flight 897 DCA-HNL
DCA 4:10 PM
SAN 6:55 PM

SAN 8:25 PM
HNL 11:30 PM

Flight 896 HNL-DCA
HNL 9:35 PM
SAN 6:10 AM (next day)

SAN 7:10 AM
DCA 3:10 PM

Just to clarify: this info is from where? Is this from the application or from AS's DRS? Because these ARE the times from the application but there was no flight number there! Hmmmmmmm........

bb


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13591 posts, RR: 61
Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20800 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
Just to clarify: this info is from where? Is this from the application or from AS's DRS? Because these ARE the times from the application but there was no flight number there! Hmmmmmmm........

And I'm not finding this on AS.com...



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20764 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
Just to clarify: this info is from where? Is this from the application or from AS's DRS? Because these ARE the times from the application but there was no flight number there! Hmmmmmmm........

And I'm not finding this on AS.com...

Sent you a message that will explain how I was able to find it.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20426 times:

At least we have some drama pre announcement adds some excitement  

If you were allowed to book I'm guessing it's just a mistake they can't sell seats to a route they haven't been awarded yet. They probably had the tech guys do some work and never meant to release that or something? For the record I tried everything here and nothing so maybe some temporary glitch showed that and they have it pre made ready to release and sell seats if they get the exemption.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 20435 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
And I'm not finding this on AS.com...

It's bookable on Travelocity, so it's in SABRE.


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13591 posts, RR: 61
Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 20400 times:
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Quoting ScottB (Reply 35):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):And I'm not finding this on AS.com...
It's bookable on Travelocity, so it's in SABRE.

AS.com doesn't pull from SABRE, but ITA.

However I did access it in native SABRE and you're correct, it does appear to be loaded.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 20231 times:

Can anybody access OAG? I tried but my previous entry into their schedules doesn't work anymore...

I sure hope we hear something "o-fish-ul" soon... like today for example!

  

bb


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 19757 times:

Where is DCA going to fit Virgin America or any new carriers? Can WN share with AirTran at this point? Last time I saw A it was getting crowded...


What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineBryanG From United States of America, joined May 1999, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 19381 times:

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 2):
none, and COS is not a crucial destination
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 13):
no: COS is not a big enough airport to justify this service
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 25):
COS is a military heavy city.

Don't count out COS. When I was a defense contractor working in the D.C. area I had to travel to COS three or four times per year on various jobs. There are a ton of influential people in D.C. who would love to have that nonstop. I think it would find a market. And, the fact that it continues on to SAN (another military-heavy city) would even expand the potential market.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 40, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 18882 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 35):
It's bookable on Travelocity, so it's in SABRE.
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):
However I did access it in native SABRE and you're correct, it does appear to be loaded.

Wow, the plot is thickening like grandma's homemade gravy! Whether an inadvertent mistake, a leak, or a really bad joke, something seems to be going on here.

This is certainly the new age of instant access, transparency, and leaks! The DOT better OFFICIALLY announce their decision in the case pretty soon or it might not need to bother... Amazing.

bb


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2041 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 18190 times:

Quoting BryanG (Reply 39):

Don't count out COS. When I was a defense contractor working in the D.C. area I had to travel to COS three or four times per year on various jobs. There are a ton of influential people in D.C. who would love to have that nonstop. I think it would find a market. And, the fact that it continues on to SAN (another military-heavy city) would even expand the potential market.


COS is not a huge market to DCA, but it could work because of all the defense related interests in the "Springs."

Thank you for agreeing with me...


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13591 posts, RR: 61
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17772 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 40):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 36):
However I did access it in native SABRE and you're correct, it does appear to be loaded.

Wow, the plot is thickening like grandma's homemade gravy! Whether an inadvertent mistake, a leak, or a really bad joke, something seems to be going on here.

I passed it on to our CRC folks and they've pulled it. File it under "agent error," most likely.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17531 times:

If they don't announce these slots soon I'm going to set myself on fire. Maybe. Probably not. Absolutely not, really, I would never do anything so melodramatic but I very much want to know who gets what, the suspense is killing me!!!!!!!! (Plus I'm planning a trip to SAN in the fall and I want to know if I'll be able to fly AS non-stop!!!)


What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 44, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17237 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 43):
(Plus I'm planning a trip to SAN in the fall and I want to know if I'll be able to fly AS non-stop!!!)

You can fly DCA-SAN nonstop on US....


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 17043 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 44):
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 43):
(Plus I'm planning a trip to SAN in the fall and I want to know if I'll be able to fly AS non-stop!!!)

You can fly DCA-SAN nonstop on US....

Right, but I want to fly Alaska.



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 46, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 16948 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 43):
I'm planning a trip to SAN in the fall and I want to know if I'll be able to fly AS non-stop!!!
Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 45):
I want to fly Alaska.

I can tell you 'DC9 that a lot of people feel the same way!

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 42):
I passed it on to our CRC folks and they've pulled it. File it under "agent error," most likely.

Somebody just wanted to see how it looked "live" and didn't stop in time! At least I'm encouraged by the fact that flight numbers are already assigned.  

Oh well, back to waiting and dreaming...

bb


User currently offlineSYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16492 times:

Here is what I am thinking.
JetBlue to SanJuan
Air Canada to Toronto
Air Canada to Montreal
SunCountry to LasVegas
Alaska to Portland


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16373 times:

Quoting SYfan100 (Reply 47):
Air Canada to Toronto
Air Canada to Montreal

Neither of these were in the AC application - The DOT can't approve what isn't applied for.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 49, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16368 times:

Quoting SYfan100 (Reply 47):
Here is what I am thinking.

Double check the first post in the thread to see what actually was applied for.  


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 50, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16218 times:

Ok, who has the pool going to see who is right with all 4 correctly picked. I think we can have a upgrade to First Class membership as a grand prize.  

My four are as follows:

AS-PDX, SAN, B6-SJU, WN-AUS. I would have put VX-SFO, but I don't think one departure a day would be a big enough presence. I also thought about F9 to COS, and I think that F9 is too weak of a carrier to award a slot to, when it's possible they could finally fold if they don't find some plan they can stick to profitably, if that happened, where would that slot go?



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 16215 times:

The DOT has to eliminate two applications from what I understand. My guess would be AC YVR and B6 AUS


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 16098 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
SAN 7:10 AM
DCA 3:10 PM

AS's timing for SAN-DCA is nearly identical to WN's SAN-BWI .

I wonder what that will do to fares on both airlines?


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 16009 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 51):
The DOT has to eliminate two applications from what I understand. My guess would be AC YVR and B6 AUS

Not sure I follow, more than two proposals will have to be cut



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 54, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15957 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 50):
I would have put VX-SFO, but I don't think one departure a day would be a big enough presence.

That's not a criteria the DOT uses when awarding slots, so it doesn't matter.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 50):
I also thought about F9 to COS, and I think that F9 is too weak of a carrier to award a slot to, when it's possible they could finally fold if they don't find some plan they can stick to profitably, if that happened, where would that slot go?

Again, not a criteria the DOT uses. And if F9 did fail, the slot would just get rebid....as many other slots have been in the past.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 55, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 15983 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 52):
AS's timing for SAN-DCA is nearly identical to WN's SAN-BWI.
One of WN's SAN-BWI flights... WN's times are always changing so on the next schedule, they could be an hour or more different.. I think a lot of the pax on the WN flights at these times are connectors so local fares to DC might not be to large a factor.

In fact, UA has SAN-IAD flights at very similar times as well. One thing this shows me is that AS has chosen excellent (peak) times for their proposed SAN-DCA-SAN service. (And AS's times were also selected partly based on the timing of the SAN-HNL-SAN tag-ons.)

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 53):
Not sure I follow, more than two proposals will have to be cut.

   I agree -- ????

bb


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 15794 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
B - Increase competition in one or more markets

Referring back to the original criteria, the only application I see which meets this criteria is F9. On page 42 of 44 on F9 application http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0029-0007 F9 proposal opens SAN, DEN, PHX, PDX LAX and SEA from COS.

This gives the DOT exactly what the proposal asks for Add to that the military connections to the Pentagon and each military service HQ in D.C. As an added bonus you also have the Olympic training center in the Springs.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 42):
I passed it on to our CRC folks and they've pulled it. File it under "agent error," most likely.

An over zealous programmer perhaps!



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 15722 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56):
Referring back to the original criteria, the only application I see which meets this criteria is F9.

WN's proposal, on page 57 (exhibit 206), also lists connections of DAL, HOU, HRL, LBB, ELP, PHX, LAS, LAX, OAK, SJC, and SAN(of course).



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 58, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 15540 times:

quote=usflyguy,reply=57][/quote

Does WN offer service to all of these locations from AUS?

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 57):
DAL, HOU, HRL, LBB, ELP, PHX, LAS, LAX, OAK, SJC

My understanding of the rule leads me to believe qualifying cities must be flown from the slot airport or AUS in WN case and as stated above must

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
A - Provide air transportation with domestic network benefits beyond the 1,250 mile perimeter

In your list DAL and HOU using statute miles does not meet the 1250 requirement from DCA. As airframes can be referred to ships they may squeak by using the nautical miles calculation. HRL is not loaded in my airport distance calculator. May options already exist between DCA to the greater Dallas and Houston area. I would go as far as saying the FAA intent in their use of the word "beyond" is to open westward destinations beyond the 1250 mile criteria. I'm not convinced DCA-AUS-DAL for example (fly West only to go East) meets the definition of beyond. With that said I learned along time ago to never say never. In a combined WN/FL I also can't help but to think how the routes FL flies from DCA may enter the equation.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 15524 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 55):
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 52):
AS's timing for SAN-DCA is nearly identical to WN's SAN-BWI.
One of WN's SAN-BWI flights... WN's times are always changing so on the next schedule, they could be an hour or more different.. I think a lot of the pax on the WN flights at these times are connectors so local fares to DC might not be to large a factor.

In fact, UA has SAN-IAD flights at very similar times as well.

And all three departing within yards of each other in the same terminal. It's funny how it all turned out.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 15538 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 58):
Referring back to the original criteria, the only application I see which meets this criteria is F9. On page 42 of 44 on F9 application http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0029-0007 F9 proposal opens SAN, DEN, PHX, PDX LAX and SEA from COS.

SAN, DEN, PHX, LAX and SEA all have nonstop service from DCA and many predict PDX will as well, leaving COS as the only "new" city via F9's proposed service.

Yes, WN serves all of those destinations non-stop from AUS.

As a side note, COS-DEN isn't exactly a west bound flight. And DCA-DEN already has non-stop service and is shorter in distance than DCA-COS.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 61, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 15502 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 58):
Does WN offer service to all of these locations from AUS?

Yes.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56):
F9 proposal opens SAN, DEN, PHX, PDX LAX and SEA from COS.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 58):
May options already exist between DCA to the greater Dallas and Houston area.

Of course, there already exist non-stop options from DCA to DEN, PHX, LAX & SEA. US will add DCA-SAN and AS has proposed DCA-PDX. Also, given the current schedule at COS, eastbound connections will only work from PHX and DEN.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56):
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
B - Increase competition in one or more markets

Referring back to the original criteria, the only application I see which meets this criteria is F9.

Most of the applications meet that criterion. VX will have connections at SFO to SEA/SAN/LAX/PDX. AS would have connections at PDX to several markets in WA/OR/CA/HI/AK. WN has the aforementioned markets from AUS.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 44):
You can fly DCA-SAN nonstop on US...

You can pull your fingernails out with pliers, too -- and that would probably be more pleasurable.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 15147 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 38):

Where is DCA going to fit Virgin America or any new carriers? Can WN share with AirTran at this point? Last time I saw A it was getting crowded...

The old CO gates in that weird B Concourse sideways-extension are getting emptier and emptier as UA learns how to turn planes faster at its C Concourse gates. There's probably room for both SY and VX there.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2411 posts, RR: 6
Reply 63, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15047 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 62):
The old CO gates in that weird B Concourse sideways-extension are getting emptier and emptier as UA learns how to turn planes faster at its C Concourse gates. There's probably room for both SY and VX there.

I think UA will be staying in this area, as the former Presidents Club is slated to be expanded and renovated to be the only United Club at the airport.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 15030 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 61):
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 44):You can fly DCA-SAN nonstop on US...
You can pull your fingernails out with pliers, too -- and that would probably be more pleasurable.

Now, now, US isn't NK.....yet.   

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 63):
I think UA will be staying in this area, as the former Presidents Club is slated to be expanded and renovated to be the only United Club at the airport.

Is that confirmed? I've heard a lot about how they will be staying there, but I wasn't sure if there was an official decision yet.


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14959 times:

Looks like someone didn't like that Alaska mistakenly was selling HNL-DCA tickets...

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0029-6187

I personally don't understand why this is something to get so worked up over, but to each his own.


User currently onlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1471 posts, RR: 10
Reply 66, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14784 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 65):
Looks like someone didn't like that Alaska mistakenly was selling HNL-DCA tickets...

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0029-6187

I personally don't understand why this is something to get so worked up over, but to each his own.

People got really worked up over FL doing the same thing with MDW-CUN....



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14673 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 65):

The complaint is not written very well. It seems to me if someone finds it necessary to officially whine to the DOT they would proof their their own document. Also the slot is SAN-DCA not HNL-DCA. The HNL segment as I understand it an add-on.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 68, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14602 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 63):
I think UA will be staying in this area, as the former Presidents Club is slated to be expanded and renovated to be the only United Club at the airport.
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 64):
Is that confirmed? I've heard a lot about how they will be staying there, but I wasn't sure if there was an official decision yet.

I hate that part of the airport and that security line. United operated a LOT more flights than Continental did, and that area is so cramped. I guess with DL pulling way down, that can be a better situation.

I've never been in the President's Club there but I liked the current United Club on the Mezz.

I don't know why they would want to shove the world's largest airline into the back corner of a hallway.

NS


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 69, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14497 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 65):
Looks like someone didn't like that Alaska mistakenly was selling HNL-DCA tickets...
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2012-0029-6187
I personally don't understand why this is something to get so worked up over, but to each his own.

All I can say is I hope this doesn't affect the DOT's decision (as in, they WERE going to award AS the route but now they won't?)
As was pointed out by Gent':

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 67):
...the slot is SAN-DCA not HNL-DCA. The HNL segment as I understand it an add-on.

I too wonder if the local segments were for sale as well -- DCA-SAN and the new times on the SAN-HNL segments? If not, and the only segment offered for sale was the thru segments (DCA-HNL-DCA), maybe that's slightly "less awful"... Also, the fact that the flights were apparently never offered on AS's site itself might increase the probablility that it was some sort of forgiveable mistake. I would bet (and sincerely hope) this will not be a big deal and cause any problems.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 61):
You can pull your fingernails out with pliers, too -- and that would probably be more pleasurable

Looks like we might have another vote for the AS service between DC and SAN?!  

  
bb


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14373 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 67):
Also the slot is SAN-DCA not HNL-DCA. The HNL segment as I understand it an add-on.

Right, but the only bookable option in SABRE was apparently HNL-DCA with the stop in SAN, which is why I mentioned HNL-DCA instead of SAN-DCA.


User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 71, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14331 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 69):
All I can say is I hope this doesn't affect the DOT's decision (as in, they WERE going to award AS the route but now they won't?)

I wouldn't worry about that - it didn't stop DOT from awarding FL/WN the CHI-CUN authority.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2411 posts, RR: 6
Reply 72, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14319 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 68):

I hate that part of the airport and that security line. United operated a LOT more flights than Continental did, and that area is so cramped. I guess with DL pulling way down, that can be a better situation.

I've never been in the President's Club there but I liked the current United Club on the Mezz.

As it stands right now, sCO actually has more flights out of DCA than sUA. Tomorrow, for example

8x EWR
8x IAH
5x CLE

16x ORD
1x DEN

DCA-SFO will be a wash, replacing one of the DCA-ORD frequencies. sUA has more capacity out of DCA, though.

The old Presidents Club at DCA is one of the best in the system, really a unique space. Spectacular views. Definitely worth checking out, great staff too.


User currently offlineSYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14204 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 49):

So I cheated a little bit and went into what I was really dreaming for a couple of routes!  
When looking though SunCountry and Alaska will still get routes from LasVegas and Portland. US Airways already has SanDiego, but I will go with someone out of SanFrancisco.
Colorado Springs do not forget there is the Air Force Academy in which who knows how big of a role that is playing in the mind of F9? To me though that seems to be more of a spring/summer seasonal route more or less in the overall end.
To me that fourth route will come out of California but I would prefer someone like Oakland or Ontario to get it and not one of the three really big major airports. I know that won't happen but it would be nice if it did!


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 74, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13795 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 70):
Right, but the only bookable option in SABRE was apparently HNL-DCA with the stop in SAN
Quoting SANFan (Reply 69):
I too wonder if the local segments were for sale as well -- DCA-SAN and the new times on the SAN-HNL segments? If not, and the only segment offered for sale was the thru segments (DCA-HNL-DCA), maybe that's slightly "less awful"...

Circuitous routing perhaps DCA-SEA-SAN-HNL or DCA-SEA-HNL provided the existing schedule allows it to be done in a single day.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 75, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13596 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 72):
The old Presidents Club at DCA is one of the best in the system, really a unique space. Spectacular views. Definitely worth checking out, great staff too.

I'll pop in there.... I'm planning to give that SFO-DCA a try if I can get a seat sometime that works.

But what about that gate space.... that's a face even a mother can't love.

NS

[Edited 2012-05-10 10:35:51]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 76, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13401 times:

The citizen letter to the DOT on its own wont change much, however I would strongly suggest Alaska notify the department of the error itself, and provide assurances that the flights were pulled, any tickets issued refunded, and its instituting a better process that such mistakes don't occur in the future. Ultimately show respect to the DOT importance AS places in the selection process.

In the case with AirTran, they themselves notified the DOT of the listing error which was caused when what was meant to be dummy flights were built to protect some crew pairings and instead were sent out into the live system allowing for tickets to be sold over a 3-day period. Within 2 days AirTran did a mea-culpa and apologized to the DOT that the flights were incorrectly posted due to an internal snafu.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 77, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12916 times:

Well, I guess we go back into "hold" mode on this... I really thought we were going to hear something this week. We unfortunately did have a bit of drama which I sincerely hope does not have any effect on the eventual decision.

The Bill was signed on Feb 14 so the 90-day deadline for resolution should be Monday, 5/14. But I don't suppose that sort of end-date is all that meaningful in DC.

Anyway, see you all again next week (?) right here and we'll again take up the vigil.

bb


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12707 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 77):
Well, I guess we go back into "hold" mode on this... I really thought we were going to hear something this week. We unfortunately did have a bit of drama which I sincerely hope does not have any effect on the eventual decision.

The Bill was signed on Feb 14 so the 90-day deadline for resolution should be Monday, 5/14. But I don't suppose that sort of end-date is all that meaningful in DC.

Anyway, see you all again next week (?) right here and we'll again take up the vigil.

bb

Who says this can't happen still today? Wouldn't they potentially wait until the end of the day to announce?


User currently offlineboberito6589 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 12620 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 64):
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 63):
I think UA will be staying in this area, as the former Presidents Club is slated to be expanded and renovated to be the only United Club at the airport.

Is that confirmed? I've heard a lot about how they will be staying there, but I wasn't sure if there was an official decision yet.

US said today that on July 11 US will pick up gates 27,29, and 31. The United Club on the Center Pier will also be rebranded as US Airways Club


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11836 times:

So today should be the day, yes? I'm also really surprised we haven't heard anything about the small-market slot currently held by US Airways to JAN.


What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 81, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11639 times:

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 79):
US said today that on July 11 US will pick up gates 27,29, and 31. The United Club on the Center Pier will also be rebranded as US Airways Club

Fair enough. I guess that settles it! I was surprised it took so long to see something formally announced on that - all I had seen was talk on here about it.


User currently offlinephilpdx From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11669 times:

Alaska gets PDX-DCA!

PDX-Reagan-National-direct-flights-151374075.html" target="_blank">http://www.kgw.com/news/Alaska-gets-...onal-direct-flights-151374075.html


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 11538 times:

Quoting philpdx (Reply 82):

The link wouldn't populate so here it is again. http://www.kgw.com/news/Alaska-gets-...onal-direct-flights-151374075.html



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 84, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11512 times:

It looks like it's happening folks!

Congrat's to Alaska Airlines, and to Portland! Not a tremendous surprise of course but still wonderful news.

  

bb


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11311 times:

Quoting philpdx (Reply 82):
Alaska gets PDX-DCA!

Can we infer that Alaska did NOT get SAN? Seems like they would have announced both but who knows...



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 86, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11281 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 85):
Can we infer that Alaska did NOT get SAN? Seems like they would have announced both but who knows...

I wouldn't say we can draw that conclusion - the source is Portland-based and does not mention any of the other three slots, so they may well have only announced their hometown slot regardless.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 87, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 85):
Can we infer that Alaska did NOT get SAN? Seems like they would have announced both but who knows...

The news comes from the DC office of an Oregon Senator so that's all that's reported here -- all this article is interested in. I am trying hard to find more news from the DOT but not having any luck...

I've still got my    for a certain other route!

bb


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 88, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11182 times:

Looks like Cantwell's office jumped the gun here ... the fact that they have been told suggests the Order is probably about to become public ...

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11134 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 85):
Can we infer that Alaska did NOT get SAN?

A Senatorial nudge from Oregon I suppose. As unilateral and bilateral decisions go no other carrier that I'm aware of was competing for PDX as a origin point; whereas multiple carriers have expressed interest at SAN.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11073 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 87):
I am trying hard to find more news from the DOT but not having any luck...

I signed up for email alerts from regulations.gov for this DCA slot decision. I have not received any updates as of yet. With that said DOT may notify only after COB (Close of Business) daily.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 91, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10972 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 90):
I signed up for email alerts from regulations.gov for this DCA slot decision. I have not received any updates as of yet. With that said DOT may notify only after COB (Close of Business) daily

I keep checking Docket 29 for any updates but then I don't know if anything would normally show up there.

I trust you, or someone, will let us know when word is received. It would be very much appreciated as I for one am sitting here unable to do much of anything until I learn more!!!!

  

bb


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 92, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11204 times:

DOT Selects Four Cities to Receive New Nonstop Service to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood today announced that new nonstop flights will be available to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport from four cities that, because of distance, had earlier been ineligible for nonstop service.
The U.S. Department of Transportation selected Alaska Airlines for service to Portland, Ore.; JetBlue Airways for San Juan, Puerto Rico; Southwest Airlines for Austin, Texas; and Virgin America for San Francisco. This is Virgin America’s first service at Reagan National. The other carriers currently have only limited service at the airport. Each city will receive one new nonstop roundtrip per day.
“These new flights will provide convenient nonstop service to our nation’s capital for travelers from four major cities,” Secretary LaHood said. “The flights will increase competition for airlines serving Washington, which can lead to lower fares for consumers.”
In its order, the Department said the proposals from the four carriers selected merit award under the statute.
The new services were made available by the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, signed by President Obama on Feb. 14. The law created eight daily slot exemptions at Reagan National for airlines with little or no service at the airport to serve cities farther than 1,250 miles from Washington. Airlines cannot fly between Reagan National and cities beyond this limit unless Congress passes a law to authorize it. A slot, or slot exemption, is the right to take off or land at an airport where operations are limited. Two slots are needed for a round-trip flight, and the law provided for four new round trips.
Unlike traditional slots, slot exemptions cannot be transferred, except through an air carrier merger or acquisition, and the flights can be operated only on routes proposed by the carriers and approved by the Department.
The new law also allowed four large carriers already serving Reagan National to exchange a total of eight slots for flights within the perimeter for an equal number of slot exemptions to permit nonstop flights beyond the perimeter. As a result, American Airlines will trade one round-trip flight to Dallas-Fort Worth for a flight to Los Angeles, Delta Airlines Lines will trade one round-trip flight to New York LaGuardia Airport for a flight to Salt Lake City, United Airlines will trade one round-trip flight to Chicago O’Hare for a flight to San Francisco, and US Airways will trade one round-trip flight to Dallas-Fort Worth for a flight to San Diego.
Since Congress first created slot exemptions at Reagan National in 2000, the Department has been authorized to award 40 exemptions for beyond-perimeter flights, which have permitted 20 new round-trip operations.
The selection order and carrier applications are available at www.regulations.gov, docket DOT-OST-2012-0029.


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10984 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 87):
The news comes from the DC office of an Oregon Senator so that's all that's reported here -- all this article is interested in.

Thanks SANFan etc for the clarification, makes sense.

Can we start taking bets on how many excess threads will be started beyond this one? (I.e. potential thread titles: "[Individual Airline] gets/does not get [Particular Route]," "What do DCA slot awards and/or today's moon phase mean for AA/US Merger???" or (two weeks from now) "RUMOR: AS - PDX-DCA????" All of these threads will begin with some variation of "Not sure if this has been discussed on here but...")



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 94, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11078 times:

The U.S. Department of Transportation selected Alaska Airlines for service to Portland, Ore.; JetBlue Airways for San Juan, Puerto Rico; Southwest Airlines for Austin, Texas; and Virgin America for San Francisco. This is Virgin America’s first service at Reagan National.

User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10966 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 94):
This is Virgin America’s first service at Reagan National.

While I no doubt guess that Virgin is happy to have this service - it would seem a single daily flight would be quite expensive to operate, when you have no other service from DCA. I wonder if the competition from UA will impact their ability to operate the flight profitably.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 96, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10904 times:

Congrats to the winning routes and carriers.

bb


User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 97, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 11074 times:

So, to summarize:

AS: PDX
VX: SFO (1x)
B6: SJU
WN: AUS

Pretty much what I and many others on here thought it would be.

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 95):
While I no doubt guess that Virgin is happy to have this service - it would seem a single daily flight would be quite expensive to operate, when you have no other service from DCA. I wonder if the competition from UA will impact their ability to operate the flight profitably.

VX doesn't need to spend that much money to operate the DCA station. Airport staff can be outsourced. Gate can be rented. Not much else needed to operate. AS has a lot of 1x daily stations and doesn't seem to have a problem with it.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 98, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10733 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 1):
Purely my guesses :

AC - definitely no. too protectionist.
Alaska - PDX
Frontier - none, and COS is not a crucial destination
B6 - SJU
WN - AUS+SAN
Sun Country - probably not
VX - SFO
Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 97):
So, to summarize:

AS: PDX
VX: SFO (1x)
B6: SJU
WN: AUS

Not bad, 4 for 4   


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 99, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10844 times:

DOT Press Release Link
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2012/dot5512.html



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 100, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10577 times:

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 97):
So, to summarize:

AS: PDX
VX: SFO (1x)
B6: SJU
WN: AUS
Quoting Rookinla (Reply 23):
But I can assure you that what was ticketed today was Alaska DCA-SAN-HNL round trip direct...one flight number and no plane changes.

So, what happened to your ticket that you booked?

[Edited 2012-05-14 09:59:50]

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 101, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10502 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 92):
In its order, the Department said the proposals from the four carriers selected merit award under the statute.

Reading between the lines I'd be interested in knowing what criteria defines "merit award" procedures. It sounds like some of the criteria may have been disregarded or set aside in the decision.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2788 posts, RR: 32
Reply 102, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10471 times:

So when can the small market slots be expected to be announced?


No info
User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10471 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 101):
Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 92):
In its order, the Department said the proposals from the four carriers selected merit award under the statute.

Reading between the lines I'd be interested in knowing what criteria defines "merit award" procedures. It sounds like some of the criteria may have been disregarded or set aside in the decision.

I think it's saying the proposals merit award, as in they're worthy of award, with merit as verb... a clunky way of saying it, no doubt...



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 3
Reply 104, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10530 times:

So SJU is deemed superior to Vancouver.....I thought the Jetblue bid required both AUS and SJU.

User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10501 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 104):

No. If they didn't get SJU, they didn't want AUS.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 106, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10498 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 104):
So SJU is deemed superior to Vancouver

This doesn't surprise me at all, San Juan is a part of the USA and the route is to be flown by an American carrier. I think both of those factors likely worked against AC/YVR in trying to compete with all of the other proposals.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 107, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10358 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 104):
So SJU is deemed superior to Vancouver.....I thought the Jetblue bid required both AUS and SJU.

Not trying to sound political here, but if it were a US-based carrier bidding YVR, the story might have changed.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 108, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10311 times:

While in my opinion SAN could have supported more than one flight, I'm positive that governmental support for such disappeared once US opted for DCA-SAN. If US had chosen say, LAX instead of SAN, maybe AS would have gotten both PDX and SAN (who both deserved a flight). Let's just hope that US doesn't switch the SAN flight elsewhere, or SAN will be once again without a DCA flight.

Overall I think the results were fair. I doubt UA is thrilled at VX being accepted but some of those lawmakers might want to try the VX product personally.


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10261 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 107):
Not trying to sound political here, but if it were a US-based carrier bidding YVR, the story might have changed.

I wonder if the fact that SEA was so close played a role in this? Also, does DCA have any type of customs facility? Would YVR pax be required to be cleared prior to departure to DCA?


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10190 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 104):
So SJU is deemed superior to Vancouver.....I thought the Jetblue bid required both AUS and SJU.

I don't think it's a judgment on either city per se... I suspect that if we had been talking about AC vs. several airlines that already had DCA service, AC might have had more of a chance... but the powers-that-be probably couldn't see giving AC another flight at the expense of a U.S. carrier (!) with no presence at DCA... and I suspect if there were two more slots to give out AC would probably have won out over F9 and Sun Country.

(Personally I would rather have seen AC/Vancouver get picked over Virgin America/SFO just because I think it's a bit absurd to shove an entirely new carrier with one daily flight and (due to slot controls) little potential for growth into the already-crowded DCA terminals just to prove some point about having a bunch of airlines there, but that's just me.)



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 111, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10228 times:

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 104):
So SJU is deemed superior to Vancouver.

When I first saw it I thought AC application for YVR-DCA was unique. In my mind AC application to fly to DCA would be better handled under the U.S. Canada bilateral flying agreements through the Canadian Air Ministry, the DOT and the Department of State.

In that AS already has a slot award between SEA-DCA given YVR three or so hour drive excluding Customs and Border Protection clearance into the U.S. gives western Canada a viable option for travel to the Reagan airport. It also allows for an extra layer of screening as the DHS is concerned.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 112, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10080 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 109):

I wonder if the fact that SEA was so close played a role in this? Also, does DCA have any type of customs facility? Would YVR pax be required to be cleared prior to departure to DCA?

I doubt SEA's proximity was much of a consideration, it would've been more the fact that the route provided absolutely no connectivity to anywhere in the USA beyond YVR and wasn't served by an American carrier. The route's purpose would have been to serve the not-particularly-large DCA-YVR O&D traffic and provide additional connecting TPAC competition. Particularly with regards to O&D, it's telling that the WAS-YVR market is apparently not large enough to justify any non-stop service to IAD or BWI today, whereas all the other markets applied for do have that.

In terms of DCA, it does not have a customs facility capable of handling commercial flights, but all regularly scheduled transborder flights at YVR are pre-cleared.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 113, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10035 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 111):
In that AS already has a slot award between SEA-DCA given YVR three or so hour drive excluding Customs and Border Protection clearance into the U.S. gives western Canada a viable option for travel to the Reagan airport. It also allows for an extra layer of screening as the DHS is concerned.
Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 109):
I wonder if the fact that SEA was so close played a role in this?

Don't think SEA really played a role. By the time you factor in the drive and traffic jam, one would have arrived DC earlier if he did YVR-ORD-DCA than drive to SEA then take AS.


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9922 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 113):
Don't think SEA really played a role. By the time you factor in the drive and traffic jam, one would have arrived DC earlier if he did YVR-ORD-DCA than drive to SEA then take AS.

Maybe, but you wouldn't have to pay the international taxes that causes many canadians to drive to BLI when flying to other points in the US (Allegiant, AS, F9 all serve BLI to mostly leisure destinations).


User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 115, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 110):

(Personally I would rather have seen AC/Vancouver get picked over Virgin America/SFO just because I think it's a bit absurd to shove an entirely new carrier with one daily flight and (due to slot controls) little potential for growth into the already-crowded DCA terminals just to prove some point about having a bunch of airlines there, but that's just me.)

Absurd or not..Virgin America KNEW that situation would occur if they won the award to fly DCA-SFO. Virgin did not have to apply, they did so knowing they would have at the time limited ability to expand, and DOT acted on it because it met the qualifications. (That is also why VX asked for 2 slots, not one). This is not DOT to blame, but Virgin for "getting themselves in this situation" as you state.

Congratulations to all of the airlines who won, I love these choices and save for SLC, every single city got a new route to DCA and the destinations reached by DCA has expanded. A win for all involved in my opinion.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 116, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9821 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 114):
Maybe, but you wouldn't have to pay the international taxes that causes many canadians to drive to BLI when flying to other points in the US (Allegiant, AS, F9 all serve BLI to mostly leisure destinations).

True, but isn't driving to BLI only a third of the time it takes to drive to SEA ?


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9643 times:

So I know the code-sharing issues that exist, but in terms of operations at DCA can WN just use the existing AirTran people/space/etc for their AUS flight?


What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 118, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9629 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 116):
True, but isn't driving to BLI only a third of the time it takes to drive to SEA ?

The mileage between Bellingham and Seattle is 95 miles down I-5 plus an additional 14 miles in that SEATAC sits some 14 miles south of the Seattle city center. We drove from the boarder crossing to the Seattle ferry piers off of Alaskan Way in an hour and twenty minutes. I want to say Vancouver is exactly and hour north of the board crossing.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 119, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9592 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 117):
So I know the code-sharing issues that exist, but in terms of operations at DCA can WN just use the existing AirTran people/space/etc for their AUS flight?

That is possible, from what I understand Southwest Employees will be working the Intl FL Flights out of SNA since that is not a PMFL station.

I'd imagine FL People may work DCA-AUS but since it's being used by a 737-800 which is WN Metal, it has to be used under WN's CS2 program which right now only WN People know how to use.

It is possible WN may just convert DCA into a WN station especially if they win DCA-OKC also.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 120, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9538 times:

Reading through the DOT order here were the pertinent and the persuasive argument for each winner.

Ultimately the DOT found all the options would enhance nonstop options, positively impact competition and produce public benefits with added capacity and service options.


Alaska to PDX
o First nonstop to DCA’s 4th largest O&D market
o AS today has limited ability to serve local PDX market on existing DCA services due very high LF.
o Ability to offer connections to multiple markets in PNW via PDX.
o AS is a limited incumbent at DCA
o AS previous positive impact on competition at DCA

JetBlue to SJU
o Enhance travel options and link DCA with a new region
o To date all beyond perimeter slots have been used to Western US
o JetBlue is an established low-fare carrier offering positive competitive pressure in markets
o Leisure oriented market accrues public benefits as well.

Southwest to AUS
o First state capital nonstop link to DCA
o Enhance competition in a market where 90% of demand served primarily through hubs of incumbent carriers
o DC-AUS has one of the highest local fare markets today.
o Southwest a well established low-fare carrier and is expected to exert competitive pressure for public benefit.
o Solid history of service to a growing market like AUS with beyond connections.

Virgin America to SFO
o New entrant air carrier at DCA
o SFO large market that can support 2 nonstop flights
o VX can enhance travel options
o Positive impact on competition producing public benefits and lower fares.

=

[Edited 2012-05-14 12:08:13]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7173 posts, RR: 13
Reply 121, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9435 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 120):
JetBlue to PDX
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o JetBlue – 1x DCA-SJU A320; 1x DCA-AUS E190

I'm confused?


User currently offlineflyiguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9466 times:

JetBlue to PDX , I think you need to edit and put SJU...

Fly



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 123, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9392 times:

I'm surprised PDX was the 4th largest O&D market out of DCA. That's a strangely large number.

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2114 posts, RR: 3
Reply 124, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9381 times:

Quoting steex (Reply 112):
In terms of DCA, it does not have a customs facility capable of handling commercial flights, but all regularly scheduled transborder flights at YVR are pre-cleared.

Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility. AS found that out the hard way flying YVR-SNA several years ago (before there was a FIS at SNA).


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 125, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9354 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 120):
oFirst state capital nonstop link to DCA

There's lots of state capitals with nonstop links to DCA: ATL, ALB, BOS, PVD, BDL. Unless you mean Texas' first state capital link to DCA.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 120):
oSFO large market that can support 2 nonstop flights

This is ironic to me. UA has barely started their nonstop service and already DOT is saying there's room for two nonstops...


User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9320 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 124):
Quoting steex (Reply 112):
In terms of DCA, it does not have a customs facility capable of handling commercial flights, but all regularly scheduled transborder flights at YVR are pre-cleared.

Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility. AS found that out the hard way flying YVR-SNA several years ago (before there was a FIS at SNA).

DCA has flights to/from Canada as well as NAS (which might be seasonal, not sure, and I hope I didn't just dream that up or something). At any rate, YVR would have been doable.



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 127, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9368 times:

And the reasons why others were not selected.


Air Canada to YVR
o Smallish local market compared to most other proposals
o Competitive effects not as robust as other markets
o Previous unsuccessful attempts to sustain IAD-YVR service
o Already serves DCA from 3 Canada markets and can connect YVR traffic via

Alaska to SAN
o AS preference for PDX as #1 choice
o Does not offer as much network benefits as AS can via PDX
o New US Airways nonstop to SAN
o Also awarded SWA service with AUS will offer same plane link and fares to SAN

Frontier to COS
o Small size of local market. Smallest of all applicant proposals
o Does not provide claimed network benefits as Frontiers COS “Focus City” has not commenced yet, nor will proposed schedules even connect to a DCA service.
o For beyond SAN service, F9 already connects SAN via DEN and unlikely to offer new low fares.

JetBlue to AUS
o Request by B6 for SJU award first
o AUS does merit slot exemption
o But scale of benefits offered by SWA to AUS is greateter

Sun Country to LAS
o LAS already has a DCA nonstop link
o No beyond LAS network opportunities by SY



Also interesting to note, the DOT made mention that it felt the Virgin America argument for being awarded two slot pair was very compelling, however due to only four-pairs being available the department did not wish to rob any of the other selected markets from gaining the service.
IMO this sets up VX nicely for any future award of additional slots at DCA.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 128, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9405 times:

WN award of AUS-DCA brings to the surface another interesting thought. Not considering the merger with FL. WN has stated many times over the years; I believe following their entry into Jackson (JAN) WN corporate mantra did not allow them to serve a market unless they could fly it at least five times a day; and definitely not once a day. I suppose the never say never analogy gets flushed this day.


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 129, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9291 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 125):
This is ironic to me. UA has barely started their nonstop service and already DOT is saying there's room for two nonstops...

I don't think you mean ironic ... and, seriously, DCA-SFO is a huge market .. not only can it support two flights on two carriers, it could easily support several more nonstop departures from DCA ...


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 130, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9244 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 111):
When I first saw it I thought AC application for YVR-DCA was unique. In my mind AC application to fly to DCA would be better handled under the U.S. Canada bilateral flying agreements through the Canadian Air Ministry, the DOT and the Department of State.

Air Canada applied, as the bilateral treats Canadian carriers the same as US airlines when it comes to things like slots at places like DCA, LGA etc.

There is zero need to handle this any other way as folks like WestJet, Air Canada, Porter are free to compete on their own merits thanks to a liberal agreement between the countries, without the need to trump or hide behind a flag.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 111):
In that AS already has a slot award between SEA-DCA given YVR three or so hour drive excluding Customs and Border Protection clearance into the U.S. gives western Canada a viable option for travel to the Reagan airport. It also allows for an extra layer of screening as the DHS is concerned.

Why would SEA have anything to do with it? Its two totally different markets.

Using your logic then PDX should not have gotten a flight either as SEA is certainly within same driving time.

Quoting enilria (Reply 121):
JetBlue to PDX , I think you need to edit and put SJU...

Fixed.

Quoting catiii (Reply 125):
There's lots of state capitals with nonstop links to DCA: ATL, ALB, BOS, PVD, BDL. Unless you mean Texas' first state capital link to DCA.

Yes obviously Texas since the header was Austin.

Don't underestimate the politics also. Imo quite important for a big and influential state like Texas to have such a link.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 131, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 124):
Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility.
DCA, as I mention, does have a customs facility. The DCA customs staff could attend to pre-cleared flights if necessary in emergency, but certainly aren't staffed to regularly service commercial flight. As SouthernDC9 notes,

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 126):
DCA has flights to/from Canada as well as NAS (which might be seasonal, not sure, and I hope I didn't just dream that up or something). At any rate, YVR would have been doable.

The difference with SNA was that it had no FIS whatsoever, including for general aviation. However, even that obstacle has now been overcome, as they began allowing AC to fly SNA non-stop with a plan in place for diversion to LAX in the event that customs service was necessary.

[Edited 2012-05-14 12:26:17]

User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 132, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9045 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 128):
WN award of AUS-DCA brings to the surface another interesting thought. Not considering the merger with FL. WN has stated many times over the years; I believe following their entry into Jackson (JAN) WN corporate mantra did not allow them to serve a market unless they could fly it at least five times a day; and definitely not once a day. I suppose the never say never analogy gets flushed this day.

Funny how access to DCA will change their tune!


User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 133, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8835 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 120):
Alaska to PDX
o First nonstop to DCA’s 4th largest O&D market
o AS today has limited ability to serve local PDX market on existing DCA services due very high LF.
o Ability to offer connections to multiple markets in PNW via PDX.
o AS is a limited incumbent at DCA
o AS previous positive impact on competition at DCA
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 123):
I'm surprised PDX was the 4th largest O&D market out of DCA. That's a strangely large number

Perhaps PDX is the 4th largest beyond perimeter market? It can't be the 4th largest O&D market in general.

Notable that the DOT mentioned AS's high load factor on SEA-DCA. A 3rd SEA-DCA flight would be well-used, I believe, if more exemptions are ever available.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 134, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8794 times:

Quoting steex (Reply 112):
In terms of DCA, it does not have a customs facility capable of handling commercial flights, but all regularly scheduled transborder flights at YVR are pre-cleared.
Quoting chrisair (Reply 124):
Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility. AS found that out the hard way flying YVR-SNA several years ago (before there was a FIS at SNA).

Why does this come up so often? Of course there is a customs facility, and AC serves DCA already.

NS


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 3
Reply 135, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8807 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 127):
Already serves DCA from 3 Canada markets and can connect YVR traffic via

Are you suggesting that to get to YVR from DCA is quite convenient because AC and US fly from DCA to Canadian cities.....Not sure I get the point here.

the best way to connect to YVR from DCA is probably via ORD and MSP. Not via YYZ, YUL or YOW.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 136, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8590 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 124):
Doesn't matter. All airports with trans-boarder flights need to have a customs facility. AS found that out the hard way flying YVR-SNA several years ago (before there was a FIS at SNA).

Not true. And anyway, from the MWAA website:

http://www.mwaa.com/reagan/1269.htm

Customs at Reagan National

Reagan National does not have a U.S. Customs facility onsite for the inspection of International passengers

All passengers on flights to Reagan National from Canada, the Bahamas, Aruba and Bermuda must clear customs at the flight's departure airport. When the flight reaches Reagan National, all passengers will deplane into the Terminal in the same manner as domestic arriving flights.


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 137, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8587 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 134):
Why does this come up so often? Of course there is a customs facility, and AC serves DCA already.

DCA does not have a customs facility .. All international flights into DCA are pre-cleared (Canada and Caribbean) from airports that have U.S. customs and border patrol on site (i.e. most larger Canadian airports) ...


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 138, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8553 times:

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 133):
Perhaps PDX is the 4th largest beyond perimeter market? It can't be the 4th largest O&D market in general.

Yes beyond perimeter, that is what these slot exemption competition was for.

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 135):
Are you suggesting that to get to YVR from DCA is quite convenient because AC and US fly from DCA to Canadian cities.....Not sure I get the point here.

Indeed. In the DOT's eyes, AC can route its YVR-DCA pax via existing YUL, YYZ or YOW service.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 139, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8569 times:

Press releases are out:

JetBlue

"It's a great day for JetBlue as we further expand our low fare presence in two of our most rapidly growing cities, Washington, D.C., and San Juan, with new capital-to-capital service," said Rob Land, senior vice president of government affairs and associate general counsel at JetBlue.
"Today's award by the Department of Transportation further underscores that despite being a small player at Reagan National, JetBlue has quickly been able to stimulate traffic, lower fares, and garner significant support in the capital region for our unique brand of customer service."
"JetBlue's new San Juan-to-D.C. direct service will advance Puerto Rico's position as the premier U.S. hub in the Caribbean, boost traveler choice, and inject new competition into the market," Puerto Rico Gov. Luis Fortuno said. "These new low-fare flights between two capital cities will increase Puerto Rico's competitiveness as we continue our drive to be the best destination for business and tourism in the region."


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblu...d-slots-fly-capital-163400117.html


Virgin America

"We are pleased to have the opportunity to bring our unique brand of service to this underserved route – and to better connect one of the world's leading economies to our nation's capital," said David Cush, President and CEO of Virgin America. " Thanks to the outpouring of community support for our application from Bay Area elected officials, civic groups and business organizations and the DOT's decision today, we will finally be able to provide local flyers and businesses with more choice and meaningful low fare competition."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/virgin...rded-nonstop-flight-163800180.html


Alaska

"Providing residents of the greater Portland area with convenient nonstop service to the closest airport to our nation's capital has been a priority for us for a long time and we're delighted this day has come," said Brad Tilden, Alaska Air Group's chief executive officer-elect. "We thank the DOT for their vote of confidence in Alaska Airlines."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska...s-approval-portland-193700284.html


Southwest

"Southwest Airlines will now move forward with our plans to provide low-fare service between our home state capitol, Austin, TX, and Washington, D.C. We will have additional details on fares and flights soon and look forward adding Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport to our route map this summer.
"We greatly appreciate the strong support we received for this route from the state of Texas - including elected officials at the federal, state and local level - as well as our Employees and Customers throughout the United States."


http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...outhwest-airlines-wins-washin.html



Next step is for carriers to work with the FAA to secure their exact time slots.

Service must commence no later than Sept. 8.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecanyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8499 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 132):
Funny how access to DCA will change their tune!



Not quite. Considering Airtran (a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest Airlines) already does more than 5 flights a day from DCA, the DCA-AUS flight while not be operated alone. It doesn't really matter what color the planes are (and to that point the painting process has already begun), or what the agents uniforms say, the money all goes into the same pot. The mantra stays the same.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8456 times:

Basically the highest seeds won and no major upsets and distributed evenly to the largest and most stable airlines aka neither Alaska, Jetblue, or virgin getting two slots. Seems fair they gave one slot to each airline with good bids and are allowing a new carrier into dca. It does look like vx is a pretty sure thing if they ever do a beyond perimeter exemption again but it may be a very long time if ever for that.

They did allocate these in a fair and balanced way in the end imho no airline got more than one, all good city choices, frontier I think is just too risky to fold and got msn, sun country too small, and air Canada is not a us airline.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8358 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 132):

SJD is starting with 1 daily flight and MEX will have 2. DSM will have 2 and CAK will have 3.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8310 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 130):
Why would SEA have anything to do with it? Its two totally different markets.

I think you missed my point. AS has an existing SEA-DCA beyond perimeter slot and is fairly close to YVR. On the tourism front both countries offer sail/motor coach tours; from the Canadian side Vancouver-Victoria-Seattle-Vancouver. On the U.S. side Grey-line for one offers it Seattle-Victoria-Vancover-Seattle. there are also some rail options. I've arrived at SEA many-many times and have seen numerous motor coaches outside of the airport with destination Vancouver signage. I'm sure it is the same at least seasonally during the Vancouver cruise ship season. Keeping in mind that more and more sailings embark out of the Port of Seattle.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 130):
Using your logic then PDX should not have gotten a flight either as SEA is certainly within same driving time.

Crossing a state line vs. a countries border; be it Canada is significantly different. Even more so since the passport requirement went into effect a few years ago. If the CBP doesn't like your answers you are also prone to a vehicle search. Excluding the traffic at the wrong time of day of course for those not in the know about secondary routes. Yes the mileage would be about the same.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 144, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8294 times:

No real surprises with the slot winners. There was no way anyone was going to get more than 1 slot as the DOT likes to spread the love as best as possible.

User currently offlinemd3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8231 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 134):
Why does this come up so often? Of course there is a customs facility, and AC serves DCA already.
Quoting catiii (Reply 136):
Not true. And anyway, from the MWAA website:

http://www.mwaa.com/reagan/1269.htm

Customs at Reagan National

Reagan National does not have a U.S. Customs facility onsite for the inspection of International passengers

All passengers on flights to Reagan National from Canada, the Bahamas, Aruba and Bermuda must clear customs at the flight's departure airport. When the flight reaches Reagan National, all passengers will deplane into the Terminal in the same manner as domestic arriving flights.
Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 137):
DCA does not have a customs facility .. All international flights into DCA are pre-cleared (Canada and Caribbean) from airports that have U.S. customs and border patrol on site (i.e. most larger Canadian airports) ...

The confusion is really in people's perception of the word "facility." There are a couple USCBP agents at DCA in a small closet of an office, stationed there for emergency purposes, and to allow pre-cleared international flights to operate to/from Canada, The Bahams, and Bermuda.

There are no formal customs facilities to process inbound, uncleared foreign nationals.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 8213 times:

No airline had a shot at winning more than one slot with the lone exception of vx and they didn't even get it as a new airline. No real surprises basically the four best cities with the four most stable airlines each got one exemption. Frontier got Madison let's remember so they did pickup a in perimeter slot. If there is another beyond perimeter exemption it looks like virgin is likely but I'm not sure there will be one anytime soon or ever. They have given out quite a few here recently

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 147, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 8059 times:

Quoting md3 (Reply 145):
There are a couple USCBP agents at DCA in a small closet of an office, stationed there for emergency purposes, and to allow pre-cleared international flights to operate to/from Canada, The Bahams, and Bermuda.

Perhaps that is what I mean. I've personally met CBP agents that work at DCA.

NS


User currently offlinemd3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 8053 times:

I think all four awarded today are great additions, and on great carriers for the market.

Looking nowat the cities with beyond-perimeter exemptions from DCA, it makes me wonder if or when there will be a next round. All the major MSA's are covered at least.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=sea-dca-pdx-dca-sfo-dca-lax-dca-san-dca-phx-dca-las-dca-slc-dca-den-dca-aus-dca-sju&R=1250mi%40dca&MS=wls&MR=540&MX=720x360&PM=*

[Edited 2012-05-14 16:16:57]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 149, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 8042 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 143):
I think you missed my point. AS has an existing SEA-DCA beyond perimeter slot and is fairly close to YVR.

No I dont think I missed your point. The point should be that SEA and YVR are two separate markets, not the least because they are in different countries, but they have different hub airlines and unique individual catchment areas.

Using you logic then, San Diego should not have received service either as its mere 100-miles from LA.

Air Canada's selling point was timing the proposed DCA flight to utilize YVR strength as a gateway across the Pacific. Unfortunately for them, the DOT focused in on the relative small local O&D demand for the route, and AC's previous failure to hang onto IAD-YVR service.

Quoting md3 (Reply 145):
The confusion is really in people's perception of the word "facility.

  . DCA like LGA, SNA another other airports that host pre-cleared international flights have contingency plans in place if needed to segregate, hold, and rescreen passengers if ever needed.

For example in LGA case several end gates at one of the concourses would be taped off, and passengers held on the aircraft until CBP agents arrive from other ports, and then the baggage and passengers would cleared again inside the concourse.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 150, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 8012 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 128):
WN award of AUS-DCA brings to the surface another interesting thought. Not considering the merger with FL. WN has stated many times over the years; I believe following their entry into Jackson (JAN) WN corporate mantra did not allow them to serve a market unless they could fly it at least five times a day; and definitely not once a day. I suppose the never say never analogy gets flushed this day.

Once the FL/WN merger goes thru WN will serve DCA 5 or more times a day.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 151, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 7934 times:

Quoting md3 (Reply 148):
Looking nowat the cities with beyond-perimeter exemptions from DCA, it makes me wonder if or when there will be a next round. All the major MSA's are covered at least.

You raise a very good point - now that all the big fish are taken care of, how will DOT proceed in future slot exemptions? I think it gets much more interesting, because the priorities are much less clear - that SFO should get service in this round over COS makes sense, but at some point adding to LAX and SFO won't cut it andothers will have more of a shot (e.g., SAT, SJC, SMF).


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 152, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7881 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 149):
No I dont think I missed your point. The point should be that SEA and YVR are two separate markets, not the least because they are in different countries, but they have different hub airlines and unique individual catchment areas.

Not to mention are a 3 hour drive from each other with no traffic - no closer than the cluster of massive international airports between NY and DC.

NS


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 153, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7833 times:

Quoting md3 (Reply 145):
The confusion is really in people's perception of the word "facility.

Good point I know of several airports who have CBP agents on call who must be able to respond within an hour. They do no have offices at the airport.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 149):
Using you logic then, San Diego should not have received service either as its mere 100-miles from LA.
DCA and LGA are slot controlled. IMO the DCA more prevalent in that those slots are approved/controlled by the Congress. The playing field changes at that point. Until US swapped for DFW for SAN six or so weeks ago I would go as far as saying SAN was in the same boat. I guess we can only agree to disagree.

[Edited 2012-05-14 17:18:06]

[Edited 2012-05-14 17:21:22]


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently onlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5459 posts, RR: 6
Reply 154, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7831 times:

Quite surprised by SJU. A little flash of bureaucratic independence and rebellion to assign slots to a place without a congresscritter. I thought it was a no-brainer that all the slots would be awarded to places with voting congressional representation, with an eye toward the members' clout and likely future length of tenure.

The other three are no-brainers.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 152):
Not to mention are a 3 hour drive from each other with no traffic - no closer than the cluster of massive international airports between NY and DC.

If no traffic and you get across the border without a wait, it's only a shade over 2 hours. Still, SEA had nothing to do with YVR not getting the slot -- YVR not being a U.S. city or offering any connectivity had to do with YVR not getting the slot.