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DL And AA? An Interesting Article  
User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 149 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 16023 times:

First off, this is more speculation than anything because at this point it seems most likely that American and US Airways will merge. I've read the DL Interested In Acquiring AMR? threads and didn't really think much of it. I was reading some industry articles online and found an interesting piece: IAG eyes luring Delta into Oneworld pact which was written in just back in March.

I just wanted peoples take on this. It seemed like IAG was looking to put money into AMR if they could team up with another airline to do it and it's interesting that they (possibly) thought of DL as the carrier to do it with. I initially never even thought a DL/AA merger would get past the DOJ but if you think about it:

-There would certainly be overlap in the NYC market but even if the new airline surrendered slots they could still be a powerhouse in the NYC market
-The new airline would have the southwest/lower midwest covered with AA's hub in DFW
-The new airline would have the southeast covered with DL's hub in ATL
-Merging operations in LAX create a much stronger/viable hub
-South America covered by MIA and a NRT hub for Asia
-They only issue would be the MSP/ORD/DTW situation
-DL/AA have a relatively complementary fleet

Anyway the article was thought provoking...what do you think of it? A legitimate idea or more of a fluff piece?

-BDL757

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6214 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15947 times:

If DL makes a move for AA it would be to dismantle the carrier, MIA is what they would be attracted to the most. If they were to go for the airline as whole this would make for too big of an operation most prob resulting in a heck of alot of AA people being sacked, let's not mention this making it through the DOJ. You would see the outrage from half of Texas as the airline would definitely move everything from centreport to the ATL. Yeah, I'm sure AA employees really want DL to take them over.

[Edited 2012-05-12 01:44:13]


Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offline5MillionMiler From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15894 times:

I don't think the regulators would ever allow that -- both two big to merge. US would work. Hope AA survives in OneWorld, and if US joins the party moves to OW and DFW should be HQ.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15808 times:

Impossible too large for federal approval. US would have to take dfw and ord and Delta would be forced to give up some lga/jfk euro peak timed slots at a minimum or something like that. I doubt the three way can happen, I still think it's rough but us and AA is probably more likely and has momentum right now.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15690 times:

I don't think a merger of AA with anyone is good for the traveling public. An AA/US merger would be a disaster. US hasn't even settled all the union issues, yet, with their merger with HP. A DL/AA merger would just be to big of an airline, initially with about 1200+ airplanes, although the MD-82/-83/-88s would all be gone before to long, as would the older B-757s and B-762s. The B-787 MOU, A-32X order, A-32X-NEO order, and B-737MAX order may all get canceled. But DL would increase the B-77W order.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 15566 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
Yeah, I'm sure AA employees really want DL to take them over.

bet they wouldn't have three pilot groups.   

seeing that they have already made agreements with US, and they are facing large lay-offs anyways, i'd bet if the Delta management team promised to stay they green light Delta too.



yep.
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 961 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 15452 times:

I actually think an AA/DL merger would do nothing but help the combined entity. Having both ATL and DFW would be huge. Every city where DL lacks strength (DFW/LAX/ORD/MIA) is big in the AA network. There would be less competition between LGA and ORD/ATL/DFW, less competition on Transcontinental routes, less competition on JFK-LHR and BOS-LHR, a Latin America powerhouse, a one-carrier deal with AS....I could go on and on. The benefits of such a combination would be absolutely worth the complexities. Even the international aspect is terrific. A tie-up with JL in lieu of KE would be much more complementary to DL's presence in NRT. DL still maintains plenty of capacity to MAD/BCN, which would be perfect for a tie-up with IAG, in addition to all the LHR flying. This is the "next generation" merger in my book and far surpasses a tie-up with US.

User currently offline5MillionMiler From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14802 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 6):
This is the "next generation" merger in my book and far surpasses a tie-up with US.

Yes it would be a mega merger and create a massive powerhouse in terms of market coverage and reach, but the government would likely never allow it


User currently offlinerwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14583 times:

The AA workforce combined with the pro-union PMNW crowd....Delta would become a union airline. Yuck!


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4056 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13293 times:

Such a merger would effectively destroy US and make UA a clear underdog as well. The network would be unparalleled both domestically and internationally, overall, although UA would still be ahead in Asia/Pacific.

That said, no chance it would be approved by the government so it's a moot point.


User currently offlinebos2laf From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12728 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
An AA/US merger would be a disaster. US hasn't even settled all the union issues, yet, with their merger with HP.

But here's the beauty of it... I recall reading somewhere that US/AA would likely propose a direct DOH integration for seniority, which is exactly what the PMUS pilots are feuding with the PMHP pilots over. Basically what the PMHP pilots are pushing for is an adjusted DOH integration, which would royally screw over some very senior US pilots.

When you consider the AA and US pilot groups, they're largely similar in terms of the range of seniority, so a direct DOH integration would likely not ruffle too many feathers....

Except the former HP pilots, who would now be in the minority. If a proposal for direct DOH integration were put to a vote, it would likely pass, and they'd all now be on one contract.

It may sound strange, but this merger may be precisely what US needs to get its pilots on one contract.


User currently offlineusairways787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12708 times:

[quote=rwy04LGA,reply=8]The AA workforce combined with the pro-union PMNW crowd....Delta would become a union airline. Yuck!

One thing you may fail to realize, it isn't just about you, it's about all of us. It will happen eventually, you know it
and DL knows it. It's just a matter of time.



"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12517 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 6):
This is the "next generation" merger in my book and far surpasses a tie-up with US.

There is nothing new or particularly advanced about monopolies.


User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12408 times:

DL could do what it did to PA: buy routes. DL could take over MIA and all the South America routes. It doesn't need any more European or Asian routes.

User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12111 times:

AA can merge with US/HP, and that combined mess can then take a trip to Bankruptcy Court too. Then UA and DL can split up the spoils. Bye Bye CLT, IAH, CLE, MEM, CVG(I know, it's almost gone).
Seriously, the merger route with US is a mess, and a merger right now with DL would not be approved. Three legacy carriers are not too many, but if an AA/US combine are to succeed, their labor problems must be solved.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10387 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11988 times:

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 11):
[quote=rwy04LGA,reply=8]The AA workforce combined with the pro-union PMNW crowd....Delta would become a union airline. Yuck!

One thing you may fail to realize, it isn't just about you, it's about all of us. It will happen eventually, you know it
and DL knows it. It's just a matter of time.

Seems they've survived without unions (for the most part) for over 80 years........people have been saying "it's just a matter of time" since I hired on in '71 and I'm sure before that. See any unions on the property, yet?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineusairways787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11380 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):

At the moment I've seen and heard things brewing. Also don't forget there are still a lot of NW people within the company, which adds fuel to the fire.



"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10387 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11302 times:

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 16):
Also don't forget there are still a lot of NW people within the company, which adds fuel to the fire.

Adding fuel to a fire that didn't need to be lit.  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6214 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10149 times:

Quoting milesrich (Reply 14):
AA can merge with US/HP, and that combined mess can then take a trip to Bankruptcy Court too. Then UA and DL can split up the spoils. Bye Bye CLT, IAH, CLE, MEM, CVG(I know, it's almost gone).
Seriously, the merger route with US is a mess, and a merger right now with DL would not be approved. Three legacy carriers are not too many, but if an AA/US combine are to succeed, their labor problems must be solved.

I dont know what you are drinking but at the moment both IAH and CLT are thriving hubs. IAH is not going anywere anytime soon under UA and neither is CLT for US. If AA were to be broken up as you predict I highly doubt UA would dump IAH.

Regards,

Chepos

[Edited 2012-05-12 15:29:50]

[Edited 2012-05-12 15:30:33]


Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8848 times:

IMO its unlikely, but it certainly is an interesting what if. DOJ would almost certainly force some divestitures. My thoughts:

JFK - Sell T8 and a number of AA's peak hour slots. Maybe VX wants to buy it (they seem to be able to raise money endlessly. Perhaps give the Virgin-branded airlines a reason to form a formal alliance and transfer traffic over JFK? WN may also be interested to build up the caribbean network coming with FL. B6 may give them a run for their money though.

ORD - Not slot controlled, but gate space is the issue. DL would gladly give up a sizeable amount of gates in order to create a major focus city at ORD. They could focus on the top O&D markets and not worry about worry about connecting traffic to small midwestern markets. ORD would benefit from enabling new entrants into the market. However, a number of current AA spokes would lose service (think TOL), or give UA a monopoly (think CWA), driving up fares.

LAX - Sell off T4. Again, maybe VX wants it to build their natural alliance with other Virgin carriers.

DFW - Everything old is new again. DL winds up with the DFW hub they wanted 25 years ago. But does it come at SLC's expense?

Eagle - Merge whats left of Comair into it, give it a new contract full of performance bonuses and spin it off.

In all reality, a DL acquisition of parts of AA may do more to create competition. A US/AA will almost certainly inhibit it.


User currently offlinerwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8429 times:

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 11):
One thing you may fail to realize, it isn't just about you, it's about all of us.

...and all of 'us' isn't the union. Most of 'us' are the CURRENT majority that don't want a union. Were DL to acquire AA, the scale would tip to the union. It's about me and the rest of the majority (us) trying to keep Delta out of grief.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineJFKPurser From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 486 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7631 times:

So many "experts" here who just do not know what they are talking about.

User currently offlineih8b6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 208 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7532 times:

Oh my gosh. Are we really going to start all this crap AGAIN! Gee whiz!

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 16):
At the moment I've seen and heard things brewing.

Sure you have.

That reminds me - one time I was standing on a ramp in a city in the mid 90s I worked in with 4 guys: 3 that had been around a long time, me with 6 years with the company, and a guy that was a new hire. No one new I had 6 years, they thought I was new hire because I had just transferred to the ramp and my "colors" made it look like I was new. I was handed a union card. The NEW HIRE said "yeah you better sign it. THEY just keep taking and taking stuff away from us". Ha! LOL, what a little joker idiot this kid was, he had no freaking idea what he was talking about. Poor kid. So yeah, I bet you've heard things brewing - in the same way this new hire had things taken away from him.

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
Adding fuel to a fire that didn't need to be lit.

So very very true.  



Over-moderation sucks
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7456 times:

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 13):

No they can't unless AA put routes up for sale. PA intentionally put their European markets up for sale. Unless AA does the same (which they won't), DL cannot buy them.


User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7361 times:

While I don't think anything between AA/DL is likely I just thought it was interesting that BA would consider teaming up with DL when US management has been quite vocal about their wanting a merger with AA...wouldn't BA want to team up with US?

Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
If DL makes a move for AA it would be to dismantle the carrier,
Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
the airline would definitely move everything from centreport to the ATL.

Actually, I don't think the carrier would be dismantled as the route networks in most cases are quite complimentary. When I read the original 'DL interested in AMR' thread I actually thought the American/AAdvantage names would stay.

Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
Yeah, I'm sure AA employees really want DL to take them over.

I'm sure no employee ever wants their airlline to be taken over, but alas people like me at the bottom of the food chain have no say in the matter!  


25 Max Q : I can't believe how many of you are counting AA out completely. They may have stumbled, but they will be back, perhaps with a US merger. But there won
26 ghifty : They can finally bring back the Deltaflot iivery!
27 Beardown91737 : The same government that let banks that were too big to fail combine into banks way to big to fail just might approve it. Delta was in DFW once, and w
28 usdcaguy : I believe BA was speaking hypothetically and would prefer to have a US partner than not have one. Given its strength in NYC, I believe DL would be a
29 OOer : This is perhaps one thing I just don't understand of so many Delta employees. They treat "Delta" the corporation as a superior entity. Willing to do
30 DeltaMD90 : You know, I really used to want DL+AA... I only saw it as a fantasy but really wanted it. As "cool" as it would be to see DL and AA get together, I ho
31 Flighty : Delta employees have an okay quality of life. I think your remark shows displeasure that people want the company to do well. That is ridiculous. Delt
32 OOer : An "okay" quality of life is probably a good description for most (not those with under 5-6 years with the company). But is "okay" acceptable with th
33 alitalia744 : Many industries start their entry-level employees off with a salary under $35,000/year in New York City. It's doable. I did it.
34 toltommy : Source? Since you claim that DL employees have a below average compensation package, you must know what the package is. Since you know what it is, pl
35 YYZAMS : Having worked at Delta in DFW I think it would be great just to see Delta take over DFW or at least have a huge operation like it did in the 80s -2001
36 mayor : Well, that settles it.........I guess that YOU are smarter and know more than half the employees that work at DL. That's all I can get out of this st
37 SESGDL : I completely fail to understand how anyone who's an aviation enthusiast could possibly be in favor of any of the mergers that have taken place or cou
38 Post contains links OOer : Starting wage for cabin crew working average hours (80 per month) is roughly $21,000 per year. I agree that $35,000 per year is doable in NYC but Del
39 sancho99504 : Sir, I work upwards of 70 hours week and bring in $3600/mo àvg after tax. If I were bringing in the same working 21.25 hours per week, I can still h
40 OOer : Just because crew members get paid for 85 hours a month does not mean they worked 85 hours in a month. 85 hours per month for a crewmember is the equ
41 Post contains images rwy04LGA : For some , the pay/travel benefits package at Delta is good enough. If it's not good enough for others, you'll find that transit authorities also have
42 Post contains images mayor : And quite a bit more than unemployment. [Edited 2012-05-14 10:43:44]
43 OOer : Yes of course it's always good enough for some. Especially in this economy you'll easily find someone to do your job for less than what you do it for
44 rwy04LGA : I do, all the time. However, all of my coworkers treat me nicely.
45 mayor : I guess it's a generational thing. Back in my day, you did the best job that you could, no matter how much you were paid.
46 goldenstate : Everybody would pick the 2nd choice and nobody is suggesting they should not. In 2011, Delta paid out approximately $330M in profit sharing and rewar
47 tommy767 : It would be nice to see DL back at DFW. This situation would never happen though. Just wait until Dougie takes over AA.
48 OOer : They already have a contract, all AirTran flight attendants will be covered by the Southwest contract. The transition process begins in a couple of w
49 Post contains images DeltaL1011man : 7.50 an hour is better than being jobless. Would you have been happy with that when you worked at Delta? You would have had a job, and thats the only
50 CoachClass : just like aa playing Reminiscent of what AA did to Braniff at DFW! Deregulation was suppose to encourage competition, but in the airline industry all
51 DeltaL1011man : Yes they should force the airlines to operate at a loss.
52 Post contains images HPRamper : Totally agree. I hope the government comes to their senses and realizes that over a hundred thousand more jobless employees is what the economy reall
53 DeltaL1011man : I think that if Delta/American wanted to merge they should let it happen. (and if that were to happen and US/UA wanted to get together then let them)
54 cokepopper : I guess the mods are on holiday. All this union regurgation is tiresome.
55 OOer : What's wrong? Can't dispute the facts?
56 goldenstate : To my understanding they don't fly under the Southwest contract until they complete merger training. So it will be awhile until most see any benefit
57 sancho99504 : OK, I started out making 24 cents a mile, i was taking home about $340 a week my first 6 months on the job before I got a raise to 30 cents a mile. I
58 mayor : No, most of us "back in the day" had a positive attitude, when we started with DL........BTW, we NEVER got profit sharing "back in the day"........ye
59 OOer : The integration begins next month. That's when the first classes begin. No need to negotiate any contract. The list was from all of Delta's memo's wh
60 mayor : Yeah, and I EARNED every damn penny. I get a little tired of someone with 2-3 years complaining because they don't have a pension, when, more than li
61 OOer : Your career at Delta consisted of wages 40% higher then they are now and a full pension. So yes it's hard for some of us still at Delta to sit back a
62 Post contains images usdcaguy : So, basically, you expect people to stick around when they can barely make ends meet? What exactly did you do that others aren't doing now that earne
63 delta2ual : Seriously-give it a rest! It's completely OFF TOPIC.
64 Post contains images mayor : I agree. I hate getting in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
65 DeltaL1011man : No bull s**t I can complain now. You had an overall better QOL of life and a more than happy to tell the ones that are taking it in the shorts to shu
66 OOer : You can really tell when you make a point that the other side can't refute. The sad part is that I haven't been here "2-3 years" as someone else post
67 OOer : Btw: ALPA at Delta has just reached a Tentative Agreement with the company. This was done after 45 days of negotiations and 7 months before the amenda
68 bobnwa : That retired employee worked many long years to earn that pension. You have worked how long for Delta a company you stated in the past you would neve
69 OOer : So you're saying that if I work for Delta for as many years as Mayor did then I will also have a full pension? He didn't say it directly, but it's pr
70 mayor : I guess it depends on WHICH kool-aid you've been drinking......the company's or the unions'
71 DeltaL1011man : what union? Who said anything about a union? Maybe some of us hope that Delta will be Delta of old and can give back what they took without a union.
72 dtw9 : Is it Mayor's fault that he was fortunate enough to have worked at a time when many corporations had generous pension programs for their employees? T
73 srbmod : Since some of you as usual wish to hijack the discussion into issues that are OFF TOPIC with the thread, this thread is now locked since the amount of
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