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SIA To Drop Athens, Abu Dhabi  
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18595 times:

Just announced by SIA.

ATH and AUH will be suspended by the end of Oct.

Very sad to see Athens loosing another international carrier.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012...o-athens-abu-dhabi-on-weak-demand/

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1969 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18565 times:

Will the JED flight go via DXB then?

User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18502 times:

ATH is no surprise seen the economic collapse of that country. Looking at it that way I wonder how long service to Italy and Spain will last. They need the front occupied, and thats hard with an economy in shatters.


Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18355 times:

Athens cant be a shock to anyone. I would not be surprised to hear of more airlines at least changing to seasonal service in the future.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3123 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18218 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
Athens cant be a shock to anyone. I would not be surprised to hear of more airlines at least changing to seasonal service in the future

So will ATH finally bottom out and those carriers that stuck with it will reap the rewards once the economy rebounds, or will ATH end up like a ULCC hub for an airline or two, with a few European carriers flying there mostly for connections onward?



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 18198 times:

SQ had announced that they were going back to the tag ATH-IST-SIN from the Winter timetable but loads were very light on the ATH-IST sector so I guess it doesnt make sense.

The Gulf carriers have the business these days at ATH . There is not enough bums to fill seats in the current climate so I guess only the fittest survive.

Trends at ATH have changed and some airlines are doing well and some have seen large drops.

Sad to see SQ go but not a surprise to anyone. Maybe they will return in future or on a seasonal basis like many carriers do . ATH is seasonal for longhaul.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1240 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17921 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
ATH is no surprise seen the economic collapse of that country. Looking at it that way I wonder how long service to Italy and Spain will last. They need the front occupied, and thats hard with an economy in shatters.

Somehow I dont think this route is failing because of the greek economy. As seen there is plenty of money in Greece, just not where the government can reach it...
Its more that the gulfcarriers have taken over the job of transporting greeks to the likes of Melbourne. Almost every gulfcarrier serves Athems these days and SQ cant beat them on price or serice or amount of destinations.

If SQ has to stop Rome it will be because they cant compete with the gulfcarriers not because the market has dried out.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17857 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 6):
Its more that the gulfcarriers have taken over the job of transporting greeks to the likes of Melbourne. Almost every gulfcarrier serves Athems these days and SQ cant beat them on price or serice or amount of destinations.

Indeed, I agree. Interesting this maybe a route where we see the gulf carriers doing to SQ, what SQ has done to QF/OA/BA etc out of Australia to ATH.


User currently onlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17858 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 6):
If SQ has to stop Rome

Rome may very well be the next one to get the axe. With 3 weekly frequencies in summer and just 2 in winter, and with CX recently announcing a reduction in HKGFCO service, things are likely not looking good there.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17780 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
ATH is no surprise seen the economic collapse of that country. Looking at it that way I wonder how long service to Italy and Spain will last. They need the front occupied, and thats hard with an economy in shatters.

Oh come one, Greece's economy is a drop in the bucket compared to Italy and Spain. Remember that the economic collapse is impacting primarily the public sector, not so much the private sector. It's the private sector that occupies the front cabin. I'd say that competition and fuel costs has greater impact on SQ's service than the local economy.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 6):
If SQ has to stop Rome it will be because they cant compete with the gulfcarriers not because the market has dried out.

   That too.


User currently offlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 479 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17738 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 6):
Somehow I dont think this route is failing because of the greek economy. As seen there is plenty of money in Greece, just not where the government can reach it...
Its more that the gulfcarriers have taken over the job of transporting greeks to the likes of Melbourne. Almost every gulfcarrier serves Athems these days and SQ cant beat them on price or serice or amount of destinations.

If SQ has to stop Rome it will be because they cant compete with the gulfcarriers not because the market has dried out.

The volume going from ATH to Asia is just not there. TG also could not sustain this route on a daily basis. And with 2 flights a week, it is not sustainable. It is purely catering to tourist. The ME carriers can make it work, because apart from connections to SE Asia and Australia, they offer also connections to Middle East, India and Africa.

I think the capacity will be re-routed to CPH, going from 3 times per week possibly to 5 times per week. CPH loads are good (also a lot of leisure) and the ATH and CPH flights were both old 77Es, so the config was the same.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5203 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17714 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
emember that the economic collapse is impacting primarily the public sector, not so much the private sector. It's the private sector that occupies the front cabin.

The problem with this is that Greece is a country which literally fits Margaret Thatcher's "nation of shopkeepers". I've read that the average private sector firm in Greece employs fewer than 15 people. SMEs are those that sit up front.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1288 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17659 times:

Sure is. SQ has a premium public following in the UAE but it's hard to beat local airlines like EY and EK.

As for ATH, same thing here, the Gulf carriers have made their nest, don't all EK, EY and QR operate there regularly?

Unless SIN is your destination, you have little motivation to favor SQ over the others, and the market ATH-SIN can only be a slim one.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineLOT767SP-LPA From Poland, joined May 2002, 156 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 17371 times:

There is still Central European market to fill by SQ like Prague or Warsaw.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17121 times:

Quoting brightcedars (Reply 12):
As for ATH, same thing here, the Gulf carriers have made their nest, don't all EK, EY and QR operate there regularly?

Yes GF EK EY QR

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/SKATH/file-140.jpg


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17120 times:

Isn't Gulf Air dropping Athens as well?

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17043 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 15):
Isn't Gulf Air dropping Athens as well?

Indeed my bad . GF dropped out in March . Pic was taken prior. They were weak in ATH compared to their other Gulf neighbours. GF seem to have dropped alot in recent years. They pulled out of DUB also then EY came in and cleaned up which GF failed on .

Out of ATH the Gulf carriers get alot of migrant workers from Asia which must keep them going.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16849 times:

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 10):
The volume going from ATH to Asia is just not there. TG also could not sustain this route on a daily basis. And with 2 flights a week, it is not sustainable. It is purely catering to tourist. The ME carriers can make it work, because apart from connections to SE Asia and Australia, they offer also connections to Middle East, India and Africa.

Somehow I don't think there's a lot of traffic between Athens and Africa or between Athens and India, or even between Athens and the ME. However there is traffic between Athens and Australia as well as some of Asia and the Gulf hubs and airlines are far better positioned to handle this traffic than SIN or BKK. More importantly, ATH is a very long flight from SIN and with fuel costs as high as they are my guess is that it just doesn't addup anymore.


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16516 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
Indeed my bad . GF dropped out in March . Pic was taken prior. They were weak in ATH compared to their other Gulf neighbours. GF seem to have dropped alot in recent years. They pulled out of DUB also then EY came in and cleaned up which GF failed on .

Maybe you can confirm, but did Gulf Air operate their Embraers into Athens some time ago? I remember seeing them though I am not sure.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):

I know this might not mean much but the last two times I flew out of Athens I remember seeing a lot of passengers waiting for both Qatar's and Emirates' flights and they were Pakistani, Indians and Chinese. They must been at least in the hundreds in the non-Schengen part of the airport. Most of them seemed like tourists though.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12903 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16297 times:
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Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
Very sad to see Athens loosing another international carrier.

Is this flight dropped or going seasonal? What long haul with ATH have this winter?

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 4):
So will ATH finally bottom out and those carriers that stuck with it will reap the rewards once the economy rebounds,

When ATH recovers, airlines will re-enter the market. I suspect ATH will do better once the 787 is in mass production (lower cost per long-haul flight)

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
Yes GF EK EY QR

Nice photo! The EK widebody sticks out. But as you note:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
GF dropped out in March .

  GF just doesn't have the connections of TK, EK, QR, and EY. It isn't good to be #5 in a race where only the top 3 are able to make a profit or break even.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
Out of ATH the Gulf carriers get alot of migrant workers from Asia which must keep them going.

With the status of the economy, is there much demand in ATH for migrant workers?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinelax777lr From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16009 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 4):
So will ATH finally bottom out and those carriers that stuck with it will reap the rewards once the economy rebounds, or will ATH end up like a ULCC hub for an airline or two, with a few European carriers flying there mostly for connections onward?

Unfortunately I don't think any rewards will ever outweigh the bleeding for the foreseeable future in Athens..... ULCC is the only possibility for success...


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15663 times:



I seem to remember they were deploying them but I dont recall seeing them at ATH .

Quoting ju068 (Reply 18):
Maybe you can confirm, but did Gulf Air operate their Embraers into Athens some time ago? I remember seeing them though I am not sure.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
When ATH recovers, airlines will re-enter the market. I suspect ATH will do better once the 787 is in mass production (lower cost per long-haul flight)
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
With the status of the economy, is there much demand in ATH for migrant workers?
Quoting lax777lr (Reply 20):
Unfortunately I don't think any rewards will ever outweigh the bleeding for the foreseeable future in Athens..... ULCC is the only possibility for success...

I see the majority staying and ATH still retains decent carriers like LH LX BA AF KL TK EK EY QR A3 OA etc... Many added flights over the last 18 months. BA have 4 flights a day now LHR-ATH the additional 0630 from LHR is a good sign too . A mix of A320s and B767s are used. With the thousands of Greeks that have left for other European capitals the trends of traffic will change. Ironically the exodus might increase some European traffic with people travelling back and forth.


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15500 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):
I see the majority staying and ATH still retains decent carriers like LH LX BA AF KL TK EK EY QR A3 OA etc... Many added flights over the last 18 months.

You forgot JU 

All jokes aside they did increase the seat capacity from 750 to 924 weekly seats offered between Belgrade and Athens.


User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15421 times:

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 1):
Will the JED flight go via DXB then?

Came in to ask this. What will happen to the JED flights?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15206 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 22):
You forgot JU 

All jokes aside they did increase the seat capacity from 750 to 924 weekly seats offered between Belgrade and Athens.

Indeed .   lol... I chose the ones with the hubs   Except A3 and OA of course who are small point to point airlines with A3 more of a feeder to Star Alliance with some key EU routes.

Regarding SQ for those that want to go that direction there are decent connections VIA IST with TK or even A3 to IST and then pick up SQ. Its only a short hop to IST .

AIA also have a great incentive available to airlines on certain routes 15% if they maintain their services give or take 5% on the previous year and for new routes upto 50% discount on landing/parking fees.


25 bestwestern : Foreign investment in greece has dried up totally i understand - companies are afraid to invest until the market settles. These are the people who tra
26 lightsaber : Companies are afraid to invest as there is too high of a tax/socialization risk. You are correct, if they are not investing, that kills last minute p
27 LJ : Many also reduced like KL (reduced by 2 dailies during Summer and 1 daily during Winter), SN and TP (both will serve ATH only during Summers). I thin
28 peanuts : The economics of Greece, in my view, have only expedited ATH's long term fate: becoming a spoke/feeder for only a few major carriers. Olympic has lost
29 ju068 : I do not think we can even speak about Olympic as an important carrier. The Greek government made sure of that. I believe it was Aegean that could ha
30 dash8pilot : Although SQ will be missed.. A few airlines are acctually starting/ resuming operations to Athens. 1) Aegean Airlines to Beirut 2) Aegean Airlines to
31 OA260 : ATH was only a minor transit mini hub in the old days of Olympic Airways when they operated from Hellinikon and only managed to offer all those longh
32 Post contains images sq_ek_freak : Holy cow I didn't realize that Rome had fallen to such spotty frequencies from Cathay and Singapore. I'm assuming CX uses the A343 and SQ uses their
33 ju068 : Not a new route but airBaltic had announced that they will be increasing Riga-Athens from 3 to 4 weekly flights. Also Cyprus Airways recently launche
34 peanuts : Athens was much more important before that. Athens was an important stopover between NW Europe and Asia for different major carriers, refueling being
35 OA260 : Location yes but one might argue so is BEG / OTP and SOF . The Balkans have changed. Old state run cash cows are dead now . Governments + Airlines =
36 Post contains links lightsaber : ATH needs to finish the connection to the port via rail. The best solution to aviation service is to grow demand. The other is create a better impress
37 OA260 : Its not needed. I take the Express bus from ATH to Piraeus port everytime I go back its quick , frequent ( 24 hours ) and only EUR5 .
38 Ben175 : I flew SIN-AUH in January and loads were quite low in J but almost full in Y. I guess yields must be quite bad too.
39 slcdeltarumd11 : I can't imagine how there hasn't been a significant drop in passenger numbers at Athens. Nor seeing the Greek government would I trust any numbers the
40 Post contains images pilotanthony : My mum worked for Olympic Airways/Airlines for 25 years in the London office for ticketing and reservations, i miss the old Olympic and the old Greece
41 Post contains images lightsaber : Fair enough. I still think the rail will help tourism. Invest for growth or ... Thank you for the input. I look at the financial data, for air travel
42 IndianicWorld : AUH really seems to be struggling too. That is SQ and AF in a short amount of time that have left. EY must be taking most of the market that exists,
43 ju068 : Better catering as well, not to mention that OA's aircraft are in an incomparably better state than those of Aegean. Vast majority of their aircraft
44 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you. I sit corrected. I would agree. If ATH had built a hub earlier and promoted it, they could have accelerated growth. Greece could use that
45 klwright69 : Yes, most here seem to only talk about ATH. The dropping off AUH is also interesting.. The shows that EY is really stomping on the competition in AUH
46 LJ : ATH passenger figures are still dropping (even after terrible figures of last year). Total passenger traffic dropped 11.1% Q1 2012 (international tra
47 OA260 : For Athens one would take the metro as it makes sense. For Piraeus the express bus is the way to go and Im never caught in traffic jams on that route
48 slcdeltarumd11 : Delta is seasonal now to Athens. No us carrier is gonna fly to Athens year round I don't think United has canceled its daily 767-400 flights this summ
49 IndianicWorld : Not surprising that ATH Pax numbers are in freefall. Seemingly, the main thing that is driving demand currently are Greeks departing the country and E
50 OA260 : There is still premium traffic demand intra EU J class cabins to and from ATH . People think the whole country has shut down which is not true. There
51 bestwestern : Traffic stats point to the summer remaining somewhat strong, but off peak showing significant weakness 2012 Jan - Mar Athens -11.2% -10.6% -11.2% 2011
52 IndianicWorld : OA260, the numbers say it all. Carriers pulling out is a sign of market weakness, which usually relates more to viable yields than anything else. That
53 bestwestern : For established carriers like SQ, pulling out is a sign of long term market weakness, that wont be recovered quickly.
54 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you for the numbers. That is very interesting. Why not? With the huge flow of tourist traffic, a large Greece based airline has a nice start. I
55 Post contains links OA260 : Yet why are some airlines increasing flights and capacity then and new routes? Wasnt going to happen. Ive followed Greek aviation for over two decade
56 6thfreedom : the other reason is the balance of OD market. with a population at least 8 times that of Greece, Turkey has the ability to draw more on the OD market
57 FlyboyOz : Don't worry.... I'm waiting for Jetstar to fly to Athen soon - maybe next year 2013 or 2014.
58 IndianicWorld : Don't hold your breath on that one. If you read what was stated, there may well be some routes that still have demand, but many others will continue
59 huaiwei : There is a long string of SQ pullouts over the years, whether in the midst of a global financial crisis or not. I won't use this event alone to make
60 OA260 : And what Im saying is that its far from the doom and gloom some people project. The country doesnt close down because of an economic crisis. Yes rout
61 bennett123 : IMO, we will know a lot more about the prospects for ATH, and Greece more generally following the elections on June 17th. If they are inconclusive aga
62 IndianicWorld : I agree. The signal is that they do not see a turn around anytime soon, but just how long that viewpoint is is not quite clear. In these conditions,
63 lightsaber : Not to the degree it should have been by now. My point is expand or be overcome by events. Lightsaber
64 Post contains links TIA : ATH numbers by month: http://www.hochtief-airport.com/hta_en/200.jhtml I have been going to ATH about once a year or so for quite some time. But the
65 Post contains images lightsaber : I should have gone to the CIA factbook before posting. Game set and match. You make a great point. ~80 million to ~11 million is a HUGE gap to cover.
66 Post contains images LAXintl : For the record, going back and until the 1980s, Athens was a viable Mediterranean transfer hub. In comparison, Istanbul was nothing, simply a O&D
67 lightsaber : Thank you for your perspective. It would be tougher today with TK/EK/QR/EY and I would suspect (one day) better Indian hubbing. As you put it, it is
68 Post contains images peanuts : We know TK/IST/Turkey and OA/ATH/Greece are different markets. That doesn't take away the lack of vision component into all of this. OA/ATH/Greece co
69 TIA : The train is more comfortable and faster. No question about that. But also it's significantly more expensive and I don't think that any of ATH troubl
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