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AA Increases Flight Time Due To Lack Of Crew  
User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 589 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12904 times:

Here is another wonderful example of how well AA and AE are managed.

http://avherald.com/h?article=44f4cd47&opt=0

Does anyone think that this could have been avoided? I'm sure there are those who are going to say this is somehow the Union or employees fault.

[Edited 2012-05-09 20:02:14]

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12780 times:

And they want to furlough?


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12587 times:

How is this an example of how well AA is managed? It's an example of how a pilot made pretty big mistake. And assuming he was going to time out because of union imposed rules, rather than FAA, it's an example of how unions impose ridiculous restrictions that can hurt customers.


a.
User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 589 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12493 times:

If management was on the ball the plane would have never left without the pilot. We have held for deadheading pilots before nothing new. most of the time the pilot has a late call out from scheduling and gets to the airport when they can, hence holding the flight so that things like this dont happen. MAH4546 you do alot of assuming when its anti union. If you don't already you should fit right into AMR management.

User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12280 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
How is this an example of how well AA is managed? It's an example of how a pilot made pretty big mistake. And assuming he was going to time out because of union imposed rules, rather than FAA, it's an example of how unions impose ridiculous restrictions that can hurt customers.

Do you really think an employee group that has been betrayed and lied to for a decade is going to go out of their way to help the management? I'm the first to admit that the front line AAgony employees are not pleasant to deal with, but I understand why they feel the way they do. I hope that merger with US goes through. AA needs new blood in DFW. They're getting nowhere fast with their current pool of management.


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12189 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):

How is this an example of how well AA is managed? It's an example of how a pilot made pretty big mistake. And assuming he was going to time out because of union imposed rules, rather than FAA, it's an example of how unions impose ridiculous restrictions that can hurt customers.

How do you know it wasn't an FAA imposed rule. It's not as though the AA Eagles have such a fabulous contract that their own rules are much, if at all, better than the FAA regs. Of course I expect nothing less from you.


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12149 times:
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I honestly don't see how anyone could blame AA management or the unions for this. It was the responsibility of one individual to get to the flight on time. That individual not only failed to show up on time for their flight, but that also failed to communicate that they were running late so the decision could be made to hold the flight.

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12153 times:

Quoting miaami (Reply 3):
If you don't already you should fit right into AMR management.

I'd fit right in at any company that is bullied by unions like AMR is. You think it's a coincidence that JetBlue and Delta Air Lines, both largely non-union, are highly regarded for excellent employee-management relations? I think not - there aren't any unions to allow them to get lethargic and lazy about their job like at AMR and UAL. The employees have top notch work ethic and management rewards them appropriately.

It's always surprised me that a company strongly rooted in three anti-union states - Florida, Oklahoma and Texas - is so strongly unionized.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 5):
How do you know it wasn't an FAA imposed rule. It's not as though the AA Eagles have such a fabulous contract that their own rules are much, if at all, better than the FAA regs. Of course I expect nothing less from you.

I don't know. Hence the qualifier.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 6):
[
I honestly don't see how anyone could blame AA management or the unions for this. It was the responsibility of one individual to get to the flight on time. That individual not only failed to show up on time for their flight, but that also failed to communicate that they were running late so the decision could be made to hold the flight.


Because its always management's fault. Unions never do anything wrong, apparently.

[Edited 2012-05-10 00:17:23]


a.
User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1010 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12044 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
You think it's a coincidence that JetBlue and Delta Air Lines, both largely non-union, are highly regarded for excellent employee-management relations?

And the same could be said for Alaska, pm-Continental, and Southwest, all of which are (or were) highly unionized carriers.



United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11859 times:

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 6):
I honestly don't see how anyone could blame AA management or the unions for this. It was the responsibility of one individual to get to the flight on time. That individual not only failed to show up on time for their flight, but that also failed to communicate that they were running late so the decision could be made to hold the flight.

You're making lot of assumptions. Do you know when said pilot was notified that he would be relief on the return leg?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11360 times:

  

Jeez.

Mistakes happen - at AA, and every airline. Somebody screwed up here - it doesn't mean AA's management is incompetent, nor that AA's unions are evil.

This negativity and cynicism is reaching a fever pitch. It's quite sad.


User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 589 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10975 times:

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 8):
And the same could be said for Alaska, pm-Continental, and Southwest, all of which are (or were) highly unionized carriers.

MAH4546 conviently overlooks the examples that dont fit his anti union stance.


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10796 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
You think it's a coincidence that JetBlue and Delta Air Lines, both largely non-union, are highly regarded for excellent employee-management relations?

I don't think it's a coincidence at all. But you are drawing the wrong conclusion, AA doesn't have the problems they have because they just happen to have a unionized workforce. They have the unionized workforce they have because of how they've managed the airline and employees. There is a reason that unions that have been trying to get on property at Delta for years keep getting defeated - the employees prefer dealing with management versus a union!!! A am most certainly not a union supporter, in fact I think unions have largely outlived their purpose and are more corrupt now than they businesses they were instituted to protect employees from, however there are airlines that function quite well with a unionized workforce - so clearly the problem does not lie with the 'union component' in this case but with the management-employee relationship dynamic at AA.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10313 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 12):
I don't think it's a coincidence at all. But you are drawing the wrong conclusion, AA doesn't have the problems they have because they just happen to have a unionized workforce. They have the unionized workforce they have because of how they've managed the airline and employees. There is a reason that unions that have been trying to get on property at Delta for years keep getting defeated - the employees prefer dealing with management versus a union!!! A am most certainly not a union supporter, in fact I think unions have largely outlived their purpose and are more corrupt now than they businesses they were instituted to protect employees from, however there are airlines that function quite well with a unionized workforce - so clearly the problem does not lie with the 'union component' in this case but with the management-employee relationship dynamic at AA.

This, ^^^^^^^^^^. Best thought out and presented opinion on management vs union on the entire site.

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
This negativity and cynicism is reaching a fever pitch. It's quite sad.

  



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently onlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9491 times:

"How is this an example of how well AA is managed? It's an example of how a pilot made pretty big mistake. And assuming he was going to time out because of union imposed rules, rather than FAA, it's an example of how unions impose ridiculous restrictions that can hurt customers."

What a joke this statement is

I worked for Eagle for 4 years. And the max duty day is 16 hours per the FAA.

ALPA had a contract that lowered it to 14 hours...that was made of swiss cheese and had enough loop holes that in 4 years, I never, ever, ever saw a crew time out after 14 hours. EVER!

What I was made to do on several occassions is return to the gate because Crew Scheduling had to put a crewmember on/take a crewmember off in a deadheading situation such as this.

Understand that when you run a regional (And this is Eagle not AA) you push the envelope on every item:

1. Crews frequently get min rest
2. Crews frequently fly 4-6 legs a day
3. Crew frequently are up against a duty clock because when you take item 1 from above you reduce legal length of duty day AND when you take item 2 from above you frequently incur delays going into an out of a hub.
4. The airline is usually min staffed in every base. Partly poor planning, partly cost savings. So it is not unusual to deadhead a pilot halfway across the country to fly a 30 min flight. The flight has to be covered so a warm body is a warm body.
5. Crew usually don't live at base because they make no money and can't afford to live in a place like Chicago so you get guys commuting in from all over the country to get to work. This means missed connections, missed assignments, etc


User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 486 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9474 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
This negativity and cynicism is reaching a fever pitch. It's quite sad.

I totally agree. But you're just now coming to this conclusion?


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9383 times:

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 15):
I totally agree. But you're just now coming to this conclusion?

You neglected to read the statement he made the line above

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
Mistakes happen - at AA, and every airline. Somebody screwed up here - it doesn't mean AA's management is incompetent, nor that AA's unions are evil.

That's the most true statement ever about AA management and unions



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9279 times:

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 15):
I totally agree. But you're just now coming to this conclusion?

Because it's worse than ever. AA's corporate culture has always been dysfunctional - a heady brew of cynicism and arrogance all around (beyond just management). But now it seems this cynicism has just gotten ridiculous. Nobody - and again, I don't just mean management - seems to be willing to give anyone else one inch, and everyone seems to just assume incompetence at every turn. Again - sometimes mistakes happen. It happens at every airline, and indeed at every company.

As someone who knows many AA employees all over the place, and who has had AAdvantage elite status for four years, I can honestly say that AA gets more right - operationally, and in terms of customer service - than most other U.S. carriers. Perhaps it's a sign of the times that the "basics" seem to be what stand out the most these days when it comes to customer service, but while Delta and Southwest may have far better marketing and P.R., AA honestly does know what they're doing in most cases. You call, and generally (unless a tornado is hitting DFW), someone who clearly speaks American English picks up the phone. The agents - on the phone and at the airport - all know what they're doing, and are empowered to fix problems. The flight attendants do their jobs - sometimes rather "efficiently," but most of the time (especially in premium cabins) with skill and experience. And AA's premium cabins are - generally - among the best in terms of food, and AAdvantage is - bar none - the best FF program in the U.S. in my experience.

As I have often said, AA deserves enormous credit - both management and employees - for all they get right, not just the few things that need to be fixed. I realize the present predicament sucks - and I'm not here to defend it - just as the same process sucked when it happened at the other legacies. But, this cynicism will ultimately destroy what little hope of a future the people who actually want to stay have left. Unfortunately, as evidenced by some recent comments on other forums by certain AA employees, some now are acting purely out of a vindictive desire to see AA brought down. If you hate the company that much, and assume every manager is an idiot, and the company is beyond repair, and everything the company does is wrong and stupid, then that's fine - but why not just leave? Just leave. Get out while you can.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

This isn't new. I was flying ORD-ATL on mainline back in 2006, the day after Christmas. The MD-80 had done an ORD-STL turn, and the plane was due to return to ORD from ATL.

Upon the aircraft arriving at the gate at ORD, the gate agent announced that there was going to be a short delay. Eventually, I learned that the captain was at his maximum flying for the month, and that a reserve captain was going to work ORD-ATL-ORD. But, she was coming in from DFW, and her flight was running late.

This begged two questions. First, how could the captain be over his monthly limit, but not the F/O? They normally fly together all month.

Second, considering the size of the ORD crew base, and the fact that most narrowbody flying out of ORD was MD-80 (The 737s had been banished), how could there not be enough reserve captains to work a flight?


User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8179 times:

Crews don't necessarily get paired together for the entire month. Some places do it this way, some don't but it would be easy to pull or swap crews for any number of reasons. Maybe the CA picked up time on days off, or was extended or junior manned, etc. Airlines have run at minimal staffing levels for years, so it is not uncommon to see every reserve on duty on a particular day being used, meaning they have to find a reserve pilot from somewhere else in the system to work a flight. When it gets bad enough, pilos that are at home with their families in their days off start getting called to come in. It happens when management tries to save a dime by stepping over a dollar.

[Edited 2012-05-10 10:11:48]

[Edited 2012-05-10 10:14:14]


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7810 times:
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Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9):

You're making lot of assumptions. Do you know when said pilot was notified that he would be relief on the return leg?

Maybe I misunderstood the article when it said that a pilot missed his flight and had been rostered onto the return that the pilot actually knew he was flying out to Sioux City and back for that purpose.

Fair use:

"The airline reported one of the pilots on the flight would have exceeded permitted hours on the return flight. Therefore another pilot had been rostered onto the return flight, who however had to travel to Sioux City as a passenger, but arrived late at the gate. For some reason the flight had not been held, so that when the pilot arrived at the gate the aircraft had already departed. It was decided to have the aircraft return to Chicago to be able to perform the return flight, otherwise the aircraft could not have departed Sioux City again."


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7689 times:

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 20):
Maybe I misunderstood the article when it said that a pilot missed his flight and had been rostered onto the return that the pilot actually knew he was flying out to Sioux City and back for that purpose.

Fair use:

"The airline reported one of the pilots on the flight would have exceeded permitted hours on the return flight. Therefore another pilot had been rostered onto the return flight, who however had to travel to Sioux City as a passenger, but arrived late at the gate. For some reason the flight had not been held, so that when the pilot arrived at the gate the aircraft had already departed. It was decided to have the aircraft return to Chicago to be able to perform the return flight, otherwise the aircraft could not have departed Sioux City again."



LOL that's funny. Like I said, Do any of you know WHEN the pilot was 'rostered' for the flight. I'm not disputing that he was late. But in the real world there are always minimums. You call a guy at 3 in the afternoon for a 5pm flight but the contract says he's suppose to have 2.5 hours to get to the airpor then there's a good chance he may be late. Is it his fault? Hell no!

Secondly, you do not know if he was sitting reserve or was coming in from another live flight to which he was an active crew member. He could have been scheduled from THAT morning for the deadhead but we all know how on-time regional operations run. He gets back to ORD 30 mintues behind schedule on his final leg and boom he's late for the dead head. It was flight control's fault that the a/c left without him. Period. by the a/c leaving, they KNEW the return woudl cancel. I've never seen that before in my 6 years between EV/DL. They KNOW if there is a must-ride crew member on the flight and the a/c will not leave until A) he's on board or B) they hear from flight ops as to why they're still not there and if they will have a back-up crew member to fill the void. Last resort will be to leave him behind knowing the return flight will cancel. It's not this guy's fault. They (flight control/flight ops knew full well the return would have to cancel without this guy on board. Sounds like piss poor execution if you ask me.

THAT'S the real world; coming from someone that's worked in those situations.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2823 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
How is this an example of how well AA is managed? It's an example of how a pilot made pretty big mistake. And assuming he was going to time out because of union imposed rules, rather than FAA, it's an example of how unions impose ridiculous restrictions that can hurt customers.

I am not very fond of unions personally either, but what is the basis for your assumption that there was a contractual issue rather than an FAR problem (duty day, 30 in 7, etc.) in this case? Before launching into an unfounded screed, please learn the facts of the case.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 5):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):

How is this an example of how well AA is managed? It's an example of how a pilot made pretty big mistake. And assuming he was going to time out because of union imposed rules, rather than FAA, it's an example of how unions impose ridiculous restrictions that can hurt customers.

How do you know it wasn't an FAA imposed rule.

Exactly. He doesn't.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 6):
I honestly don't see how anyone could blame AA management or the unions for this. It was the responsibility of one individual to get to the flight on time. That individual not only failed to show up on time for their flight, but that also failed to communicate that they were running late so the decision could be made to hold the flight.

When was the deadheading crewmember called out or rerouted? It is a managerial failure on some level (whether at the level of the agent or above none of us can possibly know) that the flight left without the deadheading crewmember onboard. The company knows (or should know) who is onboard, and it's not that uncommon to wait for a deadheading crewmember that has been rerouted or called to the airport on short notice to cover a flight later in the day.

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 12):
A am most certainly not a union supporter, in fact I think unions have largely outlived their purpose and are more corrupt now than they businesses they were instituted to protect employees from, however there are airlines that function quite well with a unionized workforce - so clearly the problem does not lie with the 'union component' in this case but with the management-employee relationship dynamic at AA.

I agree with you 100%. Nicely put, and thank you.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 14):
What I was made to do on several occassions is return to the gate because Crew Scheduling had to put a crewmember on/take a crewmember off in a deadheading situation such as this.

Understand that when you run a regional (And this is Eagle not AA) you push the envelope on every item:

1. Crews frequently get min rest
2. Crews frequently fly 4-6 legs a day
3. Crew frequently are up against a duty clock because when you take item 1 from above you reduce legal length of duty day AND when you take item 2 from above you frequently incur delays going into an out of a hub.
4. The airline is usually min staffed in every base. Partly poor planning, partly cost savings. So it is not unusual to deadhead a pilot halfway across the country to fly a 30 min flight. The flight has to be covered so a warm body is a warm body.

Yes, exactly. Thank you for this contribution: it's always nice to have someone with firsthand experience contribute without the inflammatory rhetoric. My only slight comment would be that I think that manning is mostly a cost savings issue: few organizations intentionally plan poorly, though some are much better at executing with limited resources than others.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 18):
This begged two questions. First, how could the captain be over his monthly limit, but not the F/O? They normally fly together all month.

No they don't. Some airlines have lines where this is the case, and some don't, but in all cases people are out sick, pick up trips, are rerouted, have vacation, have training, etc.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 20):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9):

You're making lot of assumptions. Do you know when said pilot was notified that he would be relief on the return leg?

Maybe I misunderstood the article when it said that a pilot missed his flight and had been rostered onto the return that the pilot actually knew he was flying out to Sioux City and back for that purpose.

Fair use:

"The airline reported one of the pilots on the flight would have exceeded permitted hours on the return flight. Therefore another pilot had been rostered onto the return flight, who however had to travel to Sioux City as a passenger, but arrived late at the gate. For some reason the flight had not been held, so that when the pilot arrived at the gate the aircraft had already departed. It was decided to have the aircraft return to Chicago to be able to perform the return flight, otherwise the aircraft could not have departed Sioux City again."

I don't grasp the confusion. The plane had pilot scheduled to deadhead (ride as a passenger) to SUX, because one member of the flying crew was going to have some kind of legality issue and was unable to fly the leg back. The plane left ORD without the deadhead pilot onboard. When it was discovered that he was not onboard, the decision was made to return to ORD to get him because otherwise they wouldn't have a legal crew to fly the return leg to ORD later in the day. It is entirely normal that the pilots flying the leg would not know if he boarded; that the company allowed the flight to depart without the deadhead crewmember is the ultimate issue here. As for why the deadheading crewmember did not get to the gate on time, there are numerous possible reasons, and we have no way of knowing the actual facts of the case with the information presented.


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7447 times:
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Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21):

THAT'S the real world; coming from someone that's worked in those situations.

  

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 22):

I don't grasp the confusion. The plane had pilot scheduled to deadhead (ride as a passenger) to SUX, because one member of the flying crew was going to have some kind of legality issue and was unable to fly the leg back. The plane left ORD without the deadhead pilot onboard. When it was discovered that he was not onboard, the decision was made to return to ORD to get him because otherwise they wouldn't have a legal crew to fly the return leg to ORD later in the day. It is entirely normal that the pilots flying the leg would not know if he boarded; that the company allowed the flight to depart without the deadhead crewmember is the ultimate issue here. As for why the deadheading crewmember did not get to the gate on time, there are numerous possible reasons, and we have no way of knowing the actual facts of the case with the information presented.

  

Thanks for taking the time to share the additional information - helps create a better understanding and put things into perspective.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2823 posts, RR: 45
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 23):
Thanks for taking the time to share the additional information - helps create a better understanding and put things into perspective.

No problem; glad to help!  


25 flyboi4life : You never know what time the deadheading pilot was informed. This falls on crew scheduling and dispatch for not communicating with each other regardi
26 B727FA : Perhaps the FO was a RSV FO and only had a few hours on the month, or, in light of the time of year, it's MORE likely that the CA had timed out on the
27 N8911E : Ok, I may obviously be wrong here, and obviously a little out of tune with the times, but last I heard (A Documentary on AA and AArpey), Management an
28 YTZ : Didn't the pilot know he was going to time out? Why did he still depart?
29 futureualpilot : He might have said something but most of the time the company will still have you to fly until you can't/aren't legal to. The usual excuse is we'll ge
30 B727FA : It's still his flight to cover. They may have taken pressure from the ramp tower, ops to get the flight gone...regardless if the DH-er were there. He
31 MAH4546 : You mean to tell me that a trio of airlines that have had relatively prosperous times for the past two decades and more have little union problems? T
32 miaami : You seem to overlook the fact that ALL the AA unions gave back to the company during difficult times to keep AA out of BK in 2003. Meanwhile the exec
33 N8911E : Ohhhh... Well, while not directed at me, that certainly answers my question. So the employees basically said "Here's a piece of our bread so you don'
34 at : That's a good point. There was an article in today's NYTimes about AA indicating they were trying to void existing contracts so they could pay lower
35 UALWN : I'd say that a trio of heavy unionized airlines have been among the most prosperous during the last two decades, indicating that a strongly unionized
36 N62NA : A very good point - something that should be repeated around here from time to time.
37 OA412 : You conveniently forget this little fact every time you rail against the unions at AA. There are at least 3 unionized airlines in the US with great e
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