IllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12484 times:
"I was shocked," said Shenkenberg, an attorney who commutes each week to his job at a Detroit money management firm. "I thought, 'This place is going to be a ghost town.' "
Fares are up and destinations are down at the airport, which like many others has been pinched by recession-driven capacity cutbacks, airline consolidation, high fuel prices and the industry's continuing financial struggles.
Mitchell, however, has been hit particularly hard because of the mix of airlines here - and because along with the problems besetting the industry generally, Milwaukee has suffered from the erosion of its once-advantageous hub status.
In its latest round of service-slashing that began last year, Frontier said in late April that it will cut 11 more flights out of Mitchell and furlough another 125 employees. With the airline dropping the only service to Pittsburgh; Nashville; Indianapolis; Omaha, Neb.; and Columbus, Ohio, in June, Milwaukeeans will have seen their array of available nonstop destinations shrink by a third in little more than a year."
Excuse me, but this is getting to be old news. How about doing a story on what's going on with Tim Hoeksema these days? It still comes down to his mismanagement and greed - no matter how you cut it. He sold out his employees. Period. I have no love for Hoeksema, but let's not forget about the private-equity firm, TPG, that bought and gutted YX. TPG (like Romney's Bain Capital) exists to do these hatchet jobs. Scott Walker, as County Executive during this time, oversaw operation of MKE. Where were the F9 gate lease concessions tied to commitments to local labor? Walker didn't lift a finger as 1,500 skilled Midwest jobs left the state. Last week Walker did a photo-op at Spancrete to celebrate 30 new jobs, while the last 130 Milwaukee-based F9 employees walked out of Mitchell for the last time, and onto the state's unemployment rolls. Airports define cities, and the decline of service at MKE and the dismantling of the YX/F9 hub move the city to the minor leagues.
MKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1111 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12467 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): With the airline dropping the only service to Pittsburgh; Nashville; Indianapolis; Omaha, Neb.; and Columbus, Ohio, in June, Milwaukeeans will have seen their array of available nonstop destinations shrink by a third in little more than a year."
Is there another airline that would even look at offering these niche routes? The only one I could see stepping things up would be DL, or maybe WN 1x to Omaha and Nashville.
toltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3220 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12403 times:
Quoting MKE22 (Reply 1): Is there another airline that would even look at offering these niche routes?
There isn't, and that really says what needs to be said about the MKE hub. MKE had more service than it could honestly support over the years. The industry was over capacity, and no matter who ran the airline, no matter who held political office, it wasn't going to change. Just as it didn't change for the employees in PIT, the employees in CVG, and the employees in dozens of small towns across the country that have lost service. Yesterday's model doesn't work in todays economy. You want more service at MKE? Give the carriers a reason to come. Lower costs. Show that the market is willing to pay fares that support the service, instead of bottom feeding for the cheapest fares. Better yet, start a new carrier with a business model that works at MKE. The world passed YX by long before reality set in.
mke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2310 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12369 times:
Well, I guess everyone wanted the WN cattle car mentality around here and now they got it. I flew into MKE on WN the other day and the D concourse was dead except for a few F9 ERJs at the gate. I used to fly from MKE regularly, but lately I've even had to go out of ORD/MDW a few times.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): How about doing a story on what's going on with Tim Hoeksema these days? It still comes down to his mismanagement and greed - no matter how you cut it. He sold out his employees. Period.
I did not know, thanks for raising the issue.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
FRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1285 posts, RR: 16 Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12270 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): TPG, that bought and gutted YX. TPG (like Romney's Bain Capital) exists to do these hatchet jobs.
TPG lost $400 million on YX. I find it hard to believe you can honestly find fault with them. TPG exists to make money, and has invested in over 250 different companies. They exist to make money, YX did not.
"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22716 posts, RR: 88 Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12169 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): How about doing a story on what's going on with Tim Hoeksema these days?
Why? It's the past. What does it achieve?
Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 4): TPG lost $400 million on YX. I find it hard to believe you can honestly find fault with them. TPG exists to make money, and has invested in over 250 different companies. They exist to make money, YX did not.
And Northwest poured $200 million into Midwest and lost every dime.
flyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1617 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11955 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): Airports define cities, and the decline of service at MKE and the dismantling of the YX/F9 hub move the city to the minor leagues.
I am so sick of hearing this. People get this fundamental equation wrong all the time, airports do not define CITIES but rather cities define their AIRPORTS. Airlines don't dump capacity into a market and wait 10 years to see if maybe the city will grow into the routes and will begin producing demand to fill up the flights...it's never worked that way, airlines add routes where they see demand and opportunity. Don't like the limited service at your local airport? Well then grow the city and increase demand...you're not entitled by God to have at least X amount of flights. Milwaukee is a midsized market that will still, even after F9 pulls down, have a very respectable WN operation as well as a good number of flights from the legacy carriers. The city of Milwaukee is not going to suddenly fall apart and become desolate just because F9 is axing 11 flights. If airports DEFINE cities, how have cities like Indianapolis, Oklahoma City, Austin, and Columbus ever survived as thriving and growing cities without major hubs?
Your logic is flawed, sir. Milwaukee and it's airport are not going to collapse or have 'Dark Days' with F9/YX gone...it will simply have a respectable level of service that matches the demand of the local market.
TVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2200 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11955 times:
Come on. Four companies lost over three-quarters of a Billion dollars to hub a very small airline in MKE and failed. Maybe, just maybe, it was a bad idea. You seem to have only disdain for the guy who started the airline and a company that dropped a bundle to try and keep it going. And then you are upset because a politician only has positive photo ops. I really scratch my head.
What specifically should all these companies and the Governor done?
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4539 posts, RR: 28 Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11897 times:
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 9): Come on. Four companies lost over three-quarters of a Billion dollars to hub a very small airline in MKE and failed. Maybe, just maybe, it was a bad idea. You seem to have only disdain for the guy who started the airline and a company that dropped a bundle to try and keep it going. And then you are upset because a politician only has positive photo ops. I really scratch my head.
What specifically should all these companies and the Governor done?
I agree completely. As Mariner would say, use it or lose it.
kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11835 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): Excuse me, but this is getting to be old news. How about doing a story on what's going on with Tim Hoeksema these days? It still comes down to his mismanagement and greed - no matter how you cut it. He sold out his employees. Period. I have no love for Hoeksema, but let's not forget about the private-equity firm, TPG, that bought and gutted YX. TPG (like Romney's Bain Capital) exists to do these hatchet jobs. Scott Walker, as County Executive during this time, oversaw operation of MKE. Where were the F9 gate lease concessions tied to commitments to local labor? Walker didn't lift a finger as 1,500 skilled Midwest jobs left the state. Last week Walker did a photo-op at Spancrete to celebrate 30 new jobs, while the last 130 Milwaukee-based F9 employees walked out of Mitchell for the last time, and onto the state's unemployment rolls. Airports define cities, and the decline of service at MKE and the dismantling of the YX/F9 hub move the city to the minor leagues.
So the de-hubbing is old news....but you want a story on a guy that used to run MIDWEST? You really have to get over this, everything can't be his fault.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): Airports define cities, and the decline of service at MKE and the dismantling of the YX/F9 hub move the city to the minor leagues.
1. Airports don't define cities.
2. If losing what was left of that hub moves MKE to the minor leagues, the city was in the minor leagues to begin with. Where it probably belongs.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): Scott Walker, as County Executive during this time, oversaw operation of MKE. Where were the F9 gate lease concessions tied to commitments to local labor? Walker didn't lift a finger as 1,500 skilled Midwest jobs left the state. Last week Walker did a photo-op at Spancrete to celebrate 30 new jobs, while the last 130 Milwaukee-based F9 employees walked out of Mitchell for the last time, and onto the state's unemployment rolls
I see you know much about airlines. Gate leases probably weren't tied to local labor commitments because if something like that were proposed to F9 they would be wise to say "Know what.. we'll just leave now" At least they tried. If MKE was a viable hub in todays economy, they'd be a hub. MKE shouldn't be more than anyone's focus city.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2454 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11769 times:
MKE IMHO is lucky to have the southwest focus city in a way. It was never sustainable as two mini hubs for alot of reasons. It is would hve been better to have just frontier as a mini hub I think as southwest cares more about 737 flying and larger cities but what's done is done now. I am just afraid southwest will loose more interest in MKE as time goes by. The small cities like pit, oma, ind etc seem like tough for an airline to pickup. Frontier stopping MKE-lga is just sad on alot of levels I think. It will certainly be a new chapter for the airport with frontier pretty much abandoning the city and southwest taking over the airtran mini hub but times change and MKE seemed unsustainable long term as it was. MKE has entered more of reality I think denver is the next to enter it but I think it will take a while but someone's gonna slim down or go under eventually it too seems unsustainable
IllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11733 times:
Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 3): I used to fly from MKE regularly, but lately I've even had to go out of ORD/MDW a few times.
For MKE travelers, everyone knew that life was over as we knew it when YX merged into F9. They were a shoestring operation at best and as soon as FL folds up into WN its "hello ORD!" From Milwaukee it only takes an hour and fifteen minutes to get to ORD and you can fly anywhere in the country (world for that matter) non-stop. I will take that any day over having to connect. People can complain about the traffic and size of ORD, but if you know how to navigate the place it can be pretty efficient.
With improved rail connections I think MKE could've be marketed as a better alternative to MSN/ORD. Upgrading the Hiawatha to high-speed rail and extending it to Madison would've brought more passengers into MKE, but Scott Walker refused to take the money. Not to mention the KRM plans included a station on Layton Ave east of the airport and a dedicated shuttle connecting that station to terminal which would've made MKE more accessible for people in Racine and Kenosha. There is no reference in the article above but I would think that a certain percentage (probably small) of people fly a lot less often because of the incredibly invasive security procedures. I take the train whenever I can. A few years ago we took the train to Vegas and had a blast. Never had that much fun on a plane.
Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 4): I find it hard to believe you can honestly find fault with them.
Quoting mariner (Reply 6): And Northwest poured $200 million into Midwest and lost every dime.
Every flight I've been on out of MKE has been full and they even remain full today, which is good. I think F9 was poorly managed and will not remain. Airlines that are flying full flights that are not profitable = poor management. Someone will fill the business flight void at MKE, but it won't be WN.
Quoting mariner (Reply 6): Why? It's the past. What does it achieve?
Maybe to remind everyone how he sold out his loyal employees and put them in the ranks of foreclosures, no health insurance, unemployment and for some, even unexpected acute health issues due to his poor management and totally uncaring greed? Its sad but true, he totally screwed Milwaukee.
Quoting g500 (Reply 7): Maybe MKE needs to promote itself as Chicago's 3rd airport
That would be RFD, though I'm not sure if its worth for anyone from Milwaukee to drive all the way over there to catch a flight. Still, they have direct service to many cities (LAS, TPA, etc.) and free parking at the airport.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22716 posts, RR: 88 Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11668 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 13): Every flight I've been on out of MKE has been full and they even remain full today, which is good.
Full flights don't mean profitable flights. MKE's average airfares were the lowest in the country. I take it you'e aware of how much Airtran lost in Q1 2011 - the "crisis" quarter?
And I'm sure you've seen the Airtran/ Southwest load factors that were posted on that other message board.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 13): I think F9 was poorly managed and will not remain.
Still blaming Frontier, despite the money Republic poured into MKE? My gosh.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 13): Maybe to remind everyone how he sold out his loyal employees and put them in the ranks of foreclosures, no health insurance, unemployment and for some, even unexpected acute health issues due to his poor management and totally uncaring greed? Its sad but true, he totally screwed Milwaukee.
Anyone who cares already knows that. Why keep going there? How long is the wake for Midwest going to be?
MLI717fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11634 times:
Be ready for some pretty steep ridership reductions. It'll be two-fold as the number of connecting passengers will be reduced significantly, and then the fares will rise rather sharply and people will stay home or find other airports. Unfortunately MKE is likely one of the biggest losers as a results of WN's purchase of FL (in addition to the smaller airports who will see those seats evaporate and likely never return). If FL was still independent, I think MKE would be much better off.
Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 11): 1. Airports don't define cities.
2. If losing what was left of that hub moves MKE to the minor leagues, the city was in the minor leagues to begin with. Where it probably belongs.
MKE was viable as a hub airport when the economy was booming and oil was cheap. The minute MKE got flooded with RJ's, the writing was on the wall. When the economy picks up, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone step in and increase the size of their operation, but I doubt that will be a hub. With a large-sized WN operation, they will probably try to kill off anyone who gives it a shot though.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter): Scott Walker, as County Executive during this time, oversaw operation of MKE. Where were the F9 gate lease concessions tied to commitments to local labor? Walker didn't lift a finger as 1,500 skilled Midwest jobs left the state. Last week Walker did a photo-op at Spancrete to celebrate 30 new jobs, while the last 130 Milwaukee-based F9 employees walked out of Mitchell for the last time, and onto the state's unemployment rolls.
I agreed with most of your statement, but this read as kind of a rant. The jobs were lost as a result of the fact that F9 was unable to make money in MKE. I doubt those jobs would have stayed even if the state offered up significant benefits (I have no clue whether or not they did) to stay around.
mke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2310 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11488 times:
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 9): What specifically should all these companies and the Governor done?
I think he's referring to the fact that the F9/YX acquisition that displaced Wisconsin jobs happened under Walker's tenure, as did the decision by F9 to abandon the YX brand/hub.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 13): With improved rail connections I think MKE could've be marketed as a better alternative to MSN/ORD. Upgrading the Hiawatha to high-speed rail and extending it to Madison would've brought more passengers into MKE, but Scott Walker refused to take the money.
I agree with the Chicago-Milwaukee rail route, but to use Madison - Watertown - and Oconomowoc as an excuse to build a highly taxpayer subsidized rail route isn't being very logical. The long waits at ORD is reason enough to consider MKE as an alternative, but to convenience a few thrifty travelers from small communities is just ridiculous. Besides, getting people to MKE was never the justification for extending the Hiawatha to Madison. Its main purpose was getting people between Madison and Chicago - increased traffic at MKE was just supposed to be a side benefit.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 13): There is no reference in the article above but I would think that a certain percentage (probably small) of people fly a lot less often because of the incredibly invasive security procedures. I take the train whenever I can. A few years ago we took the train to Vegas and had a blast. Never had that much fun on a plane.
Taking the train from Milwaukee to Las Vegas would cost twice as much as flying and it would take two days instead of three hours. You need to have your head examined if you would do that just to avoid the security screening...
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
WNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11461 times:
Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 3): Well, I guess everyone wanted the WN cattle car mentality
Really? This is so tired... WN is far less "cattle car" than some of these other airlines' main cabin products. It's just a tired, old, worn out view that I'm sure some comedian started in 1992... can we move past this?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
United727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 379 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11339 times:
Quoting toltommy (Reply 2): Yesterday's model doesn't work in todays economy. You want more service at MKE? Give the carriers a reason to come. Lower costs. Show that the market is willing to pay fares that support the service, instead of bottom feeding for the cheapest fares. Better yet, start a new carrier with a business model that works at MKE.
Alright, Arm Chair CEO's.....let's hijack this thread and begin coming up with the conceptual "Airline" mentioned in this response. What's it going to take to get a working business model in MKE?? So many naysayers have badmouthed MSN, RFD, GYY lately as airports wanting to be Chicago's preferred third airport. MKE even has signage on the I-90 corridor claiming that they are indeed Chicago's 3rd airport. As time rolls on MKE is going to look like RFD with just as little passenger service if things keep going as they are.
SO....What's the new model going to look like???? Any suggestions?
Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
Says who? They only paid 250 million for their share. Where does it say they put more money into the company after that? And one question I have for the all knowing crew out there. Whatever became of the 200+million in cash Midwest had when they were purchased? I know what I was told happened to it but since they went private, does anyone really know?
Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 4): They exist to make money, YX did not.
So you are saying that YX did not exist as a company to make money? Really?
kingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 18 Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11169 times:
Quoting sideflare75 (Reply 19): So you are saying that YX did not exist as a company to make money? Really?
No, I took it as YX was not viable and did not make a lot of money.
Quoting sideflare75 (Reply 19): Says who? They only paid 250 million for their share. Where does it say they put more money into the company after that?
Quote: The acquisition by Republic was 22 months after TPG and Northwest Airlines paid $450 million for Midwest. The total loss of investment by TPG and Northwest was 93% or $419 million.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
MLI717fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11138 times:
Quoting United727 (Reply 18): As time rolls on MKE is going to look like RFD with just as little passenger service if things keep going as they are.
While I agree that there was a lot of overcapacity at MKE, MKE is a bit larger than the Kansas City metro area, I'd say MCI is a better representation of what MKE may become. (MCI = 2.2m, MKE = 2.8m)
RFD will always suffer from a lot of leakage to ORD. Also, RFD got hit HARD by the current recession. I think Allegiant style non-stop P2P service will work well for RFD.
Quoting United727 (Reply 18): Alright, Arm Chair CEO's.....let's hijack this thread and begin coming up with the conceptual "Airline" mentioned in this response.
Sure, I'll give it a go.
I'd say an airline flying 100 seaters 2-3x daily to the most popular non-hub major destinations from MKE. They would have to do something different than the other carriers though, and that's what I'm not sure of. Midwest offered service that was well above what most of the majors offered.
kingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 18 Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11099 times:
Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 21): MKE is a bit larger than the Kansas City metro area, I'd say MCI is a better representation of what MKE may become. (MCI = 2.2m, MKE = 2.8m)
Except MCI doesn't have Chicagoland less than an hour away with 9.8 million people. MKE's asset and problem as far as air service is concerned is its proximity to Chicago. It will never get away from that.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
IllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10990 times:
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 9): And then you are upset because a politician only has positive photo ops. I really scratch my head.
What specifically should all these companies and the Governor done?
The airport is owned and operated by Milwaukee County. Until the past year Scott Walker was the County Executive. This appears to be another example of his great ability to create and maintain jobs in Wisconsin and maintain the airport which was one of the major assets to businesses in southeast Wisconsin. Spancrete's photo-op of a puny 30 jobs was overshadowed by the loss of F9's 130. That's a net loss of 100. Happy to argue facts with you, but the rhetoric doesn't impress.
Quoting mariner (Reply 14): How long is the wake for Midwest going to be?
Maybe the Journal Sentinel should be running all the feel good pieces it ran when F9 took over, just for nostalgia's sake? How about those millions of pictures of the Mayor shaking hands, cutting ribbons, and cozying up with the F9 officials?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22716 posts, RR: 88 Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10923 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 23): Maybe the Journal Sentinel should be running all the feel good pieces it ran when F9 took over, just for nostalgia's sake? How about those millions of pictures of the Mayor shaking hands, cutting ribbons, and cozying up with the F9 officials?
Why? That's the past, too.
mariner
aeternum nauta
25 FRNT787: No. I am saying they did not make money, which is true.
26 slcdeltarumd11: I don't think the airport or frontier did anything wrong or bad certainly nothing majority just the way things ends do up. It just happens that MKE is
27 MaverickM11: What about an article on how YX was totally nonviable long-term, and that the sale provided a last chance for some of the employees and assets to rem
28 Cubsrule: Huh? YX was losing money and had already had one bankruptcy. The choices were a hub that was not at all viable with FL (4x to HPN or 3x to YUL, anyon
29 homsar: I think you need to ease off on the blaming Scott Walker for this one. I'm no fan of Mr. Walker myself, but I think bringing him up in this discussio
30 sideflare75: But they did make money. Even after all the terrible years after 2001 they were able to make a profit in 2006 and 2007. People can hate Tim all they
31 ckfred: When airlines went to hub-and-spoke operations, the belief was that any city could be a hub, because of the connecting traffic. I've even seen studies
32 PlanesNTrains: Well, if by "a few years ago" you mean 1997, then I guess flying was better then too. Amtrak hasn't served Las Vegas since 1997, so you would have ha
33 MaverickM11: Considering CHI is a 3 way battle between UA/AA/WN with loads of additional competition, those are some low fares--too low to support a hub, that's f
34 mogandoCI: Add RNO to that list, with CVG, MEM, and possibly CLE next in line for the axe. I would take CMH out of that list. Skybus flopped because they tried
36 jfklganyc: Things change quick. A few years ago, MKE was the fastest growing airport in the country as F9, Airtran and WN started adding flights. But reality is
37 JHCRJ700: I would be interested to see a breakdown of just how many people fly out of BWI that live close to or in DC. I think our airport's name has got to be
38 HPRamper: I just took the train on a 36 hour trip, and security was not a huge concern. Items like overall much greater comfort, free parking at the train stat
39 airtran737: I love it. All of the YX cheerleaders who were against the FL takeover are getting theirs in the end. I guess "Save The Cookie'' didn't work out so w
40 MLI717fan: The latest month Transtats has available is 1/2012 for MKE. In January, WN had 510 flights, which comes out to about 16.5/day. FL had 1,227 or 39.5/d
41 TVNWZ: Actually, for the flying public, it worked out just the same as it would have if FL took over YX. No difference.
42 Cubsrule: Didn't they file in late summer, 2003? I vividly remember all the doom and gloom leading up to a filing, and I thought they had filed after that, but
43 YXwatcherMKE: To set the record straight, YX did not ever file for BK. Yes it did have a few years 2001 to 2003 where it did not make a profit (I know I was a stock
44 Cubsrule: How about the FRJs and 1900s, even to large-ish cities like Nashville, Saint Louis and Columbus? No. The summer of 2003 was really, really bad and th
45 mariner: The E170's came at the start of the Republic involvement. Milwaukee must have gotten used to them very fast. The smaller RJ's never flew out of DEN,
46 PlaneAdmirer: Who wants to be a millionaire.....
47 mke717spotter: They were close to filing for BK at the time but were able to avoid it with some sort of restructuring plan, or at least I think that's how it was. F
48 YXwatcherMKE: I didn't say that 2003 was not bad, it was and they did lose a lot of money (stock value was down to $2.00 and I bought in at $4.00) and there was a
49 Cubsrule: You characterized it as the 9/11 swoon that affected the whole industry. Summer 2003 was more than that. No one else was that close to filing around
50 kcrwflyer: I don't think any airline CEO is personally controlling the fleet mix of any route or hub. If anything, I see the influx of RJ's into MKE as an hones
51 brilondon: CEO's of airlines don't usually have much to do with the operations of the companies they are in charge of. They are the elected head of the corporat
52 CIDFlyer: im sure there's a lot of moaning and groaning in MKE about losing F9/YX but lets face it MKE was never a huge hub in the sense that MSP/DTW/ORD etc ar
53 skycub: I will admit, I have not read all of the posts in this thread.... But I do have an honest question.... With all due respect to Milwaukee.... Southwest
54 kcrwflyer: Does anyone have the list of things WN said they plan on doing/having during/after this merger? It should have it's own wikipedia page by now.
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