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Jet Airways May Order 100 A320NEO´s  
User currently offlinesolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 849 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14057 times:

Great news!

MUMBAI (Dow Jones)--Jet Airways (India) Ltd. (532617.BY) may order up to 100 Airbus planes as early as this year to partly replace its old aircraft and to strengthen its fleet in a market where some of its rivals are fast shrinking in size, according to a top airline consultant.

In its latest report on India's airlines, Sydney-based Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation said Jet is evaluating the purchase of Airbus A320 neo planes. The order will likely cost more than $3.75 billion at list price, said the


[Edited 2012-05-23 10:20:50]

[Edited 2012-05-23 10:21:39]

[Edited 2012-05-23 10:22:40]


Airbus SAS - Love them both
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecipango From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 569 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14075 times:

Im quite surprised at the number of aircraft they plan to order, but I do think the A320NEO will fit their network quite well.


Next Flights: DUB-OSL-DUB, DUB-KEF-DUB, DUB-DXB-MEL-DXB-DUB, DUB-MAN-DME-MAN-DUB
User currently offlinesolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14016 times:

Couldn´t copy the paper WSJ into this topic....sorry ´bout that.

//Mike   



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinesolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13968 times:

How many NEO´s have IndiGo on order?

Cheers

Mike//   



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13915 times:
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Here you go:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...airways-capa-idUSBRE84M0AS20120523

Quote:
Jet Airways (JET.NS) is expected to order more than 100 narrow-body aircraft for up to $3.75 billion in 2012/13 as the largest Indian carrier grabs market share from its troubled rivals, a leading consultancy said.

Without getting too excited, there's are a lot of "likely", "may" and "expected" in the report.

Given their large 737NG fleet, it would be somewhat surprising if they weren't at least looking at the MAX as well.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13894 times:

Im thinking that they would look at the MAX more than they would the A320. Whats the earliest slot available for a NEO?

User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 802 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13894 times:

Folk in my company are moving away from Jet over concerns about its longevity, so this, if true, represents quite a shot in the arm. India remains low cost competitive, does Jet have the structure, and the growth potential for this?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30415 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13884 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
Given their large 737NG fleet, it would be somewhat surprising if they weren't at least looking at the MAX as well.

Wikipedia notes a good part of their 737NG fleet is leased. As such, switching OEMs for their next generation narrowbodies likely would not be too much of a hardship. And should this new fleet also be leased, that could impact which family is chosen based on terms and availability.

[Edited 2012-05-23 10:59:11]

User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13847 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Wikipedia notes a good part of their 737NG fleet is leased.

Boeing shows Jet as having purchased 67 737s directly, but I guess they could have sold and leased back any number of those.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30415 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13758 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 8):
Boeing shows Jet as having purchased 67 737s directly, but I guess they could have sold and leased back any number of those.

I cross-checked with Airfleets and it shows 17 of 60 leased, whereas Wiki shows 42 of 58 leased.

Wiki also shows most of their A330-200s leased, yet Airfleets doesn't show any as being leased and according to a 9W press release from 28 May 2008 on the delivery of their 7th states they are all direct-buys from Airbus.

So Wiki is wrong again, I guess.  


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4673 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13599 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
So Wiki is wrong again, I guess.  

The best information can be found here on A-net!  .

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
Here you go:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...20523

A lot of uncertainties still in the article. It could easily also go Boeing's way. Though I do favor the NEO a bit more myself.  .


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5439 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13523 times:

Wow, that'd be a big order. Certainly a hit to the MAX if true. The big orders just keep rolling in for the OEM's.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9940 posts, RR: 96
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13467 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 11):
Wow, that'd be a big order. Certainly a hit to the MAX if true. The big orders just keep rolling in for the OEM's.

Hey, and if and when it happens, we get to have another great debate about the merits or otherwise of the discount offered...         

rgds


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5439 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13439 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 12):
Hey, and if and when it happens, we get to have another great debate about the merits or otherwise of the discount offered...

rgds

Let's hope they keep the discount to themselves.  

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12281 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13351 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Wiki also shows most of their A330-200s leased, yet Airfleets doesn't show any as being leased and according to a 9W press release from 28 May 2008 on the delivery of their 7th states they are all direct-buys from Airbus.

More confusion about Jet! Airbus shows 15 A330s ordered directly, of which ten have been delivered (through April). But the same sheet also shows them as operating 12, so it seems they have at least two leased birds.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 12):
we get to have another great debate about the merits or otherwise of the discount offered...

Well I'm fully expecting Airbus to trump Boeing's 65% discount!     



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5439 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13322 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
Well I'm fully expecting Airbus to trump Boeing's 65% discount!

It was 64%!!!!  

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13271 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 12):
Hey, and if and when it happens, we get to have another great debate about the merits or otherwise of the discount offered...        

Too late!

Quote:

"In my estimate, at the current price and without taking into account the list price, the actual price for the order could be $3.5 billion to $3.75 billion," Kapil Kaul, regional head of CAPA, told Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...airways-capa-idUSBRE84M0AS20120523

They have already factored in the discount... So that would be about a 62-64% off list  



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 13134 times:

Quoting mffoda (Reply 16):
They have already factored in the discount... So that would be about a 62-64% off list  

But, of course, in this case the large discount would be fully justified in order to steal a current 737 costumer from Boeing. Whereas in the case of Boeing and WN...   



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User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5439 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12900 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 12):
Hey, and if and when it happens, we get to have another great debate about the merits or otherwise of the discount offered...

Well, looks like you got the ball rolling.......  

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11915 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
Given their large 737NG fleet, it would be somewhat surprising if they weren't at least looking at the MAX as well.

I'm not surprised their expansion comes in wake of AI and KF being in the doldrums.... But switching to A320s for their next lot of narrow-bodies wasn't what I expected; I thought they'd stick to Boeing, maybe ordering the 737Max.
Maybe as the A320Neos arrive, they would slowly phase out their 737 fleet.


Regarding the lease of more A330s, looks like they are betting big with expanding their A330 fleet for overseas ops. Personally I think it is the best widebody for India's international aviation market.

But isn't this mix of both Boeing and Airbus widebodies and narrowbodies a little too much for 9W?

Any chance they'll order A321s or will they just be 320 Neos?



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9940 posts, RR: 96
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11796 times:
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Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 18):
Well, looks like you got the ball rolling.......

Yeah. On reflection wasn't the best idea I've ever had.....

Rgds


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5439 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11533 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 22):
Yeah. On reflection wasn't the best idea I've ever had.....

Ha ha.....surprised I wasn't the one causing problems. I seem to step in it often enough around here.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11186 times:

Almost all of the major domestic routes in India are less than 1,000nm, with a range of 450 to 950 nm. The average sector length is probably closer to 600 nm, a range at which I expect A320NEO and B737-8 Max to have similar fuel burn per seat.

The A320NEO is expected to have 6% less capacity than B737-8, and this might be one factor for Jet to take into account due to increasing congestion at Indian airports.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9940 posts, RR: 96
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10970 times:
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Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 22):
The A320NEO is expected to have 6% less capacity than B737-8, and this might be one factor for Jet to take into account due to increasing congestion at Indian airports.

Sounds like perfect territory for an A321NEO then, perhaps?  

Rgds


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10828 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 23):
Sounds like perfect territory for an A321NEO then, perhaps?

For some reason Jet has only 2 739s and none on order. It has 45 B738s with 27 more on order.

I am surprised that none of the Indian carriers have tried to use B739 or A321 extensively to undercut the competition. It has been suggested that Indigo is considering switching some of the A320NEO order to A321NEO.


25 15a : If these come, they could be headed for the New JetKonnect brand (which currently uses aircraft under both 9W and S2 Operating permits) - these could
26 jporterfi : Wouldn't a Boeing 739 also fit this purpose? That is if 9W doesn't want to wait for the 737 MAX 9s. I would think that they would want to stick with
27 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Perhaps, but they appear to be heading towards the NEO. I'm not sure that the wait is much different overall. There are a number of reasons that migh
28 gr8circle : Why would it be "too much"? There are so many airlines around the world with such a mix.....what's different for 9W?
29 JOYA380B747 : No I meant with high operating/maintenance costs and every problem the country is facing, it would be easier to maintain sole 737 or A320 fleets I gu
30 zkojq : Off topic, but that must certainly be in copyright violation of Qantas' New Zealand operation which is named JetConnect.
31 jfk777 : Why NOT a 737 MAX order ? A320 neo is not the BMW M5 of the skies.
32 HAWK21M : 9w was considering A320s a year back. Wonder if Increasing the stores Inventory with Two similiar ranged aircraft makes sense.
33 BlueSky1976 : Why NOT a A320NEO? Apparently it seems to be superior aircraft for 9W, when compared to 737 MAX. BMWs suck, BTW. Audi owns them all. And A320NEO is A
34 aeroblogger : By which metric?
35 BlueSky1976 : Total cost of ownership? CASM? Fuel burn? Price? Some other arrangement? I don't know. Jet Airways is buying them, not me. They're the ones that shou
36 aeroblogger : I would ask 9W if they had suggested that the A320neo is superior for them. However, they did not suggest this - you suggested this, so I'm asking yo
37 BlueSky1976 : If it wasn't superior, 9W would buy MAX. Instead, they want to buy NEO. So for 9W, NEO is superior to MAX. Just as MAX was superior to NEO for UA. Sim
38 aeroblogger : When did they say that they want to buy the NEO? That's news to me.
39 gr8circle : That logic doesn't sound right.....quite often, a decision is made based on other criteria when the two choices available are so closely comparable..
40 Post contains images lightsaber : Oh, they had better go for 64%+! Because we all know that is the only way planes sell. Being serious, I would be surprised if 9W didn't look into Air
41 Post contains links rheinwaldner : According to this new article, Jet Airways would get early NEO slots: http://www.travelbizmonitor.com/jet-...along-with-initial-customers-16550 From
42 columba : Jetairways might no want become dependant on one manufacturer they have the 77W and I believe 787 on order. The A330 will likely go as soon as the 787
43 scbriml : Given they still have five A330s to be delivered, I think they'll be in the fleet for a good while yet.
44 something : Could the notorious pilot shortage be a factor in this? As most operators ''in the region'' (India, South East Asia and the Gulf) are A320 operators,
45 aeroblogger : There is a surplus of both A320 and 737 pilots in India right now. The availability of pilots is not likely to be a concern.
46 Post contains links anfromme : By now there have been numerous reports stating that Boeing underbid Airbus in the DL RFP by about 10%, and also won UA chiefly on price (sample sour
47 something : If an airplane is vastly superior to another, like the 77W to the A346, then that's selling point enough. But this is unprecendented. 200 to Air Asia
48 Post contains images scbriml : They would. Even if the neo was significantly better than MAX, Airbus couldn't meet demand if everyone wanted neo instead of MAX. The (allegedly infe
49 lightsaber : But the 737 has a weight advantage. In effect it is being optimized for a shorter mission. If the MAX were a dog, with the C-series and increased pro
50 art : Is that right - $37.5+ million list price for A320NEO? With a steep discount that would drop to less than $20 million per a/c. Or are engines not inc
51 Stitch : An A320-200neo lists for $97 million. $37.5 million is probably the sales contract price.
52 rheinwaldner : True, I have argued several times that there is sufficient time to adjust the NEO production rate to any warranted size. This is my usual response to
53 Post contains images Stitch : On the flip side, as Boeing's NB business is more lucrative (on a margin basis) than Airbus', one could say that they can "afford" to lower prices to
54 flipdewaf : Sorry Stitch, not trying to sound like a fanboy here but where does that come from? how do we know the margins? Thanks, Fred
55 Stitch : Review of financial analysis of both companies for the past decade or so. Airbus is going to be naturally bullish on their prospects, just as Boeing
56 cmf : What amounts have you used for deferred production cost each year?
57 Stitch : I don't do my own analysis. I read analysis performed by major financial institutions (banks, investment houses, etc.) Frankly, as an investor in bot
58 Post contains links mffoda : As Stitch said, you can look at the companies annual reports. They are available on their websites. Even Tom Enders will tell you as much.... Quote:
59 cmf : Anything you can share? I have spent a fair amount of time looking at both companies annual reports and I have to say that they are extremely careful
60 astuteman : I'm on your side here. This isn't safe territory really. The whole thing is a can of worms best left unopened. The A320 has virtually carried Airbus
61 Post contains images Stitch : And to those who have fixated on pricing - maybe, just maybe, Boeing can still make money on the MAX even with huge percentage discounts off list by
62 Post contains images cmf : I've been told I like to look for worms Often the story of the numbers are much more telling than the numbers. And this is not a complaint about any
63 Post contains images astuteman : Like making them in large quantities The MAX is going to make Boeing a lot of money Rgds
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