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BA Start To Transfer BD Routes  
User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 14929 times:

bmi flights to and from Bergen, Basel, Nice, Vienna, Stavangar, Hanover, Agadir, Marrakech and Casablanca will have their bmi flight code (BD) and number replaced with BA ones from May 23.

The flight schedule, including time, date and terminal for the flights will remain the same.

From today, all bmi flights will be available for sale exclusively through ba.com or the British Airways’ call centres. Customers who have booked a bmi flight will be able to service their booking via flybmi.com

The airline’s baggage policies will apply to any BA coded flights from May 23. However, the airline will honour bmi’s checked baggage allowance for any customers who booked prior to May 10. Any new bookings made after today will use BA’s baggage policies.

Further routes will be changed over to British Airways’ system in the coming weeks.

[Edited 2012-05-10 04:09:03]

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26909 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 14752 times:

Link to report to be found here :

British Airways to take over nine Bmi routes

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/tr...-to-take-over-nine-Bmi-routes.html


User currently offlineboysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 13746 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Thread starter):
Hanover

Oooo on what equipment? Last summer BD flew to HAJ with BMI Regional's ERJ-145's. Surely BA will not be doing this?


User currently offlinejwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 1273 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 13727 times:

Quoting GSTBA (Thread starter):
From today, all bmi flights will be available for sale exclusively through ba.com or the British Airways’ call centres. Customers who have booked a bmi flight will be able to service their booking via flybmi.com

In an email i received from BMI earlier, it said it would only alloy from flights departing from LHR.



A300,A319,A320,A321,A333,A343,A346,A388,732,733,734,735,738,741,742,744,752,763,772,77W,788,Q400,DC10,E145,E170,E175,E19
User currently offlineplanejamie From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 576 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 13607 times:

Quoting boysteve (Reply 2):
Oooo on what equipment? Last summer BD flew to HAJ with BMI Regional's ERJ-145's. Surely BA will not be doing this?

I presume BA will use an A319 (maybe one of their own) - it could work given that BA have way more connecting traffic than BD ever did and I assume there is very little on the HAJ side?


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 13573 times:

I wonder what they'll do with the A330's? Will BA keep them, dump them, or maybe order some of their own!


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1421 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13346 times:

Quoting FI642 (Reply 5):
I wonder what they'll do with the A330's? Will BA keep them, dump them, or maybe order some of their own!

Already been VERY WELL reported on the other BMI-BA threads. You may want to read them but long story short...theyll be gone very very soon!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2080 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13341 times:

I see they are using the old CityFlyer flight numbers (BA81xx). VIE and HAJ are not showing up yet though (for the BD operated flights).

I'm making a guess that Casablanca, Agadir, Marrakech, Stavanger, Bergen and Hannover will stay for Winter 2012-13 if they are getting BA flight numbers already.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineRJA321 From Jordan, joined Mar 2009, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11623 times:

Where does that leave BMI's previous destinations to the Middle East? Will they be operated by BA or code-shared?


Hurry up, before we all come to our senses!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26909 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11007 times:

BA have announced LHR -LBA and LHR -RTM using BD slots.

User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 10974 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
BA have announced LHR -LBA and LHR -RTM using BD slots.

Interesting - do we think those are genuine long term routes or just slot holders while they wait to build up the long-haul network? Opening new stations would appear to be a strange decision if they are just slot holding routes.



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,B463,(..50 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlinejet72uk From UK - England, joined Oct 2011, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 10813 times:

and LHR-ZAG announced too!

User currently offlineFi642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10498 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 7):

Already been VERY WELL reported on the other BMI-BA threads. You may want to read them but long story short...theyll be gone very very soon!

Too bad! Although I'n not surprised. I remember watching them fly over after they'd left IAD.



737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3183 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10090 times:

After reading this news I used my remaining BMI points for a Bergen to London flight.

I booked it through the BMI website and then about 10 minutes later I received an email saying that my flight.

Quote:
Dear Customer,

bmi flight switch to British Airways

As part of the planned integration of bmi into British Airways, we are switching a number of bmi flights to have British Airways flight numbers.

Your flight is one of those affected.

Booking reference: 7*****

Flight BD 552 on 13 June has become flight BA 8151

From: Bergen (Flesland)
To: London Heathrow

Depart: 13 Jun 2012 18:20
Arrive: 13 Jun 2012 19:30

These new BA flights continue to operate to and from London Heathrow Terminal 1

Other flight details remain the same.

Any arrangements you made for car hire, hotels or parking associated with this booking remain unchanged.

To see your full itinerary click on the link below:

http://www.ba.com/mmb/...................................................

Note The link above provides NO access to your booking, so please only forward this email if you want the recipient to access your booking and the related services.

What else has changed ?

Certain BA policies now apply to this new BA flight, including:-

check-in at London Heathrow closes 45 minutes before your flight departs.

in business class, you are entitled to carry one piece of hand baggage plus a laptop or hand bag.

visit ba.com for full details of all policy changes.

All other conditions of carriage remain unchanged.

From 23 May 2012, flights switching to BA flight numbers will be operated by bmi (British Midland) aircraft and flight and cabin crew. However, over the summer months they will be converting to British Airways aircraft, crew and on-board service.

You can check which airline will be operating your flight up to 14 days prior to departure. Please check ba.com Flight Status for the most up to date information.

visit ba.com Flight Status to check the ‘operating carrier’

NOTE:
The up-to-date information on which airline is operating your flight will always be found in ba.com Flight Status, rather than Manage My Booking.

Now I just need to get to Bergen, and there is a nice MD81 flight I can take from ARN, after flying in from Berlin, which is really going to be TXL on a SAS 737-600.



Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9995 times:
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Question, at LHR, how difficult is it to connect from T1 to T5 (or T3)? I assume the rapid switch over is to start maximizing connection opportunities. (e.g., any of these cities to TATL)

Quoting GSTBA (Thread starter):
bmi flights to and from Bergen, Basel, Nice, Vienna, Stavangar, Hanover, Agadir, Marrakech and Casablanca will have their bmi flight code (BD) and number replaced with BA ones from May 23.

I'm assuming other BMI destinations will convert over on an accelerating basis?

Another question, is there any crew switch-over from BMI to BA, or will these be BA flights operated by BMI for now? In other words, I ask:
1. Will the planes still be in BMI colors or BA colors?
2. Will the crew be integrated into BA, or still flying under the BM cert?

Any links for crew integration would be appreciated.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineeham From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 9725 times:

According Dutch Aviation website negotiations between BA en RTM-Airport are still ongoing.

Rumours say equipment will be Airbus A319, hope it works out!

Think most business people do prefer LCY over LHR anytime.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9579 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
Another question, is there any crew switch-over from BMI to BA, or will these be BA flights operated by BMI for now?

From the BA e-mail quoted in Reply 13:

Quoting BNE (Reply 13):
From 23 May 2012, flights switching to BA flight numbers will be operated by bmi (British Midland) aircraft and flight and cabin crew. However, over the summer months they will be converting to British Airways aircraft, crew and on-board service.


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 802 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9557 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 16):
However, over the summer months they will be converting to British Airways aircraft, crew and on-board service.

This is an interesting comment as my understanding was that the BMI aircraft and crew will 'simply' become BA aircraft and crew - maybe what they mean is that in the short term the BMI wont be fully integrated with BA but over the course of the summer planes and people will get a BA makeover and you wont know which was which and that the crew rosters will mingle BA and ex-BMI crews together.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9410 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 17):
This is an interesting comment as my understanding was that the BMI aircraft and crew will 'simply' become BA aircraft and crew - maybe what they mean is that in the short term the BMI wont be fully integrated with BA but over the course of the summer planes and people will get a BA makeover and you wont know which was which and that the crew rosters will mingle BA and ex-BMI crews together.

The quote in Reply 16 is from an e-mail from BA to BNE reproduced in full in Reply 13.

Here is a more complete quote from that e-mail:

Quoting BNE" class="quote" target="_blank">BNE (Reply 13):
From 23 May 2012, flights switching to BA flight numbers will be operated by bmi (British Midland) aircraft and flight and cabin crew. However, over the summer months they will be converting to British Airways aircraft, crew and on-board service.

You can check which airline will be operating your flight up to 14 days prior to departure. Please check ba.com Flight Status for the most up to date information.

So you will know whiuch is which if you decide to check the BA web site 14 days before the departure of any given flight.


User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3998 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9256 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
Another question, is there any crew switch-over from BMI to BA, or will these be BA flights operated by BMI for now? In other words, I ask:
1. Will the planes still be in BMI colors or BA colors?
2. Will the crew be integrated into BA, or still flying under the BM cert?

The problem is the AOC, Air Operators Certificate.
To begin with BMI crews are flying BMI planes under the BMI AOC.
The crews are trained in BA procedures, and can then fly BA aircraft.
The aircraft modified to a BA standard (not the same) and can then be flown by BA crews.
First BA flight of a BMI aircraft is 26May G-DBCB to NCE. Last conversion by end Dec.
So its being done in stages.
Step 1 is 5 A319.and by the end of May the ex-BMI route to NCE will be flown under the BA AOC, but with ex-BMI aircraft and crew from T1. Then BSL VIE BGO and SVG. These are all A319 only routes.
Then it gets more complicated. The aircraft painting and interior changes are also being done, but not necessarily at the same time.
Please don't ask questions, because I am confused myself.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26909 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8609 times:

BMI stopping all flights LHR-DAM from 30th May . I guess the political enviroment is to blame.

User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8353 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 19):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
Another question, is there any crew switch-over from BMI to BA, or will these be BA flights operated by BMI for now? In other words, I ask:
1. Will the planes still be in BMI colors or BA colors?
2. Will the crew be integrated into BA, or still flying under the BM cert?

The problem is the AOC, Air Operators Certificate.
To begin with BMI crews are flying BMI planes under the BMI AOC.
The crews are trained in BA procedures, and can then fly BA aircraft.
The aircraft modified to a BA standard (not the same) and can then be flown by BA crews.
First BA flight of a BMI aircraft is 26May G-DBCB to NCE. Last conversion by end Dec.
So its being done in stages.
Step 1 is 5 A319.and by the end of May the ex-BMI route to NCE will be flown under the BA AOC, but with ex-BMI aircraft and crew from T1. Then BSL VIE BGO and SVG. These are all A319 only routes.
Then it gets more complicated. The aircraft painting and interior changes are also being done, but not necessarily at the same time.
Please don't ask questions, because I am confused myself.


All sounds very hap hazard to me. Wouldn't be surprised if it turns into chaos with people at the wrong terminals etc.

[Edited 2012-05-18 10:08:17]

User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7629 times:

Quoting BA174 (Reply 21):
All sounds very hap hazard to me. Wouldn't be surprised if it turns into chaos with people at the wrong terminals etc.

The risk of passenger confusion will be high where both airlines operate a particular route, both of which now have BA flight numbers. Nice, Vienna & Basel for example.

Hopefully the use of flight numbers in the 8xxx series should help make it easier to send people the right way, with a blanket statement like "all flights in the 8000-8300 range will operate from T1" for example.

Does BA have any other flight numbers in use in the 8000 range? Codeshares or anything?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7485 times:
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Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 19):
So its being done in stages.

Thank you. That is... an interesting process and we'll leave it at that. I think I get what will happen as much as anyone (which implies issues to LHR at some point...).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineRUHFlyer From Saudi Arabia, joined Mar 2007, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7402 times:

It would be interesting to see what their plans are for RUH and JED. Any idea?

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3546 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 23):

Hopefully not too much confusion as uk airlines tend to take email addresses and mobile numbers so they can advise changes by both email and text message. Would imagine all passengers have been informed by now.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7276 times:

Wouldn't be easier to shuffle some routes like saying all VIE flights depart T3 and Warsaw moves to T1.


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7600 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 19):
Step 1 is 5 A319.and by the end of May the ex-BMI route to NCE will be flown under the BA AOC, but with ex-BMI aircraft and crew from T1. Then BSL VIE BGO and SVG. These are all A319 only routes.

These will apparently operate with BA crews not ex BDs. Then slowly the ex BD crew will join them.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 28, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7375 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 22):
Does BA have any other flight numbers in use in the 8000 range?

They have used flight numbers in this range for some short haul flights out of LGW. The range reserved for these flights was, I believe, BA7950 to BA8199. For example BA8049 was a LGW-JER flight last summer. But I believe all these flights have now been renumbered into the 2xxx range.

BA franchise operator, Sun-Air of Scandinavia currently has flight numbers in the BA8200 to BA8299 series reserved. They actually use flight numbers in the range between BA8201 (BLL-DUS) to BA8292 (BMA-AAR).

I believe that the range BA8300 to BA8399 and BA8500 to BA8549 were reserved for BA World Cargo flights. Although all flights operated on their own metal currently fall in the range BA3301 (ORD-IAH-STN-DMM-DXB-HKG) to BA3456 (HKG-MAA-STN-FRA). However BA8571/72 is an ICN-LHR-ICN code share flight on a KE 744F.

BA CityFlyer operates flights in the range BA8453 (LCY-AMS) to BA8493 (LCY-ARN) and BA8700 (LCY-EDI) to BA8769 (LCY-ZRH)

The BA8850 to BA8999 range is reserved for code share flights on Kingfisher Airlines flights. For example BA8851 is a BOM-BLR IT 320 flight while BA8935 is an IT BOM-AMD flight also on a 320.


User currently offlineLofty From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7022 times:

All flights will be operated by BMI crews until the AOC transfers to BA 1 aircraft at a time then they will be operated by T5 based Flight and Cabin crew. Then the BMI crew retrain and become BA crew.

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 30, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6765 times:

BD 319s currently operating LHR-BSL-LHR (BD161/62) looked to have a long layover in BSL from around 1000 to around 1600 hrs. But when I looked here

http://data.flight24.com/airplanes/g-dbcb/

for 2, 3. 9 and 11 May I saw that the aircraft operating the above flights does not sit idly for several hours. Instead it operates BSL-BCN-BSL (LX1934/35) very much like G-DBCA is primarily dedicated to the three-times daily TXL-LHR-TXL rotations (LH3372/73/74/75/76/77).

The difference is that the BSL flight is about to become a BA flight. Does this mean that oneworld BA aircraft and crews will be operating on behalf of Star Alliance Swiss International between BSL and BCN until the end of the Summer Timetable?

(By the way other BD aircraft operated the LX BCN flight on other days earlier this month. It was, for example, G-DBCG on 4, 5 and 10 May.)


User currently offlineOLBA From Lebanon, joined Jun 2011, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

Does anyone have any idea what will happen with the flights to BEY?

User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 7
Reply 32, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6582 times:
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Quoting VV701 (Reply 30):
BSL-BCN-BSL (LX1934/35)

Showing as a Swiss European ARJ from June .


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26909 posts, RR: 58
Reply 33, posted (2 years 3 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6577 times:

Quoting BA" class="quote" target="_blank">OLBA (Reply 31):

Operating as normal and bookable on BA.COM


User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 34, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6003 times:

Quoting BA" class="quote" target="_blank">OLBA (Reply 31):
Does anyone have any idea what will happen with the flights to BEY?

I flew LHR-BEY on 14th May and it was jam packed. A flight attendant on the flight that I know said that the BD staff will be spread across BA and she was looking forward to seeing more of Europe. She didn't know what would happen to Beirut but said that it was consistently busy. I flew back from Beirut yesterday. I asked the check in lady what she knew and she said that all they know is that it is business as usual for the summer season and after that , they do have no idea.
She also offered me an upgrade to Business for $300 which I took advantage of and got my favourite seat- 6A!

The flight yesterday was again very busy, with the majority of passengers being Canadian or American. All blonde hair and blue eyes. When I got to Heathrow, on the baggage carousel TV screen it listed our flight which originated in Khartoum AND another flight which flew Damascus-Beirut-London. I thought that the flight was direct to Damascus? This means that from Beirut they fly to Adis Ababa, Khartoum and Damascus. Interesting. I could see the second BD aircraft parked at a remote stand at BEY.



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineshamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

SVG and BGO will have BA crew from July.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26909 posts, RR: 58
Reply 36, posted (2 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5740 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 34):
I thought that the flight was direct to Damascus? This means that from Beirut they fly to Adis Ababa, Khartoum and Damascus. Interesting. I could see the second BD aircraft parked at a remote stand at BEY.

Seems they are routing DAM-BEY-LHR until it gets suspended at the end of the month.


User currently offlinejwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 1273 posts, RR: 4
Reply 37, posted (2 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 5434 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 22):
Does BA have any other flight numbers in use in the 8000 range?
Quoting VV701 (Reply 28):
Does BA have any other flight numbers in use in the 8000 range?

I was on BA8735 from FRA on March. It was BA Cityflyer into LCY though



A300,A319,A320,A321,A333,A343,A346,A388,732,733,734,735,738,741,742,744,752,763,772,77W,788,Q400,DC10,E145,E170,E175,E19
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (2 years 3 months ago) and read 5061 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 34):
I flew LHR-BEY on 14th May and it was jam packed.

I think BA will keep BEY and some others like Baku and may be Tehran. The big issue will be the aircraft used.

When do you think BA will streamline the BD operation? I honestly do not think that BA will keep the Vienna route split between T3 and T1 or Basle between T5 and T1.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 39, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 38):
When do you think BA will streamline the BD operation?

28 October 2012.

By the start of the Winter 2012-13 season I think we will see:

All BD coded flights gone
All former BD operations operating under BA's AOC
All retained former BD aircraft in BA livery (including several 319s still in the 'Dove' livery)
All BD flight and cabin crew integrated into BA

But BA flights operating from T1, T3 and T5.

In terms of my last prophecy one complication is domestic flights. Both T1 and T5 have the ability to handle passengers arriving and departing on domestic flights. in their latest report Airport Coordination Ltd detail:

T1 has the capacity to handle:

1,500 domestic arrivals an hour
930 Common Travel Area (Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man and Channel Islands) arrivals an hour
1,600 international arrivals an hour

T5 has the capacity to handle:

4,500 passengers international and domestic departures an hour

3,750 international arrivals an hour (with no data for domestic and CTA arrivals).

Of course changes to these restrictions can occur through, for example the addition of new or the transfer of existing Border Control facilities. But it is a factor which may result in the continued separation of, for example, domestic flights across T1 and T5. We might - but God forbid - see this issue being addressed by having separate sales of seats from, say, EDI to T1 LHR and to T5 LHR depending on which flight a passenger wishes to connect.

I mention this fairly way out situation to indicate that the future of which terminals will be used for which flights might not be entirely in BA's control. They may have to work very closely with BAA and the UK Border Agency.


User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 40, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4737 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 38):
The big issue will be the aircraft used.

I agree - BA use their A321s on relatively short haul segments with either no Business class cabin or a short haul fashioned business cabin (similar seat pitch, just middle seat blocked out)
So, either BA are going to have a sub fleet of A321s to serve those longer ex bmi routes (Beirut, Amman, Damascus, Baku, Khartoum, Adis Ababa etc) with proper business class (2+2 & 40"+ seat pitch as offered on bmi medium haul) OR
they will use the ex bmi 321s to supplement their existing European fleet and operate their standard long haul fleet on these "new" routes.

I have a gut feeling that Beirut will go from twice daily to once daily (the ongoing Khartoum, Adis Ababa and Damascus routes being suspended or given their own non stop service) but will see the return of BA's 767s at Beirut with the new interiors. Summer season could see sporadic 777 service to cope with the increase in passenger demand.
I see no other aircraft they could operate to Beirut. The 767 goes to Istanbul and Larnaca and there is nothing smaller.
They wouldn't send an A320/A321 configured in short haul when the competion on the route (from MEA) offers wide bodied service and a decent Business class. So it is pointing towards the 767 UNLESS they operate a sub fleet which I don't think they will want to. I also don't think they like these one stop services either, like Khartoum via Beirut, etc.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 39):
But BA flights operating from T1, T3 and T5.

I agree. It completely undermines the creation of T5 thought, as was their wish to have all BA services under one terminal. Not all BD routes will be kept- a lot of them are duplicated now so I think they will be trimmed down and operated with larger aircraft.



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 40):
I have a gut feeling that Beirut will go from twice daily to once daily (the ongoing Khartoum, Adis Ababa and Damascus routes being suspended or given their own non stop service) but will see the return of BA's 767s at Beirut with the new interiors.

BA tried BEY in the past with 767s but that did not last long. I think if the route works well with a long haul configured A321 or A320, then they should continue doing that using ex BD crews to keep the costs down. If they want to use the larger 767s, they would have to train ex BD staff or the mixed fleet on this new type cause I don't think if the route would be viable serviced by the Worldwide Fleet cabin crews.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1421 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 41):

BA tried BEY in the past with 767s but that did not last long. I think if the route works well with a long haul configured A321 or A320, then they should continue doing that using ex BD crews to keep the costs down. If they want to use the larger 767s, they would have to train ex BD staff or the mixed fleet on this new type cause I don't think if the route would be viable serviced by the Worldwide Fleet cabin crews.

Most of the BD crew are going to Eurofleet (not "shorthaul" as management would like you to believe!) so they are not a seperate "cheaper" fleet!
BA are configuring all the former BMI 320series aircraft into a shorthaul configuration so there will be no longhaul product available for this route unless its brought up to at least a 767 and Im sure you are aware the only crew on the 767 are Worldwide fleet or Eurofleet. With TLV and CIA both offering a longhaul product and with similar flight times (and indeed the much shorter Moscow now being operated by Worldwide crew on a longhaul product) it only seems logical that this route will be picked up by the 767 at least.

Now last time BA tried BEY on a 767 it was many many years ago and the country was still recovering from its devestating civil war. I know things have changed dramatically since!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

Quoting tonystan (Reply 42):
BA are configuring all the former BMI 320series aircraft into a shorthaul configuration so there will be no longhaul product available for this route unless its brought up to at least a 767 and Im sure you are aware the only crew on the 767 are Worldwide fleet or Eurofleet.

Where is BA going to find enough 767s to operate those routes? That's except if they switch some the shorthaul 767s to longhaul configuration. May be BA should only refurbish the remaining shorthaul 767s to the new WT and WTPs and use the older WT and WTP configured 767s on these routes.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

Just to echo tonystan's comments, BA last served Beirut with 767s in 1995/6.
When BA last flew to Beirut they also had three operators on the route- MEA operating 747-200s, British Med with a daily 320 and BA with a 767. That was a lot of capacity on the route when tourism was non existent and partly why BA and JK embarked on their codeshare agreement.
Passenger movements during that year totalled 1.6 million. Since then Beirut's new(ish) terminal is nudging its maximum capacity - 6million so a massive increase of demand to the country. The national carrier operates a daily A330 to London offering 250 seats.
Currently BD fly 2 x A321s per day offering 300 seats. Moving to one daily BA 767 actually means that there will be a capacity reduction to 192 passengers per day, so I don't think it will be entirely out of the question.
Even if BA operated a daily 777-200 it would still mean a capacity reduction.

I guess we need to see what happens. I am putting my money on the 767 unless BA operate a subfleet of medium haul 321s



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

Quoting tonystan (Reply 42):
Most of the BD crew are going to Eurofleet (not "shorthaul" as management would like you to believe!) so they are not a seperate "cheaper" fleet!
BA are configuring all the former BMI 320series aircraft into a shorthaul configuration so there will be no longhaul product available for this route unless its brought up to at least a 767 and Im sure you are aware the only crew on the 767 are Worldwide fleet or Eurofleet. With TLV and CIA both offering a longhaul product and with similar flight times (and indeed the much shorter Moscow now being operated by Worldwide crew on a longhaul product) it only seems logical that this route will be picked up by the 767 at least.

Now last time BA tried BEY on a 767 it was many many years ago and the country was still recovering from its devestating civil war. I know things have changed dramatically since!

I personally think the most likely route to stay and be moved to the Worldwide config 767 will be ALA over some of the middle east routes.

The 767 is currently the mid haul ex-BD routes only hope and they are scarce as it is especially with the refurbishment going on I doubt they would want to stretch them any further. QF still have some BA 767s which they may want to dispose of but they were all euro config birds while at BA.


User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 46, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4197 times:

A 767 would suit ALA- isn't it in excess of 7 hours? Quite a stretch for an A321!


Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (2 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4196 times:

It's done on the A330s currently but they are gone in October. Being one of BDs A330 routes I predict it will be safeguarded in BA.

User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1421 posts, RR: 2
Reply 48, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 43):
Where is BA going to find enough 767s to operate those routes? That's except if they switch some the shorthaul 767s to longhaul configuration. May be BA should only refurbish the remaining shorthaul 767s to the new WT and WTPs and use the older WT and WTP configured 767s on these routes.

I personally think that this would be the best option and perhaps its not too late for this to happen. But I suppose its a matter of time and patience before we know anything.

Capacity could be found through a bit of rejigging such as removing 767s from the likes of YYZ, EWR, YUL,DXB etc which could perhaps benefit from a larger aircraft.

The unusual thing about this takeover is that BA gained all these extra longhaul routes and slots but not a single longhaul aircraft (well, apart from the A330s but we already know whats happening there). But we also need to remember that there are new LH aircraft enroute very soon, just enough time for be to obey the "us it or lose it" policy of the slots and maintain some of the current BMI schedules before going to town on them!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1421 posts, RR: 2
Reply 49, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Well BMI have now announced the suspension of the Addis Ababa route as of the 10th June for "commercial reasons"!

Interesting to see if this is a hint of things to come from BA!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 50, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3581 times:

Quoting tonystan (Reply 49):
Interesting to see if this is a hint of things to come from BA!

I suspect the same thing will happen with the tag on routes from Beirut to Khartoum and Damascus..
I wonder if the growth of Ethiopian has made ADD less profitable for BD.

Quoting BA174 (Reply 47):
It's done on the A330s currently but they are gone in October. Being one of BDs A330 routes I predict it will be safeguarded in BA.

Does this service not continue onto India? Could be why it's an A330 route.



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 802 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3570 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 50):
I suspect the same thing will happen with the tag on routes from Beirut to Khartoum and Damascus..

DAM is just about to be suspended because of the political situation so it will be interesting to see if it ever resumes.

I am surprised that Addis has been cancelled yet Khartoum hasn't - if I had been betting I would have expected Khartoum to be axed and Addis to continue. Maybe the lack of competition to Khartoum is the reason.

BA would have to upgrade the flight to compete with ET, which provides a 'proper' long haul service. LHR-ADD with ET was my first ever long haul, and indeed first ever J class flight - we went via FRA and FCO - now they do it direct - ah, happy days.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3536 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 51):
I am surprised that Addis has been cancelled yet Khartoum hasn't - if I had been betting I would have expected Khartoum to be axed and Addis to continue. Maybe the lack of competition to Khartoum is the reason.

Sad to see ADD go. BA needs to strengthen its foothold in Africa but I guess the route was not that profitable.

The route was served via AMM along KRT. BA would have to withdraw from AMM according to the EC directives. So even KRT would need to be served via elsewhere.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3507 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 50):
Does this service not continue onto India? Could be why it's an A330 route.

Amritsar but I don't think the tag is every day. I doubt BA will be interested in the tag flight longer term.

Didn't I read that the first BA crewed ex BD flight on a BA aircraft is supposed to be today?


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 802 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 52):
The route was served via AMM along KRT. BA would have to withdraw from AMM according to the EC directives. So even KRT would need to be served via elsewhere

I had forgotten that particular element of the EU ruling. LHR- BEI seems to do quite well on its own without sharing with ADD or KRT. Maybe LHR- CAI - ADD/KRT would be a good routing given that CAI is a bit short of passengers at the moment.


User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 55, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 54):
Maybe LHR- CAI - ADD/KRT would be a good routing given that CAI is a bit short of passengers at the moment.

I don't think BA will get involved with multistop routes. I think they either want direct or unless they can fill a wide body, they won't operate it at all.
However, BA could still operate a sub fleet of A321s to serve these destinations.. we will have to wait and see.

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 52):
The route was served via AMM along KRT.

True. But I think they were moved onto Beirut a while ago. Khartoum has been an add on from Beirut since 2001 I think, perhaps longer when it was served by BMED.

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 51):
DAM is just about to be suspended because of the political situation so it will be interesting to see if it ever resumes.

Interesting to see what happens. The crew I spoke to were not keen on flying to Damascus because they had to operate both directions although the they had a new flight crew fly back to London. I don't think the situation in Damascus will improve any time soon.. does SyrianAir still operate to London? I know a lot of their services stop in Aleppo or Brussels, sometimes Beirut. It's hard to keep track!

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 54):
LHR- BEI seems to do quite well on its own without sharing with ADD or KRT.

I suspect it will go daily 767 if they have the capacity or if they maintain the mid haul ex BD 321s, they will continue to use those. Someone on here said that the continuing flight to Khartoum had as little as 40 passengers onboard.



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 56, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 40):
It completely undermines the creation of T5 thought, as was their wish to have all BA services under one terminal.

T5 was designed and created as a terminal capable of handling 30 million passengers a year and providing 60 aircraft stands. Construction had started (on a design virtually frozen when the planning application was made in 1993) in 2002. I believe it was in the following 12 months that negotiations between BAA and BA opened. They resulted in an agreement that BA would lease all of the new terminal and be involved in the detailed interior design such as that of the check-in area and the lounges. T5 was never designed to provide BA with a single terminal.

If it had been planned to be a single-airline terminal it would clearly have been a plan doomed to failure. There were 19 years between conception and opening. Anyone accurately forecasting the size of BA's operations for 2008 back in 1989 would deserve more than a prize. And it was a moving target. When T5 opened BA operated weekly slots at LHR. Back in March 2003 BA operated 3,602 LHR weekly slots. By the time T5 opened in 2008 their operations at LHR had expanded by almost 10 per cent to 3,950 weekly slots. At the start of this Summer S|eason they were operating 4,198 slots representing a further growth of a further growth in excess of six per cent. Adding in BD's 461 weekly LHR slots operated at the end oh March and then subtracting 15 daily slot pairs (210 weekly slots), gives a total of approximately 4,650 or a further growth of almost 11 per cent. So if an attempt had been 50 million passengers a year? And would the protracted planning application process have been successful at that level?

I am not sure that BA will be too upset in having their flights spread across three LHR terminals. Back in the days before T5 opened they operated out of T1, T3 and T4. It was repoprted that they had no great desire to consolidate operations into just two terminals (which would have been very possible) as it enabled them to sit on the users committee for the three terminals and keep a close eye on their competitors activities and plans at LHR.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7461 posts, RR: 17
Reply 57, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

On the BA web site it says:

"bmi flights to Agadir, Basel, Bergen, Casablanca, Hanover, Marrakech, Nice, Stavanger and Vienna.

"From the 23 May 2012, all bmi (BD) flights to and from these nine cities have changed to have British Airways (BA) flight numbers, in the range BA 8138 to BA 8165."

The update to this page is dated 22 May and timed at 16:30 BST. As the first of the flights it lists was scheduled to depart ljust 14 hrs and 45 mins after the abover was posted I assume it actually happened.

On the assumption that the aircraft departing LHR early on the morning of 23 May departed approximately on timer
I therefore conclude that the first BA coded flight flown on a BD route by a BD aircraft and crew was:

BA8138: LHR-BSL operated by 319 G-DBCK with a scheduled departure time of 07:15 BST. However it operated using the call sign "BMA161"

The other inaugural flights to the destinations listed above were, on the same basis:

BA8144: LHR-NCE operated by 320 G-MEDK on 23 May. Scheduled departure 08:10 BST. Call sign" BMA193"

BA8152: LHR-SVG operated by 319 G-DBCA (which is usually dedicated to operating the three-times-daily LH TXL-LHR-TXL rotation) on 23 May. Sceduled departure 08:40 BST. Call sign "BMA5KY".

BA8148: LHR-VIE operated by 319 G-DBCF on 23 May. Scheduled departure 10:50 BST. Call sign "BMA427"

BA8164: LHR-RAK operated by 320 G-MIDK on 23 May. Scheduled departure 12:25 BST. Call sign "BMA447"

BA8164: LHR-BGO operated by 319 G-DBCI on 23 May. Scheduled departure 14:20 BST. Call sign "BMA551"

BA8160: LHR-CMN operated by 320 G-MIDY on 24 May. Scheduled departure 12:25 BST. Call sign "BMA441"

BA8162: LHR-AGA operated by ??? G-???? on 26 May. Scheduled departure 10:05 BST. Call sign "BMA445"

Note that the inaugural BA flight to HAJ is not listed above. It was BA8154 with a scheduled departure time of 07:10 BST. I can find no trace of this flight taking place at that time. But it is listed for 23 May at that departure time in the oneworlld on-line timetable. And a little to my surprise it is listed in the timetable as being operated by a bmi Regional EMB145. From other sites I have determined that a LHR-HAJ flight using the call sign "BMA8V7" was operated by bmi Regional EMB145 G-RJXD only an hour or so later. So I am assuming that this was the inaugural BA flight on this route.

I have used a number of web sites to draw the above conclusions. They are:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel...-information-news-hub/public/en_gb

http://thebasource.com/routetracker.html

http://data.flight24.com/

The oneworld on-line timetable

and have assumed none are wrong (except "The BA Source" is interpreting the call signs from each flight as still meaning what they did meanin terms of flight number up until 22 May).

I would welcome any confirmation of my deductions or any corrections if my deductions are wrong.


User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 871 posts, RR: 5
Reply 58, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 57):
I would welcome any confirmation of my deductions or any corrections if my deductions are wrong.

All the BA flights (ex BD) operated as planned from 23 May. They are operating as wet-lease aircraft from bmi and bmi Regional and using BD call signs. As the aircraft change AOC to become BA, then the call sign will also change.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 59, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 52):
BA would have to withdraw from AMM according to the EC directives

IIRC they don't have to withdraw - and from a competition perspective the EU would probably rather they didn't. BA are allowed to serve AMM, but must drop their co-operation with RJ on LHR-AMM if they do



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 60, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 55):
I don't think BA will get involved with multistop routes.

Especially not on narrow bodies. There are better things they can do with their LHR slots.


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