Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AA Applies To Expand MIA/JFK-Brazil Flying  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8779 times:

American Airlines has submitted an application with DOT to increase Brazil flying as follows:

*Increase New York-Sao Paulo from 7w to 14w effective 01 October 2012. This new flight will be a daylight service and operate with a 777-200ER. American will transfer GRU-eligible frequencies currently used on MIAGIG to JFKGRU; it is therefore technically applying for 7w MIAGIG frequencies.


*Increase Miami-Rio de Janeiro from 7w to 14w effective 15 December 2012. This new flight will operate with a 767-300ER. This is in addition to the 7w frequencies it is applying for to use current MIAGIG slots on JFKGRU.

*Split Miami-Salvador-Recife-Miami operation from a daily round-robin to five weekly non-stops each effective 15 November 2012, operating with a 757-200. AA is applying for a total of three frequencies to makes this change.

With this application, though, we can likely say that plans to service Porto Alegre and Curitiba, which AA's Brazilian head of sales confirmed are planned recently, are probably not going to to happen in 2012.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ame...onal-brazil-frequencies-2012-05-16



[Edited 2012-05-16 10:50:47]


a.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8736 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I think they are focusing on adjusting current services to South America then ramping up new services once things are more clear on the bankruptcy front as well as taking new a/c which will improve their overall fleet plan.

User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8491 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Split Miami-Salvador-Recife-Miami operation from a daily round-robin to five weekly non-stops each effective 15 November 2012, operating with a 757-200. AA is applying for a total of three frequencies to makes this change.

So is this an indication that the route is doing well and needs split or is this an indication that the route is struggling and needs a split to work better.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8492 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):

So is this an indication that the route is doing well and needs split or is this an indication that the route is struggling and needs a split to work better.

AA does not tolerate weak performing long-haul stations. If SSA/REC were not doing well, AA would have discontinued service.



a.
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1017 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8489 times:

Is not AA incresing frequencies to BSB this summer?

User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2165 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8402 times:

Expected that AA would concentrate on increasing Brazil....that is about the best place to put aircraft. However...this is pretty much running the hell over TAM.....AA has been consistent on out flying their oneworld partners into their home stations lately...quite surprised the hometown oneworld carriers put up with it.....especially the LanTam group.

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8403 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
AA does not tolerate weak performing long-haul stations.

*cough* DEL *cough*


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8333 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
AA does not tolerate weak performing long-haul stations.

*cough* DEL *cough*

Route did just fine until Air India and Ethiad started fare wars, and it became extremely difficult to compete. ORDDEL even survived the 2008 fuel crisis - for a reason.



a.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17338 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8251 times:

Interesting that DFWGIG stays at 3/week.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2159 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8238 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Interesting that DFWGIG stays at 3/week.

Tragic is a better word I'd use to describe this, over interesting.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8091 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 9):

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Interesting that DFWGIG stays at 3/week.

Tragic is a better word I'd use to describe this, over interesting.

It was a winter-only seasonal service when it was launched 18 months ago. It's now year-round. Do you have any evidence of it's "tragic" performance?

DFWGIG isn't a route I'd expect to be very strong by any means, but there is nothing to show it's been "tragic."



a.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7963 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Interesting that DFWGIG stays at 3/week.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Tragic is a better word I'd use to describe this, over interesting.

Well, a tragic performance that makes AA boot a whole DFW-SCL flight in favour of DFW-GIG:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...d-then-unloaded-what-happened.html


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7878 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
ORDDEL even survived the 2008 fuel crisis - for a reason.

The $120+ oil was rather short lived. Not cancelling the route during 08-09 recession does not equate performing well.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Route did just fine until Air India and Ethiad started fare wars

Is EY a friend or an enemy now ? Does OZ and NH hold a grudge at SQ for walking all over them ?

And if AA were truly as "premium" of a brand as some allege, AirIndia (Ryanair, long haul edition) should not be a concern.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24820 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7678 times:

The DOT application is in.

AA seeks 17 new weekly frequencies for service changes starting October 1.

1) MIA-GIG transfer to fund 2nd JFK-GRU
Current 7 weekly frequencies assigned to MIA-GIG which are usable to serve any point in Brazil will be transferred to begin second daily JFK-GRU flight effective Oct 1st.
AA accordingly request 7 new frequencies to "backfill" in order to maintain current MIA-GIG flight.

2) MIA-REC & MIA-SSA
Request 3 additional frequencies to add to the current 7 weekly used to operate round-robin service.
AA proposes to separate Recife and San Salvador flights, with 5 weekly nonstops in each market utilizing B757 equipment effective November 15th.

3) MIA-GIG Part 2
Request 7 additional frequencies, to allow AA to launch a 2nd daily MIA-GIG service using B767-300 equipment effective December 15th.

Proposed schedules are:

2nd JFK-GRU
AA987 JFK-GRU 1000-2045 77W
AA958 GRU-JFK 0740-1635 77W

New stand alone MIA-REC
AA292 MIA-REC 2320-0820 757
AA293 REC-MIA 1035-1705 757

New stand alone MIA-SSA
AA977 MIA-SSA 2325-1025 757
AA968 SSA-MIA 1145-1645 757

2nd MIA-GIG
AA901 MIA-GIG 2025-0800 763
AA990 GIG-MIA 2315-0515 763


OST-2012-TBA



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7577 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
The $120+ oil was rather short lived. Not cancelling the route during 08-09 recession does not equate performing well.

A route lasting seven years does. You think its a coincidence that what AA ran out of the market just as low-cost structure competition arrived? Nope.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
Is EY a friend or an enemy now ?

EY and AA have no anti-trust, so I'm not sure what you are trying to imply. Are you saying EY and AA should break the law and cooperate on Chicago-India?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
And if AA were truly as "premium" of a brand as some allege, AirIndia (Ryanair, long haul edition) should not be a concern.

That logic applies to premium markets. There is nothing premium about Chicago-India. When a state-ran airline is dumping fares like Air India does, it becomes difficult to make a profit. But Air India has the government backing it up.



a.
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2159 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7529 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
It was a winter-only seasonal service when it was launched 18 months ago. It's now year-round. Do you have any evidence of it's "tragic" performance?

DFWGIG isn't a route I'd expect to be very strong by any means, but there is nothing to show it's been "tragic."

I don't believe it was winter-only service at the time of the announcement.

And by tragic, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't alleging that it was a poor performer, but I was hopeful that it would eventually increase in frequency by this time, considering that this is GIG we're talking about here.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
And if AA were truly as "premium" of a brand as some allege, AirIndia (Ryanair, long haul edition) should not be a concern.

Have you even flown AI before??? Their long-haul product, even in Y, is far superior to every single US carrier long-haul, and most European carriers.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Route did just fine until Air India and Ethiad started fare wars, and it became extremely difficult to compete. ORDDEL even survived the 2008 fuel crisis - for a reason.

It still perplexes me why everybody on a.net is so obsessed with the AA ORDDEL cancellation. The nonstop US-India environment, plain and simple, is simply too low-yielding and price conscious to remain viable. AA could not sustain the premium demand on the flight but then again, neither could DL nor AC, for the exact same reasons.

I am flying EWRDEL in August and noticed how UA has kept this route in a 2-class config (and sadly, without Y+) and I wonder if most likely it is because Delhi and Mumbai do not warrant an aircraft with an F cabin.

Regardless, AI should not be credited with driving AA out, given that they themselves are bleeding money on the same route. Rather, the fact that AI is GOVERNMENT PROPPED ought to be attributed for their sole survival on all of their US-India routes.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/blo...ending-chicago-delhi-service-65956
.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7279 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
It was a winter-only seasonal service when it was launched 18 months ago. It's now year-round. Do you have any evidence of it's "tragic" performance?

DFWGIG isn't a route I'd expect to be very strong by any means, but there is nothing to show it's been "tragic."

I don't believe it was winter-only service at the time of the announcement.

It was, although I believe the confusion comes that it was "double" seasonal, as in it did not operate in the shoulder seasons around April/May/early June and September/October/early November.



a.
User currently offlineCNForever From Brazil, joined Apr 2011, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7274 times:

Can someone clarify to me if CNF and BSB flights to MIA will become daily after peak season? Or it is jus a seasonal increase?

Tks


User currently offlineflyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1738 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7205 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Proposed schedules are:

2nd JFK-GRU
AA987 JFK-GRU 1000-2045 77W
AA958 GRU-JFK 0740-1635 77W

Interesting that this flight will be a 777W. Will it overnight at JFK, or is there another city that will get a 777W service?
This also connects nicely, to HND.



727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32603 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7141 times:

Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 20):
Interesting that this flight will be a 777W. Will it overnight at JFK, or is there another city that will get a 777W service?

The plane operating this route would otherwise be sitting on the ground all day at GRU. So it could be the 77W from DFWGRU redeye, for example.

However, the application states 772 in one place and 77W in the other, so too early to tell.

Quoting CNForever (Reply 19):
Can someone clarify to me if CNF and BSB flights to MIA will become daily after peak season? Or it is jus a seasonal increase?

Reduced again in the fall to 3w CNF/5w BSB; back to daily for the winter.

[Edited 2012-05-16 16:01:56]


a.
User currently offlineNeo From Brazil, joined Jan 2001, 671 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7107 times:

Quoting flyguy1 (Reply 20):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Proposed schedules are:

2nd JFK-GRU
AA987 JFK-GRU 1000-2045 77W
AA958 GRU-JFK 0740-1635 77W

Interesting that this flight will be a 777W. Will it overnight at JFK, or is there another city that will get a 777W service?
This also connects nicely, to HND

A bit strange putting the 77W on the daylight flight... specially with such an early depart on the GRU-JFK leg. I would assume that AA would use the 77W on the redeye.

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6764 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
Reduced again in the fall to 3w CNF/5w BSB; back to daily for the winter.

Interesting to see that CNF is far more seasonal than BSB. How long does the reduction last in the fall months?


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8280 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4857 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
2nd JFK-GRU
AA987 JFK-GRU 1000-2045 77W
AA958 GRU-JFK 0740-1635 77W

Are all JFK to GRU now 77W ?


User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4838 times:

So how many 77W will AA have by october?

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15):
Have you even flown AI before??? Their long-haul product, even in Y, is far superior to every single US carrier long-haul, and most European carriers.

That's the best laugh I've had in a while. Long-haul Y hard product is rated only 2 or 3 star at Skytrax, depending on category (and ranks very poorly on "Washroom Cleanliness" across F/J/Y) :

http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/AI.htm

There's a reason StarAlliance wants to throw them under the bus, and EK is eating their lunch not because of fare wars.

The only Indian-based airline with an acceptable on-board product (that's still flying) is 9W. But if you wanna choose AI over COdbaUA, BA, LX, then be my guest.


25 IrishAyes : I got an even bigger laugh when you used SkyTrax to support your position. If you had any clue what you're talking about, or have even bothered to ke
26 AA767400 : None. First one will be in November 2012. So, all this talk of any of these flights in October being a 77W are wrong.
27 LipeGIG : I just think AA took too long to make some of the additions. And now, JJ is able to react even more: 4 77W to replace 4 A332 on GRU-JFK/MIA GIG-JFK to
28 incitatus : On pretty much every measure AA is ahead of JJ, not to mention the pseudo-business-class cabin of JJ's 767s. The best read from AA's and JJ's changes
29 SJOtoLIR : It's interesting how the MIA-REC market has worked totally different as compared with ATL-REC, based on the sustainability of the routes. The northea
30 Byrdluvs747 : With all these frequencies between AA and JJ, will it make ATI impossible given the lack of US flight competition from other Brazilian carriers?
31 elmothehobo : In order for American carriers to apply for anti-trust immunity, their partner must be based in a country with which the United States maintains an o
32 commavia : The dominance between AA and TAM will virtually guarantee that they are going to be required to make at least some concessions if they want to get an
33 miaami : Does anyone know when we can expect an announcement from LANTAM regarding which alliance they will be choosing?
34 jfk777 : With Delta's recent year long effort on MIA to LHR proving a dud why would it want to do Miami-GRU against a similar situation of two strong incumben
35 LipeGIG : JJ uses now: Almost 8 A332 3 B763 on US-Brazil routes Will use 4 B77W, 8 A332 and 2 or 3 B763. GIG and GRU will be all A332/B77W AA uses 6 B772, 8 B7
36 tonytifao : Don't forget AA MIA-MAO with 738
37 LipeGIG : I'm trying to understand recent moves by JJ and AA. AA is advancing over markets consolidated by JJ while JJ is looking to grow at FRA and CDG while
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA To Expand MIA Hub posted Tue Mar 23 2004 07:37:58 by DB777
AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR posted Wed Sep 14 2011 09:04:34 by N62NA
AA Eagle To Launch MIA-GNV This Fall posted Sat Jun 26 2010 16:01:13 by FutureUScapt
AA with 777 on MIA-JFK - Summer 2010 posted Sun Jan 31 2010 16:45:12 by Flyguy1
AA Diversion To EWR From JFK posted Mon Dec 10 2007 12:26:55 by Apodino
AA Eagle To Fly MIA-TLH posted Sat Nov 17 2007 18:22:04 by AJMIA
AA's Response To B6 SJC-JFK/BOS posted Thu Mar 11 2004 21:33:52 by Mikesairways
DL To Expand At JFK posted Thu Jan 29 2004 13:26:45 by Nycfuturepilot
AA International To Jetblue Connection @ JFK posted Wed Jun 25 2003 19:04:28 by Ahlfors
Iberia To Expand MIA Hub posted Sun Apr 8 2001 17:09:32 by Mah4546
AA Eagle To Launch MIA-GNV This Fall posted Sat Jun 26 2010 16:01:13 by FutureUScapt
AA with 777 on MIA-JFK - Summer 2010 posted Sun Jan 31 2010 16:45:12 by Flyguy1
AA Diversion To EWR From JFK posted Mon Dec 10 2007 12:26:55 by Apodino
AA Eagle To Fly MIA-TLH posted Sat Nov 17 2007 18:22:04 by AJMIA
AA's Response To B6 SJC-JFK/BOS posted Thu Mar 11 2004 21:33:52 by Mikesairways
DL To Expand At JFK posted Thu Jan 29 2004 13:26:45 by Nycfuturepilot
AA International To Jetblue Connection @ JFK posted Wed Jun 25 2003 19:04:28 by Ahlfors
AA Eagle To Launch MIA-GNV This Fall posted Sat Jun 26 2010 16:01:13 by FutureUScapt
AA with 777 on MIA-JFK - Summer 2010 posted Sun Jan 31 2010 16:45:12 by Flyguy1
AA Diversion To EWR From JFK posted Mon Dec 10 2007 12:26:55 by Apodino
AA Eagle To Fly MIA-TLH posted Sat Nov 17 2007 18:22:04 by AJMIA
AA's Response To B6 SJC-JFK/BOS posted Thu Mar 11 2004 21:33:52 by Mikesairways
DL To Expand At JFK posted Thu Jan 29 2004 13:26:45 by Nycfuturepilot
AA International To Jetblue Connection @ JFK posted Wed Jun 25 2003 19:04:28 by Ahlfors