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OAG Changes 5/18/2012: AA/B6/DL/HA/UA/WN/YV  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 9097 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

AA is having a crew shortage, I'm guessing that's why the peak reducions.
AA DFW-JAC JAN 0>0.7
AA DFW-MEX JUN 6>5
AA DFW-MSP JUN 6>5
AA DFW-PHX JUN 8>7
AA DFW-SNA JUN 10>9
AA DFW-TUS JUN 7>6
AA LAX-BNA JUN 1.6>1.0
AA LAX-DFW JUN 19>18
AA LAX-YYZ JUN 1.6>1.0
AA MIA-KIN JUN 4>3
AA ORD-AUS JUN 4>3
AA ORD-DFW JUN 19>18
AA ORD-LGA JUN 17>16
AA ORD-RDU JUN 5>4
AA ORD-SFO JUN 7>6
SJU edges closer to oblivion.
AA SJU-DOM AUG 1.5>1.8
AA SJU-EIS SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
AA SJU-PUJ SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.5
AA SJU-SDQ SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
AA SJU-SKB SEP 0.9>1.0 OCT 0.8>1.0 NOV 0.9>1.0 DEC 0.9>1.0 JAN 0.8>1.0
AA SJU-STT SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
AA SJU-STX SEP 3>1.0 OCT 3>1.0 NOV 3>1.9
AA STT-SJU SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
AA STX-SJU SEP 3>1.0 OCT 3>1.0 NOV 3>1.9

*AB LAX-DUS NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.4
*AB MIA-DUS NOV 0.6>0.8 DEC 0.6>0.9 JAN 0.5>0.7

They change this weekly...
*AM FAT-GDL JUL 0.8>1.0 SEP 0.0>0.5 OCT 0>0.4 NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.5
AM MCO-MEX JUN 1.8>2
*AM MIA-CUN JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0
AM ORD-MEX JUL 1.6>2
AM SAT-MTY JUL 0.6>0.9 AUG 0.5>0.8

AR MIA-EZE OCT 0.2>1.0 NOV 0.1>1.0 DEC 0.2>1.0 JAN 0.1>1.0

AS LAX-SUN SEP 0.8>0.5
AS SEA-SUN SEP 0.8>0.5

B6 BOS-AUA OCT 0.7>1.0
B6 BOS-SDQ OCT 0.8>1.0
B6 BOS-STI SEP 0.4>0.5
*B6 BOS-STT SEP 0.1>0.0 OCT 0.9>0.2
B6 JAX-SJU SEP 1.0>0.8 OCT 1.0>0.9
B6 JFK-AUS SEP 2.0>3 OCT 2>3
B6 JFK-LIR SEP 0.5>0.7 OCT 0.4>0.7
B6 JFK-MBJ SEP 1.1>1.3
B6 JFK-NAS OCT 1.7>1.9
B6 JFK-PUJ OCT 1.1>1.4
B6 JFK-UVF SEP 0.5>0.8 OCT 0.4>0.6
B6 LGB-PDX OCT 4>3
B6 MCO-JFK SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
B6 MCO-PSE OCT 1.0>0.9
B6 MCO-SDQ OCT 1.0>0.9
B6 TPA-SJU OCT 1.7>1.5

DL ATL-SAV SEP 10>11 OCT 10>11
Slots? First DTW, then JFK, now ATL gets cut.
*DL ATL-SNA SEP 5>4 OCT 5>3 NOV 5>3 DEC 5>3 JAN 5>3
DL BOS-RDU AUG 5>6 SEP 5>7 OCT 5>7 NOV 5>7 DEC 4>6 JAN 5>7
*DL CVG-SYR AUG 0.9>0.4 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0
*DL DTW-CDG OCT 0.8>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0
*DL DTW-ICN SEP 0.7>0.9 OCT 0.7>0.9 NOV 0.7>1.0 DEC 0.7>1.0 JAN 0.7>0.9
*DL HNL-FUK SEP 0.8>0.9 OCT 0>0.7 NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>0.8 JAN 0>0.9
DL JFK-AUA DEC 0.2>0.6 JAN 0.1>1.0
DL JFK-MBJ DEC 0.1>0.5 JAN 0.1>1.0
DL LGA-RDU SEP 7>8 OCT 8>9 NOV 8>9 DEC 8>9 JAN 8>9
Thin for hub to former hub. MSP had been added back, but it is now cut again.
*DL MEM-DTW SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3
*DL MEM-MSP SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3
DL MOT-MSP SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7 JAN 8>7
DL MSN-MSP SEP 5>6 OCT 5>6 NOV 5>6 DEC 5>6 JAN 5>6

F9 ORD-MBJ OCT 0>0.1

*HA HNL-CTS NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.5
*HA LAX-OGG AUG 0.6>0.8 SEP 0>0.4 OCT 0>0.4

KE GUM-ICN NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2
*KE ROR-ICN NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3

KS BOS-PBG JUN 1.4>0.9

*MW HNL-JHM JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2
MW HNL-MKK JUL 5>7 AUG 5>7 SEP 5>7 OCT 5>7 NOV 5>7 DEC 5>7 JAN 5>7
MW JHM-HNL JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2
MW KOA-OGG JUN 11>10
MW LNY-HNL JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2
*MW LNY-MKK JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
MW LNY-OGG JUL 1.7>2 AUG 1.7>2 SEP 1.7>2 OCT 1.7>2 NOV 1.7>2 DEC 1.7>2 JAN 1.7>2
MW MKK-HNL JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7 SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7 JAN 6>7
MW MKK-OGG JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5
MW OGG-LNY JUL 1.7>2 AUG 1.7>2 SEP 1.7>2 OCT 1.7>2 NOV 1.7>2 DEC 1.7>2 JAN 1.7>2
MW OGG-MKK JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5

NK MCO-SJU AUG 1.0>0.6 SEP 0.1>0

Corrects mis-filed code shares
OZ CLT-SEA SEP 0.8>0
OZ CMH-ORD NOV 0.2>0.0 DEC 0.3>0.1
OZ LAX-PHL SEP 1.0>0
OZ PHL-SEA SEP 1.0>0
OZ SPN-ICN NOV 1.6>2 DEC 1.6>2 JAN 1.6>2

*P7 ROR-TPE JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.6 NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.5

PD MYR-YTZ SEP 0>0.2 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3

SY DFW-CUN DEC 0.3>0.6 JAN 0>0.5
SY LAS-MSP JAN 0.3>1.4
SY MSP-CUN DEC 0.1>0.4 JAN 0>1.0
SY MSP-CZM JAN 0>0.3
SY MSP-HUX JAN 0>0.1
SY MSP-LIR JAN 0>0.1
SY MSP-MBJ JAN 0>0.4
SY MSP-PUJ JAN 0>0.3
SY MSP-PVR DEC 0.1>0.2 JAN 0>0.5
SY MSP-SJD JAN 0>0.2
SY MSP-SJU JAN 0>0.1
SY MSP-SXM JAN 0>0.1
SY MSP-ZIH JAN 0>0.2

*TA ORD-SAL JUN 0.3>0.2 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0 NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.3>0

This has been blinking on and off
TCX LAS-MAN JUN 0.1>0 AUG 0.2>0 SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.2>0 NOV 0.1>0 DEC 0.1>0 JAN 0.2>0
TCX SFB-GLA JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.2>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0 NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.3>0
TCX SFB-LGW JUN 0.2>0 AUG 0.1>0
TCX SFB-MAN JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.1>0 AUG 0.2>0 SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.1>0 NOV 0.2>0 DEC 0.1>0 JAN 0.1>0

UA DEN-ICT SEP 4>5
UA DEN-OKC SEP 4>5
UA DEN-TUL SEP 4>5
Corrects last week's apprent error
*UA EWR-HKG JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0.6>1.0
UA EWR-SXM JAN 0.4>1.2
*UA HNL-SNA JUL 0.8>0
UA IAD-BKW AUG 0.5>0.1
UA IAH-HRL JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
UA IAH-PVR AUG 1.2>1.4
UA IAH-SJD AUG 1.9>3
UA IAH-YEG AUG 1.1>1.6
*UA LAX-ELP AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
UA ORD-LIR JAN 0>0.1
UA ORD-PVR DEC 0.2>0.4
Welcoming VX back to the market
*UA SFO-PSP OCT 3>5 NOV 3>5 DEC 3>5 JAN 3>5

Did we know about the rest of these? I had only seen BNA-BOS.
*WN BNA-BOS SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
*WN BOS-PHX AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
*WN FLL-PHX AUG 0.9>0.4 SEP 0.8>0
*WN JAX-LAS AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0.0
*WN LAS-MHT AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
WN LAS-SJC OCT 8>9
WN OAK-SAN SEP 12>11 OCT 12>11
WN PHX-SJC SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5

WS LAS-YEG SEP 1.8>1.7
WS LAS-YXU NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.3>0

YV HNL-KOA JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4 SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4
YV HNL-LIH JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7 SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7 JAN 6>7
*YV HNL-LNY JUN 0.7>0 JUL 0.7>0 AUG 0.7>0 SEP 0.7>0
YV HNL-OGG JUL 8>7 AUG 8>7 SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7 JAN 8>7
YV KOA-HNL JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4 SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4
*YV KOA-OGG JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
YV LIH-HNL JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7 SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7 JAN 6>7
YV OGG-HNL JUL 8>7 AUG 8>7 SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7 JAN 8>7
YV OGG-KOA JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

*ZK CYS-PIR JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.9 AUG 0>0.8 SEP 0>0.9 OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>0.9 JAN 0>0.9
ZK DEN-PIR JUN 1.7>1.0 JUL 1.7>1.0 AUG 1.7>1.0 SEP 1.7>1.0 OCT 1.7>1.0 NOV 1.7>1.0 DEC 1.7>1.0 JAN 1.7>1.0
ZK FOD-MSP JUL 3>1.5

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineaer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8958 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*TA ORD-SAL JUN 0.3>0.2 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0 NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.3>0

Is TA's GUA-ORD changing?



nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8924 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*WN BOS-PHX AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Yet another US dominated route that WN pulls out of...you'd think that with MHT getting cut a year(or so?) ago they'd make BOS work but i guess not. This will make US and B6 happy though.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8686 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL ATL-SNA SEP 5>4 OCT 5>3 NOV 5>3 DEC 5>3 JAN 5>3

FWIW its going from 5x 73W(620 seats) to 552 seats (all 757) so small decrease in seats. The question is will the slots go away or with they do something with them. I believe the ex CVG slots(also DTW/JFK/LAS) went back to the pool



yep.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8357 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-SYR AUG 0.9>0.4 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0

Not surprised one bit. More drawback.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-CDG OCT 0.8>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

I'm surprised this wasn't daily out of DTW.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Corrects mis-filed code shares

That's what I thought.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*P7 ROR-TPE JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.6 NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.5

Um...what is this filed as? what airline is this?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*WN BOS-PHX AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

hm, perhaps B6 picking up the slot? That's weird to drop this flight coming into snowbird season.


Thanks for the work again, E. sounds like a busy week.



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User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8243 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
hm, perhaps B6 picking up the slot? That's weird to drop this flight coming into snowbird season.

There isnt a slot. Anyone can fly it anytime. BOS snowbirds tend to go directly south, not so much west/southwest come winter time.,


User currently offlineKLASM83 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 633 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8201 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL MOT-MSP SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7 JAN 8>7

With the oil boom, I am unsurprised, but I did not realized DL had 8 dailies on this route. Oh, (formally) sleepy Minot. DIK and ISN are ripe for much expansion, as well as BIS.

Thanks for these updates as always, enilria!



Don't you want to hang out and waste your life with us?
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7763 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*WN BOS-PHX AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Yet another US dominated route that WN pulls out of...you'd think that with MHT getting cut a year(or so?) ago they'd make BOS work but i guess not. This will make US and B6 happy though.

It's weird because it seems like B6 isn't doing much better in BOS than they did in PHL.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
FWIW its going from 5x 73W(620 seats) to 552 seats (all 757) so small decrease in seats. The question is will the slots go away or with they do something with them. I believe the ex CVG slots(also DTW/JFK/LAS) went back to the pool

Yes, they returned those. Perhaps with the LAX buildup they are showing less love to SNA.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
I'm surprised this wasn't daily out of DTW.

As of today they don't fly it at all. It restarts this Summer after a several year absence.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
hm, perhaps B6 picking up the slot? That's weird to drop this flight coming into snowbird season.

Well, it might still be back in Nov and Dec.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7745 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):

That's a lot of hours going back into the 73W rotation. What are they doing with the frames?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7539 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
It's weird because it seems like B6 isn't doing much better in BOS than they did in PHL.

What do you mean? They never served PHL so I assume you mean PHX. Obviously they are doing gangbusters in BOS, do you mean the route in general?



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently onlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7528 times:

I think he meant WN, not B6.

User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7495 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*WN FLL-PHX AUG 0.9>0.4 SEP 0.8>0
*WN JAX-LAS AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0.0
*WN LAS-MHT AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Aren't these are seasonal every year.


Rumor out on the line has it that DCA and EYW along with some additional LGA flying is moving from FL to WN sooner rather than later...



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7385 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA LAX-ELP AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

More cuts. Pretty soon it'll be hard to call LAX a hub. This was just an RJ anyway but apparently now you have to connect ot get anywhere out of LAX.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA DEN-ICT SEP 4>5
UA DEN-OKC SEP 4>5
UA DEN-TUL SEP 4>5

Hold the death march--UA adding to DEN?


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7352 times:

Quoting boilerla (Reply 12):
Hold the death march--UA adding to DEN?

Why would they pull out? DEN has so much potential.



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User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6842 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-SYR AUG 0.9>0.4 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0
*DL DTW-CDG OCT 0.8>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0
*DL DTW-ICN SEP 0.7>0.9 OCT 0.7>0.9 NOV 0.7>1.0 DEC 0.7>1.0 JAN 0.7>0.9

CVG-SYR is being replaced by MSP-SYR

They finally loaded the year-round DL DTW-CDG flight now.

On DTW-ICN it looks like they haded back some of the seasonal reduced flights when this flight has typically been less than daily. DL has indicated they are seeing stronger demand over the Pacific and this looks to be the most they've flown on DTW-ICN during the winter.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-SYR AUG 0.9>0.4 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0

Not surprised one bit. More drawback.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-CDG OCT 0.8>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

I'm surprised this wasn't daily out of DTW.

NW flew DTW-CDG for many years, however they suspended the route for brief periods during the winter months (pre-Skyteam like 2002-2003 ish).

As a part of the DL-AF-KL joint venture, AF took over the daily DTW-CDG flight and has flown it now for a few years.
Starting this summer DL is starting a second flight in the market, using their own metal. It was initially only going to be flown for the summer, but DL recently announced they are going to keep this flight year-round. This increase reflects that DL will offer this second daily flight year-round.


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6398 times:

Quoting boilerla (Reply 12):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA DEN-ICT SEP 4>5
UA DEN-OKC SEP 4>5
UA DEN-TUL SEP 4>5


Hold the death march--UA adding to DEN?



Keep in mind that these new additions are to cities in DEN's area of strength (ie. Rocky Mountain / Great Plains). All three cities added are west of both ORD & IAH. Therefore, DEN is the best viable option as a hub when traveling from the west to ICT, OKC, TUL. Had the adds been to cities east of ORD / IAH, then I would have been surprised.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 2):
Yet another US dominated route that WN pulls out of...
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 11):
Aren't these are seasonal every year.


WN drops both BOS & FLL out of PHX. I am not sure if the FLL route is seasonal, but WN seems to having difficulties on some of their long eastern routes from PHX.

PHX - New England has especially been hit hard over the years. MHT, PVD, and now BOS have all failed from PHX.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA is having a crew shortage, I'm guessing that's why the peak reducions.

True, and I doubt even the most ardent road warriors will miss the redundant frequencies on routes like ORD-LGA and DFW-LAX. But it is interesting to see routes like ORD-AUS and LAX-YYZ reduced, where the change is relatively apparent, as oppose to temporarily cutting much higher frequency stuff like (2x daily) ORD-YYZ or (2x daily) DFW-AUS. At least no long haul international stuff has been impacted.. Yet.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
SJU edges closer to oblivion.

LOL, the writing has been on the wall for SJU since 2008. They've had years to prepare for the full de-hubbing by AA, which happened in April of last year for mainline and will be complete by March of next year for Eagle. I'd say SJU is much better off with all the new LCC service they have recently gained, including the continued expansion by FL after the WN merger (FLL-SJU starts later this month) and of course B6, which just got a scarce beyond-perimeter slot to offer nonstop DCA-SJU service. B6 has not only restored much of the lost AA capacity to key Northeast, Florida, and Caribbean markets but also pioneered new routes, like nonstop links to JAX and PBI.

I seriously doubt many people will miss the SJU transit when headed to and from Hispaniola or the Lesser Antilles. Give me a connection through the fantastic, state of the art AA facilities at JFK or MIA instead of decrepit SJU any day. Not to mention the comfort of a full-size jet for the entire trip, instead of having to endure a cramped, noisy prop for half of it. The marked increase in nonstop service between JFK/MIA and almost all of AA's Lesser Antilles markets has greatly diminished the need for a SJU hub. I can only imagine that most of the SJU Eagle flights catered not to O&D (island locals) but tourists and/or VFR traffic connecting to/from the U.S. mainland. With relatively few mainline flights left to feed the Eagle network, I'm surprised the remaining Eagle flights lasted even this long. Airlines like B6, LI, 7I (Insel Air) and 9K (Cape Air) can continue to fill the void between SJU and other Caribbean markets as necessary. Perhaps BW could be interested in resuming SJU service.

The real question is what becomes of the aging AA terminal (Terminal D/Terminal E). Once B6 moves its 30+ daily jet flights over to Terminal A, there should be plenty of room in Terminal C for AA. I can't imagine there would be any more need/desire for an exclusive AA terminal once the Eagle flights are all gone.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
They change this weekly...
*AM FAT-GDL JUL 0.8>1.0 SEP 0.0>0.5 OCT 0>0.4 NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.5

It would be more surprising if a week went by in which AM and/or Y4 did NOT tinker with their FAT-GDL flights  .

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AM MIA-CUN JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0

Along with their GDL-U.S. flights, AM loves to be inconsistent with their CUN-U.S. offerings. Here one day, gone the next, and then back again? It has been said on here many times that American travelers avoid Mexican airlines like the plague when headed to the Mexican beach resorts. AM offers better service than most of its American peers, but will never win over many Americans with this sporadic mentality...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AR MIA-EZE OCT 0.2>1.0 NOV 0.1>1.0 DEC 0.2>1.0 JAN 0.1>1.0

So last week's cut was probably just a glitch. I wonder when, or should I say if, we'll see AR start those MIA-CCS-EZE flights.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

B6 BOS-AUA OCT 0.7>1.0
B6 BOS-SDQ OCT 0.8>1.0
B6 BOS-STI SEP 0.4>0.5
*B6 BOS-STT SEP 0.1>0.0 OCT 0.9>0.2

Actually not surprising at all. Looks like they are merely shifting BOS-Caribbean capacity away from the more seasonal tourist market of STT to VFR-heavy Dominican markets that are not nearly as prone to drops in demand when the kids are back in school.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Slots? First DTW, then JFK, now ATL gets cut.
*DL ATL-SNA SEP 5>4 OCT 5>3 NOV 5>3 DEC 5>3 JAN 5>3

LOL, all of the legacies (AS, AA, DL, UA, US) have far more SNA "slots" than they know what to do with - dating back to the 90s when they snatched them all up in futile attempts to keep WN at bay. This will give WN or somebody else yet another opportunity to add/expand from SNA, further depressing yields at the airport; thereby continuing the cycle of further legacy airline cuts, more LCC flights at SNA down the line.

I wonder if this has anything to do with FL/WN's new SNA flights - even though they aren't offering nonstop ATL-SNA, could the one-stops (providing the aircraft and crews for the new SNA-Mexico flights) be negatively affecting DL? Maybe we could see WN add nonstop ATL-SNA in the future?

It really is too bad that DL is giving up these slots, as I thought the 73G-equipped carrier might be poised to fill the AQ/UA void to Hawaii. Then again, if UA can't make the flights work, I doubt an airline with a very spotty track record in Greater LA could pull it off...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-SYR AUG 0.9>0.4 SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0

I can't imagine there is much O&D on a route like this, so I'm not surprised to see it cut. There's really only a few routes left from CVG that don't seem to make much sense - BNA, GRR, GSO, GSP, MDT, MSN, OMA, PIT, and RIC. Otherwise, based on my uneducated opinion, everything else they are doing from CVG would seem to be big enough and far enough away to make sense. I'm almost starting to think that DL may just have succeeded in "right-sizing" the CVG operation.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-CDG OCT 0.8>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

I realize they have full ATI/JV with AF/KL, but it still amazes me that there was absolutely no DL metal on a major hub-hub route like this.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL HNL-FUK SEP 0.8>0.9 OCT 0>0.7 NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>0.8 JAN 0>0.9

I realize that DL is probably none too thrilled by HA's unprecedented foray into Japan, but I can't imagine that FUK is ready to support two regularly scheduled year-round flights to HNL on foreign airlines when even JL couldn't make it work after 2005 - long before the current global recession and high fuel prices ensued. I'm sure something will have to give, and I can only think that lower cost HA is far more committed to (and much better poised to succeed on) the route than DL.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL JFK-AUA DEC 0.2>0.6 JAN 0.1>1.0
DL JFK-MBJ DEC 0.1>0.5 JAN 0.1>1.0

A good way to park some excess JFK slots, no doubt.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Thin for hub to former hub. MSP had been added back, but it is now cut again.
*DL MEM-DTW SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3
*DL MEM-MSP SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3

Well, there isn't much for folks in MSP/DTW to connect to through MEM anymore. I can't imagine there is very much O&D between Memphis and either Detroit or the Twin Cities. This is a much better indication of actual demand, as oppose to the days when NW was carrying tons of connecting traffic on these routes. From a geographical standpoint, it probably makes more sense for DL to route almost every Memphian via ATL. MSP and DTW are quite out of the way for those headed to, oh I don't know, DEN, LAS, RDU, or BWI, to name a few  .

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 ORD-MBJ OCT 0>0.1

I'm intrigued by all these new F9 Apple Vacation flights. How do they work, exactly? Are these services distinctly different from regular F9 flights (i.e. different flight numbers, different counters/gates at mutual airports like PHL, different fees/policies), or are they essentially just regular p2p flights akin to their longstanding SLC-CUN service?

ORD is particularly interesting because Chicago is becoming an official F9 crew base when MKE is closed. I doubt they would be doing that if they just wanted to keep doing a handful of low frequency charters out of ORD and a few daily flights to DEN from MDW. I would think the first thing to do would be to consolidate everything at one airport or the other - presumably ORD, given that it has much more expansive FIS facilities than MDW. Even the CHI-DEN route would probably fare better from ORD than MDW, given that MDW-DEN is now a hub-hub route for WN. I definitely think F9 has its sights set on expansion from Chicago in the future.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*HA HNL-CTS NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.5

I wonder if we'll ever see HA add HNL-NGO or even HNL-NRT. It seems they are doing extremely well in the Japanese market!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*HA LAX-OGG AUG 0.6>0.8 SEP 0>0.4 OCT 0>0.4

Looks like the LAX-OGG route has exceeded expectations, with this extension beyond the busy summer tourist season. I would have expected as much, given that the only airlines left on LAX-OGG (UA, AA, and DL) are busy reducing gauge, frequency, and/or capacity to the Hawaiian market these days. I still wonder if AS will ever try LAX-Hawaii, as I would expect LAX-OGG to be their first such route. If they can compete effectively on stuff like LAX-YVR, LAX-SJD, and LAX-MEX, why not LAX-OGG/Hawaii?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
NK MCO-SJU AUG 1.0>0.6 SEP 0.1>0

Wow, has NK ceded this route to FL/WN and B6? I guess it's no big loss, since they can still offer easy connections via FLL.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

PD MYR-YTZ SEP 0>0.2 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3

Has this gone year-round? I had no idea the Grand Strand was so popular with Canadians...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*TA ORD-SAL JUN 0.3>0.2 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0 NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.3>0

Is that it for TA at ORD? I believe they dropped ORD-GUA last week? I'm not surprised, given that Chicago is a notoriously weak market to Latin America outside of Mexico and GRU. Let's hope this gives CM a chance to pull off its new PTY-ORD route.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Corrects last week's apprent error
*UA EWR-HKG JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0.6>1.0

Must have been an error. It worked all those years for CO, and is probably only doing better now that the airline can tap into PMUA's FF bases in NYC and Hong Kong.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA HNL-SNA JUL 0.8>0

It's too bad this didn't work out, but they can probably make more money sending the 73G down to Latin America or the Caribbean then on this. I imagine the good folks at SNA are scrambling to find a replacement carrier, but few airlines have ETOPS-equipped aircraft that can make it off the short (less than 6,000 ft) runway and carry a profitable load to Hawaii. I highly doubt AA, DL, or US would even bother trying the route after UA failed on it. AS and WN only have ETOPS capability on the 738, which would take too big of a payload hit from SNA to Hawaii. Even G4's 757s are probably too heavy, given the all-Y configuration. The airport may very well have to wait until the advent of the 737MAX and A32Xneo before another airline is willing or able to try Hawaii.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA LAX-ELP AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

Well well well, a victory for AA over UA at LAX. I would imagine their much stronger FF base in ELP played its part.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Did we know about the rest of these? I had only seen BNA-BOS.
*WN BNA-BOS SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
*WN BOS-PHX AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Yes, it was mentioned in the BNA-BOS thread that the addition came at the expense of BOS-PHX. This marks another victory for US over WN, although assuming B6 keeps it going then it is a triumph over WN for them as well.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*WN FLL-PHX AUG 0.9>0.4 SEP 0.8>0
*WN JAX-LAS AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0.0
*WN LAS-MHT AUG 1.0>0.4 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

I believe these are all seasonal routes, though I wonder how much longer WN will keep flying these type of long, thin routes nonstop given today's fuel prices and their own relatively high costs. Now that they have established seamless connectivity at places like BWI, MDW, DEN, STL, etc. there is little need to fly all the way from small Eastern and Southern markets to PHX and LAS, just so folks can reach the West Coast on one ticket/itinerary.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*YV HNL-LNY JUN 0.7>0 JUL 0.7>0 AUG 0.7>0 SEP 0.7>0
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*YV KOA-OGG JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

Retrenching to trunk routes? Maybe they are ready to drop out of the interisland market soon...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
MHT, PVD, and now BOS have all failed from PHX.

Unless there is a ton of O&D on those routes that I don't know about, I think it has quite a bit more to do with the buildup and associated connectivity available in DEN than it does PHX being a failure.

LAS-MHT/JAX are both seasonal that come and go every year.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6069 times:

Seems Houston-Edmonton is growing. Oil I presume.


“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently onlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6032 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
WN drops both BOS & FLL out of PHX. I am not sure if the FLL route is seasonal, but WN seems to having difficulties on some of their long eastern routes from PHX.

PHX - New England has especially been hit hard over the years. MHT, PVD, and now BOS have all failed from PHX.

Or WN might just prefer to put those planes on shorter stage lengths to maximize profit potential...then there is the seemingly preferential treatment of DEN over PHX and LAS. They might not have been bad performers, per se.


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 17):
Unless there is a ton of O&D on those routes that I don't know about, I think it has quite a bit more to do with the buildup and associated connectivity available in DEN than it does PHX being a failure.


Agree, and this is the reason why I think PHX did not work. DEN's geographic location provides for much better connectivity than PHX can, hence the reason why PHX did not work.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 8):
That's a lot of hours going back into the 73W rotation. What are they doing with the frames?

Could be using those slots on a new SNA route, or they could just do some short haul ATL routes with the 73Ws.



yep.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 21):
Could be using those slots on a new SNA route, or they could just do some short haul ATL routes with the 73Ws.

They'd be able to get quite a bit of domestic flying in if that's the case. ATL-SNA is blocked just under 5hrs and the return a little over 4 and they RON 2 a/c.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5788 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
Why would they pull out? DEN has so much potential.
Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
Keep in mind that these new additions are to cities in DEN's area of strength (ie. Rocky Mountain / Great Plains). All three cities added are west of both ORD & IAH. Therefore, DEN is the best viable option as a hub when traveling from the west to ICT, OKC, TUL. Had the adds been to cities east of ORD / IAH, then I would have been surprised.

Sorry, the sarcasm got lost in transit. I've never been convinced that DEN would die a slow death as some here suggest. For the reasons you suggest exactly.

It is interesting to ask the question of why now, since SEP is not exactly high season. I'm wondering if it's the deal that UA struck with DEN to lower costs.


User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5656 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL HNL-FUK SEP 0.8>0.9 OCT 0>0.7 NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>0.8 JAN 0>0.9

Wow, the route was supposed to be seasonal (like HNL-NGO) but it seems to be operating pretty much year round save for a few initial weeks without service here and there. Glad to see the Fukuoka route doing well despite competition from Hawaiian.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
I realize that DL is probably none too thrilled by HA's unprecedented foray into Japan, but I can't imagine that FUK is ready to support two regularly scheduled year-round flights to HNL on foreign airlines when even JL couldn't make it work after 2005 - long before the current global recession and high fuel prices ensued. I'm sure something will have to give, and I can only think that lower cost HA is far more committed to (and much better poised to succeed on) the route than DL.

Well, HNL-FUK used to support both Jalways and Northwest. DL was supposed to only operate it a few times a year but it seems to be going year round it seems, albeit non-daily. If anything, DL can have an easier job of filling planes by not flying daily like Hawaiian does. Also, FUK is now much better connected with the rest of southern Japan thanks to the new Shinkansen line down to Kagoshima. I have my doubts that DL would bother to load more flights if it was an awful performer... just look at the number of pulldowns for winter on the transatlantic market.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5595 posts, RR: 12
Reply 25, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5675 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*HA LAX-OGG AUG 0.6>0.8 SEP 0>0.4 OCT 0>0.4

Looks like HA is once again taking up residence in the LA-Maui market.

This will be very interesting to watch as other cx continue to enter the markets between California and Hawaii...

bb


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5225 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA SFO-PSP OCT 3>5 NOV 3>5 DEC 3>5 JAN 3>5

As a stranger from the Atlantic coast I've found PSP to be amazingly diverse and beautiful (even snow-capped mountains on 90 degree days). Since SFO is diverse in pretty much the same ways as PSP, I understand the increasing UAX service.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5595 posts, RR: 12
Reply 27, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 26):
As a stranger from the Atlantic coast I've found PSP to be amazingly diverse and beautiful (even snow-capped mountains on 90 degree days). Since SFO is diverse in pretty much the same ways as PSP, I understand the increasing UAX service

Plus VX is in the market seasonally now...

bb


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4959 times:

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 18):
Seems Houston-Edmonton is growing. Oil I presume.

There was an article in Routes Magazine a few months ago on edmonton Airport that quoted someone from UA. It specifically mentioned that UA was seeing a surge in traffic to Central America (GUA, LIR, IAH, SJO) via IAH.

Truly that doesn't surprise me....you go down to Roatan, it is full of people from YYC, YEG etc...all coming in on UA.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4108 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL BOS-RDU AUG 5>6 SEP 5>7 OCT 5>7 NOV 5>7 DEC 4>6 JAN 5>7

This one I actually find interesting. DL must fly a small plane on this one to compete with B6, I wonder what B6 thinks about this added capacity.



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User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 30, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4048 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 29):
This one I actually find interesting. DL must fly a small plane on this one to compete with B6, I wonder what B6 thinks about this added capacity.

DL is flying this route with all CR7s. They are more concerned about the RDU market than BOS.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 31, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

Quoting aer (Reply 1):
Is TA's GUA-ORD changing?

IIRC TA dropped that route last week. Looks like they are done at ORD, but that is hardly surprising. Chicago has never been able to support anything to Latin America beyond Mexico, GRU, and tourist markets like LIR and PUJ. There just isn't much VFR traffic between Chicago and Central America, and TA really doesn't offer much in the way of connections beyond SAL and particularly GUA besides the major Central American capitals. When serving Central America, ORD is simply too far north and east - you are overflying key O&D markets in Texas and Florida, and it's quite out of the way for those traveling between California and Central America. I bet they were relying on low-yielding connections to places like Toronto, Boston, New York, and D.C. to fill up the flights.

Hopefully CM will fare better with ORD. They do offer much greater connectivity beyond their hub, namely, one-stop access to virtually all major Central American and South American cities. CM might even make sense for those headed to Caribbean markets like AUA, POS, or HAV. Not to mention Panama's increasing popularity with American tourists and retirees. It certainly is a more popular destination for the average American than Guatemala or El Salvador!

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 2):

Yet another US dominated route that WN pulls out of...you'd think that with MHT getting cut a year(or so?) ago they'd make BOS work but i guess not. This will make US and B6 happy though.

LOL, you make it sound as if US has always triumphed over WN. At PHL we saw a resurgent US ultimately prevail over WN, forcing WN to scale back its operation, but we saw a similar story unfold with DL at SLC around the same time. It's not like US ran WN out of PHL; WN has retained a sizable operation with nonstop service to a decent number of key markets. Even after all the cuts, WN runs a substantially larger operation from PHL than it does from other legacy carrier fortress hubs (i.e. MSP, DTW, CLE, IAD).

Let's not forget that PHL was not the only battleground between WN and US. In the past, US completely dismantled the PSA network - much to the benefit of WN. They later de-hubbed BWI, giving WN the opportunity to establish a strong East Coast gateway there. The de-hubbing of PIT gave WN an opportunity to enter PIT. Most recently US de-hubbed LAS. At PHX, US has enjoyed victories like BOS while WN has enjoyed victories like OKC and RDU. It will be interesting to see what happens when WN officially enters CLT.

As for the cessation of MHT-PHX, that had a lot to do with the addition of MHT-DEN. MHT-DEN is a shorter stage length than MHT-PHX, yet DEN offers the exact same connectivity that PHX does. Cutting BOS-PHX and replacing it with a much shorter BOS-BNA flight is further proof that the high oil prices and sluggish economy are rendering many of the long, thin routes unviable. Short flights cost less to operate and often generate much higher revenue than longer flights that suffer from heavy competition.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
FWIW its going from 5x 73W(620 seats) to 552 seats (all 757) so small decrease in seats. The question is will the slots go away or with they do something with them. I believe the ex CVG slots(also DTW/JFK/LAS) went back to the pool

A very wise move. I think we'll see a lot more of this happening - airlines consolidating flights by using higher capacity aircraft. You burn a lot less fuel flying three bigger planes on this long route than five smaller ones, and frequency on a more leisure/VFR route like this isn't as important as business routes like ATL-ORD/BOS/DFW.

As for the SNA slots, I doubt DL will even attempt to hold onto them. They've already tried every conceivable thing from SNA, and seem to have reached the conclusion that they only want to serve SLC, MSP, and ATL. The slots will probably end up with WN or anyone else looking to add flights to SNA.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
hm, perhaps B6 picking up the slot? That's weird to drop this flight coming into snowbird season.


LOL, Arizona doesn't get many snowbirds from the East Coast. They get a lot of folks from the Midwest, Great Plains, and Rockies. Most of the folks fleeing BOS winters are headed to Florida or the Caribbean.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
It's weird because it seems like B6 isn't doing much better in BOS than they did in PHL.

I assume you mean WN, not B6. It really isn't fair to compare WN's 2009 addition of BOS with their 2004 addition of PHL. Flash back to 2004, when WN added PHL:

- the national economy was doing quite well
- oil prices were relatively low, especially for WN thanks to an aggressive fuel hedging strategy
- WN enjoyed immense cost advantages over legacy competitors like US
- US appeared to be on the brink of insolvency, potentially leaving a huge void at PHL

WN jumped into PHL when times were good, and they were hoping to capitalize on the downfall of the airport's hub carrier. We saw this happen again at DEN and MKE, when WN was trying to get in right when it seemed ailing hub carriers F9 and YX would go bust. Adding PHL was also a great way for WN to expand in the East Coast realm, where it was a weak airline as oppose to its strong presence throughout the Midwest, South, and West. PHL was a high fare fortress hub, and WN was once again seen as the white knight that liberated the market with its famous low fares and great service.

Flash forward 5 years to 2009, when WN added BOS:

- the nation and world were suffering from the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression
- oil prices were stubbornly high, and WN could no longer rely on fuel hedges
- resurgent legacy carriers had aggressively cut costs to effectively compete against WN
- BOS was a competitive market with ample low fare service in place, thanks to B6

WN jumped into BOS when times were very bad, and they knew that "the Southwest effect" had already happened when B6 entered the market. B6 was already extremely well established on key routes to Florida, so WN had to find other places to go. They started off with 5x daily MDW and 5x daily BWI, then proceeded to gradually add nonstops to PHL (since dropped), STL, DEN, and PHX (presumably ending in favor of new BNA service) as they established themselves. They found niche markets to serve with weak or absolutely no B6 competition, while they maintained their lock on the outlying MHT and PVD markets that had traditionally served Boston. All things considered, I'd say they're probably doing a lot better at BOS than PHL, where they were probably eating heavy losses to gain market share in their quest to drive US out of business.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 11):
Rumor out on the line has it that DCA and EYW along with some additional LGA flying is moving from FL to WN sooner rather than later...

EYW is a quick and easy transition just like DSM, no surprise there. We'll see Canyon Blue at DCA no later than September, as the DCA-AUS flights must start by then. I bet WN is waiting to see if it got the DCA-OKC slot before deciding how they want to open DCA. They will obviously do MDW-DCA, and surely they'll keep ATL-DCA, albeit at reduced frequency. The RSW, AUS, and OKC (if they get it) flights are tied to those markets and can't be shifted around. Will be interesting to see if they keep MKE-DCA, and if they decide to do anything else - STL, BNA, HOU, etc. I would expect DCA to look like this:

5x daily MDW
4x daily ATL
2x daily STL
1x daily RSW
1x daily AUS
1x daily OKC, if granted the authority

As for LGA, I think we could see WN add BNA, HOU, MCI, and RDU..



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 32, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
It's weird because it seems like B6 isn't doing much better in BOS than they did in PHL.

What do you mean? They never served PHL so I assume you mean PHX. Obviously they are doing gangbusters in BOS, do you mean the route in general?
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 10):
I think he meant WN, not B6.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 31):
WN jumped into BOS when times were very bad, and they knew that "the Southwest effect" had already happened when B6 entered the market.

Yes, my mistake. Should have been WN. If you look at the combined reduction of FL and WN at BOS in the last year. It's dramatic.
BWI 15>8
CAK 2>1
MCO 1>0
MDW 5>4
PHF 2>0
PHL 8>0

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 11):
Rumor out on the line has it that DCA and EYW along with some additional LGA flying is moving from FL to WN sooner rather than later...
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 31):
EYW is a quick and easy transition just like DSM, no surprise there. We'll see Canyon Blue at DCA no later than September,

Unless the code share happens they can't do it. ATL is key for both markets and they can't cutover ATL service to those markets to WN metal without losing all connections. So, it's gotta wait until the code share is ready. In DCA, they could make it a dual station, that is definite with the beyond perimeter award.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 12):
Hold the death march--UA adding to DEN?

For how long...

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
I seriously doubt many people will miss the SJU transit when headed to and from Hispaniola or the Lesser Antilles. Give me a connection through the fantastic, state of the art AA facilities at JFK or MIA instead of decrepit SJU any day.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
The real question is what becomes of the aging AA terminal (Terminal D/Terminal E). Once B6 moves its 30+ daily jet flights over to Terminal A, there should be plenty of room in Terminal C for AA. I can't imagine there would be any more need/desire for an exclusive AA terminal once the Eagle flights are all gone.

B6 will basically replace it from their shiny new terminal built for AA, but never opened until now.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
I wonder if this has anything to do with FL/WN's new SNA flights - even though they aren't offering nonstop ATL-SNA, could the one-stops (providing the aircraft and crews for the new SNA-Mexico flights) be negatively affecting DL? Maybe we could see WN add nonstop ATL-SNA in the future?

I think it is a result of DL's build-up of LAX. As they get bigger there I think it is marginalizing the value of SNA.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
There's really only a few routes left from CVG that don't seem to make much sense - BNA, GRR, GSO, GSP, MDT, MSN, OMA, PIT, and RIC.

Too bad, that's like half of the remaining routes! LOL

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
Well, there isn't much for folks in MSP/DTW to connect to through MEM anymore.

Typically when a hub is slowly closed, you see hub2hub increase as the local market is displaced from the former non-stops that have been terminated. This implies there never was a local market...so why was there ever a hub? I guess they can thank Southern Airways.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

PD MYR-YTZ SEP 0>0.2 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3

Has this gone year-round? I had no idea the Grand Strand was so popular with Canadians...

MYR has been doing some subsidy deals lately. Vision is an example. PD probably took a check for this.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 29):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL BOS-RDU AUG 5>6 SEP 5>7 OCT 5>7 NOV 5>7 DEC 4>6 JAN 5>7

This one I actually find interesting. DL must fly a small plane on this one to compete with B6, I wonder what B6 thinks about this added capacity.

I had missed that. Agreed. Two frequency moves are always interesting. Not sure the story behind it.


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