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Southwest Deferring 73H Deliveries  
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1738 posts, RR: 12
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 17620 times:
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Right off the bat, I got this (this time) from Holly tweeting under her Plane Business account...and it probably came from the airline conference...

Southwest is deferring 20 737-800's from 2013 and 10 737-800's from 2014 into 2017 and 2018 and the end result with save a billion dollars from capital investment.

A lot of questions and heck, when was the last time SWA deferred deliveries? Even after 9/11 they took new build 73G's and parked them in Mojave after leasing them to some credit off-shoot they devised.

And, obviously, how does this play, if at all, into the imminent 717 announcement with Boeing Capital? The latest I'm being told from ATL is the deal is framed to allow AirTran to return the 717 to Boeing Capital and after a certain gestation period, Capital will sell the aircraft to Delta - and this avoid any pilot union issues with AirTran/SWA.

Lots of hyperbole...

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 17332 times:

Can you provide a link please im very intrigued by this


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 17253 times:

So how many planes will they take delivery of the remainder of this year? And how many will they now take delivery of in 2013?

Thanks



Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 17182 times:

Well I thought they have 50 800's on order so I guess maybe taking 20 between now and then? I guess this will put hawaiian plans on hold a bit or will they just use what they have on property now to do that flying when its announced whenever that will be?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineB6WNQX From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16973 times:

Could this be something in relation to the 717 possibly going to DL and DL maybe assign deliveries to WN? I'm not sure if DL has any open orders for any 737's, but just a thought. They say that it will cut CAPEX, but if the entire transaction is a wash for CAPEX, then it would not impact their public statement about the deferals.

User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16789 times:

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 5):
Could this be something in relation to the 717 possibly going to DL and DL maybe assign deliveries to WN?

Precisely my first thought. DL has an order for 100 B737-900's with deliveries scheduled to begin in 2013. I get the feeling that converting that delivery slot from a -900 to an -800 wouldn't take a whole lot of effort.

[Edited 2012-05-16 09:44:44]

User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9408 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16788 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 2):
Can you provide a link please im very intrigued by this

Right now it's just on my wire services, of which you have to be a member

In short -
* Defer deliveries of 30 boeing jets.
* All are 737-800 models
* Half planes to come in 2017, rest a year later
* Will save $1 billion in capital spending for 2013 and 2014
* Authorization for stock buybacks will now double to $1 billion



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16517 times:

This is not bullish at all. They didn't order the planes just because they wanted them and now they are seeking to hold back. If they are pushing to 2017 and 2018, then those could well become MAXes.

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12722 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16351 times:

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 8):
If they are pushing to 2017 and 2018, then those could well become MAXes.

Given the hasty emergence of the MAX, perhaps WN didn't factor it into its plans very well, so you may very well be right.

Not to say this isn't a setback to both WN and Boeing....



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5192 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16295 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 9):
Not to say this isn't a setback to both WN and Boeing....

I think there are a couple of balls at play here. DL & 717s, desire for MAXs vs. NGs. I don't think it is a setback at all, I think we are on the outside looking in on a very complex negotiation between 3 or 4 parties.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15993 times:

WN is still taking delivery of 21 73H in 2013 and 29 73H in 2014. By the end of 2014, WN will have 83 737H in the fleet... I'd say that's enough to still do Hawaii.

[Edited 2012-05-16 10:56:51]


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15934 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 7):
* Authorization for stock buybacks will now double to $1 billion

It isn't just about aircraft... stock buybacks are done for a purpose.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15730 times:

Quoting planemaker (Reply 12):
It isn't just about aircraft... stock buybacks are done for a purpose.

As with most buy-backs, they probably think they're undervalued so they're removing some shares from trading; hypothetically increasing the value of the remaining outstanding shares.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 14682 times:

The buyback also got my attention. WN is making an economic decision that buying back the stock is a better use of capital than buying new planes even though new planes generate revenues and/or cost savings. This is not a particularly optimistic view by WN.

User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14262 times:

Could WN be deferring the 30 -800s because they may be getting 20-30 -800s from DL as part of the 717 deal?


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2377 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14134 times:

I think there's more to this than just cost cutting. Perhaps deferring with plans to convert to the MAX? With the planned deliveries and potential DL slots, WN should be able to replace the 717 capacity. However, the 737 classics may be in service a little longer.

Quoting n7371f (Thread starter):
The latest I'm being told from ATL is the deal is framed to allow AirTran to return the 717 to Boeing Capital and after a certain gestation period, Capital will sell the aircraft to Delta - and this avoid any pilot union issues with AirTran/SWA.

This would be the most beneficial outcome for Boeing and DL. The scenario involving sub-leases and compensation is quite convoluted, and may have been drafted just as leverage. RA would rather own outright, and Boeing would rather sell and wash their hands of the type. Throw in another dozen frames (current Boeing property and/or pending returns) and DL could have a deal for a 100 strong fleet for under $1B.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3123 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12786 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 2):
Can you provide a link please im very intrigued by this

Courtesy: Bloomberg News

Southwest Delays 30 Jet Deliveries To Save $1 Billion

"Kelly has told employees they needed to be diligent in increasing efficiency and trimming spending as competitors narrowed Southwest’s historic unit cost advantage.

“We have to work with our employees in a forward-looking way to find ways that we can beat every competitor on costs,” he said. “We need to beat them in every way.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-to-save-1-billion.html?cmpid=yhoo


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11623 times:

Quoting JayDub (Reply 5):
Precisely my first thought. DL has an order for 100 B737-900's with deliveries scheduled to begin in 2013. I get the feeling that converting that delivery slot from a -900 to an -800 wouldn't take a whole lot of effort.



DL will not be deferring/converting ANY 739s for WN's use. The first one will be on property as scheduled starting next year.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11557 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 15):
I think there's more to this than just cost cutting.

Agreed. Isn't hard to figure out. Slow down on growth and get the FL mess done. Hopefully by this time economy comes back and growth can start.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 17):

DL will not be deferring/converting ANY 739s for WN's use. The first one will be on property as scheduled starting next year.

        
to many planes that have to be replaced. 717 can't replace a 757.



yep.
User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1106 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10440 times:
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No one seems to be taking notice that AirTran has about 50 737-700s that Southwest needs to absorb.
This does not also include the predicament Southwest has with the 717s it is acquiring.   


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10414 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 19):

well the FL 737s will still be flying the same routes so thus they aren't going to adding capacity. New airplanes would be adding capacity.



yep.
User currently offlinehomsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10246 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 19):
No one seems to be taking notice that AirTran has about 50 737-700s that Southwest needs to absorb.
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 20):
well the FL 737s will still be flying the same routes so thus they aren't going to adding capacity. New airplanes would be adding capacity.

Unless (and this is purely hypothetical) WN somehow decided that they can't operate FL's route network profitably and are going to significantly reduce service on that side without a corresponding increase on the WN side.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineMLI717fan From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8119 times:

I don't know if anyone caught it, but the WN/FL LowerFaresFarther website is no longer online. I guess WN gave up on pushing the BS that the FL network will remain....

http://www.airtran.com/lowfaresfarther/

(Click the link at the bottom, page cannot be found)

Ouch.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13258 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8035 times:
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Quoting n7371f (Thread starter):
A lot of questions and heck, when was the last time SWA deferred deliveries? Even after 9/11 they took new build 73G's and parked them in Mojave after leasing them to some credit off-shoot they devised.

I recall WN delaying when they received 73Gs post 9/11. So this isn't unprecedented. They accepted some, but not that many.

I also think this is a LOUD statement to unions that there is no growth. In other words, play nice with the FL unions or ?

Quoting n7371f (Thread starter):
Southwest is deferring 20 737-800's from 2013 and 10 737-800's from 2014 into 2017 and 2018

Am I the only one who thinks this ends the discussion of the 717s going to DL?

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 7):
This is not bullish at all. They didn't order the planes just because they wanted them and now they are seeking to hold back. If they are pushing to 2017 and 2018, then those could well become MAXes.

It could be WN's assessment to not buy aircraft that will have... accelerated depreciation curves.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinetztristar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1453 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7965 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 15):
Throw in another dozen frames (current Boeing property and/or pending returns)

So where are these supposed extra dozen coming from? BCC has no other available 717s.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
25 TSS : That was my first thought as well: Defer (some) current orders and convert them to MAXes at a later date.
26 cmb320 : Or possibly this means Delta will NOT be taking the 717's so Southwest is stuck with them and doesn't want the additional capacity of more 737-800's.
27 FlyASAGuy2005 : OR, they're finally seeing the light. New and shiny isn't always the way to go. That's a LOT of debt to have on the books at a time where your ROI isn
28 MSPNWA : Which would seem logical. WN will still be planning on taking quite a few 73H deliveries in both 2013 and 2014. The aircraft that WN will be looking
29 FlyASAGuy2005 : Of course. I don't have the numbers in front of me but someone did a great analysis of the MD90 which is paid for vs. a 738 that would have a mortgag
30 slcdeltarumd11 : Very interesting. Everyone has good theories on here. It does make me think we will hear some more detailed long term plans or 717 swapping somewhat s
31 usflyguy : I think that instead of retiring the -300's at the pace they were going to, they're going to stick around and keep on flying. The majority of them are
32 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Not a thing wrong with them and if fuel spikes, they can temporarily park these as there are no payments to be made. A Much tougher call with 73Gs an
33 scouseflyer : It also reduces future liabilities as there are less shares to pay dividends out on with shares being effectively a very helpful form of debt.
34 stlgph : For what it's worth, Southwest expects full integration of AirTran by 2015, so says Gary Kelly at an airline conference this morning.
35 mcg : Will Boeing be able to shift the deffered production slots to another buyer?
36 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : From 2012-2014, WN will receive 83 NB deliveries from Boeing (78 738s and 5 73Gs). How many 717s do they have? 88.. If the plan is to trim back on gr
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