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US/AA Merger Affect On AS  
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 958 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6610 times:

As we all know, AS is the queen of partnerships. Some have put it less politely    but nevertheless they do seem to have a few very good friends...particularly DL and AA. With US management running the new US/AA I don't see the love continuing with AS. Consequently:

If US and AA actually do become one will this spell the end of the AA-AS 'special relationship'?

How might AS change as a result of this? Could we see new AS routes that were former code-shares? New service to JFK? Back to MIA? New routes and more service to ORD, DFW from all AS west coast major cities?

Or should AS actually be so bold as to put in a bid for AA? AW did the same with US and, other than labor issues, it seems to have worked out well for them. AS management is excellent and they'd have quite the network.

Keep the AS name as a true regional out of only ANC and then join the rest of AS to AA's network. Keep the AA name and do a brand refreshening. Keep Eagle, Horizon, the AS brand in Alaska and you have AAG not standing for Alaska Air Group but American Air Group. You'd have to say adios to DL but there'd no longer be the need or the point.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

I don't see why the relationships with DL and a combined AA/US wouldn't continue. After all, DL's SLC hub is more of a market overlap with SEA/PDX than the PHX hub of US.

I definitely don't see AS making a bid for AA, they can let US deal with that scenario and keep the benefits of an expanded partnership.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6467 times:

Not much would need to change if you ask me. If anything, it could be a plus for AS as it would give them additional feed into SEA.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6249 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
With US management running the new US/AA I don't see the love continuing with AS. Consequently:

If US and AA actually do become one will this spell the end of the AA-AS 'special relationship'?

US management isn't dumb - the chance for real feed up and down the West Coast isn't something to pass up.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6249 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 2):

That would only happen if US/AA retained their marketing agreement with AS.


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 958 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6207 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 4):
That would only happen if US/AA retained their marketing agreement with AS.

That's the big question here...AW and AS were always competitors and never worked together in any capacity. Same with the current US. There's absolutely no history of cooperation between them so to assume the current arrangement would continue might be unrealistic.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6177 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 3):
US management isn't dumb - the chance for real feed up and down the West Coast isn't something to pass up.

US's management was dumb enough last time they had routes up and down the west coast.  

Thankfully, AS's management isn't that dumb to sell out to a big guy and then immediately get gutted out.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
Some have put it less politely

Yeah, the word starts with a W.

The real question is which alliance would a combined AA+US be in? If it's OW then the partnership would probably continue. AS has warm relationships (the "w" word again) with several OW partners. However, thus far they have had nothing to do with Star Alliance. The CO partnership ended soon after CO jumped ship from SkyTeam. One can speculate that UA would be strongly opposed to any star alliance member having a partnership with AS.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11635 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6102 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
There's absolutely no history of cooperation between them so to assume the current arrangement would continue might be unrealistic.

Delta had scant relations with Alaska pre-merger. Look at them now ...

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
The real question is which alliance would a combined AA+US be in?

There is no question. It would be oneworld.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6054 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Delta had scant relations with Alaska pre-merger. Look at them now ...

Actually, that's not true. DL signed a frequent flier and code share agreement with AS several years before the NW+DL merger was ever conceived. Admittedly, the fact that NW and AS also had a strong partnership did strengthen the DL partnership post-merger, but it's very incorrect that pre-merger DL had scant relations with AS.

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
There is no question. It would be oneworld.

That would be my personal preference also, but on what basis do you say that?


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):

That would be my personal preference also, but on what basis do you say that?

Well, two airlines in Star with none in Oneworld would probably be frowned upon by the DOT... or DOJ, I don't remember which one it was that approves codeshares and stuff.

And on an AS/AA/US related note, unless the new AA plans on making a large expansion in the northwest after the merger, I think they need to keep the relationship with AS, despite the fact that AS and US have never worked together



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
US's management was dumb enough last time they had routes up and down the west coast.

And that was how long ago? It wasn't the same airline then.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
That would be my personal preference also, but on what basis do you say that?

It would be the equivalent of allowing AA and UA to merge. Allowing AA(ATI with BA) and UA(ATI with LH) to exist in one alliance is too much market concentration. The same can be said with DL and AF. Oneworld is simply the only alliance AA/US can be in.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
With US management running the new US/AA I don't see the love continuing with AS.
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
There's absolutely no history of cooperation between them so to assume the current arrangement would continue might be unrealistic.

US' management history is irrelevant. The needs of AA is what will take priority. The AA-AS partnership will definitely continue.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
Or should AS actually be so bold as to put in a bid for AA?

Absolutely won't happen. AS mgmt has never had the appetite for consolidation.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinetsugambler From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

You speak as if it's a done deal...

Not gonna happen.


User currently offlineBoeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5632 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
US's management was dumb enough last time they had routes up and down the west coast.

Well, this was the old US. Pre-Merger/Pre-HP but ever since HP they have become a rather smart company who will be able to make it through this merger successfully.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11635 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
Actually, that's not true.

It is true. I said "scant," not "no." Delta did establish a bilateral relationship with Alaska before the Northwest merger, but it was not nearly as deep as what occurred post-merger, when Delta inherented Northwest's long-standing and closely-integrated relationship with Alaska.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
That would be my personal preference also, but on what basis do you say that?
Here.

"First and foremost, the combined carrier will be branded American Airlines, based in Fort Worth Texas and headquartered at CentrePort. It will be comparable in size and scope to Delta and United, with a robust domestic network capable of supporting significant international expansion. American Airlines' relationship with oneworld will be maintained and strengthened."

... but we didn't really even need anyone to tell us that, did we? It was sort of obvious. USAirways is already a marginalized player in Star, and there was widespread, open speculation that USAirways might switch to oneworld even before any of this merger stuff happened. There is no way the "new American" - if it ever came about - would ever be in the same alliance as United.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5434 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Scary subject 'Flyer. I of course don't know what AS's current plans are for the next year or two but there are a few things that I'm hoping are included in them. And in the very fragile world of the airline industry we all know how one event can shake up a lot of things in a lot of different places. It's possible -- no, probable -- that a merger or a takeover or whatever it ends up being, involving AA, will inevitably change some things at AS. How quickly, how deeply or how permanently is anybody's guess but there would be changes. Like I said, scary subject...

bb


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 958 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5389 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
It's possible -- no, probable -- that a merger or a takeover or whatever it ends up being, involving AA, will inevitably change some things at AS.

In some ways cutting the ties to AA could end up being a positive for AS. They're much less shy about adding new destinations as they used to be and there are so many opportunities to connect existing east-west markets. With lots of new metal coming starting this fall I can see them connecting lots of dots that aren't currently connected. And with the so much Hawaii flying out of nearly all major West Coast cities but LA and SFO there'd be great connection opportunities to the islands from BOS, DCA, EWR, FLL, MCO, PHL. AS will probably just go on with what they've been doing...alliance with AA or not.


User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5358 times:

Quoting tsugambler (Reply 12):

Why ? Because you say so?? So tired of some of you predicting what's gonna happen when you have no control of anything ..


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13602 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5124 times:
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Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
If US and AA actually do become one will this spell the end of the AA-AS 'special relationship'?

Doubtful. While I certainly don't claim to speak for AS on this one, I'd imagine their senior leadership is thinking (to paraphrase a quote from one of the last episodes of The Sopranos) "we'll just do business with whatever's left."



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5049 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 4):
That would only happen if US/AA retained their marketing agreement with AS.

Which I fully expect would happen, short of a DL takeover of AS. Just my opinion.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
That's the big question here...AW and AS were always competitors and never worked together in any capacity. Same with the current US. There's absolutely no history of cooperation between them so to assume the current arrangement would continue might be unrealistic.

I personally think the past is irrelevant in most of the current merger/codeshare minglings going on. US, as in Parker, was looking at DL a few years ago. In that deal, they would have become "Delta". In any deal with AA, they would become "AA". I basically would see it as no different than what is going on now, with the exception that "AA" would now also have flights to SEA from PHL, CLT, and PHX.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6474 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
US's management was dumb enough last time they had routes up and down the west coast.

NW,UA,CO,and DL all had good size operations up and down the west coast at one time or another, and let them go.
Was the management of those airlines also dumb? I would say they were smart not to go up and down the west coast vs Southwest


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13602 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3925 times:
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Quoting bobnwa (Reply 20):
NW,UA,CO,and DL all had good size operations up and down the west coast at one time or another, and let them go.

Well, two out of four ain't bad.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinecjpmaestro From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

I can only see a combined US/AA as a plus to the code share agreements with AS, particularly through the West US where the majority of AS fliers are, and via PHX. This opens up more feed through both PHX and SEA/PDX (and between AS and US there are plenty of flight options between the three cities). Passengers from and traveling through PHX will get major options to Alaska and the Northwest/Montana/Idaho and AS passengers will have easy connections to cities like ABQ, ELP, SAT, DSM, OMA, SJO. There will also be more options to Mexico, Hawaii and California. Having lived in SEA for 5 years, I'd much rather travel through PHX than SFO, DEN, DFW, ORD or MSP. Minimal delays and hardly any cancellations. This also doesn't even scratch the surface of options out of PHL (where AS now flies) which opens up the Northeast and Europe on top of what already exists with AA. The only thing keeping me from saying the US/AA tie-up would benefit AS more than Delta are the International options out of SEA via Delta. Though, if the partnership of US/AA and AS really proved fruitful, the combined carrier may consider some Asian and other international destinations out of SEA.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3076 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 20):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
US's management was dumb enough last time they had routes up and down the west coast.

NW,UA,CO,and DL all had good size operations up and down the west coast at one time or another, and let them go.
Was the management of those airlines also dumb? I would say they were smart not to go up and down the west coast vs Southwest

I was referring to the PSA disaster. I'm still angry about that 24 years later. US buys out PSA and then says, "Oh geez, we weren't smart enough to realize these routes wouldn't work in our cost structure" and proceeds to complete gut every last remnant of the first iconic LCC.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2795 times:
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Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):

The same goes for AA for taking over both OC and QQ and gutting their existence.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 8
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2735 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
I was referring to the PSA disaster. I'm still angry about that 24 years later. US buys out PSA and then says, "Oh geez, we weren't smart enough to realize these routes wouldn't work in our cost structure" and proceeds to complete gut every last remnant of the first iconic LCC.

If any legacy airline felt the west coast network would work in their cost structure, you'd see more of them flying their own metal in the region as opposed to simply codesharing with AS.

Again, this was 24 years ago; ancient history in the airline world. At risk of sounding callous, get over it. It's not the same airline. Very, very few of the same people are even working for the airline who were there that long ago.


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