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Future Of The 767 & A330?  
User currently offlineSWALUV From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 113 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11086 times:

Hi,
The 767 is and was a very popular aircraft for many airlines. the 767 in total recieved 1,090 order for the 762, 763, and 764.
But with the low orders for the 767-400 will this be the last varrient of the 767? Also the A330, which is a direct competitor to the 767, has posted orders for 1,189 Aircraft, but has only a few aircraft ordered for almost half of the first year of 2012. Other Airlines like HA have ordered and are ordering A330 to phase out there ever aging fleet of 767, so will we see other airlines, like AA, US, DL, maybe UA (fingers crossed) ordering A330 to phase out there aging 767 fleet?

- Has the A330 peaked at its highest glory?
- Will this be the last 767 version ever built?
- How much longer will the A330 be in production?
- What is the future of the major 767 fleet like AA, DL, UA?
- Will we see a NEO version of the A330?
- Will we see a MAX version of the 767 or will Boeing go back to the drawing board and redo the 767?

Sorry for all the questions.

PS: Thanks  

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11119 times:
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Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Has the A330 peaked at its highest glory?

It's probably on the peak side of the bell curve.



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will this be the last 767 version ever built?

The 767 is getting a new model - the 767-2C, which will be used as the foundation for the KC-46 tanker.


Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- How much longer will the A330 be in production?

I imagine decades as a freighter.



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- What is the future of the major 767 fleet like AA, DL, UA?

Replaced with 787-8s.



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see a NEO version of the A330?


I do not believe so.



Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see a MAX version of the 767 or will Boeing go back to the drawing board and redo the 767?

I do not believe we will see a MAX version of the 767 because the 787 has replaced it in Boeing's model line up.


User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 11081 times:

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see a MAX version of the 767 or will Boeing go back to the drawing board and redo the 767?

You mean like a 787   . The only reason the 767 is still in production is because of military orders. They've been able to get some other orders but the 787 is a really good replacement, although with longer range.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Has the A330 peaked at its highest glory?

I would think so. Airbus chose not to replace the A330 directly but rather to have an aircraft that replaces the A330-300 and B777. By doing this they didn't directly go against the Dreamliner. I guess they have more belief in the larger aircraft market.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see a NEO version of the A330?

Although Airbus has hinted at this I doubt it will happen. A new engine option competing against the brand new Dreamliner seems unlikely to me.

Although the A350 will be an incredibly compelling plane Airbus doesn't have a direct competitor with the B787-8 and the A350-800 is considered by many to be less efficent compared to the B787-9. I'm not saying this is true as the A350-800 is not ready. Maybe they can make it just as compelling as the Dreamliner. Airbus execs must spend significant time thinking about the fact that their product line is missing a large chunk.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3797 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11028 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
US, DL

DL and US do fly the A330, so does HA. However I don't think that Delta would have any in its fleet if they didn't merger with Northwest. If Delta and Northwest didn't merge, NW, US and HA would be the A330 operators in the United States.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will this be the last 767 version ever built?

As a civilian aircraft, yes. I don't think Boeing will ever receive any more order for the 400ER.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
What is the future of the major 767 fleet like AA, DL, UA?

True, they'll be replaced by the 787-8 but you can expect to see the 767-300ERs as passenger haulers for years to come. I recently flew on a Delta 300ER from JFK to BRU and back, it was fitted with 777 Style interiors and winglets, so they'll still be around for a long time.
AA and US still fly aging 762ERs.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10983 times:

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
But with the low orders for the 767-400 will this be the last varrient of the 767?

The 764 was primarily designed a niche aircraft to replace the L-1011 and DC-10 fleets of Delta and Continental, respectively. Boeing couldn't afford to lose two important customers to Airbus, and prior to the introduction of the 764, the A332 was the only direct replacement. Boeing initially offered DL/CO the 772ER to replace the widebody trijets, but both rejected it for that purpose since it was "too much plane" for that mission. Boeing then offered them a possible 777-100ER, but both airlines again rejected due to it not being any more efficient than a 772ER. Then the 764ER was born.

While Boeing probably would have liked to sell the 764ER to more customers, that doesn't overshadow its primary mission of being a widebody trijet replacement for DL and CO, regardless of what Airbus fans want you to believe.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10474 times:
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Quoting American 767 (Reply 3):

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
What is the future of the major 767 fleet like AA, DL, UA?

True, they'll be replaced by the 787-8 but you can expect to see the 767-300ERs as passenger haulers for years to come.

Very true; for example LAN will receive 9 brand new B-767-316ERs this year alone as part of LAN's fleet renewal and expansion plans. LAN will also receive 4 new B-767-316ERs during 2013. It's interesting to note that LAN will incorporate brand new B-767-316ERs and B-787-8s into the fleet simultaneously!


User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8546 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10446 times:
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Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
will we see other airlines, like AA, US, DL, maybe UA (fingers crossed) ordering A330 to phase out there aging 767 fleet?

- Not a chance.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- What is the future of the major 767 fleet like AA, DL, UA?

- Replaced by 787's.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see a MAX version of the 767 or will Boeing go back to the drawing board and redo the 767?

- Nope.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently onlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9773 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
While Boeing probably would have liked to sell the 764ER to more customers, that doesn't overshadow its primary mission of being a widebody trijet replacement for DL and CO, regardless of what Airbus fans want you to believe.

The 764 sold a grand total of 37 units. That's a failure, no matter how you want to spin, and it didn't begin to cover the development costs. It's particularly a failure when compared to the A332 (572 orders up to now). I remember very well the heated discussions in the aviation forums of the late 90s about which airplane would prevail...



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineHAL9k From Norway, joined Feb 2011, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9729 times:

Here comes my thoughts:

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Has the A330 peaked at its highest glory?

- Probably yes. The delays with the 787-8 were the fortune of the A330-200.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- How much longer will the A330 be in production?

- First of all I would say that the 767 and the A330 are two quite different aircraft as they come out at a decade from each other, so while the 767 is almost at the end, the A330 can still sell the actual models to existing customers and charter airlines. The cargo version still has to break into the market. I suppose that a passenger-to-freighter conversion is more likely than production of brand new 332F.

Quoting SWALUV (Thread starter):
- Will we see a NEO version of the A330?

- Airbus initially declined this idea of... Air AsiaX (??)... but later come up on it again. The reasons that makes sense in souch a project is that the A330-200 is a smaller machine and cheaper than the A350-800, that on the other side is becoming less and less interesting to many airlines. Many arilines (as european charter ailines) that dont'e use aircraft bigger than the A330/767 would probably prefere the A332 to the A358. the A358 could be interesting to airlines who needs also the larger models (-900 and -1000) to maintain commonality.
While the A350 will use much of the avionic deveoped for the A380, the A330neo could maintain the acual layout still in use for the A320neo.
For the A330-300 the "neo future" is more difficult to see, but it still have a good market as regional aircraft in the east- asia...


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1577 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9641 times:

Quoting UALWN (Reply 7):
The 764 sold a grand total of 37 units. That's a failure, no matter how you want to spin, and it didn't begin to cover the development costs. It's particularly a failure when compared to the A332 (572 orders up to now). I remember very well the heated discussions in the aviation forums of the late 90s about which airplane would prevail...

True, but one also has to remember that it was a relatively low cost affair. While it was certainly a commercial failure from a sales front, I think that when we take into account the development costs (low, and both benefitted from and perhaps even contributed to other Boeing R&D efforts) in addition to the potential of losing one or both very loyal Boeing customers, it has worked for Boeing.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3797 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9641 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting UALWN (Reply 7):
The 764 sold a grand total of 37 units. That's a failure, no matter how you want to spin, and it didn't begin to cover the development costs.

I'm sorry but I disagree with you about that one. I don't think it is a failure because the variant was initially to be sold only to Delta and Continental as a replacement for their L-1011 and DC-10 fleets respectively. Boeing announced to Delta the 400ER back in the late 90s because their main concern was loosing them as a customer, Delta choosing the A330 over the 764ER. And if you look at the cost of development, it is only minimal so it wasn't a big loss for Boeing. Sure Boeing would have loved to win more orders from more customers, I believe that Kenya Airways also considered it at one point but chose the 777 instead. The point is selling it to Delta and Continental was exactly what Boeing was expecting.
If I follow your logic, then the 747SP also is a failure.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9292 times:
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Airbus and Boeing both have had a number of "duds" in their narrowbody and widebody product lines. Fortunately, almost all of them being derivatives means that the market failure of specific models is effectively erased by the success of the other models.

The only exception might be the A340-500 and A340-600, but even there, they can piggy-back on the A330s and A340-300s success and they did deliver 129 of them.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1577 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9256 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
The only exception might be the A340-500 and A340-600, but even there, they can piggy-back on the A330s and A340-300s success and they did deliver 129 of them.

Plus didn't a good bit of knowledge gained go back into the upgraded A330 over time as well? I seem to remember hearing that the A330 has benefitted from some of that.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9076 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
I would like to have a reasonable discussion on the future lives of the types.

Then let us drag this thread back on topic.



Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
For example, a wingleted A333, with a few other enhancements, grows to 6000nm range. Those aircraft will have a passenger duty life for 15 to 20 years.

Such frames could be very welcome in developing markets, both with young carriers wishing to grow and new start-ups. They would have been great for China and India, but their respective governments seem to be ready and willing to support their carriers buying new planes so I expect that growth will be handled by 787s and A350s. These used A330-300s will also be very popular with charter operators to replace aging widebodies.



Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
The A332 will have it tougher due to the cost advantages of the 788/789.

I see the earlier frames moving towards converted freighters (they're perfect to replace DC-10Fs), though they will face competition from converted 767s at the lower end.

The later-builds with their higher MTOW could move towards the charter operators to open up non-stop flights to leisure destinations that currently require a stop en-route. Perhaps we can finally have non-stop from Western Europe to Hawaii or from the Western United States to the Canary Islands.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13130 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7587 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
I see the earlier frames moving towards converted freighters

The only 'fault' I see with A330s are there relatively high resale values for P2F conversions. (A classy problem...) I think we'll see quite a few conversions. Hence the investment in a P2F conversion:
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...me-with-st-aerospace-and-eads-efw/

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
The later-builds with their higher MTOW could move towards the charter operators to open up non-stop flights to leisure destinations that currently require a stop en-route

You have a good point there. The more recent A332s could be... reconfigured to 9 across (a la Air Asia-X) for the charter market and would be an excellent fit. I must admit I had overlooked that possibility. But with the high density seating, I could see a market. But it will take the highest MTOW examples for the type.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
they will face competition from converted 767s at the lower end.

Quite true. I see a long life ahead for the 767 in freight. In particular since FedEx recently adopted the type. They have a history of expanding with conversions. At this point, it is a question of economics between new build 767s and BCFs. However, on the low end of the 767 they will then compete with 757s... ad nauseum.  

Either way, I see A330s and 767s finding a home in the freight markets. We just have seen a pause due to elevated resale values due to the 787 delays. It will take another 2 to 3 years of 787 production before there is a major shift, but I see that shift in A330 and 767 resale values as inevitable. It is a question of when, not if; when it happens, we will see more freight conversions.

Including, I believe, a 77E/772 conversion package. But not yet. That will take a few years of A359 production...

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
Perhaps we can finally have non-stop from Western Europe to Hawaii or from the Western United States to the Canary Islands.

Due to the high payloads, I do not see a charter A332 to Hawaii. I think we'll have to wait for HA and their A359s. However, the US to the Canary Islands is overdue, IMHO.

MOL also made noise on buying used 763s for TATL. I think only current resale values stopped him. I see the business case. The question is, will be, will FR join other charter operators with 8-across 767s?
Thomas Cook 767 - 8 Across In Coach?! (by SSTsomeday Sep 17 2008 in Civil Aviation)

Charter=low cost flights that are seasonal. Hence 'high packing densities.' I see a bright future for both the A330 and 767 in those markets. Just as 9 and 8 across Y seating, respectively.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineSeJoWa From United States of America, joined May 2006, 352 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7589 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
Quoting UALWN (Reply 16):You gotta love this site. There is a discussion about the 764, and in about 30 minutes, somebody brings in the 340, for no reason at all, hence turning this into an A vs. B piss contest. Congratulations.
Sad eh?

I would like to have a reasonable discussion on the future lives of the types.

Forsooth, who knows where those corporate groupies' wanderings will lead? =P


User currently offlineStratacruiser From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7502 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
Boeing announced to Delta the 400ER back in the late 90s because their main concern was loosing them as a customer, Delta choosing the A330 over the 764ER.

I seem to recall DL shifted some orders from the 777 to 767-400 because they couldn't reach an agreement with their pilots on a 777 wage scale that the airline thought was necessary to make it's routes profitable.

Dave


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3080 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7502 times:

How many orders does HA have left for the A332? I know US still has several A332 left to be delivered, and I believe deliveries will resume in 2013.


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User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7466 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 3):
However I don't think that Delta would have any in its fleet if they didn't merger with Northwest. If Delta and Northwest didn't merge, NW, US and HA would be the A330 operators in the United States.

Very true. However, I believe DL is very happy with the A330s it acquired via the NW merger. They serve the trans-Atlantic market very well. DL is also updating the interiors to bring them in line with the 764s or 772s, right?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
or example, a wingleted A333, with a few other enhancements, grows to 6000nm range. Those aircraft will have a passenger duty life for 15 to 20 years. The A332 will have it tougher due to the cost advantages of the 788/789. e.g., once KE has 789s, I expect LAS and other distant destinations to go to the 789. Didn't they just launch the longest A332 route to somewhere in Africa from ICN? (I was unable to find the thread.)

The 767 will drift towards shorter routes and freight.

I believe we are past the time for an A330NEO. The reality is, post weight reduction, it wouldn't be competitive with the 789. Hence the A359, -10.

Airbus will decide whether to proceed with enhancements to the A330 during the second half of this year. The idea would be to raise the max take-off weight of the A330-300 by 5t to 240t through the fitting of sharklet wing-tips and other enhancements: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ent-in-second-half-of-2012-367981/

I honestly don't know what to think of this idea. There are many airlines that will probably love it, especially in Asia, but I feel this might cannibalize sales of the A359 to some extent (i.e., when a carrier does need the capacity but does not need the range).

On a related note, I don't know what Airbus will do to compete in the market between the A321 and the A358. The A332 seems destined to disappear once the A358 enters service whether or not a theoretical A333ER is effectively launched. Perhaps I should ask how big the market for two-aisle, twin-engined planes seating more than 200 but less than 280 passengers is. I would think it is quite big, but then again, maybe Airbus is not interested in offering a product in this segment.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7415 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 20):
Very true. However, I believe DL is very happy with the A330s it acquired via the NW merger. They serve the trans-Atlantic market very well. DL is also updating the interiors to bring them in line with the 764s or 772s, right?

The A330s will get B/E Aerospace Pinnacle Y seats with the Panasonic Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors as well as Weber Cirrus flat-bed seats in BusinessElite. Mods will start next year.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7322 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
as well as Weber Cirrus flat-bed seats in BusinessElite. Mods will start next year.

Thank you! Forgive my ignorance. Are these seats the same as those on the 767-400ERs? Will they be arranged similarly to the 764s or will they be installed in a herringbone fashion?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6994 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22):
Thank you! Forgive my ignorance. Are these seats the same as those on the 767-400ERs? Will they be arranged similarly to the 764s or will they be installed in a herringbone fashion?

They are a reverse herringbone layout, where the outer seats face the windows and the inner seats face each other. These seats are also being installed on the 744s.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7228 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6717 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
I do not believe we will see a MAX version of the 767 because the 787 has replaced it in Boeing's model line up.

I still believe that an a/c in the 767 size including a fuse which does not allow an airline to cram more in is desirable, the problem is that both OEM's are on the bigger is better. Every long haul route run by a 767 now must either be upgraded in size or abandoned.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6267 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 20):
On a related note, I don't know what Airbus will do to compete in the market between the A321 and the A358. The A332 seems destined to disappear once the A358 enters service whether or not a theoretical A333ER is effectively launched.

Personally I think the A358 is more likely to disappear. I'm of the opinion that Airbus is trying to cover 2 segments with a single design and this is making A358 and A3510 customers unhappy becuase there's simply too much of a difference between the A358 and the A3510. I think that ultimately they will optimize the A350 for the A359 and A3510 segments and enhance the the A330 to cover the A358 market.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6198 times:
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Quoting par13del (Reply 24):
I still believe that an a/c in the 767 size including a fuse which does not allow an airline to cram more in is desirable, the problem is that both OEM's are on the bigger is better.

And yet it was the airlines that pushed them to do so.



Quoting par13del (Reply 24):
Every long haul route run by a 767 now must either be upgraded in size or abandoned.

Not if the 787-8 has similar (or even lower) trip costs. And considering the fuel savings, long-haul routes will be where the 787-8 can maximize that.


Quoting airbazar (Reply 25):
Personally I think the A358 is more likely to disappear.

It cannot disappear. Airbus needs a next-generation airplane in that market segment. Also, if Airbus' projections are correct, the A350-800 will be over 20% more fuel-efficient per seat than the A330-200 and that should put the A350-800's trip costs at or below those of the A330-200. It is for this reason that Airbus themselves expect the A330-200 to stop selling once the A350-800 enters service.

I expect some of the reason nobody wants one before 2016 is they've taken recent A330-200 deliveries.

[Edited 2012-05-08 13:26:19]

25 EddieDude : I have seen there is a debate along these lines going on here on a.net in connection with the A350's future. A post that I found very interesting in
26 southwest737500 : Us airways is, there ordering the A332 to phase out the 767 200
27 United_fan : I have often wondered if Boeing didn't wait so long to bring out the 764,it would have sold better. But 9-11 put the kabosh on that. IMO,the 764 is a
28 par13del : Yes, no new sales but notice that a number of carriers are still operating the a/c, before the 787 debacle, A330's could have been obtained for a fai
29 BoeEngr : I would expect the A330 to be in production for at least another decade, though likely longer, especially with freighter and A330MRTT production. I do
30 Stitch : The original plan was to optimize both the A350-800 and the A350-1000, but as the A350-900's EIS moved further and further to the right, Airbus ended
31 lightsaber : Undoubtedly. For example, I seriously doubt KE would have 'topped off' their A332 fleet if it were not for 788 delays. If QR had received their 788s
32 EddieDude : Thank you Chris, very enlightening.
33 par13del : True, I guess I question the gap between the current 757 / A321 at the low end and the next step up which is the 787 / A330, when the NEO and Max sho
34 Alias1024 : I would imagine Boeing thought about this when launching the 787. They had the choice of update or clean sheet and chose the latter. The 787-8 is too
35 Stitch : True, but I expect the decision was driven more by how many 767s you had in your fleet already. Airlines like UA, AA, DL, BA, NH, JL, LA and such wit
36 lightsaber : There is another option: reduce frequency or substitute another flight through a hub. One difference today is balancing demand at hubs. While connect
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