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DL's Long Term 757 Replacement Plan?  
User currently offlineSWALUVFA From United States of America, joined May 2002, 277 posts, RR: 5
Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9724 times:

Delta has around 155 B757-200s in its current fleet. What do you think the long term replacement plan is for the entire fleet of 155? Given the 100 B739s DL has on order, do you think it will be more B739s? Or possibly a large order of A321NEOs?

I personally would love to see a large A321NEO order as the a/c is more spacious and more similar to the B757 than the B739.

Thanks!

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5856 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9694 times:

Quoting SWALUVFA (Thread starter):
What do you think the long term replacement plan is for the entire fleet of 155?

739ER for the older standard domestic 757s.
737 MAX 9 or A321neo, yet to be determined, for the newer and ETOPS domestic 757s.
"Wait and see" for the international fleet, which has a good 15 years left in it.


User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6651 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9680 times:

I'd expect the 737-9 MAX to replace the remaining domestic 757s. Not sure about the international 757s since there is no replacement on the horizon.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9829 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9660 times:

Delta has not decided on the 737MAX or A320NEO models. They have not ordered either. I speculate it is more likely to go to the 737 based on the fact that they just ordered 739ERs, so they seem relatively committed to the 737NG. However other customers have flipped, so I would expect them to put out a competitive bid between the two and pick whichever model works best for them.

The 757s can be replaced by a range of 737MAX or A320NEO models. Airplanes aren't replaced one for one either.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1642 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9625 times:

Part of that I think will be dictated by Boeing's recently discussed possible new narrowbody/757 replacement (i.e., not just expanding and tweaking the 737MAX). That would be a game-changer. But sans that, we'll probably see 739s and 739MAXs replacing the 757s on all but the routes where the 757 is absolutely essential. As 739s come on property, the eldest and most troublesome frames will be parked, and the best ones will progressively shift to international duties and whatever domestic routes they are essential for. AFAIK both the 739MAX and A321NEO will still fall short of the 757's top end performance, so there won't be a complete retirement for the forseeable future unless Boeing produces that direct 757 replacement, or we some hot-rod version of either that would bridge the gap.

EDIT: apologies about the redundant comments; my browser stalled there while I was submitting the post.

[Edited 2012-05-17 11:16:11]

User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9477 times:

What do you think is in Boeing's mind regarding the 757 replacement? A souped up MAX-9?

Airbus had a good middle range WB in the A310, trim some weight and hang some modern engines on it...could be a great TATL shuttle. It wont need more range than say 4500nm. It would soundly beat a 788 TATL  


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31439 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9452 times:
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Having just placed a 100-frame 737-900ER order for the initial tranche of 757-200s, I would expect the 737-9 has the inside track for the second tranche.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9279 times:

DL has said in various statements that the 739s are to replace 320s, 757s, and 767s.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8721 times:

Given that DL is very opportunistic when it comes to airframes, all we need is a sweet set of new motors for the 757. Because there isn't a 737 or 321 made, that can lift and range what a 757-200 can. Especially if you want to carry some 15K pounds (or better) of revenue cargo in the belly.


Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6651 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8720 times:

Quoting Yukon880 (Reply 8):
Given that DL is very opportunistic when it comes to airframes, all we need is a sweet set of new motors for the 757. Because there isn't a 737 or 321 made, that can lift and range what a 757-200 can. Especially if you want to carry some 15K pounds (or better) of revenue cargo in the belly.

Hmm, could a GEnx or Trent 1000 shrink work?

[Edited 2012-05-17 18:02:07]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1751 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8699 times:
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Quoting LHCVG (Reply 4):
Part of that I think will be dictated by Boeing's recently discussed possible new narrowbody/757 replacement (i.e., not just expanding and tweaking the 737MAX). That would be a game-changer

Actually Boeing did some clarifying following CEO McNerney's comments, which did make it sound like an all-new aircraft. The Boeing PR follow was McNerney was not speaking about an all-new sheet aircraft but unique opportunities to fill the gap with the MAX-9. One aviation writer sumized possible weight reduction and increased thrust special versions of the MAX-9 for Europe ETOPS. Purely speculative of course...but Boeing did spin down the original comments.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4009 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8491 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Having just placed a 100-frame 737-900ER order for the initial tranche of 757-200s

Doesn't mean anything. Look at American, they have now a rather large fleet of 738s and they have ordered 100 737-8s. On top of all that, they ordered A319s and A321s in large number. Before placing that order, everybody thought American would replace MD-80s in the long run only with NG737s and...look what happened.



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinerichiemo From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8422 times:

Well...let's hope we don't have to sweat this issue anytime soon. It will be a sad day when there are no 57s flying the skies, Delta or otherwise. Still, IMO, the most handsome plane in the sky.

User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2012 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 11):
Doesn't mean anything. Look at American, they have now a rather large fleet of 738s and they have ordered 100 737-8s. On top of all that, they ordered A319s and A321s in large number. Before placing that order, everybody thought American would replace MD-80s in the long run only with NG737s and...look what happened.

You cannot use the order of an airline about to file Chapter 11 that did file Chapter 11 as an example or a model to predict the behavior of financially sold carriers. TWA ordered A-318's and A-340's to replace DC-9's and L-1011's and 747's too.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8075 times:

A 739ER with fold able wing tips? Engines will be harder as it has such low ground clearance.

I think the A321 has a better chance of becoming a true 752 replacement, more lift, thrust and you´re there..3900nm, I would aim a bit higher as the 757 has trouble some flights.


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7842 times:
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Quoting milesrich (Reply 13):
You cannot use the order of an airline about to file Chapter 11 that did file Chapter 11 as an example or a model to predict the behavior of financially sold carriers. TWA ordered A-318's and A-340's to replace DC-9's and L-1011's and 747's too.

I thought they ordered the A330, not the 340



Made from jets!
User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 794 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7568 times:

DL has so many 757-200's that were ordered in different groups that they will slowly be replaced over the next 15-20 years also in little batches. The 739ER will do most of the work that the 752 does, but for that last 15% of flying that it simply isn't capable of one has to look at what type of role will it need. I see 3 requirements that currently push the 752 to near limits.

1. Must be able to fly DKR-JFK while full with a fair amount of cargo.
2. Must be able to fly MEX-JFK while full in the summer.
3. Must be able to fly JAC-ATL while full both summer and winter.

From what i've read, the 739ER can not do any of these nor does it appear that the 737-9 will be able to either.

727forever



727forever
User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7418 times:
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If the MAX is more fuel efficient, offering better savings, range, etc etc... why on earth would they order 100 old generation jets? Isn't that like saying we'll take the 747-300 over the 400...?


146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7162 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 17):

If the MAX is more fuel efficient, offering better savings, range, etc etc... why on earth would they order 100 old generation jets? Isn't that like saying we'll take the 747-300 over the 400...?

Because for Delta and with the way they calculate the business case, capital investment reduction (i.e. a low purchase price) is more important than flying the most fuel efficient plane in the sky.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1642 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 10):
Actually Boeing did some clarifying following CEO McNerney's comments, which did make it sound like an all-new aircraft. The Boeing PR follow was McNerney was not speaking about an all-new sheet aircraft but unique opportunities to fill the gap with the MAX-9. One aviation writer sumized possible weight reduction and increased thrust special versions of the MAX-9 for Europe ETOPS. Purely speculative of course...but Boeing did spin down the original comments.

I was not aware of that. Thanks for the follow up! What you describe there is what I figured is the best business case - a "737+" a la A350-1000 where it sacrifices some level of commonality with the rest of the line for that necessary performance to reach the top-right corner of the performance graph. Surely that is much more cost-effective than a true clean-sheet design.


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

Delta has a significant number of 757 delivered in the early 2000s, including the entire -300 fleet. These aircraft will be in the fleet for many, many years.


Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5140 times:

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 20):

{Checkmark}

Includes the higher numbered 6XX a/c and the newest PMDL 757s numbered 6XXX.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinealitis From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

Quoting 727forever (Reply 16):
DL has so many 757-200's that were ordered in different groups that they will slowly be replaced over the next 15-20 years also in little batches. The 739ER will do most of the work that the 752 does, but for that last 15% of flying that it simply isn't capable of one has to look at what type of role will it need. I see 3 requirements that currently push the 752 to near limits.

1. Must be able to fly DKR-JFK while full with a fair amount of cargo.
2. Must be able to fly MEX-JFK while full in the summer.
3. Must be able to fly JAC-ATL while full both summer and winter.

Dont forget EGE


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

IDK what the long term plan would be for STT but right now they can only use a 73G in place of the 757. That would be a huge reduction in seats considering DL has had ATL-STT at 3x daily during certain times of the year (2x 757, 1x 73G on Saturdays) and 2x 757 for pretty much most of the year.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1159 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4663 times:
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By the time Delta needs to replace it's late build 757-200s and 757-351s both Boeing and Airbus should have a suitable replacement aircraft ready to do the job.   


Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
25 B757forever : Agreed. There are 23 757-200 and 16 757-300 aircraft that were delivered in 2000 or later. The oldest ETOPS frames are all later 1990s builds, with t
26 FlyASAGuy2005 : Actually, the oldest ETOPS 752s are the 4 75Vs that run LAX-Hawaii. In fact, they are THE oldest 757s in the combined PMDL/PMNW fleet.
27 B757forever : That they are! The 75V aircraft (ships 6901-6904) are 757-212s originally delivered in Sept -Dec 1984. Ship 6818 is an April 1993 delivery.
28 SkyTeamTriStar : Totally agreed. I suppose DL can't wait for the 737 MAX to get launched?
29 B757forever : They do not have the time to wait for Max availability. DL has some mid 1980s deliverd 757 aircraft that need replacement very soon. The 737-900ER th
30 Post contains images Stitch : Compared to an MD-80 or a 1980's-vintage 757-200, a 737-900ER is likely a significant step-up in efficiency. Both Boeing and Airbus are going to need
31 strfyr51 : I'd LOVE to see boeing re-evaluate the 757 series with a new wider single aisle like 8-10"wider with new longer range capability to make MAD- IAD or F
32 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : The MAX does not jive with the fleet replacement plan in place at current. You're looking at 2017-2018 at a minimum if everything goes as planned and
33 laca773 : The A319s are going to fill a large gap in the AA fleet where the MD80s are going to be retired and the next a/c is the 738s which have too much capa
34 BDL757 : How quickly when the 739ers come will DL start to take A320s, 757s, and 767s out of service? Is DL looking to get rid of the domestic 767 fleet?
35 FlyASAGuy2005 : IDK what the pulldown actually looks like but 100 a/c in 4 years is a pretty aggressive schedule.
36 PSU.DTW.SCE : Aircraft will be retired as the reach the next heavy maintenance interval. Other aircraft in the fleet will move in and out of storage keep capacity
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