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SK To Buy 60+ New Aircraft For 40 - 45 Billion NOK  
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3943 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17546 times:

* SK to buy almost 70 new aircraft for 40 - 45 million NOK over the next 7 years.

* Longhaul equipment to be replaced

* Short and medium distance equipment will be a mix of the newest Boeing 737's and Airbus 320's

* All MD 80's series aircraft will be replaced and the 10 oldest B737's

* Replacement of longhaul equipment will also commence. Todays longhaul equipment will be replaced by 2 aircraft pr. year, starting with delivery from 2014. Either Airbus A330, A350 or Boeing 787 - 10


http://www.aftenposten.no/okonomi/in...for-40--45-milliarder-6826233.html

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17400 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
All MD 80's series aircraft will be replaced and the 10 oldest B737's

Bet they already got a phone call from G4 on this.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17332 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
SK to buy almost 70 new aircraft for 40 - 45 million NOK over the next 7 years.

Clearly you mean 40 - 45 BILLION.
 


User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17293 times:

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Todays longhaul equipment will be replaced by 2 aircraft pr. year, starting with delivery from 2014. Either Airbus A330, A350 or Boeing 787 - 10


That pretty much guarantees at least part of the order will be A330s, does it not?



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17198 times:

Presumably we can expect SK's A320neo order to be increased?

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 3):
That pretty much guarantees at least part of the order will be A330s, does it not?

If they want new aircraft from 2014, they'll have to take more A330s, but I tend to believe - despite the reference to 2014, that they'll hold on for 787-10s; mind you, they could probably get 789s from a lessor for delivery in 2014?


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17199 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 3):

Sounds as though. Based on the current A330 backlog it's anybody's guess when. If they go the route of the A350, I wonder which variant they would choose?


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3394 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16537 times:

Guys, you need to be more critical when looking at these type of news. A lot of them are just PR from the airline to show that they are aggressive regarding their future plans. This article barely contains any news excapt that SAS plans* to start getting some new long planes in 2014

Just by counting their A320neo order and the order for 12 used 737-700 (2 allready delivered) and 9 new 737-800 (1 delivered) and between 10 and 20 A320 on leases as MD and 737CL replacement, we allready are talking about 60 aircrafts. SAS isn't saying anything about new orders.....

*Bare in mind that when the reality shows up the first that goes out the window is the plan. And a plan isn't "proper" before it is changes at least one time  


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16482 times:

Here is another report and a google translate:
http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/05/11/n...erdsel/industri/reiseliv/21537999/

***
SAS is the next six or seven years to regenerate most of the fleet. Together, SAS will buy nearly 70 new planes for up to 45 billion.

- In addition to long-haul fleet, which currently consists of 11 Airbus A330 and Airbus A340, renewed in the coming years, said CEO Eivind Roald sales and marketing at SAS headquarters in London, Heathrow to Stavanger Aftenblad.

In the short-and medium-SAS will have a mix of the latest Boeing 737 aircraft and Airbus A320.

With 60 newcomers will be the replacement as large as the current fleet of Norwegian rival, Roald says President. The replacement will be a long process that will continue for several years until the end of this decade.

The new aircraft will replace all of the 26 older MD-80 SAS-owned and the ten oldest Boeing 737 that came along for the ride as SAS Braathens bought ten years ago.

Also the replacement of long-haul fleet will continue later with the two aircraft annually. The first aircraft replaced in 2014 and is followed by two more the following year. Relevant here is the new Airbus A330, A350 or Boeing 787 - the new 10 version with room for 315 passengers.

Total SAS should expect to pay between 40 and 45 billion for the new aircraft, type Stavanger Aftenblad.
***

Quoting kaitak (Reply 4):
If they want new aircraft from 2014, they'll have to take more A330s, but I tend to believe - despite the reference to 2014, that they'll hold on for 787-10s

The article might not be so accurate but this is to be done in the next 7 years.
Will the B787-10 be available in 2019? Even thought a lessor?
I think even the B787-9 will be hard to get within that time schedule.


User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16185 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 4):
If they want new aircraft from 2014, they'll have to take more A330s, but I tend to believe - despite the reference to 2014, that they'll hold on for 787-10s; mind you, they could probably get 789s from a lessor for delivery in 2014?

I think that that's extremly unlikely as the first 789 is supposed to to ANZ in 2014 so I'm sure that none will be available via lessors in that timeframe.

I can't remember, have they firmed their neo order yet?


User currently offlineExtra300 From Sweden, joined Sep 2011, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 16111 times:

SK will probably phase out the 343 like most airlines these days. My guess goes to 333hgw as a short term replacement for the 343, and 350 or 787 for long term replacement.

Does the 333HGW have the legs for all SK routes?

For single aisle I guess SK just sticks to the plan of making CPH all A320. ARN and OSL all 737. Maybe still combined with CRJ?


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15996 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 9):
I can't remember, have they firmed their neo order yet?

They have!
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...30-airbus-a320neo-family-aircraft/

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 10):
My guess goes to 333hgw as a short term replacement for the 343

I agree!


User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1009 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 15953 times:

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 10):
SK will probably phase out the 343 like most airlines these days. My guess goes to 333hgw as a short term replacement for the 343, and 350 or 787 for long term replacement.

Does the 333HGW have the legs for all SK routes?

For single aisle I guess SK just sticks to the plan of making CPH all A320. ARN and OSL all 737. Maybe still combined with CRJ?

AFAIK the newest of the 330 options is an even more improved version - the 330IGW, which has the range even for CPH-NRT. I don't know much about operations, but in the longer run, I assume it would probably be operationally simpler if all their long-haul aircraft could fly all legs. With the current mix of a330 and 340 they don't have the flexibility to change equipment in case of disruptions and I suppose that can be a costly affair.



Future flights: CPH-BKK-MNL; MNL-GUM-TKK-PNI-KSA-KWA-MAJ-HNL-LAX
User currently offlinekevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15646 times:

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 10):
For single aisle I guess SK just sticks to the plan of making CPH all A320. ARN and OSL all 737. Maybe still combined with CRJ?

I think they would still go for some CRJ's (at least now that they've got a whole bunch of them brand-new..). But far from all SK's routes are viable with 737 or 320. By sticking to a smaller a/c size as well as 737s and 320s, they can serve places that are less prone to competition from DY and others that only have mid-size a/c. With the frequency that SK would like to offer on their routes, also to cater for connections, smaller a/c are also needed. E.g. many of SK's routes to Eastern Europe, that have all right frequencies with smaller a/c.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 12):
AFAIK the newest of the 330 options is an even more improved version - the 330IGW, which has the range even for CPH-NRT. I don't know much about operations, but in the longer run, I assume it would probably be operationally simpler if all their long-haul aircraft could fly all legs. With the current mix of a330 and 340 they don't have the flexibility to change equipment in case of disruptions and I suppose that can be a costly affair.

I also agree with you (and others above) that if they want something new in 2014 it will be a 330, and they would want to replace their 340's, just like for instance VS is doing now (on a much larger scale of course). Problem with the current mix as I see it is, that they actually often have the flexibility to change a/c on their long-haul routes - e.g. put in a 340 across the Atlantic. However, even if it is possible, it's not too sound economically in the long run. Back a year ago they sent 340's to Dubai, not even a 6-hour flight. The 330's are rarely to spare, they only have 4 and they are busy on the Atlantic year-round. The 340's on the contrary are more often "available", and are then used for instance across the Atlantic where they are not optimal (although they have a higher J-config which might do well across the Atlantic sometimes)


Kevin777  



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15562 times:

In my experience, all told, SAS is still the very best airline found in N-Europe - in particular for those who need to travel a lot or need connecting flights or want a consistent and proper experience.

So naturally I'm very pleased that SAS isn't giving up any time soon, they are one of the finest airlines in the world - and sorry to say it for a certain group of people here - but it is largely because of the SAS unions.

They ensure a standard.

asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlinekevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15404 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
In my experience, all told, SAS is still the very best airline found in N-Europe - in particular for those who need to travel a lot or need connecting flights or want a consistent and proper experience

Agree.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
So naturally I'm very pleased that SAS isn't giving up any time soon, they are one of the finest airlines in the world -

Agree.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 14):
but it is largely because of the SAS unions.

They ensure a standard.

The SAS employess ensure a standard, not the unions.

/Kevin777



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15391 times:

SAS unions are a part of the red ink, and being a taxpayer I think I have the right to be negative about them. Its not that long ago the 3 governments had to pony up taxpayers money to recapitalize SAS.

Maybe its great for you that wont have to pay for SAS.


User currently offlineg2scandinavia From Norway, joined Jun 2010, 535 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15187 times:

How are they planning to finance this?

From what I have heard from several sources, SAS forwarded a formal request to the largest owners in april to secure more cash to the company. Several journalists holds a copy of this letter (or such) and have confronted the ministry regarding SAS’s request. The ministry of trade in Norway have from what I have heard, confirmed that they have got this request but refuses to discuss the details with the press as its confidential. They have however confirmed that the request from SAS has been rejected by all the 3 Scandinavian governments. This is probably the reason for why the Norwegian minister of trade and industry issued a very sudden statement about further cash injection to SAS last week. They were surprised that it was known to several journalists and forwarded the statement.

If its true, it must be a very bad keept secret as it seems to be known by quite many people already!


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3069 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14836 times:

Quoting kevin777 (Reply 13):
I think they would still go for some CRJ's (at least now that they've got a whole bunch of them brand-new..). But far from all SK's routes are viable with 737 or 320.

I believe CRJ's (particularly CRJ-1000) could be the right aircraft to replace the 737-600's, and possibly with a mix of A320's and 737's be the aircraft to replace the MD-80's (half of the MD's get replaced by the larger A320/737, half by the smaller CRJ-1000). However, I don't think this will happen, as I simply don't think sas wants to be seen operating what the public see as regional jets on routes that currently have MD's and 736's (which both operate routes the public don't see as regional).

I personally think SK will get the A350-900, and should (but don't think), they should get some A350-800's. They might also get some A330's, as they'll be ready earlier, and are still very efficient aircraft. I don't think they'll get 787's, nor do I think it would be wise to get both 787s and A350's, as the fleets really won't be big enough (and they are roughly the same size, especially when SK is not looking at 787-8's). But knowing SK, I wouldn't be completely shocked to see orders for both.

All this is just my gut feeling, there is no knowing what SK management will do.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinedeltamartin From Sweden, joined Dec 2010, 1061 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14741 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 18):
I believe CRJ's (particularly CRJ-1000) could be the right aircraft to replace the 737-600's, and possibly with a mix of A320's and 737's be the aircraft to replace the MD-80's (half of the MD's get replaced by the larger A320/737, half by the smaller CRJ-1000). However, I don't think this will happen, as I simply don't think sas wants to be seen operating what the public see as regional jets on routes that currently have MD's and 736's (which both operate routes the public don't see as regional).

I think there's a decent chance we might see SAS order the CRJ-1000.
Major European Airline Looks At CRJ1000 (by CRJ900X Apr 26 2012 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3069 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13776 times:

Quoting deltamartin (Reply 19):
I think there's a decent chance we might see SAS order the CRJ-1000.

Some for expansion maybe, but although I would like to seem them replace 737-600's (and when I say replace, I mean actually see them on routes where the 736 fly, such as domestic Norway and Sweden, and some international routes that see the 736, like OSL/ARN-LHR). For the routes, I don't think SK wants to be portrayed as using regional jets. I can just imagine DY advertising that they use full size planes, while SK use cramped regionals. Although the 736 might not be any bigger, for the average flyer, they look no different from other 737's.

Although I would love to be wrong.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinewindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10445 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 13):
In my experience, all told, SAS is still the very best airline found in N-Europe - in particular for those who need to travel a lot or need connecting flights or want a consistent and proper experience.

I disagree completely, have you flown them recently?

B787-10 oh yes! This could work!

Otherwise I seeing SAS go belly-up  

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10073 times:

I wonder if 788 is too small and long range for SAS, playing it cool and waiting for some of the orders to be cancelled or sold, like AIs 788s. AI needs cash and SAS wants slots.. I don't know how SAS likes GE engines though.

240 seats maybe a bit low? Could you make it up with cargo?


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3394 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9703 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 21):

I wonder if 788 is too small and long range for SAS, playing it cool and waiting for some of the orders to be cancelled or sold, like AIs 788s. AI needs cash and SAS wants slots.. I don't know how SAS likes GE engines though.

240 seats maybe a bit low? Could you make it up with cargo?


Think you need to get the facts right

Ai India don't need cash, as they just got a capital injections from the government of India

A 787-8 in SAS intercontinental configuration will seat nowhere near 240


User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5701 times:

Not that it would happen, but can you imagine how sexy a 777 would look in the SK colours? Not that the 787 or A330 don't look good in almost any livery.


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3069 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5371 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 21):
I don't know how SAS likes GE engines though.

I thought engines were easily interchangable on the 787's (with some modification to the pylon).

But, I don't think AI are interested in losing those slots (and if they were, SK would see some competition for them, maybe even against DY)

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
25 Mortyman : SAS considered buying 777's back in the days, but decided on Airbus A330's and Airbbus A 340's instead.
26 SASMD82 : A 789/7810 fleet would make sense although the A359 with the A333 IGW would also be feasible. A shame to see the MD's going. Hopefully we will see man
27 sweair : SAS being late to the party, what slots are there for 787s and 350s? Or will the lease form someone with earlier slots? The only plane with earlier sl
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