1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5819 posts, RR: 2 Posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2947 times:
As everyone knows, there are plans to demolish T3 at JFK and connect T2 to T4 with a walkway. I think this is a horrible mistake as this will be a pretty long walk for connecting passengers.
So, why not build a people mover train within the secure zone of the airport to connect them? This would allow for much faster connections than having to walk between T2 and T4.
What does anyone here think?
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spinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1002 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2958 times:
I think the cost would just be too much. It's much cheaper to build moving walkways and possibly some more retail space.
That being said, something similiar to what is at DTW would certainly be nice.
goldenstate From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 534 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2941 times:
comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4721 posts, RR: 17 Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting spinkid (Reply 1): think the cost would just be too much. It's much cheaper to build moving walkways and possibly some more retail space.
In my life and times I have seen too many moving walkways that don't move, major culprits being JFK and LHR.
jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2916 posts, RR: 28 Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2647 times:
A train is simply too expensive. The T2/T4 situation is not the long-term story for DL and its partners at JFK. Future construction at T4 and T5 will result in Delta and its codeshare/alliance partners consolidating at T4, while some carriers will move to join B6 at T5, others to T8 with AA, and the rest replacing the carriers that leave T1. T2 will eventually be torn down.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7411 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2537 times:
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 4): A train is simply too expensive. The T2/T4 situation is not the long-term story for DL and its partners at JFK. Future construction at T4 and T5 will result in Delta and its codeshare/alliance partners consolidating at T4, while some carriers will move to join B6 at T5, others to T8 with AA, and the rest replacing the carriers that leave T1. T2 will eventually be torn down.
Other JFK termianls do not have the capacity to absorb what T4 has. AA will soon be bursting at T8 with LAN moving there. A BA addition could be coming to AA too. Something new will eventually be built on the T3 sight and a new T2, it could be an expansion of T1. The terminal 6 sight will be redeveloped too as a JB terminal 5 expansion. BA's soon to be "old" Terminal 7 would be a great sight for Star to have a JFK terminal, even with United at Newark JFK will still have significant Star alliance business.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2517 times:
The whole reasoning behind DL's approach to their JFK facilities redevelopment, expand the existing T4 and keep T2, is to keep their costs down. If DL were to pursue a project with a scope such as AA's T-8 it would dramatically increase their costs at JFK and reducing their competitiveness. DL is not able to acquire enough slots to justify a mega terminal with big price tag, adding such luxuries as a dedicated airside train would again raise their costs.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7411 posts, RR: 7 Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2490 times:
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 4): A train is simply too expensive. The T2/T4 situation is not the long-term story for DL and its partners at JFK. Future construction at T4 and T5 will result in Delta and its codeshare/alliance partners consolidating at T4, while some carriers will move to join B6 at T5, others to T8 with AA, and the rest replacing the carriers that leave T1. T2 will eventually be torn down.
Other JFK termianls do not have the capacity to absorb what T4 has. AA will soon be bursting at T8 with LAN moving there. A BA addition could be coming to AA too. Something new will eventually be built on the T3 sight and a new T2, it could be an expansion of T1. The terminal 6 sight will be redeveloped too as a JB terminal 5 expansion. BA's soon to be "old" Terminal 7 would be a great sight for Star to have a JFK terminal, even with United at Newark JFK will still have significant Star alliance business.
jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2706 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2342 times:
There is a beautiful, billion dollar train right outside security called AirTrain JFK.
Since most people from T4 to T2 are international, to domestic, this is not an issue anyway as they have to reclear security.
What they should do is build an adequate indoor connector from the AirTrain T2 stop to T2.
That said, all of the above is moot because I wouldn't expect T2 to be there 10 years from now.
T4 was phase 1 (and if you are to believe a leaked photo on the DL website that was promptly taken down), DL will eventually extend the eastern concourse of T4 and add an additional regional wing onto the extension they are already building. Then T2 goes bye bye.
jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2916 posts, RR: 28 Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2186 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5): Other JFK termianls do not have the capacity to absorb what T4 has. AA will soon be bursting at T8 with LAN moving there. A BA addition could be coming to AA too. Something new will eventually be built on the T3 sight and a new T2, it could be an expansion of T1. The terminal 6 sight will be redeveloped too as a JB terminal 5 expansion. BA's soon to be "old" Terminal 7 would be a great sight for Star to have a JFK terminal, even with United at Newark JFK will still have significant Star alliance business.
See this...
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
That said, all of the above is moot because I wouldn't expect T2 to be there 10 years from now.
T4 was phase 1 (and if you are to believe a leaked photo on the DL website that was promptly taken down), DL will eventually extend the eastern concourse of T4 and add an additional regional wing onto the extension they are already building. Then T2 goes bye bye.
There will be future development of the T2/T3 area, along with the T6 area and completion of T8. Some of these things will take longer than others. But we are clearly moving towards a period where Delta and its aligned partners will be co-located at T4. I didn't say they'd have exclusive use.
The next two phases of T4 expansion will allow this to happen, so there is no need for an expensive train as the OP suggested.
Here is a relevant article from ATW from March:
Quote: The first phase of the expansion project, expected to be completed by May 2013, will grow Terminal 4 from a 1.5 million-sq.-ft. steel and glass structure with 16 gates to a 2-million-sq.ft. facility with 25 gates, nine of which will be dedicated to Delta. The terminal’s annual capacity will grow to 15 million passengers. “We’ll have more passengers than ever, but fewer airlines, probably about 14 or 15 [once Delta relocates],” Maca said.
JFK IAT is starting to encourage airlines to consider moving to other terminals (although it has never asked any airline to leave), especially if a carrier is in an alliance with an airline operating at one of the airport’s other terminals. “For years, we were knocking on everyone’s door to get [airlines to fly to Terminal 4],” Maca said. “But now we’ve kind of de-marketed.”
Later phases of construction will eventually double Terminal 4’s existing capacity to 20 million passengers by 2020, with Delta using as many as 16 gates. “As we speak, conversation is already underway on what the second and third phases of expansion will look like,”
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7411 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2032 times:
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 9): There will be future development of the T2/T3 area, along with the T6 area and completion of T8. Some of these things will take longer than others. But we are clearly moving towards a period where Delta and its aligned partners will be co-located at T4. I didn't say they'd have exclusive use.
Where are all the curent T4 airlines going to go ? The list ranges from Avianca, Virgin Atlantic, SWISS, Emirates, Arik Air, SAA, Pakistan Air, and a whole who'w who. Terminal 1 has been able to cope with some overflow but T1 has 4 anchor airlines in 3 different alliances. The PANYNJ needs to have a non-aligned terminal, which T4 served as and now T$ is essentially being handed over to Delta. WHY would Air France, who has been at T1 since 1998, move to T4 ? Maybe the answer is in the Terminals 6 & 7 sights. Delta will probably expand toward its old T3 sight wih T1 expanding toward T2 or possibly T3.
jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2916 posts, RR: 28 Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2005 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10): Where are all the curent T4 airlines going to go ? The list ranges from Avianca, Virgin Atlantic, SWISS, Emirates, Arik Air, SAA, Pakistan Air, and a whole who'w who. Terminal 1 has been able to cope with some overflow but T1 has 4 anchor airlines in 3 different alliances. The PANYNJ needs to have a non-aligned terminal, which T4 served as and now T$ is essentially being handed over to Delta. WHY would Air France, who has been at T1 since 1998, move to T4 ? Maybe the answer is in the Terminals 6 & 7 sights. Delta will probably expand toward its old T3 sight wih T1 expanding toward T2 or possibly T3.
Air France, Korean, Alitalia will all move to T4 when the time is right. Trust me.
And again, when the other T4 pier is expanded, the facility will be able to hold Delta's partners as well as several other of the carriers you mention above. It is never going to be a SkyTeam-exclusive facility. But all the SkyTeam carrier will likely be there at some point in the next few years.
I do agree that there is the potential that T4 will be further expanded into the T3/T2 area to accommodate some growth,
contrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1979 times:
Quoting comorin (Reply 3): In my life and times I have seen too many moving walkways that don't move, major culprits being JFK and LHR.
T5 at JFK is a prime example of this and I have the pleasure of dealing with it everyday. We always joke that the guys that work on the walkways and escalators will have ample job security and their grandchildren will be working on the same walkways and escalators.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7411 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1691 times:
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 11): Air France, Korean, Alitalia will all move to T4 when the time is right. Trust me.
With AA having T8 I don't see terminal 1 as a OW terminal, JAL will porbably move to T8. T1 could become a Star alliance terminal with LH as the anchor and the rest of the Star JFK operators.
peanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1312 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1671 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter): I think this is a horrible mistake as this will be a pretty long walk for connecting passengers.
The DL terminal situation at this time could be considered "transitional". Many things are going on right now and the outcome of different scenarios (including alliance consolidation) are not a certain thing. The situation is simply put "too fluid" right now for an expensive (and temporary) train.
Anyone with a brain can see that an " aircraft parking lot" in place of T3 is not a permanent solution knowing how valuable JFK real estate can be.
There is more to come, hence the awkward looking people connector. Too soon to think train at this time.
BTW: Walked (ran) from T3 to T2 last week for a short connection. These terminals have something so nostalgic yet disgusting about it. Mixed feelings. You feel you're alive somehow, sensing the history behind it. It's also quite a dump though. Lol...
[Edited 2012-05-12 08:21:03]
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8316 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1663 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7): AA will soon be bursting at T8 with LAN moving there.
Not really; LAN operates 3 daily flights into JFK. LAN Perú will launch LIM-JFK 4x weekly in November, so that's 25 weekly flights at JFK. LAN has already taken over some of AA's counters at JFK
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13): With AA having T8 I don't see terminal 1 as a OW terminal, JAL will porbably move to T8.
Also, TAM will most likely join LAN at T8 later on.
CompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 870 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1281 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
As everyone knows, there are plans to demolish T3 at JFK and connect T2 to T4 with a walkway. I think this is a horrible mistake as this will be a pretty long walk for connecting passengers.
So, why not build a people mover train within the secure zone of the airport to connect them? This would allow for much faster connections than having to walk between T2 and T4.
What does anyone here think?
Since everybody's merely transitioning between T2 and T4, they could install one, very, very, long moving walkway. Why not put up podiums with Panasonic's Fusion PTV system that follow passengers the length of the walkway? Or better yet, model it after a Disney World ride and add seats with integrated PTVs to the moving walkways. They could have Ricardo's slimline as standard seating, and offer Thomson's Vantage for a small fee (or DL/SkyTeam Medallion members).
If those ideas prove too expensive, why not offer some complimentary entertainment? They could pluck the silver man, the tin man, the schizophrenic man, etc. off the streets of NYC and have them perform in the area housing the walkway.
blink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5431 posts, RR: 19 Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1125 times:
Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 16):
If those ideas prove too expensive, why not offer some complimentary entertainment? They could pluck the silver man, the tin man, the schizophrenic man, etc. off the streets of NYC and have them perform in the area housing the walkway.
LOL. Straight out of Times Square.
I think a few secure buses could greatly expedite the connecting experience, could they not? Saves construction costs on some really really long bridges and removes the worry about travelators malfunctioning. Given how packed NY buses can be sometimes, it may feel typically NY just as much as the silver, tin, schizophrenic, and random yeller on NYC streets.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
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