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BA Club World - Tired And Dated  
User currently offlineliverpoola380 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 206 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11659 times:

I flew back from JFK with BA in Club World / Business yesterday

It was a comfortable trip but the cabin is a bit tired and dated in comparison to some of the other offerings in the market at the minute. The tv screens were pretty small and the seats looked like they had seen better days.

Are there any plans to upgrade this cabin? I peered into the new F cabin and it looks great and feels fresh and inviting.

I hope there not planning on putting the current CW seats into the 380 or 787, what have they got in the 77W?

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11578 times:

77W has the same cabin, and as its still relatively new I wouldnt expect anything new soon.


We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11562 times:

Quoting liverpoola380 (Thread starter):
I hope there not planning on putting the current CW seats into the 380 or 787

I understand there will be a "refreshed" cabin for the A380 and, I also assume, the 787.


User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11541 times:

They really need to do something, I've decided to avoid BA. The product is seriously dated and it ain't cheap!

User currently offlineliverpoola380 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11524 times:

Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11442 times:

They have introduced a new IFE with the 77W, which addresses part of the OP's concerns...

But the seats will be pretty much the same in the 787 and A380... 2-3-2 in both, so still a more cramped layout compared to pretty much every operator today, unfortunately.

It would be great to see something completely new from BA. I'm hoping for something new in the next 4-5 years, before they get the bulk of their new aircraft. That way, they avoid a big chunk of the potential refit costs... This seems to be the strategy they're employing with the new WT/P product as well, but they were in a more dire need of a makeover sooner, so were developed for the 77W and aircraft that are still using products that are 2 generations old.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11319 times:

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 4):
Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

BA's Club World absolutely hammers EK's old C seat. Not tried their new one but been many times on the old one and CW destroys it in my opinion.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11222 times:

While BA's Club World might looked tired and dated compared to some of its Asian and Middle Eastern competitors, by and large it is still one of the nicer offerings. In my own humble opinion, I think it kicks the butt of most of its TATL competitors (including Europe's other carriers as well).


Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 886 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11120 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):

  

Are we talking about the latest CW cabin or the older version. I flew LON YYC on the 767 and that is the old cabin and it is very tired and dated, but on the same trip flew IAD LHR on a 744 and it was the "new" cabin and absolutely super. Miles ahead of the angled LH or TP offerings IMHO.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineheebeegb From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11030 times:

Of BA's entire CW offering, only the 767s feature to OCW, all the 772, 773 and 744s offer NCW.

All JFK flights (bar one 773) are 744s so the thread starter would have experienced NCW.

The current CW offering isn't very old in terms of years of service. Certainly you can find better business class offerings, you can also, very easily find worse.

I would say the BA CW offering is solid if not spectacular. Fully flat bed, good size, comfortable but of course offerings from middle east carriers on brand new aircraft do beat it.

The OCW, I still personally like it. It is being refereshed on the 767 with new fabrics and padding in the seats and a few other changes but it will still, essentially be OCW but given the time the 763s have left in service combined with the fact the NCW seats don't fit into the 763 cabin BA really had little choice.

Again, a personal opinion but I really like the BA CW layout whereby not all seats face the same direction.


User currently offlineluxair From Netherlands, joined Jan 2001, 853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10884 times:

Well, i'm less concerned with the seat in itself as of the product they offer in general compared by ex. to KL!
My wife and I flew last month for leisure from AMS to LAX and return in C, as we're used to travel with KL and other airlines in C we gave it a try with BA. The seats and the lounges in LHR T5 and LAX rock and a better than by ex. KL but one very important key point we've missed with BA was simply having the feeling to be a premium paying passenger. Don't get me wrong here, i'm not snob or whatever but when going on leisure and paying bucks for a premium ticket, i excpect that my travel starts the moment i enter the airport but with BA there was a huge lack of letting you feel that ur a premium passenger! Infact, we had the feeling that we're travelling economy with exception of sitting in a comfortable seat and making use if the lounges. Maybe compared to KL is not fair in a way, due to the fact that KL has a way less business seats in their aircrafts so the can (still) assure a more personilised service. What do you think?
I think, if they improve the service and paying more attention to each passenger they would be my first choice in the future but for the moment beeing, i prefer for my next flight at the of then year to fly KL.



Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10796 times:

I think it depends what routes you compare BA's CW on. Certainly EK, EY & QR offer a better J product, but BA has many routes that don't compete with gulf carriers. It beats most TATL carriers like AA & UA. And LH & AF still have sloped lie-flat seats in J.

BA certainly has the densest J cabin, hopefully they can make feel it more open on the A380 & 787. But I think the style of the cabin is much more tasteful than the fake wood and gold detail of EK.


User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 839 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10713 times:

Quoting luxair (Reply 10):
i excpect that my travel starts the moment i enter the airport but with BA there was a huge lack of letting you feel that ur a premium passenger!

I guess its hard when you are one of many many thousand premium passengers passing through BA in any day.



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineStarGuy From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10451 times:

Whilst I am not a fan of the layout of Club World, there is nothing wrong with the seat. Very comfortable, although as a bed it could do with a little more padding. The IFE screen is more than sufficient in my opinion. British airways has one of the most consistent hard products of any business class in the world. Apart from the B767 every single worldwide aircraft has exactly the same seat and considering we are talking abut 50+ B747s and 50+ B777 all with the same lie flat seat/bed, that's pretty good going.

User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10385 times:

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 13):
50+ B747s and 50+ B777 all with the same lie flat seat/bed, that's pretty good going.

Technically, the seat is narrower on the 777's compared to the 747... Your point is 100% correct though -- I can't think of any other airline as big as BA which has the such a consistently strong J product on all its long haul aircraft, excluding 'regional' aircraft (ie shorter haul 767's and A330's).

Edit -- Thinking about it, CX is probably another one, though the seats are different across some aircraft...

[Edited 2012-05-09 06:29:08]

User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10357 times:

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 4):

Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

Whilst I can appreciate that in terms of overall service they may be behind some of their competitors, in terms of seat I think they still have one of the best. EK don't even have true lie flat seats on most of their fleet - if that is important to you then it rules out flying EK in business.

Quoting heebeegb (Reply 9):
Again, a personal opinion but I really like the BA CW layout whereby not all seats face the same direction.

Me too. I find that the layout also ensures greater privacy over UA's new business class, South African's and Korean's.

I especially like the Upper deck window seats as you are high up facing the engines.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 11):
BA certainly has the densest J cabin, hopefully they can make feel it more open on the A380 & 787. But I think the style of the cabin is much more tasteful than the fake wood and gold detail of EK.

The cabin does feel dense - especially on the 77W where Club World is one big cabin - for some reason it doesn't feel so dense on the 744 but perhaps that it because it is made of 2-3 smaller cabins depending on the configuration so it feels more cosy that dense.

Having said that, Etihad have a 2-4-2 staggered layout on their 330s and 340s which due to the cabin width makes it feel extremely cramped and the seats feel noticeably narrower than those of BA. The newer, brighter cabins and absence of the middle luggage racks as well as excellent service do make Etihad's an attractive product though.

Quoting liverpoola380 (Thread starter):
The tv screens were pretty small and the seats looked like they had seen better days.

The 77Ws have the new entertainment system which have slightly bigger screens, better picture quality and more choices.

Whilst the old PTVs are slightly dated, what they have on the 77W is excellent. Other airlines may have bigger screens but then they are normally further away from your face so the increase in size is cancelled out.


User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10112 times:

I am unsure as to whether the current NCW is outdated, I think it still has a good couple of years in it yet. The problem is the catering. While wines have seen an uplift, the standard and quality of the food has (though never great), drastically worsened. The 'fruit in a plastic pot with a luke warm bacon roll' breakfast is simply not premium in any way. I understand the OP's views that their experience didn't feel premium for this reason alone. Many airlines plate their J food; while I realise the density of the CW seating may prevent this from being efficiently delivered, I do think the current hot mains are sub-par.

Overall I really enjoy the CW experience; the seat is great, I like the layout, but the food needs addressing.



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineStarGuy From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9988 times:

Quoting A340600 (Reply 16):

I agree with your comments regarding the catering 100%. Just to shine a little light on the breakfast issue, having worked for airlines for the last 7 years, Business Class breakfast service creates an enormous amount of waste. Flights of mine would regularly land with 4,5,6 ovens full of breakfast items completely untouched with regularly as little as 5-10 customers actually wanting to be woken to have something. Croissants, muffins, toast, fruits and yoghurt, cooked breakfasts, bacon rolls, cereal, whole trays, whole ovens full to the brim and all left untouched. I can understand the need for BA to streamline the offerring to the most highly requested items to ensure that it actually gets used and reduce losses, especially on the short night flights from USA east coast for example on the High J B747 where they have as many as 70 CW seats.


User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9921 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 14):
Technically, the seat is narrower on the 777's compared to the 747..

Nopes.....they are the same width.....its the aisles and gaps between the seat and windows that are narrower!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1635 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9894 times:

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 4):
Their quite lacking when you look at the likes of Emirates and Singapore for the same clas

I wouldn't agree with EK but possibly SQ when you factor in their soft product. SQ's new generation seat itself has its own issues - while it is ridiculously wide, it is quite close to the seat in front of you, and while it is completely flat, you do need to sleep at an angle to fit your feet into the "cubby hole" under the seat in front of you. Also, you cannot turn the seat into the bed without getting up and flipping the back over.

Quoting PVG (Reply 3):
They really need to do something, I've decided to avoid BA. The product is seriously dated and it ain't cheap!

I agree it ain't cheap but I don't think its "seriously dated" at all. While it might not be the uber luxurious layout of the likes of Oman Air et al., it is the most consistently solid product amongst the bigger long haul carriers. The thing about carriers like EK and SQ is that they have a billion different layouts, and can get an older seat on a 7 hour flight, something that wouldn't happen with BA. I don't think we can underestimate the value of this to the frequent, high yielding or business traveler.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):

BA's Club World absolutely hammers EK's old C seat. Not tried their new one but been many times on the old one and CW destroys it in my opinion.

I agree - the only seat we have that is comparable to BA's is the one on the A380, and even that has its limitations. What offsets this is the stand up bar at the rear of the massive J cabin. But the lie flats on most of the 777 fleet and the ridiculous recliners on the A330/A340 (and recliners in disguise on the A345) do not compare to BA's Club World. You can get on a 10 hour flight on a 2-3-2 recliner configured bird on EK. Again, this wouldn't happen on BA.

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 7):
While BA's Club World might looked tired and dated compared to some of its Asian and Middle Eastern competitors, by and large it is still one of the nicer offerings. In my own humble opinion, I think it kicks the butt of most of its TATL competitors (including Europe's other carriers as well).

I think BA in premium cabins is the best trans-Atlantic product from the US to Europe.

Quoting luxair (Reply 10):
Don't get me wrong here, i'm not snob or whatever but when going on leisure and paying bucks for a premium ticket, i excpect that my travel starts the moment i enter the airport but with BA there was a huge lack of letting you feel that ur a premium passenger! Infact, we had the feeling that we're travelling economy with exception of sitting in a comfortable seat and making use if the lounges. Maybe compared to KL is not fair in a way, due to the fact that KL has a way less business seats in their aircrafts so the can (still) assure a more personilised service. What do you think?

I don't think you're being a snob at all, its a totally reasonable expectation, especially when you fork out such chunks of money to fly on a premium product. Unfortunately the nature of BA's market, being based in London, necessitates quite high density J and F cabins. Its really astounding to me that the newest addition to BA's long haul fleet, the 77W, has a mere 186 seats in Y, with a combination of 114 premium seats (including WT+). That's quite the ratio. For comparison's sake, where SQ puts 8 F seats in their premium long haul 77W, BA puts in 14, and fills them too.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 14):
Edit -- Thinking about it, CX is probably another one, though the seats are different across some aircraft...

Yeah CX had a little bit of a debacle with their herringbone layout but they have fixed this with their latest J offering - one of the best in the skies I think. Their soft product (especially catering) could use an upgrade however, and pales in comparison to SQ's longhaul J catering. Again though, CX does have some regional J class seats floating around that are horrible as well, though unlike SQ I think these are now mostly limited to intra-Asia hops (whereas before they were making it as far as the Middle East).



Keep Discovering
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8391 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9839 times:
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Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 19):
where SQ puts 8 F seats in their premium long haul 77W, BA puts in 14, and fills them too.

BA is the only airline flying around with more then 8 First Class seats on most of its planes, even the Lufthansa 748 and A380 have just 8 F seats. BA's NEW F has 14 seats in a 744, way too many. Cathay only has 9 in the nose of its 744's against BA's 14.


User currently offlineluxair From Netherlands, joined Jan 2001, 853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9255 times:

To resume, BA isn't tired and outdated, to the contrary, it is in general a good product with what others mentionned, all their planes have the same type of seats, at least when buying a ticket you know exactly what you get, with EK its a kind of luck as they have no streamline in their product, you see when boarding what type of seat you get!
However, there is room for improvement at BA when it comes to their premium products. The food is a good point mentionned above, they could improve their quality of food (not only the breakfast) a hint for the BA folks, book a flight on Swiss and have a look there, simply copy & paste and your fine hehehe
Another important point is, for god sake pls put less premium seats in your aircrafts to guarantee quality and exclusivity of flying premium.



Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8527 times:

I still have the opinion that BA has one of the best business class products in Europe. British Airways and Swiss seem to be at the top for cabin comfort. The seat is of comparable quality to that of UA, DL, and VS who all compete with full flat seats on the busy Transatlantic market with BA.

There will always be a select few airlines offering better products. I don't think BA is going to be leading the pack in opulence, but they certainly have a good product (except catering which I agree is abysmal and just about the worst of any international airline that I have flown).

Sometimes 4 out of 5 stars is more profitable than 5 stars.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinemutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8169 times:

I will spring to BAs defence here:

Dont forget the seat you refer to is their SECOND fully flat bed seat in J - and dont forget they are a 100+ frames longhaul carrier not a small niche player.

There are still some major players who cannot guarantee you a proper bed seat - let alone an evolved version

And because they were first, they are understandably "older"

I am sure we can expect a third generation seat but I wouldexpect them to sort out the "big" long haul replacement fleet rder first before looking at the on board product


User currently offlineGRUIAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7791 times:

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 7):
While BA's Club World might looked tired and dated compared to some of its Asian and Middle Eastern competitors, by and large it is still one of the nicer offerings. In my own humble opinion, I think it kicks the butt of most of its TATL competitors (including Europe's other carriers as well).



Agreed! I actually like the CW product and hope they don't change it too much. I like the fact that the seats are not angled into the aisle or windowbank and I like the real sense of privacy you get in the product, especially in the window seats. What other business product gives you 3-4 windows per seat. Absolutely incredible. Hope they don't change it out with a product that faces the interior of the plane. That would be a true waste.


25 Post contains images readytotaxi : I flew BA Club Sunday from LGW-MCO B777 G-VIIO. The Gatwick fleet are high utilised but I found the cabin seats walls and carpet quiet fresh and not t
26 wahdadli : This is so true. I actually like the layout of the 777s and 747s. The seats are fine for me, but the service is robotic, impersonal and more like "i
27 fco110 : We flew four legs on different planes from ORD to Africa last year and each club world cabin was slightly different - one of the larger differences b
28 Viscount724 : But not many flat-bed J class products on other major carriers have just one less seat abreast than Y class (J on BA 8-abreast and Y 9-abreast). BA's
29 Roseflyer : I agree the LX and DL thompson seats are very good, however the LX seat is effectively a 7 abreast layout which is one less than economy just like BA
30 jetblast : I'd like an explanation as to why you have deemed this too many seats, when they in fact go full on several markets.
31 Post contains images fbgdavidson : The current Club World has been with us since December '06, and the previous iteration debuted around 6yrs previous so a new seat should be in the wor
32 Viscount724 : I don't quite understand how 1-2-1 and 2-2-1 in alternate rows could be considered as effectively 7-abreast. It's either 4 or 5-abreast and always lo
33 Post contains images luxair : As I do get your point here, in my opinion, regardless of high demand, BA should try hard and best to honour every paying passenger not only the big
34 laca773 : I appreciate what you're saying StarGuy, but when you're traveling from the US westcoast, two full meals need to be offered in all classes, not just
35 PVG : True, it is consistent, but it is still dated in my opinion. The seats are too low to the ground. The bed is hard. The IFE is not close. The people a
36 qf002 : I probably wouldn't go that far... It's a big improvement, but It absolutely pales in comparison to the equivalent Panasonic systems that are coming
37 vhtje : Not my experience at all. Quite the opposite, in fact - BA have always been very free flowing with the booze. In my last flight from DXB I couldn't s
38 Kaiarahi : Why is it too many if they're filling them?
39 APYu : I dont think Krug has been available in First for a number of years IIRC
40 fbgdavidson : They still don't have the most important thing though (well second most after a flat bed) a proper ground experience. AFAIK BA is the only airline fr
41 anstar : Virgin Atlantic also offer this service from their new Clubhouse at JFK.
42 Roseflyer : When in the actual seat sleeping, the size of the seat is about the same. It is wider at the shoulders and narrower at the feet on both seats. BA doe
43 sq_ek_freak : You made very valid points in your post, but I really have to disagree with you on this one in particular. I've flown every airline that operates NYC
44 LAX888 : I am also someone who is defending the BA NCW product as I feel it is one of the better ones out there and probably in the top three in Europe. Of cou
45 tonystan : Please define "robotic"? I must admit, I find on a whole BA employ the most random and individual personalities going. Something you just dont get at
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