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Superjet Disappears Off Radar In Indonesia Part 1  
User currently offlineSasha From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 127307 times:

A Superjet SSJ-100 aircraft has been lost from radar screens during a demo flight, a russian blogger reports. https://twitter.com/#!/dolyasergey

A Russian news site http://lenta.ru/news/2012/05/09/jet/ also quoting him states that the plane was on a tour of Asian countries. The plane was supposed return after 30 mins. It has now been 3 hours and should have run out of fuel by now.

The source notes that an emergency beacon has not been set off, so there was still slight hope it might not have been crashed. However, a hijack scenario is being considered.


An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
226 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 127290 times:

That is definitely not good news, lets hope they surface up... anything but a normal return (however unlikley at this point) would be very very unfortunate.

Hope it all finishes well...



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1612 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 127249 times:

Some more info;

http://avherald.com/h?article=44f464f7&opt=0

Damn, hopefully they turn up alive and well..



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offline777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 127268 times:

BBC News reporting the news... I'm very sad, what a terrible news!

Quote:
Russian passenger jet reported missing in Indonesia

A Russian Sukhoi Superjet 100 passenger plane with at least 44 people aboard has gone missing on a demonstration flight in Indonesia, reports say.

The plane disappeared from radar screens during a flight meant to last 30 minutes, a blogger with the Sukhoi delegation said.

Helicopters were dispatched to look for the jet, thought to have been flying near a mountain, Sergey Dolya said.

Emergency services confirmed a Sukhoi plane was missing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18004097


User currently offlineRubberJungle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 127066 times:

Flightglobal says prototype 95005 was due to demo in Jakarta today.

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 127134 times:

Very distressing news, I'm hoping there is still a good resolution   


...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2405 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 126867 times:

Very bad for Sukhoi.

I hope all the best for the occupants.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinePezySPU From Croatia, joined Dec 2011, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 126817 times:

Terrible news if it crashed, especially for a new program hoping to receive orders.

But hey, A320 also had an interesting start...


User currently offlineLH648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 126738 times:

Sergey Dolya is on tour with Superjet, so you can check his blog, there some reports from previous days of his trip.

http://sergeydolya.livejournal.com/



I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlineLH648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 126856 times:

Here are the pilots and Sky's stewardesses shortly before boarding the flight...



[Edited 2012-05-09 04:05:57]


I hate Lufthansa
User currently onlineafterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 126457 times:

There is a thread in an Indonesian aviation enthusiast site www.indoflyer.net discussing about this aircraft (link). There are pictures of it there. In the beginning it discussed about the aircraft. Then a member posted a news saying it had just crashed.

[Edited 2012-05-09 04:09:05]

[Edited 2012-05-09 04:17:25]

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 125948 times:

I hope they will be at least able to locate/recover the aircraft.

 

ria novosti

There are 44 people on board, including eight Russians and 36 foreign nationals.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120509/173333864.html

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinejamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 544 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 125917 times:

Quoting LH648 (Reply 8):
Sergey Dolya is on tour with Superjet, so you can check his blog, there some reports from previous days of his trip.

Sergey seems to have been very lucky indeed...

Quote:
Я не полетел, а остался снимать его с земли. Фотография сегодняшняя.

Roughly translated "I did not fly today, but chose to stay on the ground to photograph it. Photo is from today."


User currently offlineLH648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 125868 times:

Ooops, sorry, Sky's stewardesses were on board during the first flight, during the second flight, when the plane have disappeared, there where representatives of Batavia, Pelita, Air Aviastar, Sriwijaya Air airlines.


I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlineLH648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 125488 times:

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 12):
Roughly translated "I did not fly today, but chose to stay on the ground to photograph it. Photo is from today."

Allmost correct, he was onboard during the first demo flight.

There was an avia photographer as well, she left on the ground during the second flight, Marina Lystseva, you can check her blog and twitter as well:
http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/
http://twitter.com/#!/lystseva



I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlineLH648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 125224 times:

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6308/414616.d2/0_8d04b_386171e4_XXL
Sergey Dolya and The Captain.



I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlineMbahGondrong From Indonesia, joined Apr 2011, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 125145 times:

Terrible news indeed, hoping the best for the passengers.  

User currently offlineLH648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 124979 times:

Info from Dolya: Rescue Helicopter returned without finding anything. It's dark already in Indonesia, so he will not fly again, they are sending cars to the mountains now.


I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlineColAvionLover From Panama, joined Dec 2008, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 124822 times:
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I'm amazingly shocked about this!
I just woke up, check out Twitter as usually and I face up with this!
This are truly bad news, specially for a recent program.
I like a lot that jet. Not my favorite one, but it looks great!
We just have to wait for more info.
I don't think this will end well.  



JDM's
User currently offlineLH648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 124528 times:

Reg. number 95004, btw.


I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 124541 times:

NO ELT signal.....So it could be a transponder issue.....Hopefully.......presuming they landed someplace.......


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesciurusmdg From Argentina, joined Apr 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 124320 times:

Just heard S&R operation has been suspended due to nightfall.

I know it is speculation, but does it seem like it may of crashed into one of the mountains there. Crew requested and cleared to descend to 6000 feet, in the vicinity of Mount Salak (7354 feet high).


User currently offlinesciurusmdg From Argentina, joined Apr 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 124143 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20):

NO ELT signal.....So it could be a transponder issue

Plane would of run out of fuel by now and hasn't been reported at any airport in the area, sadly.


User currently offlineboacvc10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 123747 times:

I used google translation (use Chrome to visit this URL and then have it auto translate (or, use google to translate ..)

Did the pilots ask for reduction in altitude in an area that was already at high elevation? (10K to 6K) ?

For russian readers, please translate this news item for us: http://www.ria.ru/incidents/20120509/644817138.html

BOACVC10



Up, up and Away!
User currently onlineafterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 123735 times:

Quoting LH648 (Reply 19):
Reg. number 95004, btw.

No. It's 97004.


User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2387 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 125803 times:

This is terrible news!

Im still hoping for the best



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineairtrainer From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 1558 posts, RR: 12
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 125057 times:

Very sad news, let's hope for the best...


Life is short : eat dessert first !
User currently offlineSasha From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 131740 times:

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 23):
For russian readers, please translate this news item for us: http://www.ria.ru/incidents/20120509....html

It doesn't contain any newer info than we have already in this thread, except that the plane requested 6000 feet altitude in the area with a mountain standing 6200 feet high. Shortly afterwards the radio comms were lost.

From the text it sounds like this was a third flight for the day. Previous two demo flights were with Sky Aviation FAs on board and Batavia, Pelita, Air Aviastar, Sriwijaya Air reps.



An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
User currently offlineT8KE0FF From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 418 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 130951 times:

How terrible. I really hope that it's managed to land at some airstrip or something, unlikely I know, but we can hope.


RJ85 E145 E195 A319 A320 A330 A340 A380 B737 B747 B757 B767 B777 B787 DH4
User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1595 posts, RR: 9
Reply 29, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 130120 times:

Quoting Sasha (Reply 27):

It doesn't contain any newer info than we have already in this thread, except that the plane requested 6000 feet altitude in the area with a mountain standing 6200 feet high. Shortly afterwards the radio comms were lost.

This are terrible new!

I hope they haven't crashed directly to a mountain. Shouldn't the GPWS prevent that?
Hope the crew and passangers are well.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlinesoftrally From Canada, joined Mar 2012, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 129421 times:

Very sad news indeed. It was one of my favourite planes. I just can't believe that it crashed (probably). I hope the flight crew and passengers are alive  
Quoting LH648 (Reply 9):

Here are the pilots and Sky's stewardesses shortly before boarding the flight...

This photo gives me goosebumps...



Flown on: 738, 744, 762/763, 772, 77W, 788, A306, A318/319/320/321, A332/333, E145, E190, CRJ700
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 128541 times:

No no no no no nooooo....what a way to start the day here....prayers and hope for the best is the only thing I can think now.
Until the S&R don't find a wreckage there is still some hope ( I know is fading every minute, but still... ), a hijacking, even a crash landing with survivors is a good scenario in this circumstances...

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 128415 times:

Too early to speculate of course, but I think it's remarkable that most Russian planes suffer an accident or two in the early years, either in the test phase (Il-62, An-70, Tu-134), demonstrating (Tu-144 in Paris, An-148 to the Myanmese, now the SSJ probably) or in early service (An-140, Yak-42). Maybe Russian pilots are more tempted to try and fly their aircraft outside its specifications.
Disclaimer; I love Soviet/Russian types and flew and fly on a lot of these without hesitation, I think once settled in service they are sturdy and safe.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 127100 times:

If they have crashed, I hope they ditched somewhere and they are all alive. A crash is always dreadful, this especially poignant as there are images of the crew and people onboard the plane taken literally hours ago.

Terrible news but really hoping for the best.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 126388 times:

Damn, it just seems like it is going to end up being CFIT ... it's so damn senseless ....

User currently offlineusscvr From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 125686 times:

I pray for all aboard and their familes...

User currently offlinezainmax From Pakistan, joined Jul 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 124845 times:

Very sad to hear that. Sukhoi super jet Registartion 97005 was here at Karachi for demo flight but it was cancelled due to first officer sick. On Sunday another sukhoi airplane arrived here for one night only. I want to know was this the same aircraft? When did it arrive in Indonesia for demo?


ZAINMAX APPRENTICE MECHANIC - PIA
User currently offline757gb From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 125087 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 34):

Agree with you... it sure sounds that way. Here's hoping for survivors, though if what you're thinking is correct the chances are not too great  

[Edited 2012-05-09 05:50:13]


God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlineSasha From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 124125 times:

Quoting zainmax (Reply 36):
When did it arrive in Indonesia for demo?

Arrived on 9 May 2012.

The aircraft in the event was earlier reported to be 97004.

[Edited 2012-05-09 05:55:34]


An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5153 posts, RR: 33
Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 123738 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 33):
If they have crashed, I hope they ditched somewhere and they are all alive.

I'm not sure what the geography is like in the area, but I would have thought at least one of the survivors would have a mobile phone and be able to notify someone.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 34):
Damn, it just seems like it is going to end up being CFIT ... it's so damn senseless ....

I think this is the most likely - it is one of the few causes that can explain why there was no mayday call.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 40, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 123270 times:
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Al Jazeera is reporting that the pilots "radioed a distress message" before the crash. I haven't seen other news outlets reporting this, and the AJE report doesn't exactly cite their source, either. Take it for what it's worth.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-p...fic/2012/05/20125910428596384.html


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 122467 times:

Some media here in Chile reporting on board are members of Indonesia's Ministry of Transport, local airline's executives and members of the Russian Embassy in Jakarta. 38 passengers from Indonesia, 8 Russians ( Embassy personal+crew), 46 total.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineaudidudi From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 122960 times:

Skyliner Aviation are confirming the crash.

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=4


User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 122590 times:

Just appeared via Twitter that the crash site is found by the SAR, no info about survivors. Terrible.

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8017 posts, RR: 5
Reply 44, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 122489 times:

Given the SSJ-100 may have a terrain warning feature (standard on most modern airliners nowadays), it may not be a CFIT, especially if the al-Jazzera report of a distress radio call is correct.

User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 45, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 122148 times:

Quoting audidudi (Reply 42):
Skyliner Aviation are confirming the crash

As much as I respect Skyliner, in this case I am 100% sure they just assume it's crashed killing all on board but they don't have independent sources for this, more then any of us who reload news sites every 10 minutes hoping for some (good) news.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineSasha From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 121982 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 39):
I'm not sure what the geography is like in the area, but I would have thought at least one of the survivors would have a mobile phone and be able to notify someone.

Since it was mentioned earlier that there was a 6200 feet mountain in the area, it is doubtful that cellphone coverage would be adequate, unless cell towers were installed in several spots around the mountain to cover all of its sides.



An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 47, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 121063 times:

Jakarta Post reporting that locals 'saw and heard of a roaring engine like an aircraft' at 3 p.m...

Weather in the area: heavy pouring rain with thick fog.

"The locals saw the plane in the area of Curug Nangka Tamansari. The area location was between 700-800 meters above the sea level."

Based on that, it doesn't look good.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...rtedly-saw-and-heard-aircraft.html

[Edited 2012-05-09 06:21:56]


146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1246 posts, RR: 6
Reply 48, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 120689 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 45):
As much as I respect Skyliner, in this case I am 100% sure they just assume it's crashed killing all on board but they don't have independent sources for this, more then any of us who reload news sites every 10 minutes hoping for some (good) news.

Especially considering they are already reporting 44/44 dead, it seems a bit premature (though likely correct, unfortunately). Too bad.

Best wishes to all involved.



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlinehugoandres1984 From Venezuela, joined Dec 2009, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 118937 times:

wow hope that everybody in that plane be ok

User currently offlineFatmirJusufi From Albania, joined Jan 2009, 2441 posts, RR: 6
Reply 50, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 118669 times:

This is terrible news — hoping for some good news.


DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 51, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 118747 times:

Praying for the best, but assuming the worst, what would happen to the entire program? Would customers still have faith in it?

Customers gave Airbus a pass for their 330. Would they give Sukhoi a similar pass given that they have near zero track record with commerical liners ?


User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2387 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 117593 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 51):
what would happen to the entire program? Would customers still have faith in it?

It would depend on what caused the crash, the aircraft is already certified as far as I know



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 53, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 117695 times:

If it turns out to be CFIT during bad weather in an unfamiliar area, how can the aircraft be to blame ....

User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 115562 times:
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Crash site supposedly found according to this twitter feed: https://twitter.com/#!/GerryS

"SSJ100 crash site reported found by SAR heli just prior to aborting due to bad weather. No info on survivors. Awaiting official word." ... "If SSJ crash site is as predicted, it lies JUST outside the MSA 6900 (HLP) or 6000 (AL). 7900ft peak just outside the MSA circle. MORA 11900"


User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 55, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 115452 times:
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This is the flight path that search and rescue crews have been basing their work off of. The arrows indicate where the plane started a steep descent for some reason.



User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 56, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 114577 times:

This is terrible and very sad, and the photos of the crew turn my stomach - to me at least, it would have been more proper to wait until everyone's relatives and loved ones were contacted before publishing last minute photos of the crew.

Perhaps that's just me.

asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 57, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 114192 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 53):
If it turns out to be CFIT during bad weather in an unfamiliar area, how can the aircraft be to blame ....

The only way you could blame the aircraft would be instrument failure, engine failure or some other structural failure resulting in control issues.

Saying that, I agree with you. And with the lack of radio communication prior to the aircraft disappearing from radar would indicate a quick and sudden break up... with current evidence, weather conditions, region (mountains) and possibly pilot disorientation (unfamiliar region) one could conclude CFIT.

Of course, we shall indeed know in due course.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1291 posts, RR: 8
Reply 58, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 113956 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 57):
The only way you could blame the aircraft would be instrument failure, engine failure or some other structural failure resulting in control issues.

If you have control issues, it's not a CFIT. Think about what the abbreviation stands for; hint, the key is the C!


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 59, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 114126 times:

Three locals 'saw and heard missing aircraft'
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Wed, 05/09/2012 8:16 PM

Local residents living around Mt Salak have reported that they saw the Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft that went missing during a flight demonstration on Wednesday afternoon, leading to suspicions that the ill-fated plane might have crashed in the area.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...rtedly-saw-and-heard-aircraft.html

 


Crew of missing Sukhoi Superjet 100 airliner named
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Wed, 05/09/2012 8:14 PM

The Russian crew members of the missing Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft have been provisionally identified.

In a Twitter message posted by blogger and traveller Sergey Dolya, the ill-fated aircraft was operated by senior pilot Aleksandr Yablontsev and co-pilot Aleksandr Kochetkov.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...-sukhoi-superjet-100-aircraft.html

 

Sukhoi Superjet missing over Mt. Salak
Novan Iman Santosa and Arya Dipa, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta/Bandung | Wed, 05/09/2012 6:57 PM

Indonesian authorities are still working as of Wednesday evening to locate a Russian-made Sukhoi Superjet 100 airliner, which lost contact with Halim Pedanakusumah Airport somewhere above Mt. Salak in Bogor, West Java.

The Indonesian Search and Rescue Agency chief, Vice Marshal Daryatmo told The Jakarta Post that his agency’s two helicopters, an NBO-105 and an NAS-332 Super Puma, had tried to locate the missing aircraft but had to return to Halim due to bad weather.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...uperjet-missing-over-mt-salak.html

 

The bad weather prevents the search and rescue teams to locate the aircraft.

[Edited 2012-05-09 07:05:34]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 60, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 113371 times:

Quoting IADCA (Reply 58):
If you have control issues, it's not a CFIT. Think about what the abbreviation stands for; hint, the key is the C!

I agree, but haven't we seen this over and over .... bad weather, mountainous region ... maybe it was control issues, but i suspect it's the main killer of air passengers still to this day ... CFIT ... but, we will know, and hopefully the industry will learn something valuable again ... Very tragic ..


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8114 posts, RR: 53
Reply 61, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 113431 times:

Latest news says the wreckage has been found. No news of survivors.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 62, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 112671 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 47):
Curug Nangka Tamansari.
Quoting sciurusmdg (Reply 21):
Crew requested and cleared to descend to 6000 feet, in the vicinity of Mount Salak

For folks like me unfamiliar with Indonesia locations and such - the 'crash' site is apparently about 30-35 nm almost due south of the Jakarta airport.

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 23):
Did the pilots ask for reduction in altitude in an area that was already at high elevation?

The plane was 30-35 miles from landing - so descending in that manner would be normal. However if the plane was a few miles south of where the pilots thought the plane was located - it could have descended too quickly.

Someone above mentioned GPWS - those work best when descending toward level terrain. Descending or flying into rising terrain will give a warning on the GPWS, but not always a warning soon enough to be able to avoid CFIT. I would expect a new aircraft like this to have an enhanced system which not only uses radar to check for terrain ahead, but also uses the GPS and terrain maps to predict the elevation of terrain ahead.

One of the things I read is that if the gear are down and the flaps extended, most aircraft EGPWS are less predictive of terrain ahead because they assume the plane is landing, when of course it will come into controlled contact with terrain - i.e. the runway.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4982 posts, RR: 42
Reply 63, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 113194 times:

Quoting LH648 (Reply 9):
Here are the pilots and Sky's stewardesses shortly before boarding the flight...
Quoting softrally (Reply 30):
This photo gives me goosebumps...

There is an old Air Force superstition that one should never have one's picture taken in front of the aircraft on which you are about to depart. The premise is that you wont return.

How very sad for those aboard, and tragic for such a young airplane program.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 64, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 112537 times:

Flightglobal sources say there were officials from at least three Indonesian airlines, and journalists, on board the missing SSJ100
Name lists:
1. Ahmad Fazal (IndoAsia)
2. Insan Kamil (IndoAsia)
3. Edward Edo M (IndoAsia)

 

Nama 36 Penumpang yang Terdaftar di Pesawat Sukhoi Superjet 100

http://news.detik.com/read/2012/05/0...esawat-sukhoi-superjet-100?9911012

    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 111932 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 60):
but i suspect it's the main killer of air passengers still to this day ... CFIT

Actually, since TAWS was introduced, there's only been very few CFIT accidents involving TAWS equipped aircraft, the figure might be 4 or 5, and one more if we include this accident. Loss of control accidents have been a much greater danger over the past 10 years.

Still, my condolences to the friends and family of the passengers and crew. What's awful is that people used the twitter accounts of some of the passengers to post fake messages saying that the SS100 was safe and hadn't crashed.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1291 posts, RR: 8
Reply 66, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 111565 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 60):
I agree, but haven't we seen this over and over .... bad weather, mountainous region ... maybe it was control issues, but i suspect it's the main killer of air passengers still to this day ... CFIT ... but, we will know, and hopefully the industry will learn something valuable again ... Very tragic ..

Well, the circumstances certainly suggest it. We'll probably know more shortly. Really, I was just being a bit snarky there, though, in pointing out that a loss of control means it's not a controlled flight into terrain.

Crashes often have multiple causal factors. One possible issue that jumps out at me here - and no idea whether this was actually a contributing factor - is the fact that it was a demo flight. If you look at the path in reply 55, you can see it appears they were showing off a bit, circling that one peak pretty tightly at unknown altitude. (This seems a bit odd if the weather was as bad as some suggest; you wouldn't see much, but I digress.)

[Edited 2012-05-09 07:22:05]

User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 111088 times:

Quoting LH648 (Reply 19):
Reg. number 95004, btw.

95004 visited Interjet's headquarters at TLC last september:

Sukhoi SSJ100 @ TLC


Our prays to all...


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 68, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 111535 times:

RT ‏ @RT_com
Mobile phones of 2 Indonesian journos from disappeared SuperJet-100 work, but no one answering - local media

 

RT ‏ @RT_com
Update: 50 people onboard SuperJet-100 - 8 Russians, 2 Italians, a French, an American, the rest Indonesians - report

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 69, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 109822 times:

I had a forum bug with my last post and missed out posting the link.

Russia’s Sukhoi SuperJet-100 goes off radars in Jakarta, hijacking not ruled out

Russia’s latest civil airliner carrying 50 passengers has disappeared from the radars during a demonstrative flight in the Indonesian capital. Hijacking and a high-altitude crash into a mountain have not been ruled out.

­The aircraft did not return to the airport at the scheduled time following takeoff. By that time, the fuel should have been totally spent.

read more
http://rt.com/news/sukhoi-superjet-disappears-radar-838/

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 70, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 109695 times:

Photo gallery of demo flight of the Sukhoi Superjet in Jakarta. Via @dolyasergey

SSJ100 Roadshow
http://gallery.mac.com/sdolya#102194

these pictures make me cry...

     

[Edited 2012-05-09 07:35:58]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2710 posts, RR: 25
Reply 71, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 109669 times:

I just read what CNN reports about this crash. The comments below the article are extremely annoying. I am very confused that CNN is accepting something like this.

Let's hope there are survivors.


User currently offlineDrmlnr1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 109031 times:

Hope the aircraft and passengers are safe. Prayers are going their way. One superstition I have before I fly commercially is I always touch the top of the boarding door for good luck.


Flying is relaxing!
User currently offlineSasha From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 107306 times:

Quoting Drmlnr1 (Reply 72):
One superstition I have before I fly commercially is I always touch the top of the boarding door for good luck.

I tend to do similar!

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 68):
Mobile phones of 2 Indonesian journos from disappeared SuperJet-100 work, but no one answering - local media

Wouldn't this enable to narrow the search area? If they can triangulate the signal of their cell phones?

Sergey Dolya tweeted that locals are calling it a day, while they (i assume the international journalists team) are all staying at the emergency centre. The ground search ops will continue throughout the night and 5 helis are to commence the search in the morning.



An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 106729 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 70):

these pictures make me cry...

Totally with you on that. To hear about a crash, and be separated from it in the sense it is a report with pictures of an aircraft is one thing. To see pictures of those poor souls on board minutes/hours before the incident is another.

Certainly brings it just that bit closer, I feel most uncomfortable looking at the pictures. Absolutely dreadful situation.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlinepilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 75, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 106251 times:

It's deeply saddening as a pilot to read such news...I just did my yearly line check to dubai and back from IST and was very excited to have an afternoon and evening off to myself, however after reading some of the comments on websites and even reading a potential hijack paranoia post...I am but happy about all this....

It is quite upsetting that an aircraft goes down in the end, but the type of flight, the prosper of S-jet etc is something that makes it more tragic. As an accident and incident investigator I can say this:

1. Making assumptions is very dangerous, YET it is how we formulate a thesis or hypothesis to determine the angle at which to examine an incident or accident, so to all those posters who keep saying wait and see...yes let's wait and see but that shouldn't stop people from coming up with ideas about how it happened. After all, A.net is a place to share and no one here uses this site to make an official announcement anyways...I would only say wait and see to a government officially who prematurely struts a press conference.

2. CFIT/EGPWS and ELT

I am not sure of the legal requirements for demo flights, since this is not scheduled passenger service, the degrees of freedom of a demo flight may be relaxed and certain systems may even be turned off to fly the aircraft at demo extremes....not saying this was the case, but this is something I would factor and look for when analyzing such a crash...


more to come must run an errand...



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 76, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 106363 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 74):
Certainly brings it just that bit closer, I feel most uncomfortable looking at the pictures. Absolutely dreadful situation.

Cruel fate.

        



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineaviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1486 posts, RR: 14
Reply 77, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 105597 times:

Sad news, especially when indications are that the aircraft has actually crashed and it is likely there are no survivors. I was surprised that the names of those onboard have been released this early without their fate being confirmed.

This aircraft has been reported to have visited several countries before coming to Indonesia. Does anyone have its itinerary and dates prior to the crash ... and which airlines were targetted for potential orders?

Wishing for a miracle and perhaps for some survivors.

KC Sim
Singapore


User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1981 posts, RR: 23
Reply 78, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 103848 times:

First off, sad news that I hope has some sort of positive outcome...

Going through the SSJ Road Show photographs, number 110 shows a selection of three cameras that appear to be
mounted in the flight deck as part of a documentary of sorts. Maybe test cameras? Would be interesting to see what comes of these if they were capturing data back to the company or if they were just to document this particular journey during the sales tour.

Intrigued,
JSD



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently onlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4261 posts, RR: 6
Reply 79, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 103856 times:

Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 75):
1. Making assumptions is very dangerous, YET it is how we formulate a thesis or hypothesis to determine the angle at which to examine an incident or accident, so to all those posters who keep saying wait and see...yes let's wait and see but that shouldn't stop people from coming up with ideas about how it happened. After all, A.net is a place to share and no one here uses this site to make an official announcement anyways...I would only say wait and see to a government officially who prematurely struts a press conference.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
Yes, we all make assumptions to some degree and often our assumptions are confirmed. It is how we make sense of a situation that may otherwise be beyond comprehension. With that said, you are correct, to have a person of position or power confuse a hypothesis with fact is another matter entirely. Hopefully that will not be the case in this tragic event.

As much as I would love to believe there will be survivors, it seems very unlikely given the setting and circumstances. RIP.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlinerogercamel From Singapore, joined Feb 2012, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 104303 times:

It's widely reported in Jakarta tonight that the plane has crashed. Very sad news indeed.

Local reports here talk about Bogor (about 10miles from Mount Salak), and 3.30pm local time - I happened to be in Bogor at 3.30 local time. I would be surprised if the weather was very adverse as some above have mentioned - It was warm and dry at the foot of the mountains - and there weren't any reports of heavy rain/thunderstorms today.

 


User currently offlineCassi From Hungary, joined Apr 2010, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 103442 times:

Mount Sarak is 7254 feet high and they were given permission to descend to 6000 feet? Looks like a serious ATC error.

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 82, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 101441 times:

Новостей пока нет. Сидим в штабе. Решили остаться здесь на ночь

News yet. Sit at the headquarters. Decided to stay here for the night (translation microsoft translator)

http://twitpic.com/9j5d3t

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinedraigonair From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 708 posts, RR: 5
Reply 83, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 101208 times:

Quoting Cassi (Reply 81):
Looks like a serious ATC error.

Captain is still the last one responsible for checking the MSA etc. ATC would most likely know that it was a display flight hence they would there for give them that clearance presuming the pilots are aware they are in a mountainous area.



cheers
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 84, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 101055 times:

Стали известны имена россиян, находящихся на пропавшем Superjet-100
Сюжет: Поиски пропавшего с радара самолета Superjet-100

Names of Russians in missing Superjet-100
Plot: the quest for the missing from radar aircraft Superjet-100

Jakarta, 9 may-RIA Novosti, Alexander Kovalev. Names of Russians on board aircraft Superjet-100, disappeared from radar screens during a demonstration flight for representatives of airlines in Indonesia, told RIA Novosti spokesman for the Jakarta airport, from where it departed the aircraft.

The plane piloted by chief pilot Alexander Âbloncev, co-pilot-Alexander Kochetkov, Navigator Oleg Shvetsov. Also on board are flight engineer Alexei Kirkin as well as lead engineer on airworthy Denis Rakhimov.

The demonstration flight went to Deputy Chief of the flight test center of GHS Nikolai Martyshenko, Director of sales and Manager of GHS Eugene Grebenshikov contracted Christine Kuržukova.

Superjet-100 is the first in its history demonstration tour in six Asian countries. On Wednesday, carried out demonstration flights in Indonesia, the plane disappeared from radar screens 40 nautical miles from the airport, Jakarta. There are 44 people on board, including crew: eight Russians and citizens of other countries, 36 for calls on your mobile, no one is responsible.

http://www.ria.ru/incidents/20120509/644839450.html

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 100662 times:

Every minute the hope is fading more and more...  

For us un-familiarized with the SSJ operation and features, does this model have any sort of Envelope Protection like Airbus models ? And if the answer is yes, can that system be inhibited by the crew for a "show off" during a demo flight?

Any insight will be appreciated !!

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 86, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 99863 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 86):
For us un-familiarized with the SSJ operation and features, does this model have any sort of Envelope Protection like Airbus models ?

Not sure if this would make a difference in a CFIT situation. An Airbus is perfectly content flying straight into the side of a mountain, as long as it's not about to stall while doing so.


User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 99600 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 86):
does this model have any sort of Envelope Protection like Airbus models ?

Yes.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 86):
can that system be inhibited by the crew for a "show off" during a demo flight?

Yes, it can be turned off.

That said, I doubt they would have done so, and the envelope protections wouldn't have saved from from a CFIT accident anyway.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 88, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 99276 times:

Quoting Cassi (Reply 81):
Looks like a serious ATC error.

The flight could easily have had a valid VFR clearance to fly close to terrain, even below the summit of nearby mountains, for demonstration purposes. As Pilotaydin notes; this was a demo flight, and likely operating on a very different than a commercial flight. Regardless, it's tragic if indeed the aircraft and lives are lost.


User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 89, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 99870 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I posted this graphic before, but the source disappeared... this is a map of what the rescue personnel based their searches on, with the assumed flight path. The arrows apparently indicate where the descent started.



User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 90, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 99388 times:

Последние несколько часов нет никаких изменений. Сидим в штабе. Ждем. Надеемся.
The last few hours there is no change. Sit at the headquarters. We Are Waiting For. Hope.
http://twitpic.com/9j5ny1



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 98814 times:

This is terrible news  
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 51):
Customers gave Airbus a pass for their 330. Would they give Sukhoi a similar pass given that they have near zero track record with commerical liners ?

I guess it's gonna be an uphill task for Sukhoi, Joe Public (and the media too, I suppose) has a dim view of Russian airliners in general and this incident is definitely not going to help. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of Russian aircraft, but I see Sukhoi having to struggle with this more than, say, Gulfstream after the G650 crash.



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4982 posts, RR: 42
Reply 92, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 98291 times:

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 87):
Not sure if this would make a difference in a CFIT situation. An Airbus is perfectly content flying straight into the side of a mountain, as long as it's not about to stall while doing so.
Quoting bueb0g (Reply 88):
That said, I doubt they would have done so, and the envelope protections wouldn't have saved from from a CFIT accident anyway.

Technically this is entirely correct. If a pilot chose to ignore the EGPWS, then yes, the aircraft will fly into terrain.

However the FBW capability offers the best possible avoidance manoeuvre.

That is, apply TOGA thrust, and pull the stick right back to the stops. I remember on one of my A320 courses, one of the instructors stated that using this manoeuvre on initial EGPWS warning will allow the aircraft to out-climb 99% of the earth's terrain! .... on initial warning! That is why it is SOP at most airlines to apply this manoeuvre on initial warning if immediate confirmation of an error is not possible.

On non-FBW aircraft, you can do the same, you just can't bring it as close to "the edge".



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineDrmlnr1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 98331 times:

NYC aviation is reporting that it crashed and it also gives some very good info
http://www.nycaviation.com/2012/05/s...a-plane-and-46-passengers-missing/



Flying is relaxing!
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 94, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 97766 times:

Quoting afterburner (Reply 24):
Quoting LH648 (Reply 19):
Reg. number 95004, btw.

No. It's 97004.

Registration 97004, Construction number 95004.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ivan Voukadinov - BGspotters




I'm very sad about hearing of the loss of this aircraft, since it is a brand new airliner program which I'm confident can stir up the existing market.
But moreover I'm terribly overwhelmed by the tragidy which the people associated with the flight have encountered. My deepest condolescences go to the friends and families of those aboard. I wish I could say there still is hope, but in SAR-time, it's been ages since the plane has been lost.

  



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 95, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 96540 times:

GS on Twitter
SSJ100: 30 teams totalling 600 people are searching for the crash site tonight. Air search to restart in morning.

    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinepilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 96, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 94830 times:

A lot of the latest accidents I've been researching have come from very simple root causes...I believe that this accident must be investigated with extra detail, because this aircraft is to enter service across the world...I do hope that the Indonesian Government spends all they can on this


The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 97, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 94289 times:

RT Russia Today
Russian Sukhoy SuperJet-100 missing on test flight in Indonesia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JspiKXDyats

Some comments posted with the video are truly appalling.

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 98, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 93635 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 92):
However the FBW capability offers the best possible avoidance manoeuvre.

That's really an envelope protection capability, not a FBW capability.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 92):
On non-FBW aircraft, you can do the same, you just can't bring it as close to "the edge".

You can actually get closer to "the edge" on a non-envelope protected airliner (whether it's FBW or not) but it's harder to do consistently. Hard envelope protection gives up a tiny bit of performance in return for a huge increase in repeatability and ease of execution.

Tom.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2351 posts, RR: 21
Reply 99, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 92467 times:

What a sad day for the aviation community as well as for the Superjet program. Hopefully some survivors will be found.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 70):

Aside from the pilots, was anyone in the pics on the ill-fated flight as well?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 93596 times:

Interesting picture. This is a pic of the overhead panel just before the accident flight:

http://gallery.me.com/sdolya#102194/...0509_ssjroadshow_382&bgcolor=black

Now, I imagine it's probably meant to be like that before startup, but notice on the TAWS panel, near the top left, it shows SYS FAULT and TERR FAULT and OFF - anything out of the ordinary for this phase?



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 101, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 91513 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

--duplicate post removed--

[Edited 2012-05-09 10:28:17]

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 102, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 93279 times:

Looks like they re eagerly waiting for dawn to start back on search and rescue.

Sergey Dolya
У нас уже 0:15. Рассвет в 5:53. Сидим. Ждем
We have 12:15. Dawn in 5:53. Sit. We Are Waiting For

    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 93502 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 71):
The comments below the article are extremely annoying. I am very confused that CNN is accepting something like this.

The people are idiots. They always have some sort of sick "joke" to crack no matter what the ocassion. IMO, they need their own airline.. maybe something like Oceanic Air or Glatterflug.

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 100):
Now, I imagine it's probably meant to be like that before startup, but notice on the TAWS panel, near the top left, it shows SYS FAULT and TERR FAULT and OFF - anything out of the ordinary for this phase?

It looks like everything else is showing OFF..



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 104, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 90551 times:

AV Herald said that it hadn't shown up anywhere and most likely crashed somewhere.

if a hi-jacking occurred, there could be a chance it may have flown into the sea.

praying for the best, but expecting the worse  



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineTrijetsonly From Germany, joined Jul 2009, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 90678 times:

From the album which was posted above from the SSJ Asia tour:
http://gallery.me.com/sdolya#102194/...0508_ssjroadshow_348&bgcolor=black

There seems to be a dent in the leading edge of the plane.


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 106, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 90560 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 97):
RT Russia Today
Russian Sukhoy SuperJet-100 missing on test flight in Indonesia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JspiKXDyats

Some comments posted with the video are truly appalling.

Very interesting interview to Mr. David Learmount, from Flightglobal.
He put the money in the fact that, very often, while doing this demo flights ( sales flights as he describes it, not demo for the general public but for potential customers ) the pilots push their planes right to the edge, and that in the past there are many examples of the limits being trespassed with catastrophic consequences.... After hearing his reasoning about the other "options" ( hijacking, etc. ), I tend to fully agree with him.


Quoting ghifty (Reply 103):
The people are idiots. They always have some sort of sick "joke" to crack no matter what the occasion. IMO, they need their own airline.. maybe something like Oceanic Air or Glatterflug.

I humbly recommend to you to see the interview to Mr. Learmount, probably very different to the CNN material.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 107, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 90085 times:

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 100):
anything out of the ordinary for this phase?

Not necessarily. On the ground, it is not unusual for systems to show a fault indication, depending on what the airplane configuration is. For example, many aircraft have a predefined set of circuit breakers which are pulled when an airplane is parked. It is not uncommon for systems to indicate a fault as a result of the missing power. I'm guessing this is a normal indication for the TAWS switches, given the airplane was parked and presumably set up for tours when the photo was taken.


User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 108, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 89272 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 106):
Very interesting interview to Mr. David Learmount, from Flightglobal.
He put the money in the fact that, very often, while doing this demo flights ( sales flights as he describes it, not demo for the general public but for potential customers ) the pilots push their planes right to the edge, and that in the past there are many examples of the limits being trespassed with catastrophic consequences.... After hearing his reasoning about the other "options" ( hijacking, etc. ), I tend to fully agree with him.

Reminds me if the AN 148 crash. A new model which crashed on a test flight with a delegation aboard.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ia-on-test-flight-ministry-353959/



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1646 posts, RR: 1
Reply 109, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 89724 times:

A small statement from the "superjet" website:

http://www.superjetinternational.com/



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlinegolftango From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 86589 times:

Were there cameras like this on that flight???

http://gallery.me.com/sdolya#102194/...0504_ssjroadshow_110&bgcolor=black

[Edited 2012-05-09 11:47:07]

User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 111, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 86778 times:

Quoting rikkus67 (Reply 109):
A small statement from the "superjet" website:

Here is the statement:

http://www.superjetinternational.com/SJI_Home_test.png


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6655 posts, RR: 11
Reply 112, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 82392 times:

Very sad news. Did that aircraft and/or crew come at Le Bourget show 2009 or 2011 ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2659 posts, RR: 4
Reply 113, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 82989 times:

I'm hearing the plane split into at least two sections with bodies strewn.

Oh dear   I fear we will be wishing RIP



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineJMJAirways From Sweden, joined Apr 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 81337 times:

Just a thought,

if some local people say they saw or heard the plane around 3:30 PM. If it did crash into the mountain, would there not be flames or at least smoke, which could have been spotted from the air while it still was daylight. As I understand it is not too far away from the airport 30-40nm... surely there must been other traffic before or after. Just a though



I am willing to pay extra for a A346 flight !
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 115, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 80712 times:

Quoting JMJAirways (Reply 114):
if some local people say they saw or heard the plane around 3:30 PM. If it did crash into the mountain, would there not be flames or at least smoke, which could have been spotted from the air while it still was daylight. As I understand it is not too far away from the airport 30-40nm... surely there must been other traffic before or after. Just a though

Not every plane crash results in a fire, it entirely depends on how the aircraft came down.


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 116, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 81772 times:

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 43):
Just appeared via Twitter that the crash site is found by the SAR, no info about survivors. Terrible.
Quoting flashmeister (Reply 54):
Crash site supposedly found according to this twitter feed: https://twitter.com/#!/GerryS

"SSJ100 crash site reported found by SAR heli just prior to aborting due to bad weather. No info on survivors. Awaiting official word." ... "If SSJ crash site is as predicted, it lies JUST outside the MSA 6900 (HLP) or 6000 (AL). 7900ft peak just outside the MSA circle. MORA 11900"

I made those tweets. I received it from someone at the crisis center at Halim. It has not been confirmed by the official press release. Further investigation into that lead turned up as the SAR heli pilot thought he saw something but cannot investigate closer due to the need to abort due to bad weather. The air search is abandoned for the day/night. Ground search party has been dispatched involving 30 teams of 20 people each. Mt. Salak is very well trekked by rescuers etc. BUT, it is also a tricky place to navigate overland. Even experienced team with GPS get lost during the day. So expect the night ground search to be painstakingly slow despite their best efforts. The last thing we want is "search the rescuers."

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 53):
If it turns out to be CFIT during bad weather in an unfamiliar area, how can the aircraft be to blame ....

The pilots are tests pilots of Sukhoi. This raises a lot of questions already amongst several aviation circles here. See below...

Quoting Cassi (Reply 81):
Mount Sarak is 7254 feet high and they were given permission to descend to 6000 feet? Looks like a serious ATC error.

There are no information that the ATC granted the request. The aircraft would be handled by Jakarta Approach South/East or Jakarta South Sector (if they planned to go south of the mountain range). Given the time of day, I suspect whichever ATC was handling the flight, are swamped with 07L/R departures to south east from CGK or handling sequencing for 25L arrivals, as well as low level traffic inbound to Halim airport. 1 lone flight to the south under radar control, would be the highest priority. Their request, might require several calls. It's possible that the crew took their own action.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 63):
There is an old Air Force superstition that one should never have one's picture taken in front of the aircraft on which you are about to depart. The premise is that you wont return.

I took a photo of myself infront of an aircraft about to take to the skies on a demo flight, from Halim Airport, and I'm still alive.    (Although we prebriefed that we were not going to do the flight south of Jakarta where RA97004 went, but we went west instead, reason: afternoon weather around Mt. Salak and Mt. Pangranggo, can be atrocious!)

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 89):
I posted this graphic before, but the source disappeared... this is a map of what the rescue personnel based their searches on, with the assumed flight path. The arrows apparently indicate where the descent started.

I have problems with the trajectory pictured in the map. I suspect it is one of the SAR flight paths. But who knows.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 62):
For folks like me unfamiliar with Indonesia locations and such - the 'crash' site is apparently about 30-35 nm almost due south of the Jakarta airport.
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 62):
The plane was 30-35 miles from landing - so descending in that manner would be normal. However if the plane was a few miles south of where the pilots thought the plane was located - it could have descended too quickly.

I've flown around that area a lot in the past. It's nice and scenic in VMC. But between Mt. Salak and Mt. Pangranggo, one has to have their wits around and not have a lapse of situational awareness. Some very strange winds are up there, and conditions are unpredictable even in VMC, and in IMC, it's damn awful. I must thank my fortunes to not have to go through the pass between those two mountains anymore these days!

Taken from 9 yrs ago:

This is Mt. Pangrango, a higher (almost 9900ft peak) but not as steep as Mt. Salak (7200ft peak). Lots of little valleys to search through. U'd be hard pressed to try and force land a jet and end up in 1 piece there.

Flying to the south of Jakarta, is dangerous if only armed with a Jepessen Map. No terrain depiction, only the MSA is there. I picked this from a Lido chart:

Mt. Salak and Pangrango are just outside the MSA limit. Note MORA is 11900 and 10300. On the Jepessen, this is not depicted on Halim Airport approach charts, nor on the STAR charts for HLP or CGK.

A witness onboard an earlier flight told me that the previous flight was departing and arriving Halim 24. The pilots only had the approach and airport ground charts. Seeing the Nav Displays on the previous flight, it looks like they simply planned to depart, go along R206 airway (R-195 HLM) until about 30NM and turn back.


If they had reached FL150 as reported, they would have had to descend prior to reaching the 30NM mark. Sounds easy enough. BUT, late afternoon in that area is normally not good for flying. I've seen clouds "collapsing down the side of Mt. Salak and spread across and cover the whole pass towards Pangrango before (I turned back... being in an unpressurized prop twin w/ no WXR). Quite often in the mid afternoon, clouds would cover both mountains, and only reveal Pangrango, and Salak is totally covered... looking like a big cumulus over small area undercast... (I used the term, "Cumulus Granitus" a lot after seeing that).

If these guys were only armed with Jepp approach, STAR, and enroute charts, a simple "fly out along R206 to 30NM and turn back", would be fine in VMC, but deadly in IMC and bad localized weather. A simple urge to duck under over there is hard to overcome unless you know the terrain there. The crew was unfamiliar with the area. Last time someone crashed into Mt. Salak, it was an air force C-212 on the way back to Halim from the south coast after some remote sensing equipment testing. Been there, also did the same, test remote sensing equipment down the south coast, heading back, huge temptation to simply press, "Direct to" Halim airport on GPS or FMC.

My crew used to hate me for forcing them to plot a course through the pass on the GPS and Mission console display, added with the instructions "In IMC Do not proceed direct HLM unless west of R-200 HLM and within 20DME HLM. Strict adherence to planned course through the pass in IMC, maintain 6000 above until 20DME. If GPS u/s or unable to maintain 6000, revert to alternative IMC return plan" (which involved a long detour west to avoid terrain over 1hr30 extra on that prop). It wasn't until they went through the pass in IMC did they appreciate the instructions. On a bad day, the pass collects northerly winds like a compressor on the north side, then spews it up the middle and down the sides in an erratic manner. I went through it in IMC once on one of those bad days, I'd rather not go through that again ever. Looking back at it now, even 6000 was probably too low.

Quoting garpd (Reply 113):
I'm hearing the plane split into at least two sections with bodies strewn.

I've seen that "broadcast". No, they haven't found the plane yet as I write this.

Quoting JMJAirways (Reply 114):
if some local people say they saw or heard the plane around 3:30 PM. If it did crash into the mountain, would there not be flames or at least smoke, which could have been spotted from the air while it still was daylight. As I understand it is not too far away from the airport 30-40nm... surely there must been other traffic before or after. Just a though

The area is quite remote. The areas above 3000ft are often covered by cloud in afternoon. And very few aircraft traffic go by there on a given month, let alone in a day! The military from nearby Atang Sanjaya Airbase also don't go down that way often either.

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlinelh648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 75986 times:

Sergey Dolya reporting from the crisis centre that the plane is still have not been found.


I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 118, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 76632 times:

Quoting Trijetsonly (Reply 105):

There seems to be a dent in the leading edge of the plane.

Look at the engine pylon, you can clearly see what appeared to be a bird strike! then again, a small dent in the leading edge of the wing is not something overly critical!

Never the less, very sad indeed! hopefully the program can continue!

RIP



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10895 posts, RR: 37
Reply 119, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 76100 times:

Thank you very much Mandala for your invaluable detailed input on this most regrettable accident. You know the area better than anyone and you are a shrewed aviation professional I know I can trust you.

Such sad feelings knowing that many of the happy beautiful faces in the pictures gallery have now left us for another world in this tragic circumstance with the lost SSJ100.

Cruel fate.

I hope with daybreak coming and all the good willed rescue teams at hard work they will locate the aircraft and be able to reach the crash site.

This is all so terribly sad.

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDrmlnr1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 74968 times:

Let's hope all aboard survived. I send my prayers.       .


Flying is relaxing!
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 74993 times:

Quoting CM (Reply 107):
I'm guessing this is a normal indication for the TAWS switches, given the airplane was parked and presumably set up for tours when the photo was taken.

I wasn't referring to the FAULT lights, those are normal, I was more concerned with the OFF light.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Reply 122, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 71751 times:

After reading the post of Mandala499 looks like the area selected to perform this demo flight was the worst possible choice...Someone should advice crews about the tricky conditions in that area before clearing through that area, especially if the flight is expected to keep ( relatively ) low altitudes....

At least the weather forecast for Jakarta is good enough ( not sure if exactly the same in the area under SAR ops ).

04:26 now.... at least a couple of hours before a decent light over that part of the world....Let's hope for the best.

Rgds.

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinefanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1984 posts, RR: 3
Reply 123, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 71201 times:

I add my name to the many people here who have expressed their condolences for the people aboard. The PR people on Flickr are one of my contacts, and I have been following the development of their fine airliner. I hope people and airlines do not panic and shy away from buying this aircraft because of this crash. I wish the company all the best success with their excellent airplane and a deeply saddened for the Russians and Indonesians aboard. My heartfelt thoughts go out for the victims and their families.

There are some very recent pictures of the aircraft in happier times here:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/superjet/

Very sobering.

Flickr photos from Superjet International:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/superjetinternational/



The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
User currently offlineturn720 From United States of America, joined May 2012, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 69588 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This is a sad event indeed. I pray for the families.

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 125, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 67400 times:

Quoting IADCA (Reply 66):
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 122):

After reading the post of Mandala499 looks like the area selected to perform this demo flight was the worst possible choice...Someone should advice crews about the tricky conditions in that area before clearing through that area, especially if the flight is expected to keep ( relatively ) low altitudes....

It has crossed my mind that this 'difficult' area actually influenced the choice. Manufacturers are keen to illustrate capability.


Dan



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19701 posts, RR: 58
Reply 126, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 64830 times:

The sun should be rising there about now. At least, twilight should be starting.

I've been reading this thread with my heart in my throat. I can only hope that they made a "soft crash" in the mountains and are shaken, but alive.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13121 posts, RR: 100
Reply 127, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 65553 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting fanofjets (Reply 123):

I add my name to the many people here who have expressed their condolences for the people aboard.

Let me also add my condolences. This is very sad. My best wishes go out to the families of all aboard.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 116):

Thank you for the information. It adds perspective.

I hope for the best.   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9101 posts, RR: 75
Reply 128, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 65750 times:

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 100):

Now, I imagine it's probably meant to be like that before startup, but notice on the TAWS panel, near the top left, it shows SYS FAULT and TERR FAULT and OFF - anything out of the ordinary for this phase?

Assuming the next picture in the sequence was taken after that photo, the displays are blank. Without the aircraft position being initialised, and the IRS aligned, the EGPWS system would normally show a fault in any aircraft, as it does not have a valid current position, or ADR input.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 116):
Mt. Salak and Pangrango are just outside the MSA limit. Note MORA is 11900 and 10300. On the Jepessen, this is not depicted on Halim Airport approach charts, nor on the STAR charts for HLP or CGK.

The departures SID overview does have the terrain on it, however as you say is does not have the MORA. It will not be on the airport charts, as they are designed for use within 25 nm.

From an ATC point of view, it is well known that the radar heads are not calibrated, whist the Thales radar screens would be capable of detecting descent below radar lower safe, due to the lack of calibration they have multiple alarms going off all the time as the same aircraft is painting on different positions on the same screen.

If this is a CFIT accident, they will not be alone, even the Indonesian military have had aircraft of the years hit the mountainous terrain.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineSasha From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 129, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 62838 times:

Meanwhile, Sergey Dolya, the blogger at the crisis centre, reports he has been admitted to fly in one of the SR helis and they are awaiting clearance for take off right now.

Edit: The weather is bad right now, he says. Take off has been delayed for an hour. Around 450 local forces are conducting ground search at the moment.

[Edited 2012-05-09 16:56:00]


An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
User currently offlinenitepilot79 From Turkey, joined May 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 62505 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 126):

I second that.   



En Buyuk Turkiye, Baska Buyuk Yok!
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 131, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 61847 times:

Quoting Sasha (Reply 129):
Edit: The weather is bad right now, he says. Take off has been delayed for an hour. Around 450 local forces are conducting ground search at the moment.

Correction:
600 on the ground search party.
Advance teams already moved up the mountain last night.
6th Advance Team starting to move now.
Rest of the Search party (the remaining 480) will start to move 0800LT (0100Z).

From Sergey's Twitter, taken earlier this morning:


No heavy cloud at search area from satwx pics, but I see a high overcast. Usually, fog will be thin enough to fly leaving HLP about now... thin enough for VFR in about another hour or less, then localized cumulus will start to form at 9-10am-ish, then build up depends on the situation. Sometimes it can be damn right awful by 11-12 ish, but today, it's predicted to be "OK" until just before mid-afternoon.

Let's hope for the best!



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineboacvc10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 60156 times:

Quoting fanofjets (Reply 123):
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 131):
Correction:
600 on the ground search party.
Advance teams already moved up the mountain last night.
6th Advance Team starting to move now.
Rest of the Search party (the remaining 480) will start to move 0800LT (0100Z).

Was there an ELT onboard this a/c for COSPAS-SARSAT receivers listening to 460 MHz ?



Up, up and Away!
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 133, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 59645 times:

One possible issue is that this Russian flight crew is not experienced to fly in what is a difficult area, as Mandala 499 makes very clear.
Throw in some misunderstanding of terrain, wind conditions, weather, rain, clouds, some flaw in the SSJ design, a mechanical fault or mx problem, ATC communications issues (language), not sure of their real location to their maps, perhaps the pilots playing too close to the edge of safe operations, so as in many crashes, several of these factors could have caused it.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 134, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 59345 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 119):
Thank you very much Mandala for your invaluable detailed input

Let me also add my thanks for a very good update.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 116):
I've seen clouds "collapsing down the side of Mt. Salak and spread across and cover the whole pass towards Pangrango

I'm assuming that results in localized severe downdrafts which would not show up in weather reports.

Quoting JMJAirways (Reply 114):
If it did crash into the mountain, would there not be flames or at least smoke, which could have been spotted from the air while it still was daylight.

See this post

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 116):
The areas above 3000ft are often covered by cloud in afternoon. And very few aircraft traffic go by there on a given month, let alone in a day!

The visibility at ground level may have been close to zero while at 6,000 ft was much better.

As far as fire.

An aircraft completely empty of fuel can start a huge fire in the right conditions - i.e. the Helios crash in Greece.

An aircraft full of fuel can cause almost no fire in the right conditions.

Just a wide guess, but based on the reports of weather in the area and Mandala499's post - I'm assuming that the terrain was wet and the vegetation was green and growing - very unlikely to catch fire.

I have personally seen a half-dozen crash sites with fuel on the ground in puddles several inches deep, with no fire.

High speed, high angle impacts can easily shatter the aircraft sufficiently that the fuel does not ignite.

A lot angle, low speed impact can be fatal to everyone onboard, but not fracture the fuel tanks enough to cause a fire.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6385 posts, RR: 3
Reply 135, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 58463 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 116):
I made those tweets.

Glad you weren't on board the ill-fated flight    I was worried when I saw this thread this morning, and didn't see any posts from the foremost Indonesian a.nutter...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineaviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1486 posts, RR: 14
Reply 136, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 57466 times:

Thanks Gerry for your detailed account of the environment where the Superjet (possibly) went down. It provided us with a better feel for the potential dangers there and with hindsight, some of us possibly wished a person familiar with that environment had been present in the cockpit during that flight.

I look forward to your further update - as you are more likely than anyone else - to provide a comprehensive and accurate report on further developments.

KC Sim
Singapore


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 137, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 57855 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 135):
Glad you weren't on board the ill-fated flight

Glad I wasn't on it. Somehow yesterday, luck was on my side and a LOT of my friends. The ones who flew, flew on the 1st flight. The ones who couldn't get on the 1st flight, either cancelled, or decided not to go up. Otherwise, would have lost a lot of friends yesterday, if not including myself. However, I still got a friend on board, a a few of those onboard are good friends of some good friends. Onboard was also Indonesia's leading aviation photojournalist, DN Yusuf, and his colleague Dody Aviantara, who both work my with late uncle in the same magazine. A leading local aviation commentator also was invited to go onboard but he couldn't make it. He went on TV for an interview and he was clearly shaken as he lost several colleagues on that flight.
When I found out about the accident, it was just after I had a discussion with office colleagues about the SSJ visit.
2 colleagues just came from Halim Airport, and 1 is a close friend of the 2 aviation journalists mentioned, he was on a discussion with the airbase personnel when the military guys got a call and said they had to stop the session because of "something of the utmost importance and urgency"... he only found out after he got back to the office, his face was pale beyond words, and he went back to Halim Airport until late night to get the latest updates.

It was a long day for a lot of people yesterday. I tried to sleep a bit but couldn't catch much. Hence am writing here.

Quoting aviasian (Reply 136):
I look forward to your further update - as you are more likely than anyone else - to provide a comprehensive and accurate report on further developments.

It's going to be a long day today! *sigh*

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 138, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 55908 times:

As mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread... believing media right now simply doesn't make sense, it's all speculation. For the most up-to-date information, follow Sergey Dolya's almost constantly flowing tweets at:

https://twitter.com/#!/dolyasergey

He is in the center of the action and undoubtedly has the most reliable information. As he himself points out, super easy to use Google translate to get the main points.

Latest tweet:

"Уточнили список. На борту было 48 человек. Нашли 2 индонезийцев, которые не были на борту"

Translation: "List confirmed. 48 people were onboard. 2 Indonesians were found, they were NOT onboard"

Edited for translation.

[Edited 2012-05-09 18:57:11]

User currently offlineSasha From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 55809 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 138):
Latest tweet:

"Уточнили список. На борту было 48 человек. Нашли 2 индонезийцев, которые не были на борту"

Translation: "List confirmed. 48 people were onboard. 2 Indonesians were found, they were onboard"

A little correction - they WERE NOT on board.



An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 140, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 55572 times:

Quoting Sasha (Reply 139):
A little correction - they WERE NOT on board.

Yes, just caught my mistake. Thanks, Sasha.

They are now also working with mobile operators to locate coordinates of cell phones.


User currently offlineboacvc10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 55370 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 140):
They are now also working with mobile operators to locate coordinates of cell phones.

This item should and could have been done from the moment the a/c was overdue and a SAR was called.



Up, up and Away!
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 587 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 55358 times:

Edited: Duplicate Post.

[Edited 2012-05-09 19:06:23]


Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 143, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 55272 times:

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 141):
This item should and could have been done from the moment the a/c was overdue and a SAR was called.

From what I read in the reports, the reason it wasn't done was because phones were ringing sometimes and then other times they weren't, it was spotty and hard to locate. Russian mobile operator BeeLine has negotiated with local operators to start pinpointing locations.

[Edited 2012-05-09 19:08:45]

User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 144, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 54742 times:

"Вертолеты нашли самолет. Пытаются определить координаты. Состояние пока не известно"

Translation: "Helicopters have located the aircraft. Trying to locate the coordinates. Condition of the plane is not yet known"


User currently offlineboacvc10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 54829 times:

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 143):
Russian mobile operator BeeLine has negotiated with local operators to start pinpointing locations.

I'm very familiar with cell networks and telecom administrations; the request should have been initiated by local SAR authorities early that evening - and only the switch that processed regional calls would have had to be interrogated. It could have been done in the evening when cell traffic is much less, or by initiating maintenance call from switch room, which gets to a subscribe with higher priority - always. There were Indonesian passengers as well, so russian cell service providers would be redundant at any time. The local switch contains all records of cell phones (GSM, CDMA) registering their presence - even if the subscribers phone was not being used, but the radio was kept on.



Up, up and Away!
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 146, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 54246 times:

Sergey's Tweets:

"Есть Координаты самолета. Высота 5200 футов. Вылетели вертолеты для уточнения местоположения и состояния"

Translation: "We have aircraft coordinates. Altitude is 5200 feet. Helicopters have taken off to confirm location and current conditions"

"До выяснения обстоятельств нам запретили выдавать какую-либо информацию. Не звоните пока"

Translation: "Until further information is confirmed, we have been forbidden to provide any more information. Don't call for now"


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2798 posts, RR: 4
Reply 147, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 53783 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

From the AP - "Indonesian air force official tells TV network they've found wreckage of Russian jet carrying 48". No word on survivors. Lets hope for the best.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineluxair From Netherlands, joined Jan 2001, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 148, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 53191 times:

What a terrible disaster, i hope and wish anybody involved here the best but seen the situation...well my prayers go out to all of them.
Thank you very much mandala499 for the accurate info regarding the area, you're the pro here and know what you're talking about. It helped me to draw a very clear picture of the surroundings where the accident happened.



Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 52060 times:

Crossing my fingers and praying for the best here. What a sad situation for all.

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 150, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 51627 times:

From what I see on Google Earth, the areas near 5,200 ft elevation are all steeply sloped and heavily forested - is that correct?

User currently offlineSasha From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 151, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 51113 times:

Someone twitted coords as 06.42.61.3S 106.44.41.2E


An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 152, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 52182 times:

Associated Press is reporting that the wreckage has been located per Indonesian military. Very sad news.

Source: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-05-09-23-14-37



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 153, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 52107 times:

Wreckage has been located, as noted above.

Residents of the nearby Bogor village say they saw the aircraft flying low, but didn't hear an explosion or obvious crash sound. (Translated from Thai, so there may be some room from interpretation).

Hoping for the best.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 154, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 51233 times:

The coordinates above are very near the top of the mountain - in very rough, forested terrain.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13121 posts, RR: 100
Reply 155, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 49022 times:
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Mods

Now that the crash site has been found, may we have a new thread: Superjet Disappears Off Radar In Indonesia (part 2)? I would like to preserve the information and this is already a slower loading thread (thanks to great information).

Thanks,
Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 156, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 49909 times:

RIP to those onboard.
Crash site:



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 157, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 48349 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 156):
RIP to those onboard.

such a horrible horrible turn of events...for the program, for everybody on board...everybody....



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 158, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 48901 times:

Per the Associated Press, "Rescuers on the helicopters could clearly see the wreckage located at the top of Mount Salak." The search team stated the crash was clearly identifed as the Sukhoi jet, and there are no signs of any survivors.

May these involved rest in peace.   



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 159, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 49375 times:

A better picture. *sigh*




When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlinegokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 160, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 48123 times:

RIP to those on board...
From the picture of crash site it seems like a head on collision with a steep hill/mountain...
Here is the link:
http://rt.com/news/russian-plane-missing-indonesia-877/



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 161, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 47691 times:
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Quoting zeke (Reply 128):

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 100):

Now, I imagine it's probably meant to be like that before startup, but notice on the TAWS panel, near the top left, it shows SYS FAULT and TERR FAULT and OFF - anything out of the ordinary for this phase?

Assuming the next picture in the sequence was taken after that photo, the displays are blank.

The photos are apparently in reverse order, which makes sense if you look at the button being pushed.

Photo 382 - Man in pilot seat is pushing the Ext Pwr button. Button clearly says "Avail" but not "On", telling us that the plane isn't powered up yet.

Photo 383 - Overhead panel showing Ext Pwr "Avail" and "On", showing a number of other buttons as "Off" that were blank in the prior photo, and most notably, showing TAWS TERR "Fault" and "Off".


User currently offlinebellancacf From United States of America, joined May 2011, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 162, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 47050 times:

Mandala499: Are the vegetation and soil such that the crash could have triggered a landslide that caused the vertical strip seen in the photo, or do bare strips like that occur on those mountains? I wonder if they were pulling up as they hit -- it looks like they might have cleared that ridge with a few more feet beneath them.

User currently offlinetraindoc From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 163, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 46567 times:

The crash site is on the side of Mt. Salak. Per Google maps, this area is almost due south of Jakarta, about 50-75 miles.
The mountain has an elevation of 2000 meters, or about 6600 feet. If the plane descended to 6000 feet, per the last communication, then it would have been below the peak. Clearly, we won't know the cause until the CVR and FDR are recovered and analyzed. Any speculation as to the cause, in my opinion, is disrespectful to those who perished,


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 164, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 46682 times:

Quoting bellancacf (Reply 162):

Mandala499: Are the vegetation and soil such that the crash could have triggered a landslide that caused the vertical strip seen in the photo, or do bare strips like that occur on those mountains? I wonder if they were pulling up as they hit -- it looks like they might have cleared that ridge with a few more feet beneath them.

Right to left, down to up, wings relatively level. Some sharp pitch angle/trajectory on that one.

Bare strips occur, but I'm confident the impact caused the bare patch due to landslide.



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5467 posts, RR: 6
Reply 165, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 43544 times:

Mandala499, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss and the loss of the Indonesian aviation community. Thank you for sharing what you know with us.

Every single loss of an aircraft hurts worse than the last.  


User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 166, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 42879 times:

At this moment the crash reminds of the crash of the Norwegian Hercules that crashed into Kebnekaise in the Swedish mountains 2 months ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Norwegian_C-130_crash

User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2387 posts, RR: 1
Reply 167, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 42723 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 159):

Thats a very sad picture, theres very little to no debris visible, very sad  RIP to those onboard.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 168, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 41751 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 116):

Thanks Mandala for the detailed and I am sure painful posts.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 97):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JspiKXDyats

When I heard the RT News interview with Flightglobal's safety editor, David Learmount, I rolled my eyes.

Quote:
"Because this was a demonstration flight, sometimes the pilots or the crews deliberately take the aircraft right to their limits. And they do that sometimes when the aircraft is quite close to the ground. That's what a demonstration flight is often like. Sometimes they push the limits just too far and that might have happened."

Having been on a number of demonstration flights with customers and VIPs onboard large jets, I've certainly flown adjacent to and lower than mountainous terrain. However, I have only seen it done in VMC conditions, at very measured distances from terrain and using relatively conservative maneuvers (conservative enough that people are free to be out of their seats throughout the flight). I could not imagine this SSJ-100 demo flight with customers onboard could have in any way looked like what Mr. Learmount described.

Now I see the photos and read Mandala's comments...

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 164):
Right to left, down to up, wings relatively level. Some sharp pitch angle/trajectory on that one.

Barring some problem with the aircraft which put it into such close proximity to the mountain, it is hard not to see things a bit closer to Mr Learmont's description. An aircraft climbing to shoot the gap of a low spot on a ridge-line is a thrill, there is no doubt. However, IF this accident and the associated loss of life are a result of the pilots trying to make the flight more exciting, this tragedy gets even more painful and much harder for me to accept. I truly hope the investigation will find this was not the case.

[Edited 2012-05-09 23:06:56]

User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 169, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 41851 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 159):

Mandala, your tag line below the picture is sadly ironic.

The only saving grace seems to be that it must have been instantaneous.


User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 170, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 41801 times:

Tragic. Just woke up to this and was really hoping for the best... like so many other A.netters

There appears to be an impact point, about a third of the way down, possibly the aircraft was in a turn, faced with the mountain and attempted to pull up, resulting in the wreckage spreading up into the overgrowth above? Would that make sense? Clipping the hill at an angle.



Sincere condolences to families. Mandala499, sorry for your loss buddy.

When I heard about the accident I did wonder why on earth, given past accidents a demonstration flight would veer so close to mountains. Surely it would be better to err on the side of caution and demonstrate the aircraft in a region/area with relatively few or no hazards. I do hope lessons can be learned from this accident.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlinerifkyrifky From Indonesia, joined Feb 2011, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 171, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 41237 times:

Shocked & shaken by this tragedy..

May all rest in peace  

Regards,
Rifky


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 172, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 40940 times:

Mandala,

If that picture is confirmation of a head-on CFIT I am afraid that Indonesians will see their grief turn into outrage over the needless loss of innocent souls. Are you hearing any of that locally?

Sorry for your loss.


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 173, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 39508 times:

Extremely sad tragedy. The only consolation is that none of the victims were probably aware of being in danger until the very last moment if this was a CFIT accident in limited visibility.