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Crossing The Atlantic From LHR  
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 892 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13850 times:

Intrigued by the UA at LHR thread I thought I'd do a bit of digging to see just how much traffic there is across the Atlantic on a typical day from LHR and which destinations are served. Having done my digging I thought I'd share the key figures just in case anyone else is interested.

Taking Friday 25th May as my typical day and the BAA LHR website it appears [subject to me getting it wrong]:

- there are 124 non-stop flights from LHR to the Americas/Caribbean of which 100 are to the USA.
- LHR serves 21 destinations in the USA; 8 in Canada and collectively only 5 in the rest of the Americas
- South of Mexico the only countries with a direct service to LHR are Brazil and Argentina.
- BA have 39 of the daily flights to the USA followed by UA with 19; AA 18 and VS 12
- Outside the USA AC have 11 flights to 8 destinations; BA 11 flights to 9 destinations and JJ 2 flights to 2 destinations.
- There are 10 carriers crossing the Atlantic - the only non UK /USA carriers being AC;TAM; NZ and KU.
- BA serve 18 destinations in the US followed by VS at 8;AA at 7; UA 6; DL 5 and US 2. NZ serves LAX.
- Of the 124 flights One world have 68; Star Alliance 34; Skyteam 9; and non allied airlines 13
- Most popular destinations; JFK 19;ORD 10; EWR10; LAX 10; and BOS 9.

What this tells us I am not sure   but in my view it

a) questions the accepted assumption that LHR is a BA fortress when it comes to the Americas at least
b)the route planners really should look at their atlases and see what countries and opportunities exist south of Mexico.

I was hoping I could have done a summary of the aeroplane types that shuttle back and forth - does anyone know of a good website where that information can be found.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3322 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13740 times:

I have it on a spreadsheet, it's more manageable. It's ~ 128 transatlantic flights per day on summer 2011 numbers, I will dig out the details later  

[Edited 2012-05-21 10:01:29]

User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13692 times:

AA will have 19 daily flights from LHR this summer as follows:

JFK- 5x 772
ORD- 3x 772, 1x 763
DFW- 3x 772, 1x763
BOS- 3x 752
LAX- 1x 772
MIA- 1x 772
RDU- 1x 763

I think UA has 17 flights-

EWR- 1x 772, 4x 752
ORD- 3x 763
LAX- 1x 772
SFO- 2x 772
IAH- 2x 772
IAD- 2x 772, 2x 763

[Edited 2012-05-21 10:07:36]

User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1827 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13603 times:

There is some more info about destinations and airlines available here, but not frequencies:

http://www.traveleligible.com/a-litt...anning-on-heading-to-the-olympics/


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13523 times:

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 2):
ORD- 3x 772, 1x 763

As far as I can tell there are only 3 AA flights- -least ways on my random date.


User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13482 times:

Maybe it was a holiday weekend reduction, but AA flies a 763 from ORD in the morning, and there 3 772s in the evening, it's been our summer schedule for several years now.

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2242 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13197 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 4):
As far as I can tell there are only 3 AA flights- -least ways on my random date.

Nope, AA indeed has four daily fights from ORD to LHR:

AA 90 763 0900 ORD 2245 LHR D
AA 86 772 1805 ORD 0750 (+1) LHR D
AA 46 772 1915 ORD 0905 (+1) LHR D
AA 98 772 2145 ORD 1125 (+1) LHR D

Interesting how AA is the only one that operates the day flight. I am aware UA offers a day flight that operates direct via IAD, I believe.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1445 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13106 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Thread starter):
What this tells us

What it tells me is that SkyTeam has a huge challenge here.
They don't have to become OneWorld but they certainly can be more than they are now...



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7742 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12676 times:

Nothing wrong with the analysis. But before drawing conclusions from it is worth remembering that IAG owns BA and IB.

In a presentation to investors in May 2010 then BA CEO, Willie Walsh (now IAG CEO) claimed that:

IAG had a 13 per cent share of the Europe to USA market

IAG had a 19 per cent share of the Europe to Latin America market

See Chart 53 here:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_.../01_ID_2010_Full_presentations.pdf

From these figures you might conclude that the focus should be on taking share in the Europe to USA market. But then Europe is not just LHR and IAG is not just BA.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11109 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 7):
What it tells me is that SkyTeam has a huge challenge here.

Correct, but in the largest US markets (NYC, ORD, LA, BOS), SkyTeam is only a minor player in terms of ff base when it comes to capture the most lucrative o&d traffic, as DL's competitors all run the bigger operations than DL in these cities (NYC may have a larger SkyTeam ff base, but DL's hub is still dwarfed is AA's and UA's). In LHR, there are no SkyTeam connections either, something which AA can solidly rely upon when flying from minor hubs such as RDU, and from any major hub too.
Arguably, non-stop DL service to LAX and MIA could be a plus. Not sure what else. IAD, IAH, ORD also are big markets but they are UA's best kept fortresses...
Point is, one wants to fly to LHR with DL form any minor city with no non-stop service, one can, and offer is comparable to UA and AA (or BA).
Also, with 100% 767-400 service, DL only sends its most modern equipment (cabin-wise) to LHR, proof that it must be a market that makes some $$$ despite a smaller offer than the competition's... (before someone asks, summer is 3x 764 JFK & ATL, 1x 764 DTW, MSP and BOS)



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineDrColenzo From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2012, 144 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 9263 times:

I have a question with my economics professor hat on.

What is the daily seat capacity between the LHR and the Americas? Using the daily flight data for American and United, I have done the following table:


American
Type Seats Frequency Daily Capacity
777 243 13 3159
767 225 3 675
757 176 3 528
Total 4362



United
Type Seats Frequency
777 269 8 2152
767 183 5 915
757 169 4 676
Total 3743


I wonder if we included Virgin, BA, Delta et al what the figure would be? Even on their own, however, American and United have a daily capacity equivalent to 3.79 the capacity of the Queen Mary, which took around 4-ish days to cross the Atlantic! Put another way, this demonstrates the interconnectedness of the UK and US economies as even with population growth since the 1940s, there is a huge two way traffic between the two nations.

I am currently getting ready to monitor an exam and cannot keep down the path of nerdery until lunch; does anyone have the plane types, frequencies for the other flights from Heathrow to the Americas to hand?


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 8183 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Thread starter):
b)the route planners really should look at their atlases and see what countries and opportunities exist south of Mexico.

In BA's case, although it does not service much of Latin America, it relies on IB to carry most of the traffic to MAD (both being part of IAG). With LHR so slot controlled I believe growth for BA will come from Asia instead of Latin America.


User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 7826 times:

I did a similar analysis last year and it's worth adding in LGW, MAN, GLA, EDI and others such as does CO/UA still fly to Birmingham) to get the full picture of flying across the Atlantic.. Adding LGW for example and you have a host of Caribbean destinations to add when thinking about routes and destinations.

As for VS, depending on the day your numbers go higher from LHR to 13 daily flights (will be 14 in October when the VS25 returns):

VS 3 / 9 / 45 to JKF
VS1 / 18 to EWR
VS 5 to MIA
VS 7 / 23 to LAX
VS 11 to BOS
VS 19 / 41 to SFO - the 41 alternating with the VS 95 to YYV
VS 21 to IAD
VS 39 to ORD

Then there's the flights to LAS from LGW and MAN, and MCO from LGW, MAN, and GLA.

Overall VS has 17 transatlantic destinations.


User currently offlineimag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 7661 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Thread starter):
What this tells us I am not sure but in my view it

a) questions the accepted assumption that LHR is a BA fortress when it comes to the Americas at least

But look at the equipment that BA throw at the Americas. How many other airlines have regular 744 service?


User currently offlinebongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

Any chances BA returning to BOG?


MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7742 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2841 times:

Quoting DrColenzo (Reply 10):
What is the daily seat capacity between the LHR and the Americas?

You will find a pretty cpmprehensive analysis of all trans-Atlantic operations for Winter 2011-12 here:

http://www.msmaviation.com/publicdocs/Transat_Winter_2011_2012.pdf


User currently offlineDrColenzo From UK - Scotland, joined Jan 2012, 144 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

Cool, I will have a look at the report with calculator in one hand and a pen in the other  

User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Quoting imag (Reply 13):
But look at the equipment that BA throw at the Americas. How many other airlines have regular 744 service?

Agreed - BA has roughly 20 744 flights a day to the US. But this in itself does not make LHR a BA fortress - for example UA has 5 flights a day from EWR to LHR operated primarily [if not exclusively] by 757s]. If UA really wanted to ramp up the competition with BA [ who manage 2 777 and 1 767 a day to EWR] they don't have to plead for more slots, they could for example use 777s instead and save a couple of slots at LHR for other US cities.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7742 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 17):
Agreed - BA has roughly 20 744 flights a day to the US.

I think it is actually 21 excepting Wednesdays:

BOS: 2 - BA213 and BA215
DFW: 1 - BA193
IAD: 1 - BA217
JFK: 7 - BA113, BA115, BA117, BA173, BA175, BA177 and BA183
LAS: 1 - BA275
LAX: 2 - BA269 and BA283
MIA: 2 - BA207 and BA209
ORD: 1 - BA297
PHX: 1 - BA289
SEA: 1 - BA049
SFO: 2 - BA285 and BA287

In addition BA also operates another 18 daily flights to the USA on either 77Ws, 772s or 763s:

ATL: 1 x 772 - BA227
BOS: 1 x 772 - BA239
EWR: 2 x 772 - BA185 and BA189. 1 x 763 - BA185
IAD: 1 x 772 - BA293. 1 X 763 - BA265
IAH: 2 x 772 - BA195 and BA197
JFK: 1 x 77W - BA179
LAX: 1 x 772
MCO: 1 x 772 - BA2037 (from LGW)
MIA: 1 x 772 - BA205
ORD: 1 x 772 - BA295
PHL: 1 x 772 - BA067. 1 x 763 - BA069
TPA: 1 x 772 - BA2167 (from LGW)
SAN: 1 X 772 - BA273


User currently offlineArgonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):
In addition BA also operates another 18 daily flights to the USA on either 77Ws, 772s or 763s

Add BWI 1 x 763 BA229

rj



'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
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